Saving AM Radio

[fybush]

You of all people know better, or should, and the tell is when you refer to the "AM Revitalization" project as "assisting AM radio station owners," because of course that's what it really was. It didn't prolong the life of AM, but it gave station owners an opportunity to jump ship to FM via translators, which did benefit many of them.

It didn't actually do much of anything to assist AM stations, because that's hopeless and everyone, including the owners of those stations, not to mention the rest of the world's broadcasters, knows it.

As a mostly captive regulatory agency, the FCC has a long history of following the lead of what the NAB wants, and that's what the small and medium broadcasters who make up most of the NAB on the radio side wanted, and it's what they got. I expect they'll get even more of it under Brendan Carr, if history is any guide.

Sure, it will be couched in all the flowery bullshit about "preserving a scarce public resource," but it's not a resource any broadcaster is spending money on in 2024. They couldn't give away a couple of more than decent facilities in St. Louis, and if that doesn't tell the true story, what does?

 

[TheBigA]

You of all people know better, or should, and the tell is when you refer to the "AM Revitalization" project as "assisting AM radio station owners,"

I've talked about that aspect a lot, so yes. I didn't say I like what he did. Just that he did it.

As a mostly captive regulatory agency, the FCC has a long history of following the lead of what the NAB wants

Perhaps, but the goal of the current administration is supposedly to be more of a populist agenda. At least that's how it was sold. To bypass the Washington lobbyists. That's why I purposely picked Pai and Carr. Carr says he wants to "rein in big tech." They have better (and richer) lobbyists than the radio people. We'll see how successful he is.

Sure, it will be couched in all the flowery bullshit about "preserving a scarce public resource," but it's not a resource any broadcaster is spending money on in 2024. They couldn't give away a couple of more than decent facilities in St. Louis, and if that doesn't tell the true story, what does?

I don't know. I'm reserving judgement on this new FCC until they take office. But on the surface at least, they're not talking about AM to "preserve the past," and that was the comment I was responding to. Brendan Carr seems to want to hold radio owners accountable to serve the public interest. At least that's what he's saying now. In any case, if people can't buy AM radios, that certainly doesn't help a public resource for which the FCC is responsible. My take is that the current radio owners would gladly abandon AM completely if they could just trade those licenses for FMs. So far, the FCC isn't ready to do that.

 

[Hyrum]

it's not the view of the FCC. It's why former FCC Chairman Ajit Pai came up with something he called the AM Revitalization Program.

The government has a place in assigning frequency and power. But other than that it needs to stand down and let the market work as markets will. The government saved AM with its fast response to AM stereo back in the 80s when too little too late made it ineffective. The government opened up the 1600-1700 band to save AM. That did nothing really. The government saved AM radio when it gave daytimers limited night time power. My favorite was the non defunct WINE 940 which had 1000 watts day and FOUR watts night. Why? Then they saved AM radio when they gave them translators which actually moved them off the AM band to FM where people still listen. This was helpful to an extent if we don't look at the flood of low power FM stations that now restrict the fringe area signals of full power licensed FM stations. One might wonder why they won't allow the broadcasters with translators to turn off the AM signal and save the electricity costs.

What they're trying to do is find value in that scarce public resource for the American people. They can't do that if the people can't access that resource.

The American people do and can buy anything they wish. I merely reject the notion that I have to pay even a slight extra cost for an FM radio because the government says the manufactures can't make that radio without including AM radio. The public has spoken that AM is not wanted. The number of stations going dark is getting longer every day. I completely reject the government "helping" AM owners if it means giving them one cent of my tax dollars to continue to broadcast something that is unnecessary. Again, if a broadcast is something people want, they will seek it out and make it popular and advertisers will flock to it. There is no need for my tax dollars to subsidize the AM broadcaster. If they feel broadcasting Gorge Noory on a thousand signals across the nation isn't working for them, turn it off. No one will notice. One reason broadcasters in whole are not making money is that there are too many pies and not enough advertisers to pay for all those pies. If AM dies, the good programming will find another outlet on FM or elsewhere. No one will miss AM if it is allowed to follow the logical course and die by the market place.
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If your next objection is that it's so sad that old Earl who bought Wxxx 20 years ago could loose his business. I'm sad for Earl too. But he knew that business is tricky. The restaurant down the street failed and that owner lost. We feel bad, but we can't subsidies every business because "it's sad" when they go belly up.

