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Sales/Numbers

K

killawatt

Guest
In a large/medium market you sell numbers and most of all you sell results. The owner of a local business doesn't care if you have a 28.8 12+ share with an Urban format - if he's trying to move 5K sofas. And with any station, if you don't drive customers into his/her business your #1 rating in males with pimples on their tails doesn't really matter. The power format ratio in large markets has proven that a major market can not support two CHRs - you make more money being the 4th a/c. Professor Steve was right, Hot 103 is not the same station Hot 107 was - they are making money with it now and 90% of the inventory isn't trade or barter. In State College, I'd be more concerned with the product being sellable than the packaging and imaging.
 
> In a large/medium market you sell numbers and most of all
> you sell results. The owner of a local business doesn't
> care if you have a 28.8 12+ share with an Urban format - if
> he's trying to move 5K sofas. And with any station, if you
> don't drive customers into his/her business your #1 rating
> in males with pimples on their tails doesn't really matter.
> The power format ratio in large markets has proven that a
> major market can not support two CHRs - you make more money
> being the 4th a/c. Professor Steve was right, Hot 103 is
> not the same station Hot 107 was - they are making money
> with it now and 90% of the inventory isn't trade or barter.
> In State College, I'd be more concerned with the product
> being sellable than the packaging and imaging.
>
Um...New York has 2 CHR's...PLJ and Z100. Someone better tell Scott Shannon to get out of the road cause there is no room for him in the Big Apple. (more than 2 New York CHR's if you count rhythmic stations as well by the way). Closer to home Wilkes/Barre Scranton has 2 CHR's both of which have been around for an eternity. Take the Harrisburg/Lancaster/York area which is combined for the book's purposes and you have something like FOUR CHR's there. There is room for 2 in this town...its just that more than likely you will not conquer and dominate, you will have to learn to share the marketshares between you. But I can read between your lines and I get your message...you'd rather sell bad radio than broadcast good radio to an audience you don't know how to sell.

Let's not forget that HOT was overtaking BHV in the numbers game and that is the real reason the station was disolved. Could it be that their imaging and packaging were in fact better? Wait...you just said that did not matter. To whom I wonder...to the listeners or to the salesteam??? Interesing that a station with a lackluster frequency and spotty coverage could outdo one with a good frequency and coverage area...but that is precisely what happened if you missed it.

Steve
 
> In a large/medium market you sell numbers and most of all
> you sell results. The owner of a local business doesn't
> care if you have a 28.8 12+ share with an Urban format - if
> he's trying to move 5K sofas. And with any station, if you
> don't drive customers into his/her business your #1 rating
> in males with pimples on their tails doesn't really matter.
> The power format ratio in large markets has proven that a
> major market can not support two CHRs - you make more money
> being the 4th a/c. Professor Steve was right, Hot 103 is
> not the same station Hot 107 was - they are making money
> with it now and 90% of the inventory isn't trade or barter.
> In State College, I'd be more concerned with the product
> being sellable than the packaging and imaging.
>
Don't be too sure that a good part of the inventory aren't spots that are bonused for running flights on other Forever stations, or spots at a cut rate in a similar type of deal. This happens in Altoona on WWOT, from what I hear.

I also hear quite a few PSAs on WQWK's Bob and Tom Broadcast. At Dame, QWK was very often sold out.

Dame Broadcasting was its own worst enemy, though. When you have a large group in the market selling $5 or $7 units and doing one-for-one deals, it self-perpetuates. If everybody in the market has rate integrity, it brings everybody up. It just takes one or two stations to (BLEEP) the whole market.

If the product truly has value, then don't de-value it by giving it away.

As for a station being "sellable", almost any station is sellable if you have people who can sell. Period.

and in an unrelated note, I'm not sure why I was "bleeped". I used a word meaning to ruin or thwart, starting with QU and ending with EER. Surely we're not at the point where we can't use a legitimate word just because somebody finds one definition of it offensive. <P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by Spackler on 07/07/05 01:47 AM.</FONT></P>
 
> Um...New York has 2 CHR's...PLJ and Z100. Someone better
> tell Scott Shannon to get out of the road cause there is no
> room for him in the Big Apple.

