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Saving AM Radio

That's fine for your situation David. But to make fun or denigrate someone who goes to college as a whole because their one unique example of a momentary lapse of common sense, is an example of what's wrong with our society these days; too much labeling and denigrating people who might not be like them. And, no coincidence, his example of a college education being useless was a woman
I agree that college is of great benefit for many.

But there are exceptions:
  • Those whose high school training is inadequate. There should be a formal system to make up for the deficient secondary education systems that are more and more prevalent in the U.S.
  • Those who are not going to benefit due to their mental skills; I mean those who would be better in more hands-on fields.
  • Those that pick majors that have no practical life benefit. I believe that some majors, such as "Greek Literature" should be minors or post-grad options. (Allow such subjects to be minors, but not the product of four years of a person's undergraduate life).
I've been in too many classes that were restrained and made excruciatingly boring by students who should not have been there at that particular level. Those students would have benefitted more from a different area of study or training.

One of my daughters has four law degrees from three different countries and one U.S. Territory. She has benefitted enormously from this, as she practices international law (she also speaks and writes in five languages, so she has me beat in many areas).
 
Me neither. There is no required script for stations running a weekly test. The national test comes with a script down the line explaining what the test is all about, but that's about it.
Of course, the weekly test has only the purpose of making sure that the system in each station works.

In the later 70's I did an EBS test which had the intro and close done in an acapella choral style and in rhyme. The test tone began with a high-school recorder playing Mary Had a Little Lamb and ending with the actual tone. That earned me a notice from the FCC saying that the tone of the test was inappropriate.
 
But how would the phone distinguish from isolation (a camper in a forest where there is no signal) or an actual emergency.

Could be combined status messages on 1 screen:

No Cell Signal

AM Radio may be useful in this situation

((Learn more about AM Radio)) <- Icon activated by touch, has a paragraph or 2 of text about AM Radio and how to receive it.


Kirk Bayne
 
Satellite radio covers all those hundreds of miles and more and with a listenable signal. If you are afraid of not being in communication with the world use that. When you object to the cost of satellite, I'll counter with "you're not really all that concerned about the mythical emergency you pretend AM radio will save you from".
That's a very interesting point.
 
That's a very interesting point.
At present, satellite teleophone service is expensive and requires "open sky" to work. The under-development expansion of Musk's satellite text and messaging is being rolled out now under a limited test and might be followed by a phone system. But, as Jerry Pournelle used to say in that old computer magazine, "real soon now".

On the other hand, the existing systems require antennas and are not what you'd call "mobile". Our participant Paul in Alaska uses them and can tell us more about how "moving around the planet" with one will not be easy.
 
am radio music will save it if the music is there they will listen Glenn miller or Joe loss I want to buy a station to save am radio I have a GE it is a tank sounds great want a video? even my grandson has liked it… nobody makes it right 2024
 
Keep in mind that phones aren't made in US. They're made in China for an international market. AM radio doesn't exist in many other countries. The only reason they had an FM chip was for Asian use. Not in the US. But you're expecting Chinese manufacturers to do something it doesn't have to do.
OK, but the Chinese manufacturers like Foxcomm et al only manufacture the hardware. The actual design of the devices, as well as the firmware used to run the devices is programmed by Apple, Google (Android), etc. -- in the US, mostly, and/or under US corporate control
 
As for college degrees, they're one and only one data point in determining whether a job candidate is appropriate for the job. It's silly to refuse to hire anyone who IS a college graduate, and it's silly to refuse to hire anyone who isn't, too.

Hire the person, not the resume.
The AI bot in charge of HR these days will determine that. :cool:
 
OK, but the Chinese manufacturers like Foxcomm et al only manufacture the hardware. The actual design of the devices, as well as the firmware used to run the devices is programmed by Apple, Google (Android), etc. -- in the US, mostly, and/or under US corporate control
That is true for the US, but there are a number of Chinese brands that are widely available and used in Latin America, Africa and much of the Arab world and some of Southeast Asia.


There are some I never have heard of, even in my travels in Latin America where most are common.
 
That's the way EAS already works. Local stations EAS decoders are set up to automatically forward alerts from local authorities, FEMA, NWS, or iPAWS. That includes live alerts.
Are we thinking about different kinds of live alerting? My understanding of the existing EAS topography is this. Say an origination point like county OES sends out an alert that's read and transmitted live. Say it gets transmitted on some county-wide VHF frequency like 158.565 MHz, by a hardline to the nearest NOAA 162 MHz transmitter, and by two microwave point-to-point links to the local LP1 and LP2 stations. When that happens, the LP1, LP2, and 162 MHz broadcast signals will contain/relay that live OES alert message as it is originating live from the OES. But if no other broadcasters in the county have direct VHF/microwave/wireline links from the county OES, then their EAS receivers will record that alert, while it is live, from either the LP1 or LP2 or 162 MHz signals, and wait until it finishes being broadcast before turning around and initiating their own non-live replays. That's my understanding of EAS -- that if an originator chooses to speak live, their voice will be live to the public, but it will only be heard live by any listeners listening via the main arterial distribution link-connected broadcasters ... that all other listeners down the chain will get replays in a store-and-forward cascade.