You speak of the lifetime of AM as finite, and that becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy if there are no AM radios for purchase.

It already is a prophecy that is being fulfilled but not because of a lack of radios. People are turning away from AM because they can't hear it. The signals suck. Yes I know WBBM, WABC and several others can be heard with just a bit of background noise. Honestly though, tune around. The bulk of the signals are really bad. I used to listen to Len Berman on WOR. I live perhaps 60 miles from the Jersey swamp where the transmitter is located and I listened at home on the internet because the directional signal of WOR is unlistenable here. Even when I leave in the car, I have to drive several miles before I can hear it at all, but certainly not clearly. AM is going to die. Period. The government can take my and your tax dollars to subsidize it, but it will still die and I object to the government intervention. Nothing will be lost when the last 50,000 watt transmitter is turned off for the last time. All the good stuff will move on to FM or the internet and all the other stuff will be exactly where it should be. (sorry George Noory)

 

[TheBigA]

The government has a place in assigning frequency and power. But other than that it needs to stand down and let the market work as markets will.

That's nice of you to say, but that hasn't been the policy of the government. The spectrum is a natural resource owned by the people, and managed by the government. That's the law. If the government wants to shut down AM radio, and stop licensing it, that's up to the government, not the market. I don't think the FCC has the power alone to make that decision. They'd likely have to get congress to act on it, and amend the communications act. We will see how congress feels about AM radio if it passes the AM In Every Vehicle Act.

The American people do and can buy anything they wish. I merely reject the notion that I have to pay even a slight extra cost for an FM radio because the government says the manufactures can't make that radio without including AM radio. The public has spoken that AM is not wanted.

That's not your decision to make. We don't live in a reality TV country where the people vote on all the decisions. We live in a representative democracy where the elected representatives make those decisions. So far, I don't see anything in the new administration that makes me believe they agree with you. As I said, the AM In Every Vehicle Act is a bipartisan bill with wide support from all sides. I'm not aware of any bill or any proposal about requiring AM in all devices.

If your next objection is that it's so sad that old Earl who bought Wxxx 20 years ago could loose his business. I'm sad for Earl too.

That's not my objection. That apparently was Ajit Pai's objection and why he proposed the AM Revitalization Plan. He wanted licensees to get something to keep their AM stations on the air. I thought it was a joke. The only benefit I saw to it was it created more income that the government could tax. But I also agree that AM owners knew what they were buying and the government shouldn't give them a replacement license. But that's how a conservative government responded. Not me. From what I see, Brendan Carr will continue that approach when he takes over. In fact, he's said he will take a more activist approach, and will seek to cancel a bankruptcy plan because an investor might silence conservative voices who are mostly on AM radio. That to me is far beyond the proper role of government, but that's just my opinion.

 

[Hyrum]

The spectrum is a natural resource owned by the people, and managed by the government. That's the law. If the government wants to shut down AM radio, and stop licensing it, that's up to the government, not the market.

Once again, that's not what I said. I said the government should stand down and let the marketplace decide if AM should live or die. I don't want intervention of the FCC to determine that an unsustainable and unnecessary service should survive with my tax dollars supporting it. (Yes I mean that toward PBS and its ilk too)

I don't think the FCC has the power alone to make that decision. They'd likely have to get congress to act on it, and amend the communications act. We will see how congress feels about AM radio if it passes the AM In Every Vehicle Act.

