Saga Fights For Long-Lost Three-Letter Call Sign In Des Moines

[davideduardo]

This broadcaster wants KSO back after many years with a 4-letter call sign. A change in policy would be required to allow this.

Saga Fights For Long-Lost Three-Letter Call Sign In Des Moines.

As it closes in on its 100th anniversary, Saga Communications is fighting to return a set of long ago call letters to what is currently sports-formatted KRNT Des Moines (1350).

www.insideradio.com

 

[Kelly A]

As I recall, other station/ownership over the years have tried this and failed. Suspect the saga will be the same here.

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[davideduardo]

As I recall, other station/ownership over the years have tried this and failed. Suspect the saga will be the same here.

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KKHJ in Los Angeles succeeded with a ruse... so there is precedent.

 

[lanceventa]

KKHJ in Los Angeles succeeded with a ruse... so there is precedent.

The current precedent thanks to KHJ is that if the station license was last to hold the calls they would retain it. So in theory 1050 New York could stand a chance at becoming WHN again.

But this situation is much, much, much more convoluted. The KSO call letters were in use on what is now 1460 KXNO until 1989. The licenses for what are now KRNT and KXNO were co-owned in the 30s and 40s prior to the duopoly rule being put into effect and at one point there was a frequency swap between the licenses in the 30s. KRNT may be where the KSO call originated, but they were not the longtime holders nor the last holder of the calls. if anyone in Des Moines would be able to become KSO again, it would be 1460 KXNO and not KRNT.

 

[ngriffin]

There might be a regulatory case for it, but why? There is hardly a person alive who might remember KSO on that original facility. Saga already has a callsign at 1350 with a great history, KRNT, but brands it as "ESPN Des Moines." Saying KSO once an hour won't change anything. Better to remember KSO for its rock and roll heyday in the 60s and "Great Country" in the 70s and 80s.

 

[Kelly A]

There might be a regulatory case for it, but why? There is hardly a person alive who might remember KSO on that original facility. Saga already has a callsign at 1350 with a great history, KRNT, but brands it as "ESPN Des Moines." Saying KSO once an hour won't change anything. Better to remember KSO for its rock and roll heyday in the 60s and "Great Country" in the 70s and 80s.

This. I think there's been a clear case made over the years that call letters don't make or break a brand, programming does.

 

[Cordelia Chase]

In 1983, the call letters of both WGH AM and FM in Norfolk, Virginia were changed to WNSY. The format of 1310 was flipped from AC to oldies and the format of 97.3 was flipped from Classical to soft AC. (The call letter and format changes occurred at the same time IIRC.) I think there was a bit of a struggle with the FCC, but new owners were able to get the three-letter calls back about three years later.

 

[davideduardo]

The current precedent thanks to KHJ is that if the station license was last to hold the calls they would retain it. So in theory 1050 New York could stand a chance at becoming WHN again.

But in the case of KHJ, it was Beasley who changed the calls, and then sold the station as KRTH (AM) to Liberman. Liberman petitioned that the calls they themselves had requested, "KKHJ", were offensive in Spanish since "KK" is pronounces as "Caca" which means "excrement."

Instead of telling the licensee that they should not have picked those calls to begin with, the FCC allowed the three-letter version to come back.

Of course, the station never pronounce the call letters in Spanish... they only used them for the legal ID and then they said the calls in English as Kay-Kay-Ach-Jay.

 

[kevtronics]

It's ironic they care so much about long-dead call letters, but care so little about them on HD Radio's station ID field. According to it, WLTW's call letters are now "LITE"; WNYL is now "ALT-FM"; and WUMR's call letters are now "Rumba" (yes, five letters, including lowercase, which I didn't know the call sign field was even capable of!).

 

[davideduardo]

It's ironic they care so much about long-dead call letters, but care so little about them on HD Radio's station ID field. According to it, WLTW's call letters are now "LITE"; WNYL is now "ALT-FM"; and WUMR's call letters are now "Rumba" (yes, five letters, including lowercase, which I didn't know the call sign field was even capable of!).

If a station chooses to use the call letters as its name, then calls are important.

WOR and WABC use calls, and that is their identity. Same with WGN or KFI and lots of traditional stations.

But stations that use names that have no relationship to the calls don't depend on call letters for identity. If Saga is pushing to get back the KSO calls, I presume they want to use them as their "name".

 

[lanceventa]

But in the case of KHJ, it was Beasley who changed the calls, and then sold the station as KRTH (AM) to Liberman. Liberman petitioned that the calls they themselves had requested, "KKHJ", were offensive in Spanish since "KK" is pronounces as "Caca" which means "excrement."

Instead of telling the licensee that they should not have picked those calls to begin with, they allowed the three-letter version to come back.

Of course, the station never pronounce the call letters in Spanish... they only used them for the legal ID and then they said the calls in English as Kay-Kay-Ach-Jay.

The license changing hands doesn't matter as long as it is the actual license that held them.

Here's a scenario that would be identical to Des Moines. 1130 WBBR New York's license was originally WOV. In 1941, the licenses of WOV and then 1250 WNEW were exchanged for one another with the WOV calls remaining until becoming WADO in 1959. Saga's request for KRNT would be identical to Bloomberg requesting WOV for WBBR now. Technically on Univision's WADO would have the ability to do so.