Uuummmm...NYC has ONE CHR and ONE CHR only, WHTZ...WPLJ is a Hot AC.

> Closer
> to home Wilkes/Barre Scranton has 2 CHR's both of which have
> been around for an eternity.

W/B does have two CHR's, but WKRZ is more of a Hot AC than a CHR and BHT is the true CHR...the stations sound NOTHING alike.

> Take the
> Harrisburg/Lancaster/York area which is combined for the
> book's purposes and you have something like FOUR CHR's
> there.

Cool Pop just flipped format last week to AC (the 4th AC can make good money, as pointed out by Killawat)...KISS is the only CHR is Harrisburg, WINK is Hot AC, Hot 92 is Rhythmic and WLAN is a Lancaster station that didn't even show in the last book in H'Town...so please, tell us where there are FOUR??? 1 + 1 = 2...I is good in mathamamatics.

As for this market, I'll continue to take my "I am not here to comment on my station" stance as I have in the past (because certain people are good at telling everyone of how we bad we suck anyway....mmuuuhhhaaahahahaha)...but if we're gonna talk radio FACTS, not opinion, I figured I'd like for you to get those facts correct before posting :)

(DISCLAIMER: this post is pure sarcasm and meant to entertain and be informative all in one)
 
>
> Uuummmm...NYC has ONE CHR and ONE CHR only, WHTZ...WPLJ is a
> Hot AC.

Ok...taking PLJ out of the equation...FROM R&R's ratings pages
New York WQHT, WHTZ, WKTU, WBLI ALL classisfied CHR's...that makes 4 in the Big Apple...I'd still call PLJ a CHR as well by the way. Shannon dropped the CHR stance to retain reporting status...but more or less its an Adult CHR!

> > Closer
> > to home Wilkes/Barre Scranton has 2 CHR's both of which
> have
> > been around for an eternity.
>
> W/B does have two CHR's, but WKRZ is more of a Hot AC than a
> CHR and BHT is the true CHR...the stations sound NOTHING
> alike.
>
True...they do not sound alike...but they are both called CHR and they peacefully coexist. Have for AGES!!! By the way, one was home to some big names like Kid Kelly for quite a long time too and they forced KRZ to move to a more Hot A/C type stance by taking them on head on and doing a better job at it.

> > Take the
> > Harrisburg/Lancaster/York area which is combined for the
> > book's purposes and you have something like FOUR CHR's
> > there.
>
> Cool Pop just flipped format last week to AC (the 4th AC can
> make good money, as pointed out by Killawat)...KISS is the
> only CHR is Harrisburg, WINK is Hot AC, Hot 92 is Rhythmic
> and WLAN is a Lancaster station that didn't even show in the
> last book in H'Town...so please, tell us where there are
> FOUR??? 1 + 1 = 2...I is good in mathamamatics.
>
May not have rated high, but FOUR CHR's got numbers in Harrisburg by the way...the same 4 showed in Lancaster. WLAN WAS one of them...did not show well in Harrisburg...but they did SHOW. 3 of the 4 showed in York. You and I both know that you can call it Rhythmic if you want to make it sound like it does not count...but its really called Rhythmic CHR (like Hot 107.9!)

1 + 1 + 1 - 1 that flipped still equals THREE which takes me back to the comment that the market can sustain TWO easily and in fact it did for several years with the Beave! and Hot coexisting

> As for this market, I'll continue to take my "I am not here
> to comment on my station" stance as I have in the past
> (because certain people are good at telling everyone of how
> we bad we suck anyway....mmuuuhhhaaahahahaha)...but if we're
> gonna talk radio FACTS, not opinion, I figured I'd like for
> you to get those facts correct before posting :)
>
> (DISCLAIMER: this post is pure sarcasm and meant to
> entertain and be informative all in one)
By the way Glen...never said your station sucked. It has its place. Not sure its the place for all, but I will not deny you your audience. People are listening and some like it just fine...some do not as well. Its those people we want to reach! Oh and you did comment in the CDT by the way...I believe it was something to the effect that your product is superior...but maybe I misread that.

