Sangean Radios

[rbrucecarter5]

AM stereo is DEAD. It's a failed technology. No new radios are being manufactured by any of the well known manufacturers. AM stereo can be equated to the old RCA needle in disc Video discs

The Sangean HDT-1X is being manufactured with C-Quam AM stereo compatibility, in addition to HD capability on AM. So your statement is not true. AM stereo is still being manufactured.

AM stereo is not a failed technology. It works very well. I have had static free wideband stereo reception 290 miles from the station. It simply failed to catch on with consumers.

 

[R.F. Burns]

AM stereo is DEAD. It's a failed technology. No new radios are being manufactured by any of the well known manufacturers. AM stereo can be equated to the old RCA needle in disc Video discs

The Sangean HDT-1X is being manufactured with C-Quam AM stereo compatibility, in addition to HD capability on AM. So your statement is not true. AM stereo is still being manufactured.

AM stereo is not a failed technology. It works very well. I have had static free wideband stereo reception 290 miles from the station. It simply failed to catch on with consumers.

The HDT-1X is NOT being manufactured with full C-Quam capability. It can receive some C-Quam, as can my HDT-1 (I have both radios), it's a byproduct of the HD decoder. Sangean is not licensed to produce a C-Quam radio.I stand by my statement, there are NO radios manufactured for AM stereo. If you truly believe that analog AM stereo has any future you are only fooling yourself. IN NYC, there are NO AM stereo stations on the air. The closest AM stereo operation we have is a Danbury Ct station. Those AM stereo exciters make great door stops.

 

[Play Freebird]

AM stereo is DEAD. It's a failed technology. No new radios are being manufactured by any of the well known manufacturers. AM stereo can be equated to the old RCA needle in disc Video discs

I've never quite understood why so many of the stations that had installed AM stereo gear were so quick to shut it off. Did it raise operating expenses significantly?

Keep in mind that FM HD adds a lot to a transmitter facility's operating budget, due to the decrease in efficiency. This week, I'm installing a low-level combined transmitter with a licensed TPO of 2.1 kw, but it pulls 8.6 kW from the utility lines. It's in an air-conditioned room, so figure another kilowatt or two, on average, to get rid of the waste heat. In addition to the bigger power bill, stations using "space combining" or a separate port on a master antenna may be obligated to pay more rent to the site owner. Plus, I know several broadcasters that had to replace their economical 950 MHz STLs with leased T1 lines, which are costing an additional $5,000/year.

Aren't ongoing payments to iBiquity required to keep the encoder functioning?

When I hear the argument that "HD will never be turned off, because the equipment is already paid for", I have my doubts.

Also, does anyone know what happens to this wonderful proprietary system if iBiquity goes out of business? They've assured me that will never happen, but aren't they the sole source for software?

 

[JohnnyElectron]

RFBurns wrote: "...there are NO radios manufactured for AM stereo..." I beg to differ with you, but Fanfare makes one hell of a great radio that is a CQuam tuner (FTA100), and both of my Chryslers decode AM stereo.
Go here for more info on the Fanfare tuner (using a narrowbandwidth RS loop antenna) :
http://www.fanfarefm.com/soundbites.html

 

[hipporadio]

Well, obviously, I’m NOT an IBOC advocate – but I do have a favorable impression of Sangean radios. I doubt they pay anyone to pass-along accolades about their products. In fact, they appear to be far-more savvy in their technical pursuits then they are in marketing. Outside of the portable SWL community [which they appear to be drifting away from], they have had very little brand-name presence in the broader marketplace. C Crane made a major contribution to their name gaining notoriety... They were better-established as an OEM producer then a Sony-esque brand name.

Interestingly, they have several products that have earned top distinction: Their DT200V is BY-FAR the best-performing “Walkmann-style” personal pocket radio; The C Crane Sonido [also branded as Sangean’s PR-D4VW] is tops in the under-$100 utility radio class; and the WR-2 is an awesome and classy contender in the premium table radio contest. The WR-2 offers the best AM sensitivity and audio quality of ANY recently-manufactured digitally-tuned radio. I own both the DT200V and WR-2, and couldn’t be more satisfied! In the case of the versatile high-performance WR-2, I can’t imagine spending an additional $100 for a LOWER-PERFORMING “HD radio”!