Let's hope economic sanity pervades and they do so. We don't need them to tell us we have to buy an FM AM radio when we want to save a few bucks and buy FM only. Repeal the legislation that requires AM in any car

That's not your decision to make. We don't live in a reality TV country where the people vote on all the decisions. We live in a representative democracy where the elected representatives make those decisions.

Thank you for the civics lesson. You clearly educate me and so many others who were unaware of the representative democracy. after listening to the "threat to democracy nonsense all election season long.

So far, I don't see anything in the new administration that makes me believe they agree with you. As I said, the AM In Every Vehicle Act is a bipartisan bill with wide support from all sides. I'm not aware of any bill or any proposal about requiring AM in all devices.

Maybe they will never repeal it. They probably don't want to anger the radio broadcasters who are hanging on to their nearly valueless AM investments

That's not my objection. That apparently was Ajit Pai's objection and why he proposed the AM Revitalization Plan. He wanted licensees to get something to keep their AM stations on the air. I thought it was a joke. The only benefit I saw to it was it created more income that the government could tax. But I also agree that AM owners knew what they were buying and the government shouldn't give them a replacement license. But that's how a conservative government responded. Not me. From what I see, Brendan Carr will continue that approach when he takes over. In fact, he's said he will take a more activist approach, and will seek to cancel a bankruptcy plan because an investor might silence conservative voices who are mostly on AM radio. That to me is far beyond the proper role of government, but that's just my opinion.

Something we agree upon. Again, let's let the marketplace decide what lives and dies.

 

[TheBigA]

Once again, that's not what I said. I said the government should stand down and let the marketplace decide if AM should live or die. I don't want intervention of the FCC to determine that an unsustainable and unnecessary service should survive with my tax dollars supporting it.

As I said, it's not your decision. The FCC is supposed to follow the law. They're not asking you to support it with tax money. AM stations are privately funded by advertising. That was by design. Advertisers are still supporting AM stations even though electronics manufacturers aren't.

Repeal the legislation that requires AM in any car

It hasn't been passed yet. The incoming party in power sees AM radio as a free speech issue, not a marketplace issue.

 

[vchimpanzee]

It's just silly to say AM is going to be gone in two years. Tell that to the listeners of WBBM or KCBS or WABC or WLW. I could go on but you won't listen.
We get it. You don't listen to AM. That's your choice but you don't have the right to mock those who do.
AM will still be here in two freaking years,
Period

I wish I had a way of finding the post on this site predicting whether America's Best Music would be around.

At this point I should mark this post to come back to in two years.

 

[davideduardo]

The government has a place in assigning frequency and power. But other than that it needs to stand down and let the market work as markets will. The government saved AM with its fast response to AM stereo back in the 80s when too little too late made it ineffective.

The government did not respond rapidly with AM stereo. And when they made a decision, they allowed legal proceedings to delay adoption for 4 long years, by which time AM was pretty much dead for music.

The government opened up the 1600-1700 band to save AM.

That was not the purpose. The objective was to allow a few really bad AM facilities to improve a bit. It affected about 100 stations out of 5,000.

The government saved AM radio when it gave daytimers limited night time power. My favorite was the non defunct WINE 940 which had 1000 watts day and FOUR watts night.

This was allowed, IIRC, with the overall change from set 250-500-1000-5000-10000-50000 watt levels to "any power that fits" levels. That let stations that could not even get 250 watts at night to get something. Many did not use those extremely low power allocations.

Then they saved AM radio when they gave them translators which actually moved them off the AM band to FM where people still listen. This was helpful to an extent if we don't look at the flood of low power FM stations that now restrict the fringe area signals of full power licensed FM stations.

And the fringe areas were never "guaranteed" coverage areas, so what stations did not have was accidental, not a promise.

One might wonder why they won't allow the broadcasters with translators to turn off the AM signal and save the electricity costs.

Now, then! That is actually a good idea.