Hitman

(By the way...an equally sarcastic remark ya know! Its all good...you are the Ying to my Yang!)
 
> I'd still call PLJ a CHR as well
> by the way.

Well the REST of the industry calls it Hot AC...but what the hell do we know??

> Shannon dropped the CHR stance to retain
> reporting status...but more or less its an Adult CHR!
>

Oh, come....do you HONESTLY think a NYC station changed it's format JUST to keep reporting status??????? That is COMEDY at it's finest.


> May not have rated high, but FOUR CHR's got numbers in
> Harrisburg by the way...the same 4 showed in Lancaster.
> WLAN WAS one of them...did not show well in Harrisburg...but
> they did SHOW.

I did see WLAN listed in R&R's Arbitron, I didn't see it in All Access's Arb section so I guess you're right WLAN is a POWERHOUSE in Harrisburg...a FULL tenth of a point...better have Clear Channel watch out or else they're gonna bite their own hand off.

> 3 of the 4 showed in York. You and I both
> know that you can call it Rhythmic if you want to make it
> sound like it does not count...but its really called
> Rhythmic CHR (like Hot 107.9!)

Huh?? Rhythmic CHR is MUCH different than CHR...they are two COMPLETELY different formats. By using your logic, AC should be lumped in with CHR becuase they both use the word "Contemporary."

>
> 1 + 1 + 1 - 1 that flipped still equals THREE which takes me
> back to the comment that the market can sustain TWO easily
> and in fact it did for several years with the Beave! and Hot
> coexisting
>

So 1 CHR + 1 CHR (with a KILLER .1) = 2. There is also a Rhythmic CHR, which IS a different format and an AC which was actually a Hot AC before it flipped...so it is STILL 2!!!

Even if you looked at WLAN as a player in Harrisburg, they are not selling to the same clients that KISS is selling to and vice versa. They are two different stations from two different markets.

> Oh and you did comment in the CDT by the
> way...I believe it was something to the effect that your
> product is superior...but maybe I misread that.

My comment in the CDT was in reference to our station, not in comparison to any other. I used the word superior as I would have used superlative or spectacular, it's not my fault it was not represented within the context of what I actually said. So yes, I have kept my stance :)

> Hitman
>
> (By the way...an equally sarcastic remark ya know! Its all
> good...you are the Ying to my Yang!)
>
 
