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San Francisco Is Market #3 For Radio Listeners

marsneedsscoop said:
For the last two weeks, we've been counting down the Top 10 Markets for Radio Listeners. And the countdown rolls on today with the Bay Area at No. 3.

http://www.infinitedial.com/2007/11/the_ten_best_markets_for_radio_7.php
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I'm trying to figure out what purpose this serves. The post mentions the usual suspects, so there is no new information there -- but it fails to mention some of the stations that are truly innovative, but people don't know anything about.

How about KCSM-FM, the only fulltime jazz station? Not only is KCSM a great resource for current jazz, but they also have the archives of KJAZ, the first all-jazz station. So, KCSM can play just about anything in jazz performed from the 1920s to the present day from its own library.

And there's no mention of KALW, which has an extremely wide variety of programming from African music on Thursdays to blues on Mondays, to the Berkeley Symphony on Sundays (let alone bluegrass, folk, and Tin Pan alley music from the 20s). KALW is a truly local station, unlike KQED which was mentioned and spends fully 1/4 of its broadcast day playing "Morning Edition" over and over.

What's up with nothing about KUSF, a true pioneer in college radio, and a longtime hit-maker in fringe music -- or KPFA, the pioneer in community radio, which hosts the only show dedicated to the Church of the Subgenius?

There's no mention of KPOO, a rich treasure trove of music from blues and urban sounds to rockabilly, interspersed with public meetings and special programs with special interest to the poor and downtrodden. KPOO has an exemplary schedule and is a true pioneer in a new form of radio.

Some "research" company you guys run. Sheesh!
 
They talked about how San Francisco doesn't have a Top 40. Speaking of which. How long will I have to wait to see Top 40 come back to the Bay Area?! Seriously are like Radio Companies Stupid?! WTH! Bring back Top 40 you don't need 50 thousand Spanish Stations 90 million Oldies stations and 100 million Hip Hop Stations!!!!And what's with Cheap Channel having Freaking 2 Rhythmic CHR's 106.1 KMEL & Wild 94.9? Are you freaking kidding me?!!!!!!!
 
Re: <2 rhythmic CHRs>, it's the same reason Cumulus has 2 sports stations (and Susqh before them)...they're called flankers. As long as they have 2, it makes it very difficult financially for another company to come into the market and do that format without bleeding cash for years. Protects their investment. It may not suit a lot of folks from a programming standpoint, but it's bidness.
 
XCountry285 said:
They talked about how San Francisco doesn't have a Top 40. Speaking of which. How long will I have to wait to see Top 40 come back to the Bay Area?! Seriously are like Radio Companies Stupid?! WTH! Bring back Top 40 you don't need 50 thousand Spanish Stations 90 million Oldies stations and 100 million Hip Hop Stations!!!!And what's with Cheap Channel having Freaking 2 Rhythmic CHR's 106.1 KMEL & Wild 94.9? Are you freaking kidding me?!!!!!!!
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KYLD is defenitely leaning pop and has been ever since Jazzy Jim came back. They walked away from the "hyphy movement" at just about the right time. A quick look at yes.com shows spins from artists like Ashley Tisdale (of Disney fame) Gym Class Heroes, Maroon 5, etc. I also heard Rockstar by Nickleback late last night, not sure if its just an overnight record but its defenitely a reach from the "Wild" were used to
 
"They talked about how San Francisco doesn't have a Top 40. Speaking of which. How long will I have to wait to see Top 40 come back to the Bay Area?! Seriously are like Radio Companies Stupid?!"

It seems like we cycle back around to this subject every few months. As an official Old Fogey, I'm certainly no longer an expert on Top 40...but I listen to Wild 94.9 fairly often for as long as I can take the music (about 15 minutes). On vacation in LA this summer, my daughter kept 102.7/KIIS-FM on a good deal of the time.

As near as I can tell, the playlists are about 75% the same - don't most urban "top 40" stations lean rhythmic these days? The big difference between the two seemed to be in jocks and formatting, and Wild is better in my opinion..the jocks are reasonably entertaining - and the formatting isn't as endlessly repetitive as KIIS-FMs.
 
XCountry285 said:
How long will I have to wait to see Top 40 come back to the Bay Area?! Seriously are like Radio Companies Stupid?!
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No, they're not stupid. They realize that Top 40 is irrelevant. People simply won't listen to a mix of music based on the Billboard Hot 100 or any other chart of best-sellers unless it's a small town where there isn't much else to listen to.

I think what you're asking for is "white music" by teenaged rock bands. That's not what people are buying anymore.
 
Everyone that tried Top 40 in SF failed, Emmis and Bonneville tried. The only one that almost got a three share was KITS when it was HOT HITS.
 