One reason broadcasters in whole are not making money is that there are too many pies and not enough advertisers to pay for all those pies. If AM dies, the good programming will find another outlet on FM or elsewhere. No one will miss AM if it is allowed to follow the logical course and die by the market place.

A lot of stations, particularly daytimers, high band AMs and FMs in really small towns should not have been licensed. And, for the most part, those are the stations that don't make money.

It already is a prophecy that is being fulfilled but not because of a lack of radios. People are turning away from AM because they can't hear it. The signals suck. Yes I know WBBM, WABC and several others can be heard with just a bit of background noise. Honestly though, tune around. The bulk of the signals are really bad. I used to listen to Len Berman on WOR. I live perhaps 60 miles from the Jersey swamp where the transmitter is located and I listened at home on the internet because the directional signal of WOR is unlistenable here.

Yet that station designed its pattern in the 30's to cover both NYC and Philly. It ran ads promoting that in all the trade magazines.

It was our legislators who did not want... back in the days of the FRC... anyone to have a station that could be a voice of a whole region of the country. So they capped power at a very low 50,000 watts. The one exception they made, WLW, was eventually forced back to 50,000 watts. The issue here is politics, not a deficiency of AM.

I know of a market of about 20 million where there are a dozen successful AM stations. All are 50 kw or higher, and get significant ratings. There, the government realized that restricting power was not a service to the public.

AM is going to die. Period. The government can take my and your tax dollars to subsidize it, but it will still die and I object to the government intervention. Nothing will be lost when the last 50,000 watt transmitter is turned off for the last time. All the good stuff will move on to FM or the internet and all the other stuff will be exactly where it should be. (sorry George Noory)

The issue is really the availability of new sources. But nothing is like AM for emergency broadcasts and coverage of remote areas. The number of stations will decline, but the end of AM is not immediate.

For starters, look at all the ethnic communities that depend on AM stations for information in their preferred language and music that is part of their culture.

 

[CTListener]

But nothing is like AM for emergency broadcasts and coverage of remote areas.

How so, when only 10-15 percent of radio users ever listen to an AM station?

 

[MarioMania]

I don't know if giving AM Stations an FM was a Good or even Bad thing

 

[CTListener]

I don't know if giving AM Stations an FM was a Good or even Bad thing

Definitely a good thing for me here in Vermont. Up here, I wouldn't have a classic country station to listen to if WCNL 1010 Newport NH didn't have a Claremont translator on 94.7.

 

[TheBigA]

For starters, look at all the ethnic communities that depend on AM stations for information in their preferred language and music that is part of their culture.

I'm pretty sure that's not a consideration of Brendan Carr.

 

[BruceB]

I'm pretty sure that's not a consideration of Brendan Carr.

Mr. Carr appearing on Fox Business said he will take "a hard look at the petition by Mr. Soros to invest in 200 radio stations"
So here we go.

 

[TheBigA]

Mr. Carr appearing on Fox Business said he will take "a hard look at the petition by Mr. Soros to invest in 200 radio stations"
So here we go.

Here's what he said:

"Everybody now is going to get a fair shake going forward," Carr added. "There's a petition for [Soros] reconsideration pending at the FCC right now. And I want to take a very hard look at that."

The petition wasn't filed by Soros. It was filed by Brent Bozell. This is what he's talking about:

Conservative Group Petitions FCC To Rollback Approval Of Audacy Reorganization.

Brent Bozell’s Media Research Center, the conservative group that unsuccessfully tried to convince the FCC to reject Audacy’s bankruptcy reorganization plan, is not yet giving up. The group has filed

www.insideradio.com

 

[Hyrum]

The government did not respond rapidly with AM stereo. And when they made a decision, they allowed legal proceedings to delay adoption for 4 long years, by which time AM was pretty much dead for music.

agree

the overall change from set 250-500-1000-5000-10000-50000 watt levels to "any power that fits" levels. That let stations that could not even get 250 watts at night to get something. Many did not use those extremely low power allocations.