Stevie boy...ya know there was radio in the world before your claim to fame at B103 Scott Shannon is not half the programmer you are...he only started the morning zoo concept, took Q105/Tampa #1, put Z100 on the air, then took over PLJ and it outbills Z100 by the way...and every little P3 PD like yourself tried to imitate his imaging and contesting for the past 24 years. You are smart to be in the Pittsburgh room asking how to sell a CHR - ask 'em too how you're average spot rate is going to be over 5 bucks a spot being the 2nd CHR in a market where top dollar is 20 a holler...and by the way 10 years ago, EVERY top 20 market had 2 or more PURE chr's now some have none. And if EZ Communications had taken B94 Hot AC in the late 80's they would have KDKA numbers today. You have mastered State College radio, I was just so impressed to know you have the answers for the 'burgh also.
> >
> > Uuummmm...NYC has ONE CHR and ONE CHR only, WHTZ...WPLJ is
> a
> > Hot AC.
>
> Ok...taking PLJ out of the equation...FROM R&R's ratings
> pages
> New York WQHT, WHTZ, WKTU, WBLI ALL classisfied CHR's...that
> makes 4 in the Big Apple...I'd still call PLJ a CHR as well
> by the way. Shannon dropped the CHR stance to retain
> reporting status...but more or less its an Adult CHR!
>
> > > Closer
> > > to home Wilkes/Barre Scranton has 2 CHR's both of which
> > have
> > > been around for an eternity.
> >
> > W/B does have two CHR's, but WKRZ is more of a Hot AC than
> a
> > CHR and BHT is the true CHR...the stations sound NOTHING
> > alike.
> >
> True...they do not sound alike...but they are both called
> CHR and they peacefully coexist. Have for AGES!!! By the
> way, one was home to some big names like Kid Kelly for quite
> a long time too and they forced KRZ to move to a more Hot
> A/C type stance by taking them on head on and doing a better
> job at it.
>
> > > Take the
> > > Harrisburg/Lancaster/York area which is combined for the
>
> > > book's purposes and you have something like FOUR CHR's
> > > there.
> >
> > Cool Pop just flipped format last week to AC (the 4th AC
> can
> > make good money, as pointed out by Killawat)...KISS is the
>
> > only CHR is Harrisburg, WINK is Hot AC, Hot 92 is Rhythmic
>
> > and WLAN is a Lancaster station that didn't even show in
> the
> > last book in H'Town...so please, tell us where there are
> > FOUR??? 1 + 1 = 2...I is good in mathamamatics.
> >
> May not have rated high, but FOUR CHR's got numbers in
> Harrisburg by the way...the same 4 showed in Lancaster.
> WLAN WAS one of them...did not show well in Harrisburg...but
> they did SHOW. 3 of the 4 showed in York. You and I both
> know that you can call it Rhythmic if you want to make it
> sound like it does not count...but its really called
> Rhythmic CHR (like Hot 107.9!)
>
> 1 + 1 + 1 - 1 that flipped still equals THREE which takes me
> back to the comment that the market can sustain TWO easily
> and in fact it did for several years with the Beave! and Hot
> coexisting
>
> > As for this market, I'll continue to take my "I am not
> here
> > to comment on my station" stance as I have in the past
> > (because certain people are good at telling everyone of
> how
> > we bad we suck anyway....mmuuuhhhaaahahahaha)...but if
> we're
> > gonna talk radio FACTS, not opinion, I figured I'd like
> for
> > you to get those facts correct before posting :)
> >
> > (DISCLAIMER: this post is pure sarcasm and meant to
> > entertain and be informative all in one)
> By the way Glen...never said your station sucked. It has
> its place. Not sure its the place for all, but I will not
> deny you your audience. People are listening and some like
> it just fine...some do not as well. Its those people we
> want to reach! Oh and you did comment in the CDT by the
> way...I believe it was something to the effect that your
> product is superior...but maybe I misread that.
>
> Hitman
>
> (By the way...an equally sarcastic remark ya know! Its all
> good...you are the Ying to my Yang!)
>
 
It might be good to remember that all y'all are working in market 250. Fancy new building or behind a concrete store, market 250 nonetheless. Nobody should get too big for their breeches.
I on the other hand am not working in radio in any market anymore. At least you have that on me.
 
> > Oh and you did comment in the CDT by the
> > way...I believe it was something to the effect that your
> > product is superior...but maybe I misread that.
>
> My comment in the CDT was in reference to our station, not
> in comparison to any other. I used the word superior as I
> would have used superlative or spectacular, it's not my
> fault it was not represented within the context of what I
> actually said. So yes, I have kept my stance :)

"[The new Forever station is Hot 103, State College's other hit-music station.

"We feel that we provide the best source for hit music in the market," said Glen Turner, operations manager at Hot 103 and Forever's other State College stations. "We feel that our personalities, our rotation and overall presentation are superior. ... We're going to continue to plug away and not let the competition affect what we do."]"

It appears it reads just like you meant it and it's not negative. And even if it were in comparison, there isn't a damn thing wrong with that either...
 
> Stevie boy...ya know there was radio in the world before
> your claim to fame at B103 Scott Shannon is not half the
> programmer you are...he only started the morning zoo
> concept, took Q105/Tampa #1, put Z100 on the air, then took
> over PLJ and it outbills Z100 by the way...and every little
> P3 PD like yourself tried to imitate his imaging and
> contesting for the past 24 years. You are smart to be in the
> Pittsburgh room asking how to sell a CHR - ask 'em too how
> you're average spot rate is going to be over 5 bucks a spot
> being the 2nd CHR in a market where top dollar is 20 a
> holler...and by the way 10 years ago, EVERY top 20 market
> had 2 or more PURE chr's now some have none. And if EZ
> Communications had taken B94 Hot AC in the late 80's they
> would have KDKA numbers today. You have mastered State
> College radio, I was just so impressed to know you have the
> answers for the 'burgh also.
> > >
In case you misread my post...I was trying to be flattering to Shannon. I have always admired him and his abilities. He is a brilliant programmer and an all around good guy. Scott does some consulting and I had the good fortune of exchanging some dialog with him a long time ago although I am sure he has no recollection of me whatsoever. Still it was nice he wasted his time talking to a little guy like me.
 