"Everyone that tried Top 40 in SF failed, Emmis and Bonneville tried. The only one that almost got a three share was KITS when it was HOT HITS."

I don't think you could say that either KYUU ("The Hit Music Station"), or "All-Hit" KMEL failed,exactly. I don't know if KYUU ever reached a 3 share, but it had a fairly long run. I do remember that their ratings were not good the last couple of years, and they kind of flopped around helplessly changing gimmicks and jingles to try to get it popular again. KMEL was more urban from the get-go, and they morphed into Hip Hop/R&B after awhile.

I always assumed this was proof that Top 40 just didn't work in the Bay Area.
 
I wish Z95 would have worked. Then I could still be winning "Z"d's and "Z"-shirts from their promotions squad.
 
Folks, go take a look at Billboard's Hot 100, one of the gauges used in the past to determine "top 40" playlists on radio stations of the KFRC, KYA, KEWB era. Here's a link:
http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/charts/chart_display.jsp?g=Singles&f=The+Billboard+Hot+100

Now, notice that about 1/3 are hip hop, about 1/5 are Nashville Sound country, and the rest are everything from whiny singer/songwriters to specialty acts. Who's going to sit still and listen to this variety of stuff? I venture to guess that nobody here is going to listen to it.
 
DavidKaye said:
Folks, go take a look at Billboard's Hot 100, one of the gauges used in the past to determine "top 40" playlists on radio stations of the KFRC, KYA, KEWB era. Here's a link:
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Actually, David, the charts, whether in Billboard, Cash Box, Gavin, Hamilton, R&R, Rudman, or other places were a reference. Most larger market stations looked at sales of 45's and juke box plays, play on individual stations they respected in other markets, but relied very little on the national charts for anythingg except verification.
 
Back in the day, the music director had to hit the record shops and add up all the 45s that had been sold during a week. A long ways from the iTunes store of today!
 
Top 40 radio is all about 3 things. Promotion, advertising and time. The successful ones tirelessly spend big money on billboards and all kinds of advertising. They also are out on the streets pushing the product, interacting with listeners and pushing giveaways and special events galore. KIIS-FM and WHTZ do this in a big way..they promote and they have steadfastly stayed in the game riding the roller-coaster of the ratings game.

The Bay Area stations that have tried to do Top 40 did not do nearly enough of this and as a result, have failed. No one has seriously invested the time, high-energy and money that it takes to succeed in this market. I still think it can work if someone does it right.
 
You really think street teams matter any more? How many people can you touch a month, a few thousand? This is nothing compared to the web hits some of them get...in one's case almost a million a month. I am not so sure that street promotion is still of any great importance to the under 35 crowd.
 
I've wondered if the big radio corporations have decided that billboards are no longer such a great advertising medium. It seems like there are a lot less radio station billboards the last 2 or 3 years. And when you do see radio ads on billboards, they tend to be the same old ads over and over ad-nauseum. You know, those same "Relax" ads for KKSF, that same Kiss-FM billboard with Renel and Marvin Gaye. etc.

Given that Clear Channel and CBS own all the billboards in the Bay Area, they can advertise at minimal expense - certainly it has to be a lot less expensive than advertising on TV stations or print publications they don't already own.
 
DavidEduardo said:
Actually, David, the charts, whether in Billboard, Cash Box, Gavin, Hamilton, R&R, Rudman, or other places were a reference. Most larger market stations looked at sales of 45's and juke box plays, play on individual stations they respected in other markets, but relied very little on the national charts for anythingg except verification.
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Yes, of course, but the result is the same. I pointed to the Billboard survey in my post because I don't know of any top 40 stations in existence, especially ones that issue weekly charts. I'm trying to show that the top sellers are all over the place genre-wise. My point is that if no station will make up a playlist of the most popular songs today.

In ye olden days, as has been pointed out before, we had local hits such as "Mill Valley" and the song "We’re The 49ers" (featuring Roger Craig, Dwight Clark and Ronnie Lott) played faithfully on KFRC. I doubt they even brushed 110 on Billboard's Hot 100. I can't imagine any commercial station playing either of those songs today. It would be cool if todays' "KFRC" did this.
 
Lkeller said:
Given that Clear Channel and CBS own all the billboards in the Bay Area, they can advertise at minimal expense - certainly it has to be a lot less expensive than advertising on TV stations or print publications they don't already own.
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Interesting you should mention this. Mel Karmazin specifically said that he bought a billboard company so that CBS could sell visuals as well as audio in order to compete better against TV. He said that radio in itself was not growing and he couldn't see any other way to compete.
 
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