I have not put my hands on Sangean’s touted HDT-1/1x... Usually, I wouldn’t be able to resist such a tuner for its ANALOG properties alone, but SORRY – I’m not about to literally write a $50 check to iNiquity for their “royalty” demand! HD radio OFFERS NOTHING, so I’m practicing the 100-level Marketing that I preach and passing my-own judgment in the marketplace. I did spend an afternoon with Sangean’s HDR-1 HD table radio... NO real complaints aside from the recurrent observations of MANY others that HD FM signals are anemic and undependable. In the analog world, the HDR-1 seems to be an outstanding FM radio [especially in adjacent-channel selectivity], and better-than-the-average-bear on AM [I was not in an area with HD AM availability when I evaluated that radio]. It is NOT worth it’s $250 price, though... The WR-2 is a higher-powered better value at over ONE-HUNDRED DOLLARS LESS!

 

[Chuck]

First, I am a fan of Sangean products. I've never been disappointed. But that's just me. Ask the average consumer and you will find they have never heard of it. The same goes for C. Crane. These products are for radio geeks like us. The public doesn't know about them. What's more, they don't really care.

 

[R.F. Burns]

RFBurns wrote: "...there are NO radios manufactured for AM stereo..." I beg to differ with you, but Fanfare makes one hell of a great radio that is a CQuam tuner (FTA100), and both of my Chryslers decode AM stereo.
Go here for more info on the Fanfare tuner (using a narrowbandwidth RS loop antenna) :
http://www.fanfarefm.com/soundbites.html

If a tree falls in the forrest.... I live in the largest radio market in the country and there are NO AM stereo stations in NY. The closest AM stereo station is about 60 miles from me in Danbury Ct. As far as a fanfare radio. Where can I buy it locally? I can find a handfull of different HD models in my local stores, but Cam-D, FM-Xtra and AM stereo radios are just not available. Your chrysler must be an old radio. I know at one time they did include AM stereo radios, but my 2008 Honda doesn't, nor have any of my cars going back to the late 70's. There are already many times more AM HD stations in the NY market than there ever were AM stereo facilities. I don't believe AM stereo has much of a future, but FM HD is here to stay.

 

[Tom Wells]

AM stereo is DEAD. It's a failed technology. No new radios are being manufactured by any of the well known manufacturers. AM stereo can be equated to the old RCA needle in disc Video discs

At least AM stereo was agile enough to not trip over its own feet, AND COMPATIBLE, without adding pollution to the signal.

Why don't we add dirt or nasty flavors into public drinking water? Because it's all about purity. Analog AM RF detection cannot hide this
impurity anywhere unless the audio response is intentionally handicapped, which I will not accept, because I know better, and have enjoyed a
far higher AM audio standard my entire life. I will give up my standards when I DIE, because Valpo Tech had such a strong influence in my beliefs.

If iBOC is an improvement, you will certainly enjoy hobbling other technologies similarly.
I suggest pulling off one or two spark plug wires on your auto engine so you can enjoy a lowered standard of performance expectation.
If you really like the sound of HD AM, I have a nice window box-fan I could send you to set in front your radio so even analog stations could have that
reconstituted-from-chunks sound.

 

[JohnnyElectron]

RFBurns wrote: "...Your chrysler must be an old radio..."

Yep, goes 'way back' to my 2001 PT Cruiser!

 

[R.F. Burns]

Again, who care if there are no stations to listen to. Analog AM stereo was a great idea whne it was first conceived. I will say again, I am not sure how AM HD will work in the marketplace, when all is said and done. The future of AM broadcasting in the US is very uncertain. AM stereo is for all intense and purposes, a dead technology. Hanging on to it is equivelent to those who instisted that cylinder recording was far superior to lateral discs.

 

[Dighton Rockhead]

As far as a fanfare radio. Where can I buy it locally? I can find a handfull of different HD models in my local stores, but Cam-D, FM-Xtra and AM stereo radios are just not available.

Does anyone know what (if anything) is happening over at DRE?? Logically, one would think that they would be trying to move heaven and earth to push out FmExtra as quickly as possible (especially as a low cost alternative to the smaller operators)......but nothing much seems to be going on.

It would seem DRE is letting a golden opportunity slip-slide away, especially considering that FmExtra can live quite happily alongside IBOC on FM.