You and I both
> > know that you can call it Rhythmic if you want to make it
> > sound like it does not count...but its really called
> > Rhythmic CHR (like Hot 107.9!)
>
> Huh?? Rhythmic CHR is MUCH different than CHR...they are
> two COMPLETELY different formats. By using your logic, AC
> should be lumped in with CHR becuase they both use the word
> "Contemporary."

Well yes Rhythmic CHR is different than mainstream CHR unless you try and marry the 2 together by soaking up the calls and the handle of the Rhythmic CHR that overtakes your station in the ratings and well then you simply become all things to all people I guess. But what the hell do I know? I seem to remember hearing something to the effect that HOT isn't gone...they just moved up the dial??? Does anyone really think the old Hot listeners think the station sounds JUST like it used to...no...its a blend of both station's styles. Its not really Hot and its not really Beaver...its something in the middle.

And getting back to the original post...it seemed that the author was basically saying it does not matter what the sound of the station is as long as your sales staff can move it on the streets. As a person with a programming background I refuse to sign up for that mentality. I'd rather have my ear on the audience first and let the station's popularity drive the sales end which can and has been done in this market in the past by the way!

Oh and as a buyer of advertising myself, I appreciate NOT being gouged at $22-25 a spot when I know very well there are clients out there paying cut rates. Those are rates for the Nationals to pay and not the local mom and pop shops trying to make a go of it. Its interesting how the sales person who has to defend their high prices is so quick to talk badly about the guys selling at a better rate than them.

I am not saying your station does that...I do not know the inner workings of Forever's sales staff so I do not know how or why they sell the way they do, nor am I privy of knowing if the station is programmed to the clients or to the audience. I was only commenting on one person's take.

Steve
 
What a testament to radio. You have a problem with a 20 dollar rate in radio and yet don’t mind buying the bird cage liner (CDT) for $600 for an eight of a page (providing you want to run on the 5th Monday of every month). My point on programming is – numbers count in a decent size market (like NY where a tenth of a share point translates to over a million in revenue)….but in State College, it doesn’t matter if you have Mitch Craig, Ernie Anderson or Donald Duck as your voice guy – you use Real World jingles or a cheap package from Jam…if every time Jeff Stevenson at Dix Honda sees a rep from your station and it’s a new face for the 8th time this year or they walk in his office spitting out Arbitron numbers YOU’RE NOT BEING BOUGHT. In a small market, the sales/client relationship is much greater than in a larger market…and a good salesman can sell crap. Having a great product doesn’t mean you have a license to print money. Try telling Amex “we couldn’t make payroll at our company this month, BUT Mitch Craig is doing the liners, how about an mp3?” It’s better to be consistently mediocre than sporadically great. It seems to work for a couple of stations in the market.