That said, what I meant by live in my original post was this. Imagine the same scenario as above (live transmission from OES, relayed live by the NOAA/LP1/LP2 stations). But when the OES originator sends his EOM tones, the NOAA, LP1, and LP2 EAS receivers see an extra command embedded in them saying "when these EOM tones finish playing a.k.a. when you finish relaying these EOM tones live to air, don't cut back to your local station audio; instead, stay in interrupt mode, and start relaying audio from the 'live augmented emergency audio' baseband audio input on your back panel." And connected to that input on those stations' EAS receivers is the baseband audio output from some wideband FM 450 MHz broadcast auxiliary band receiver that just listens 24/7 to, say, 450.2 MHz, which is a high level mountaintop transmitter over which the OES sends out its live, continuous audio broadcasts of the nature I described in my original post. Any other broadcasters storing-and-forwarding the NOAA/LP1/LP2 stations' live-relayed alerts would stop recording upon the EOM tones, to make sure they didn't keep recording the 450 MHz passthrough audio when it began on the 162/LP1/LP2 stations following the EOM tones. Those other broadcasters' EAS boxes would, during their replays, notice the same "switch to your 450 MHz receiver after these EOM tones" command embedded in those EOM tones, and they'd do so. And so it would go, down the cascade.

If this is what you meant EAS can already do re: live audio, then I'm sorry I just made you read all this. When I first got into the weeds of how EAS worked two decades ago, it didn't have the ability to work this way. I just pictured this method in my mind because I felt it would be the best+simplest way to augment EAS for long-form live takeover of automated stations. If there weren't a separate, dedicated 450 MHz type frequency to convey the "live all day long" post-initial-alert OES audio, then that audio would have needed to have been distributed in a cascading style (OES > LP1 > some FM station > some cable company). In that case, LP1 and "some FM station" would get trapped into acting as perpetual ham repeaters and not able to resume their regular programming or else "some cable company" would lose its live audio source. The way I pictured it, with a separate venue for the "live all day long" audio (like 450), any stations that had 24/7 staffs and didn't want themselves taken over in this way could just flip a switch on their EAS boxes to tell them "ignore when the EOM orders you to stay in interrupt mode and switch to your 450 input -- just give back control to the DJ right away, like you always did."

The problem is that local municipalities typically don't train, let alone drill on activating EAS.
While a few agencies have outstanding communications skills (usually because they've hired former broadcasters), the vast majority just don't. Briefings aren't frequent enough, they're full of institution-speak instead of clear writing, and very few have any sense of how to deliver quality video and audio to broadcasters. They're in no position to deliver the kind of clear and constant messaging that would be needed if you're going to expect them to take over the airwaves of local broadcasters for an extended chunk of time.
I've noticed this ever since EAS was first deployed, yeah. It's a real problem even with the short alerts that exist now. Besides coherent public addressing skills, some of the emergency alerts I've heard had only slightly better intelligibility and fidelity than the drive-up order kiosk in that old "Fast Food" track by Stevens & Grdnic.

In my original post, I suggested that the origination point for this theoretical "live all day long" service would be a single county OES point -- and that having a few employees to man that cubicle (one per shift) would be enough to allow patching in other feeds, on top of the one on duty narrating and speaking to the public him/herself. I guess when I imagined that, I also imagined that somebody would give them proper mics, a proper acoustic booth, and training.

When the you know what hits the fan, local emergency services usually are spending time trying to save lives on the ground, not worrying about who might be listening to radio.
I get it, Kelly, but in the immediate timeframe, there are still enough people living without smartphones (primarily elderly) to make it worth one person per shift's time to have training in manning a basic booth at one emergency office per county in the event of turbo-emergencies. When the cable system and the copper landline go out to someone's grandmother's rural home and she's sitting in her wingchair with a battery radio trying to find information, and can only get George Noory and automated classic country stations, that's a problem. I just think we need at least one more generation to pass before there's enough modern technology uptake to definitively say emergency alerts over linear radio/TV matter as much as putting them on WWV. And moreover, if the turbo-emergency in question is something that takes out the cellular network, those radios will be what everybody, not just the Luddite elderly, will be searching for information on. So maybe they'll always matter to keep and augment as best as possible on linear.
 
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That is true for the US, but there are a number of Chinese brands that are widely available and used in Latin America, Africa and much of the Arab world and some of Southeast Asia.


There are some I never have heard of, even in my travels in Latin America where most are common.
The only one I was unfamiliar with was Gionee, but all the others are well known among those who follow the cell phone industry. Points out that customers in the U.S. lack many phone options; all we usually see is Apple, Samsung, Pixel and Motorola. Many alternatives have disappeared from U.S. outlets in recent years.

