San Francisco Grandfather stations

[e-dawg]

How did San Francisco get a hold of a lot of Grandfather radio stations? Because, for the area of San Francisco, it supposed to be 50kw/150 Meters HAAT.
(G)= Grandfather
88.5 KQED G
94.1 KPFK G
94.9 KYLD G
96.5 KOIT G
97.3 KLLC G
98.1 KISQ G
99.7 KFRC G
100.3 KBRG G (San Jose)
101.3 KIOI G
102.1 KDFC G
103.7 KKSF G
104.5 KFOG G
105.3 KITS G
106.1 KMEL G
106.9 KIFR G

Non-Grandfather
93.3 KBAY
95.7 KZBR
98.9 KSOL
102.9 KBLX
107.7 KSAN

 

[davideduardo]

Re: San Francisco Grandfathered FMs

> How did San Francisco get a hold of a lot of Grandfather
> radio stations? Because, for the area of San Francisco, it
> supposed to be 50kw/150 Meters HAAT.

"Grandfathered" is a term of the trade that indicates stations that are older than the current table of allocations and power classifications.

In the early years of FM, mostly beginning in 1946 when the band moved to its current frequencies, there was virtually no power limit. Most of the early stations turned in thier licences in the first 20 very unprofitable years of FM. In fact, there were more FMs on the air in 1950 than in 1960!

However, several hundred of these early stations that had powers and height ratios that exceeded current class limits were allowed to remain at thier licenced values.

So, a grandfathered station is one which was licensed in the early days of FM.

 

[sfradio]

Re: San Francisco Grandfathered FMs

> > How did San Francisco get a hold of a lot of Grandfather
> > radio stations? Because, for the area of San Francisco, it
>
> > supposed to be 50kw/150 Meters HAAT.
>
> "Grandfathered" is a term of the trade that indicates
> stations that are older than the current table of
> allocations and power classifications.
>
> In the early years of FM, mostly beginning in 1946 when the
> band moved to its current frequencies, there was virtually
> no power limit. Most of the early stations turned in thier
> licences in the first 20 very unprofitable years of FM. In
> fact, there were more FMs on the air in 1950 than in 1960!
>
> However, several hundred of these early stations that had
> powers and height ratios that exceeded current class limits
> were allowed to remain at thier licenced values.
>
> So, a grandfathered station is one which was licensed in the
> early days of FM.
>
and with that said then really the only grandfathered station is kioi and kqed
<P ID="signature">______________
http://natedoggairchecks.6x.to/
xxnate_doggxx (at) myway (dot) com</P>

 

[KMRichards]

Re: San Francisco Grandfathered FMs

> and with that said then really the only grandfathered
> station is kioi and kqed

Unless you actually understand how grandfathered stations were so designated.

The current height/power limits went into effect in 1962. Any station that has not changed its transmitter location since then is allowed to operate at the height/power they were licensed for in 1962.

A complete list is at Doug Smith's website:
<a target="_blank" href=http://www.w9wi.com/articles/grand_fm.htm>http://www.w9wi.com/articles/grand_fm.htm</a>

Note that, in addition to 88.5 and 101.3, Bay Area stations that qualify for the status of "grandfathered" include 94.9, 96.5, 97.3, 98.1, 99.7, 100.3, 102.1, 103.7, 105.3, 106.1, and 106.9 (I have listed them by frequency because Doug hasn't updated the list with call letter changes since he created it back in the 1990s).

Also note that KQED is actually one of the rare <u>exceptions</u> to the rule, due to the circumstances of their existence.<P ID="signature">______________


</P>

 

[w9wi]

Re: San Francisco Grandfathered FMs

> > So, a grandfathered station is one which was licensed in
> the
> > early days of FM.
> >
> and with that said then really the only grandfathered
> station is kioi and kqed

I think either you're misunderstanding when the current FM limits were adopted, or what the limits are in the Bay Area...

The Bay Area is in Zone I-A, where the limit is 50kw at 150m. Any station running more than 50kw ERP (and there are a lot of them!) is grandfathered - was on the air before the current rules were adopted. Many stations with less than 50kw are still grandfathered if their antennas are higher than 150m. (one example - of many - is KDFC. Only 33kw, but their antenna is 320m high. At that height, if they weren't grandfathered they'd be limited to 10kw or so.)

By the way, most LA-area stations are also grandfathered for the same reasons. As are quite a few in San Diego, and the odd station elsewhere in California.

Grandfathering is a lot less common outside California. I don't know offhand of any in the NYC market, and in Chicago only WMBI and WFMT. I suppose the greater population density in the East meant that authorizing superpower stations unduly limited the number of stations possible in smaller major cities like Hartford and Baltimore. Areas like Seattle and and Atlanta are in Zone II where the limit is 100kw at 600m, so there's much less need for superpower. (it's not totally unheardof though. There is, for example, a 115kw station in Omaha.)