> You and I both
> > > know that you can call it Rhythmic if you want to make
> it
> > > sound like it does not count...but its really called
> > > Rhythmic CHR (like Hot 107.9!)
> >
> > Huh?? Rhythmic CHR is MUCH different than CHR...they are
> > two COMPLETELY different formats. By using your logic, AC
>
> > should be lumped in with CHR becuase they both use the
> word
> > "Contemporary."
>
> Well yes Rhythmic CHR is different than mainstream CHR
> unless you try a
nd marry the 2 together by soaking up the
> calls and the handle of the Rhythmic CHR that overtakes your
> station in the ratings and well then you simply become all
> things to all people I guess. But what the hell do I know?
> I seem to remember hearing something to the effect that HOT
> isn't gone...they just moved up the dial??? Does anyone
> really think the old Hot listeners think the station sounds
> JUST like it used to...no...its a blend of both station's
> styles. Its not really Hot and its not really Beaver...its
> something in the middle.
>
> And getting back to the original post...it seemed that the
> author was basically saying it does not matter what the
> sound of the station is as long as your sales staff can move
> it on the streets. As a person with a programming
> background I refuse to sign up for that mentality. I'd
> rather have my ear on the audience first and let the
> station's popularity drive the sales end which can and has
> been done in this market in the past by the way!
>
> Oh and as a buyer of advertising myself, I appreciate NOT
> being gouged at $22-25 a spot when I know very well there
> are clients out there paying cut rates. Those are rates for
> the Nationals to pay and not the local mom and pop shops
> trying to make a go of it. Its interesting how the sales
> person who has to defend their high prices is so quick to
> talk badly about the guys selling at a better rate than
> them.
>
> I am not saying your station does that...I do not know the
> inner workings of Forever's sales staff so I do not know how
> or why they sell the way they do, nor am I privy of knowing
> if the station is programmed to the clients or to the
> audience. I was only commenting on one person's take.
>
> Steve
>
 
Re: Lovin happy valley

Are you the duke of drywall? You sound so bitter on the last few posts. I have always enjoyed reading your posts before but wow! You say that you are no longer in the business but seemed very informed. I am unaware of any group or station in the area that has not made payroll ever and I have been in radio longer in SC for a very, very long time. As far as the rev/G/WGMR having a good liner guy what does that have to do with anything? You point out they ar renting a newer building on commercial boulevard from a company that has a store in the back of the same property. So does 3wz with Barker still in the basement. All the stations rented for years. Don’t you think it’s a very interesting arrangement on Clearview Ave. now, heh?

As far as the battle over what is CHR and all can we all look back a few years and remember when there was no such thing as a hot ac, or rhythmic CHR, or any half of the splinter formats that now exist of any other format. You had four or five formats, that it. Even today and shoot me here, but the splinter formats are separated by a mere handful of songs and pure positioning that it. By the way its like that in every market not just little tiny 250. Blast away boys!
 
Re: Lovin happy valley

> Are you the duke of drywall? You sound so bitter on the last
> few posts. I have always enjoyed reading your posts before
> but wow! You say that you are no longer in the business but
> seemed very informed. I am unaware of any group or station
> in the area that has not made payroll ever and I have been
> in radio longer in SC for a very, very long time. As far as
> the rev/G/WGMR having a good liner guy what does that have
> to do with anything?

I don't know. I didn't say anything about the liner guy.



You point out they ar renting a newer
> building on commercial boulevard from a company that has a
> store in the back of the same property. So does 3wz with
> Barker still in the basement. All the stations rented for
> years. Don’t you think it’s a very interesting arrangement
> on Clearview Ave. now, heh?

What I'm saying is, there are a lot of people throwing stones at each other in this thread, some with a tone that I read as smug and superior. All of those people are in the biz in the same market, in case they sometimes forget that. I am not making any judgments about facilities. I am saying that from the nicest building to the lowliest shack in Philipsburg, y'all are in the same market.
 
Re: Lovin happy valley

> > Are you the duke of drywall? You sound so bitter on the
> last
> > few posts. I have always enjoyed reading your posts before
>
> > but wow! You say that you are no longer in the business
> but
> > seemed very informed. I am unaware of any group or station
>
> > in the area that has not made payroll ever and I have been
>
> > in radio longer in SC for a very, very long time. As far
> as
> > the rev/G/WGMR having a good liner guy what does that have
>
> > to do with anything?
>
> I don't know. I didn't say anything about the liner guy.
>
>
>
> You point out they ar renting a newer
> > building on commercial boulevard from a company that has a
>
> > store in the back of the same property. So does 3wz with
> > Barker still in the basement. All the stations rented for
> > years. Don’t you think it’s a very interesting arrangement
>
> > on Clearview Ave. now, heh?
>
> What I'm saying is, there are a lot of people throwing
> stones at each other in this thread, some with a tone that I
> read as smug and superior. All of those people are in the
> biz in the same market, in case they sometimes forget that.
> I am not making any judgments about facilities. I am saying
> that from the nicest building to the lowliest shack in
> Philipsburg, y'all are in the same market.
>

And if you read my posts, you'll see that I am not hear to get into a pissing match about "mine is better than yours" because it is all opinion anyway.