There are yet more brands out there if you do some digging, but their presence in the U.S. is essentially nonexistent.
 
And we have to remember that events like 9/11 and the 1994 LA earthquake did not result in an EAS activation. And that is because, after the effect of such an incident, there is nothing more people can be told that requires all media to be activated.
I think those were actually different.

9/11 would have merited a nationwide "evacuate all skyscrapers" activation upon the second plane impact. But it was simply that planes pummeling skyscrapers was so dramatic, no ratio station anywhere, and no channel on any cable system, hadn't already begun relaying live coverage by the time EAS would have been the logical next move. It wasn't too late to be of use on 9/11, it was simply mooted.
 
In the later 70's I did an EBS test which had the intro and close done in an acapella choral style and in rhyme. The test tone began with a high-school recorder playing Mary Had a Little Lamb and ending with the actual tone. That earned me a notice from the FCC saying that the tone of the test was inappropriate.
The philistines. :)
 
OK, but the Chinese manufacturers like Foxcomm et al only manufacture the hardware. The actual design of the devices, as well as the firmware used to run the devices is programmed by Apple, Google (Android), etc. -- in the US, mostly, and/or under US corporate control

For use in the international market. These companies refused to activate FM. They're not going to voluntarily direct their customers to AM.
 
For use in the international market. These companies refused to activate FM. They're not going to voluntarily direct their customers to AM.
And FM could only be activated on phones that had earphone jacks, as there is no way to put an FM capable antenna inside the size and shape of today's cellular phones. And an AM antenna is an order of magnitude larger.

Note that pocket and portable radios have a telescoping FM antenna, not an internal one. Unexpended, they only work with very powerful and nearby signals and only if the receiver case is plastic. The metal cases of cellular phones could not do that.
 
And FM could only be activated on phones that had earphone jacks, as there is no way to put an FM capable antenna inside the size and shape of today's cellular phones. And an AM antenna is an order of magnitude larger.

The issue here is whether a cell phone manufacturer will voluntarily direct users to AM radio. Given that prior experience, I have no reason to believe those companies have any interest in directing users of their phones to AM radio or any other service.
 
The issue here is whether a cell phone manufacturer will voluntarily direct users to AM radio. Given that prior experience, I have no reason to believe those companies have any interest in directing users of their phones to AM radio or any other service.
Is it necessary to "direct" every aspect of a human life? Let's assume the power is out, the cell tower is down and we're out of matches. Will a person of reasonable intelligence who is looking for information, not dial around their radio until they find a listenable signal, even without a dummy light on their cell phone telling them that "although thought to be extinct, AM radio is on the air somewhere and transmitting something during this emergency". I think this is a lot of talk about nothing of importance.
 
That is true for the US, but there are a number of Chinese brands that are widely available and used in Latin America, Africa and much of the Arab world and some of Southeast Asia.

There are some I never have heard of, even in my travels in Latin America where most are common.
Xiaomi was getting a lot of attention about 10 years ago. I was working for a company with operations in China at the time; we heard quite a bit from our colleagues in China about the number of brands on offer there. Xiaomi was considering entering the U.S. market at one time. However, they would've had to build relationships with the major U.S. mobile carriers, who dominate the market to an extent not generally seen in other countries.

The other brand that stood out to me on that list was Meizu. More than 15 years ago, I had a Meizu music player. I got it because it supported FLAC and Ogg Vorbis formats in addition to the usual MP3. It also had a built-in FM stereo radio and recording capability. The FM tuner suffered from various internal digital noises but worked well enough for local signals. I could also create presets with a simple text file. Computer uploads/downloads were easy; it identified as an MSC USB device. Some of the airchecks that I made of KFOG circa 2007 were made on that device. I still have it, but the battery won't hold a charge and so it's effectively nonfunctional now. A quick check of Amazon indicates that the Meizu name is practically nonexistent in the U.S. these days.

My Dutch family is enamored of Apple devices, so I can't really poll them to see what brands are currently in that marketplace.
 
That's the way EAS already works. Local stations EAS decoders are set up to automatically forward alerts from local authorities, FEMA, NWS, or iPAWS.
That includes live alerts.
I couldn't quite make out what was going on (major transmission line and substation nearby) but I heard both types of EAS tones the other day in the car. Then the station went back to playing music or maybe went to a commercial without any announcement about "this is a test" or anything like that. It was a little early for any real emergency since Helene was a long way off, but there were severe thunderstorms later in the day.
 
am radio music will save it if the music is there they will listen Glenn miller or Joe loss I want to buy a station to save am radio I have a GE it is a tank sounds great want a video? even my grandson has liked it… nobody makes it right 2024

It does not matter whether or not there are others like yourself who will listen "if the music is there". Radio is still in the advertising business and -- as has been pointed out over and over in hundreds of threads across RD -- the audience for music from the Big Band era is not one that is saleable.

And before you claim that I am motivated by personal taste, I also like music from the Swing era. I just can't make a living programming it.
 


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