Satrad Runs in the Black...Why Can't HD?

[dumber than a box of hair]

A curious observation this morning (5/5) from the editors of Radio Business Report/Television Business Report, commenting on the story that SiriusXM has finally had a profitable quarter:

"...HD Radio is hoping for exactly the same effect—having the factory units in most every car whether they are new or used. Problem is the programming choices still do not match Sirius XM (running AM sister stations and copycat formats of the HD-1 signal will just not do). When a big market can add up all of its HD-2, 3, and now 4 channels and those formats in a list resemble the XM Sirius variety (especially music geared toward young car buyers) as close as humanly possible, HD Radio will have a good shot at competing (at least until all cars have internet streaming in the dash!)."

 

[mmnassour]

What a joke.

How long until a majority of ALL vehicles are HD-equipped? I thought so.

Until there are reliable HD receivers in cars (impossible according to some), it isn't going to happen. If no one listens, how can you make money at it?

 

[jras20]

HD Radio is not reliable for me any more. Can't use it in my truck or traveling. Analog shines where HD does not. I really have no use for it. All though I really love the sangean hd1x tuner. I just have it forced analog which works really well.

 

[Play Freebird]

Yesterday, I had the opportunity to check mobile HD reception of WQNY, Ithaca, NY along NY Rt 17 in the Elmira/Corning area. According to the FCC database, WQNY is now operating at -14 dBc digital power:

https://licensing.fcc.gov/cdbs/CDBS...?appn=101358845&qnum=5030&copynum=1&exhcnum=2

As expected, the extra 6 dB of digital power is still insufficient to overcome significant terrain obstructions within WQNY's predicted 60 dBu contour. On the east side of Elmira, I lost digital decode on the entire portion of the highway southeast of the Rt 13 exit. And from about 2 miles east of Corning to the Rt 15 exit at Painted Post (and at most locations within the City of Corning), the digital signal dropped out so much that it was unlistenable. Yet, FM analog reception was still acceptable in Corning, even in stereo on a Sangean portable.

Along the open stretch of Rt 17 between Big Flats and Horseheads near the airport and shopping malls, WQNY's digital was OK, but that's what I would expect in this type of terrain.

For those of you unfamiliar with the area, here's WQNY's predicted coverage map -- the red contour is 60 dBu:

http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=WQNY&service=FM&status=L&hours=U

 

[R.F. Burns]

I don't questio\n your findings but I have to ask you, how do you now that they are running higher power at the moment? Have you called the stations? Just because they've been granted an STA doesn't mean much. Heer in NYC WBLS is now running IBOC and they must be running higher powered IBOC because I can listen to them with very few dropouts uisng my Zune attached to my car via a 1/8 inch aux input cable. The new laws go into effect this coming Monday. I want to see if i notice any changes to my local IBOC stations. When I first bought the Zune I had trouble using it in the mobile environment. Today I can receive IBOC stations much more solidly than a fe months ago. By the way, the radio Locator maps are for entertainment only. They don't really reflect real life coverage.

 

[RadeoEngineer]

This can't possibly work until receivers are given a 6-10dB increase too. There is a classic mismatch going on here folks. (Where is that sarcasm smiley?)

 

[Play Freebird]

I don't questio\n your findings but I have to ask you, how do you now that they are running higher power at the moment? Have you called the stations? Just because they've been granted an STA doesn't mean much.

WQNY's HD equipment was just recently turned on (about the same time the STA was granted) so it's a pretty good bet that their system was designed for elevated digital power from the start. But if it makes you feel better, I'll call and ask them. Or I can check injection on my spectrum analyzer.

By the way, the radio Locator maps are for entertainment only. They don't really reflect real life coverage.

I did say predicted coverage (i.e. the FCC F50,50 method, the basis for Radio Locator's maps) but I agree this is an obsolete and inaccurate propagation model. But then again, the FCC contours remain the determining legal factor for interference complaints. If a station is affected by digital interference outside its "protected" contour, regardless of its real coverage, the FCC isn't likely to take action.

 

[OKCRadioGuy]

The FCC and it's curves are for entertainment purposes only. They are sort of like a stand up commedian. They stand up and we all can get a big 'ol bellylaugh.

 

[pocket-radio]

Playing what we want to a mass audience is out. HD is part of the old game, the world is changing boys..