I am a true radio geek that will play point, counter-point all day long about radio just as I would about baseball or football...it's just in my nature.

I have said it before on this boards and I'll say it again, I respect each and every broadcaster, regardless of market.
 
Re: Lovin happy valley

> > > Are you the duke of drywall? You sound so bitter on the
> > last
> > > few posts. I have always enjoyed reading your posts
> before
> >
> > > but wow! You say that you are no longer in the business
> > but
> > > seemed very informed. I am unaware of any group or
> station
> >
> > > in the area that has not made payroll ever and I have
> been
> >
> > > in radio longer in SC for a very, very long time. As
> far
> > as
> > > the rev/G/WGMR having a good liner guy what does that
> have
> >
> > > to do with anything?
> >
> > I don't know. I didn't say anything about the liner guy.
> >
> >
> >
> > You point out they ar renting a newer
> > > building on commercial boulevard from a company that has
> a
> >
> > > store in the back of the same property. So does 3wz with
>
> > > Barker still in the basement. All the stations rented
> for
> > > years. Don’t you think it’s a very interesting
> arrangement
> >
> > > on Clearview Ave. now, heh?
> >
> > What I'm saying is, there are a lot of people throwing
> > stones at each other in this thread, some with a tone that
> I
> > read as smug and superior. All of those people are in the
> > biz in the same market, in case they sometimes forget
> that.
> > I am not making any judgments about facilities. I am
> saying
> > that from the nicest building to the lowliest shack in
> > Philipsburg, y'all are in the same market.
> >
>
> And if you read my posts, you'll see that I am not hear to
> get into a pissing match about "mine is better than yours"
> because it is all opinion anyway.
>
> I am a true radio geek that will play point, counter-point
> all day long about radio just as I would about baseball or
> football...it's just in my nature.
>
> I have said it before on this boards and I'll say it again,
> I respect each and every broadcaster, regardless of market.
> I also respect all the talent in this market as I have said repeatedly....most of the stations are making a concerted effort to serve the listener...isn't that why we are in the business? After 32 years for me things have changed.........It doesn't matter who the liner guy is....ernie anderson used to cut our liners in Boston......and if you want his voice even though he's dead it will cost you $2000 a year not bad from the grave..but does the listener care? Jingles? it only matters that they are good enough for the LISTENER to remeber your arb id for diary purposes....the best now...will morgan kroq for liners....the biggest problem for years in state college is that the revolving door at ALL the stations needs a 2x4 stuck in it.i have worked with some fine young talent in SC a couple I would call friends.I hope they hang around and prosper..Stable talent brings familiarity and growth especially drives and weekends....that is why the Jack format works.....people are connecting with the music and the artist they remember and enjoy.......no pesky dj's moving in and out...just an edgy liner guy....8-9 shares in the major market? Years before blogs and boards when I was a Group PD in the Northeast I would make an effort to meet with my competition at least once or twice a year and speak with them occ to establish a working relationship and keep misconceptions and staff problems at a minimum...you know you really connected with the listener is when they start picketing in front of your studios and all 3 major NY dailies run a front page story...that is why WCBS-FM greets you daily as you sign in here......one last thing...why has everyone forgot about news? after 9/11 the news is even more important now than ever!!
 
A late entry: Why 2 CHRs work in SC!

(Sorry I missed most of this conversation; some of us go to bed early). Killawatt, you've tossed a bunch of stuff on the table.

> In a large/medium market you sell numbers and most of all
> you sell results. The owner of a local business doesn't
> care if you have a 28.8 12+ share with an Urban format - if
> he's trying to move 5K sofas. And with any station, if you
> don't drive customers into his/her business your #1 rating
> in males with pimples on their tails doesn't really matter.