 

[Negin]

I think it's time for the FCC to allow stations to use 3 letter calls if they chose.

 

[Don CT]

I think it's time for the FCC to allow stations to use 3 letter calls if they chose.

Do listeners even care about call letters. Most stations don't use them to promote anymore. Would it really matter if 3 letter calls came back. Other than FCC bookkeeping why does it matter.

 

[kevtronics]

The FCC may continue to grant exceptions as they arise, but I doubt they'd ever officially change the rule.

 

[Don CT]

The FCC may continue to grant exceptions as they arise, but I doubt they'd ever officially change the rule.

What is the rule for in the first place?

 

[kevtronics]

What is the rule for in the first place?

Quoth the FCC rules, section 73.3550 (Requests for new or modified call sign assignments):

"Only four-letter call signs (plus an LP suffix or FM or TV suffixes, if used) will be assigned. However, subject to the other provisions of this section, a call sign of a station may be conformed to a commonly owned station holding a three-letter call sign assignment (plus FM, TV or LP suffixes, if used)."

This web page explains more of the history of three-letter call signs and why they were phased out in the 1920s:

https://earlyradiohistory.us/3myst.htm

 

[joebtsflk1]

I grew up in Iowa, and worked a few years in the Des Moines market. But I didn't have any idea the ownership chain of KRNT and the current-day KXNO was so confusing.

Here's a summary of what I found in the FCC History Cards for KRNT: It first went on the air in 1925 at Clarinda IA by the Berry Seed Company as KSO. (Clarinda is only about 12 miles east of Shenandoah, home of KMA and the old KFNF which were owned by competing seed and nursery companies...Friendly Farmer Stations ) In 1931, KSO (the future KRNT) was purchased by the Cowles family who owned the Des Moines Register and Tribune and was moved from Clarinda to Des Moines. It wasn't until 1935 that the change from KSO to KRNT occurred. That's when Cowles completed its upgrade and move of KWCR Cedar Rapids to Des Moines and moved the KSO calls to that facility. KRNT History Cards

A summary of the KXNO History Cards: It first went on the air in 1927 as KWCR Cedar Rapids, owned by Harry F. Paar. Cowles bought KWCR Cedar Rapids and its adjacent channel neighbor WIAS Ottumwa IA in 1933. WIAS was deleted to allow for an expanded operation of KWCR at Des Moines. The CP for the upgraded KWCR was granted in 1935. KXNO (KSO) History Cards

When the smoke cleared from all of those transactions and moves, by 1936 Cowles' Iowa Broadcasting Company owned KRNT and KSO in Des Moines as well as WMT in Cedar Rapids.
__________________________

It's an interesting story, but given how confusing the history of KRNT and KXNO has been, Saga's proposal to place the KSO calls on KRNT is just a bad, bad idea.

 

[dxsphere]

It's ironic they care so much about long-dead call letters, but care so little about them on HD Radio's station ID field. According to it, WLTW's call letters are now "LITE"; WNYL is now "ALT-FM"; and WUMR's call letters are now "Rumba" (yes, five letters, including lowercase, which I didn't know the call sign field was even capable of!).

The HD station name field was designed match the branding, although it's up to the station/operator what they want to put in that field. The HD station name field I think supports up to 60 characters, though the longest I've seen is 12 ("Maine Public" on WMEA 90.1 Portland ME). Long station names (>4 characters excluding "-FM" suffix) in that field are still rare but are becoming more common.

 

[kevtronics]

The HD station name field was designed match the branding, although it's up to the station/operator what they want to put in that field. The HD station name field I think supports up to 60 characters, though the longest I've seen is 12 ("Maine Public" on WMEA 90.1 Portland ME). Long station names (>4 characters excluding "-FM" suffix) in that field are still rare but are becoming more common.

According to NRSC-5-C, the HD Radio "Station Name - short format" field "Identifies the 4-alpha-character station call sign plus an optional extension", while the "Station Name - long format" field "Identifies the station call sign or other identifying information in the long format" and "May consist of up to 56 alphanumeric characters". It also says the long format is "Not recommended for new designs".

The top row of my car radio's display doesn't have nearly enough room to fit 56 characters, so it's showing the short format field, and thus stations which are using it to display something other than their call letters are breaking the NRSC standard as adopted into the FCC rules; although obviously the risk of them facing any repercussions is practically nil.

 

[dxsphere]

According to NRSC-5-C, the HD Radio "Station Name - short format" field "Identifies the 4-alpha-character station call sign plus an optional extension", while the "Station Name - long format" field "Identifies the station call sign or other identifying information in the long format" and "May consist of up to 56 alphanumeric characters". It also says the long format is "Not recommended for new designs".

The top row of my car radio's display doesn't have nearly enough room to fit 56 characters, so it's showing the short format field, and thus stations which are using it to display something other than their call letters are breaking the NRSC standard as adopted into the FCC rules; although obviously the risk of them facing any repercussions is practically nil.

Believe me, there are a LOT of HD stations out there that don't use their call letters for HD radio display. iHeart is particularly notorious for using their station branding instead; Audacy does it in many of their markets too.