I agree the power increase offers hope to HD supporters and IBiquity but what's lacking is emotional engagement from consumers. Millions of iphones, ipods and now ipads had been sold. And if we believe IBiquity a million HD radios have been sold.

Fix the system.. fix the content and programming... but without emotions and engagement by consumers who really cares..

Factory installed internet in your car... will make Hybrid Digital Radio obsolete.

 

[nd2023]

If iBiquity wants HD radio to take off, pay Apple millions to include an HD radio in every iPod, iPhone, and iPad sold. Portable HD radio is now technically feasible, unlike when the iPod and HD Radio first came out. Better yet, for the iPhones, sync up a web stream with the HD2 stream, that way when the HD drops out, the stream won't drop out on the iPhone, and vice versa.

 

[RadeoEngineer]

Better yet, for the iPhones, sync up a web stream with the HD2 stream, that way when the HD drops out, the stream won't drop out on the iPhone, and vice versa.

Great. Something else to worry about keeping in time synch not to mention more compression schemes to deal with. Sorry, but I see it as instead of trying to make it work forget it and move on.

 

[mmnassour]

Rube Goldberg, your radio system has arrived!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rube_Goldberg_machine

 

[TheBigA]

If iBiquity wants HD radio to take off, pay Apple millions to include an HD radio in every iPod, iPhone, and iPad sold.

That's what it will take. To compare HD to satellite ignores the fact that the satellite companies paid hundreds of millions of dollars to get their radios installed as standard equipment in all new cars. Since HD isn't mandated, the car companies won't install it without the same deal. And iBiquity simply doesn't have the money. Truthfully, neither does satellite, but they did it anyway. As I've said before, it doesn't matter what programming is available, how cool the radios are, or how great the marketing is. At the end of the day, the radios need to be standard equipment. Otherwise no one's going to listen.

 

[LynnW]

iNiquity doesn't have the kind of money it would take to change Jobs' mind. Apple is sitting on $40,000,000,000 in cash reserves.

 

[pocket-radio]

With an iphone or similar cloned device you already have digital radio and you can listen to anything you want..
You can choose from thousands and thousands of digital streams, or simply pick your own music Pandora style.. So who needs HD?

 

[audioguy]

Pocket,

I am missing my WNIU classical service, now that WRTW has wiped them out. Do you know of any apps for the BlackBerry that would pick up their Internet stream? Then I could listen to my favorite classical station again, wherever I am (including the car). I haven't found anything so far.

My company pays for the BlackBerry service, and the data service is "unlimited". It's an AT&T phone. So wherever they have service, I could get "HD" radio. (ha ha)...

 

[tomservo]

So who needs HD?

I dunno, people on the go? I have never gotten more than a few miles listening to an internet stream on my cell phone. And I've never heard of anyone being able to ride the train or whatever and get a clean, uninterrupted music feed, even on 3G.

Am I missing something? (Not that HD works seamlessly, but… )

 

[mmnassour]

iNiquity doesn't have the kind of money it would take to change Jobs' mind. Apple is sitting on $40,000,000,000 in cash reserves.

Not to mention the fact that the hardware needed for HD would destroy the style of the Apple devices and the power needed would suck the battery life out of them. We'll see CC flip all stations to classical before "HD" appears on an Apple device.

 

[pocket-radio]

So who needs HD?

I dunno, people on the go? I have never gotten more than a few miles listening to an internet stream on my cell phone. And I've never heard of anyone being able to ride the train or whatever and get a clean, uninterrupted music feed, even on 3G.

Am I missing something? (Not that HD works seamlessly, but… )

I agree it's not perfect, if the Obama admin as their way a time will come when it will be. So in the mean time fire up your HD radio. So long as you don't stray to far from the the transmitter site you'll be in good shape. Just excuse the dropouts. Other than that, carry an extra long wire with you all all times.. . LOL

 

[Savage]

Quoth BigA: "the radios need to be standard equipment. Otherwise nobody's going to listen."

Amen. And - people have to be ABLE to listen. I think a fair assessment is, HD Radio doesn't work well enough or reliably enough for people to listen digitally - even if they're so inclined. Or even if they're aware of HD Radio at all.

It's been several months since the latest "gimme" handed iBiquity and The Alliance by the FCC - in the form of the digital power hike. So where's the predicted stampede of FMs cranking up?

I haven't seen an actual HD Radio in a local store in many months, with the exception of a handful of aftermarket car receivers. (And we all know how well THOSE sell these days.)