If they were smart about this, they would be selling this as a workable way for AM stations to successfully migrate to digital......by moving to the FmExtra portion of an FM signal. It would appear to have a better chance of actually working well than the AM version of IBOC.

 

[Megapsycle]

The HDT-1X is NOT being manufactured with full C-Quam capability. It can receive some C-Quam, as can my HDT-1 (I have both radios), it's a byproduct of the HD decoder. Sangean is not licensed to produce a C-Quam radio.I stand by my statement, there are NO radios manufactured for AM stereo. If you truly believe that analog AM stereo has any future you are only fooling yourself. IN NYC, there are NO AM stereo stations on the air. The closest AM stereo operation we have is a Danbury Ct station. Those AM stereo exciters make great door stops.

I can verify that while the HDT-1 does indeed do something when tuned to a C-QUAM station, stereo is isn't. Sounds more like out of phase audio with a roll-off of the highs when it switches. I recall this was explained on another board that the low freq pilot of C-QUAM is close enough to some component of IBOC that it makes the tuner switch to some oddball mode but not true C-QUAM. Before WBAP here in Dallas finally switched off their C-QUAM the first of Nov '07, when I would tune to that station with my HDT-1 within a few seconds I could hear the audio degrade. It did not do that on a non C-QUAM-non IBOC, i.e., plain old mono station.

 

[R.F. Burns]

As far as a fanfare radio. Where can I buy it locally? I can find a handfull of different HD models in my local stores, but Cam-D, FM-Xtra and AM stereo radios are just not available.

Does anyone know what (if anything) is happening over at DRE?? Logically, one would think that they would be trying to move heaven and earth to push out FmExtra as quickly as possible (especially as a low cost alternative to the smaller operators)......but nothing much seems to be going on.

It would seem DRE is letting a golden opportunity slip-slide away, especially considering that FmExtra can live quite happily alongside IBOC on FM.

If they were smart about this, they would be selling this as a workable way for AM stations to successfully migrate to digital......by moving to the FmExtra portion of an FM signal. It would appear to have a better chance of actually working well than the AM version of IBOC.

I believe FMeXtra is being sold as a IBOC compatible subcarrier generator. I don't know of any stand alone FMeXtra stations

 

[hipporadio]

At least AM stereo was agile enough to not trip over its own feet, AND COMPATIBLE, without adding pollution to the signal.

...And it offered decent audio quality, Tom – MUCH better then the current “swishy” below-PodCast quality of iNiquity’s current science-fair project and LOW-bandwidth offering via “HD” radio!

Motorola’s C-QUAM was a compromise – I was a fan of the HARRIS system, but “Big-M” was better than NOTHING, and I wished that a better “sales job” on the consumer electronics biz could have occurred... NO DOUBT, “FCC complacency” was a factor - and PLEASE DON’T place blame on Uncle Lenny : ... Before you try—consider the wretched and near-insane “Magnavox Decision”! All that aside, I was willing to “go there” with respect to C-QUAM... Embroiled in the FCC's TOTAL LACK of regulatoy leadership, that system never happened – SAD! AM radio would NO DOUBT be better-off today IF millions of C-QUAM-enabled receivers were alive-'n-well and in the hands of those who could look beyond the “FM paradigm” and enjoy CONTENT they might appreciate on the AM band.

The “Boulevard so-called Engineers” here continue to cast-aside ANY technical fundamental for NO reason – other than to just “apologize” for and support Corporate Radio’s HD stepchild – as senseless as it is! EARTH-to-satellite—IT’S OVER HD pundents... Move on to actually solving a problem before the AM band is relegated to the remote control of thermostats or industrial bugler alarms!

 

[JohnnyElectron]

hipporadio - you're right about the Harris AM Stereo system. CKLW sounded unbelievable with Harris stereo AM. I have an off the air recording of a CKLW promo, and it sounds better than any FM on the Detroit dial at the time!

 

[hipporadio]

HARRIS AM-Stereo was a “hi-five”... It sounded great; had a minimal effect on coverage; DID NOT present interference to existing allocations; and was the-most compatible system to that AM upgrade known as synchronous-detection. IT FAILED to earn its fair shot... Thanks FCC : The AM band had options, but they never seized-upon them - nor did the CE community - I'm crying! IBOC “HD” IS NOT an option... ‘Game nearly OVER for the GranDaddy of radio... What a shame!