Ratings aren't designed for the seller; they're designed for the advertising buyer--to help them determine relative value. Relative strength or weakness in gender, age, or income helps the ad buyer match media (radio stations) with their specific business needs. Arbitron has been surveying State College 24 weeks a year for the past 8 years (and prior to that, 12 weeks a year since 1991). After 15 years of seeing this info, the local direct ad buyer is VERY familiar with it. The State College ad buyer is also VERY well educated, compared--let's say--to Altoona, or Scranton. They know how to read it, and they expect to see it. If you think ratings don't matter in State College, you're too far into that 6-pack.

> The power format ratio in large markets has proven that a
> major market can not support two CHRs - you make more money
> being the 4th a/c.

The percentage of 18-24 year olds in the State College metro is 25.5%--that's triple the percentage for that demo in the New York metro. No radio market in America has a higher percentage of 18-24, the core of the CHR demo. Two CHRs may not work anywhere else, but SC ain't like anywhere else. Just for emphasis, lemme repeat that: State College has the highest percentage of 18 to 24 year olds of any radio market in the United States. #1 in America for 18-24s.

Professor Steve was right, Hot 103 is
> not the same station Hot 107 was - they are making money
> with it now and 90% of the inventory isn't trade or barter.

There's so much multi-station packaging going on that even Forever's own accountants don't know how much billing to assign to each station.

> In State College, I'd be more concerned with the product
> being sellable than the packaging and imaging.

Yes, commercial radio stations are in just one business--selling ads. But that business relies on attracting a large and attractive audience, so imaging and other programming decisions are critical to the process.
 
Re: Lovin happy valley

one last thing...why has
> everyone forgot about news? after 9/11 the news is even
> more important now than ever!!
>
Hank...good question and well...Sadly...surveys show that today's listeners may not care as much about news as you would believe. They are sick of being hit with this place was robbed and this person got killed and another soldier died in Iraq. I think we need to refocus how we handle the news. Kudos to any jock smart enough to read something on the wire or the internet and integrate it into his/her show. Sadly more people today cared what happened at the Jackson Trial than who cared what the death toll was in Iraq. But if another 9-11 tragedy strikes GOD FORBID...people will care again for a brief little while and then its back on with their lives as usual.

Its just not worth stations putting a LOT of resources into the news when their audience is not caring if they hear the news or not. Look at the ratings for Network News on tv...people just aren't watching anymore.
 
Re: Lovin happy valley

> It doesn't matter who the liner guy
> is....ernie anderson used to cut our liners in
> Boston......

KISS 108 still uses his Legal ID's to this day and they sound freakin' great on the air...that station is why I got into radio in the first place :)
 
Re: Lovin happy valley

> one last thing...why has
> > everyone forgot about news? after 9/11 the news is even
> > more important now than ever!!
> >
> Hank...good question and well...Sadly...surveys show that
> today's listeners may not care as much about news as you
> would believe. They are sick of being hit with this place
> was robbed and this person got killed and another soldier
> died in Iraq. I think we need to refocus how we handle the
> news. Kudos to any jock smart enough to read something on
> the wire or the internet and integrate it into his/her show.
> Sadly more people today cared what happened at the Jackson
> Trial than who cared what the death toll was in Iraq. But
> if another 9-11 tragedy strikes GOD FORBID...people will
> care again for a brief little while and then its back on
> with their lives as usual.
>
> Its just not worth stations putting a LOT of resources into
> the news when their audience is not caring if they hear the
> news or not. Look at the ratings for Network News on
> tv...people just aren't watching anymore.
> One last note on this news thing........I was in Ft. Myers florida on the air when 9/11 happened..we are a classic rock station...........after about 30seconds of discussion we were wall to wall abc radio until that evening at 430 when i went back on the air live............Steve your point is well taken, djs should be able to work news into their bits...Glen yes ernie did great work and yes KISS 108 is a great station, I used to play B-Ball with Matt Siegel every Thursday in Quincy and the late Sunny Joe White was a big help to me in theday....how many more weeks to the fall book? lets all have a good radio summer with good promotions etc...then let the race begin....have a great day..
Paul Adams/weekends WOWY
 
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