The change was mostly pointless for nighttime operation and that's why many didn't bother with it. The increase in daytime power coincided with the increase in noises that kind of evened out the limited signal troubles. Today's 10,000 watts seems to bring about what 1000 watts did years ago so perhaps it was too little too late

And the fringe areas were never "guaranteed" coverage areas, so what stations did not have was accidental, not a promise.

OK. True. It's probably my personal issue that I get annoyed at missing the fringe FM signal when the AM translator signal just repeats the program of an AM station that gave up trying years go. It's just a personal thing

A lot of stations, particularly daytimers, high band AMs and FMs in really small towns should not have been licensed. And, for the most part, those are the stations that don't make money.

Even back when that happened there was a reason those stations didn't make money and most of them didn't make money after the change to 16-something. I believe the issue was and is too many stations and too few advertisers. Let the weak die so that the strong and survive and afford to program something more than the stuff we're hearing today

Yet that station designed its pattern in the 30's to cover both NYC and Philly. It ran ads promoting that in all the trade magazines.

Agreed. That's much of my argument about AM. It's not 1930 anymore. That good decision in the day turns out not to be good for WOR today. The AM signals are not compatible with the modern world of computers, led lamps and a million other appliances that make it unlistenable.

It was our legislators who did not want... back in the days of the FRC... anyone to have a station that could be a voice of a whole region of the country. So they capped power at a very low 50,000 watts. The one exception they made, WLW, was eventually forced back to 50,000 watts. The issue here is politics, not a deficiency of AM.

The nation station. I've read about it where the station played on the metal roofs of sheds near its transmitter. Lots of power. Politics is almost never going to be good for business. Lobby groups will always get more political attention than the public that doesn't spend a lot of time making their wishes known. And yes, it's our fault as lazy Americans.

I know of a market of about 20 million where there are a dozen successful AM stations. All are 50 kw or higher, and get significant ratings. There, the government realized that restricting power was not a service to the public.

A good signal will yield good results even on AM in a populated area. Sadly we are talking about few 50,000 watt signals and hundreds of low grade, power signals which have no real future here. The big guns will work for a time but the little ones are already dead for the most part. Yes, there are exceptions, but not many.

The issue is really the availability of new sources. But nothing is like AM for emergency broadcasts and coverage of remote areas. The number of stations will decline, but the end of AM is not immediate.

Perhaps, but forget the emergency use. No one is going to fund an AM station for when it's needed for that emergency. I honestly don't want the government to spend a lot of cash on AM for a "just in case". There are too many other ways to get information today so AM is less important than ever before. Even when things go south, few people tune to their local AM station because they know for the most part the local signal is syndicated or simulcasting something from the corporate station that feeds their lesser signals. Today's youth probably would never even think of AM in an emergency. Even back when AM was relevant, I don't know if anyone knew what the civil defense triangle was for on their 1960 AM radio. Even during the Conelrad days, people didn't pay attention.

For starters, look at all the ethnic communities that depend on AM stations for information in their preferred language and music that is part of their culture.

And they'll still have that, only on FM or elsewhere, where all marketable communication will end up. We know that dwindling advertising revenue will require that more signals on both bands will become unprofitable. Those FM signals which some group owners find marginal and sell as they move to other more profitable business models will be prime for those formats you speak of.

None of this will happen tomorrow, but it will happen if we allow the market and not the lobby groups to steer the ship. A lot of stations will die but the ones left will be healthier and I think everyone will agree that the airwaves are filled with a lot of sick radio signals. And yes we all know that Wxxx and Kxxx are amazing, loved by all and doing a super job that listeners and advertisers crave. But there are a million other signals that no one cares about because they suck. Let them die of natural causes to make the others stronger so that those left in the business can make a reasonable living.

 

[Dondd]

One reason broadcasters in whole are not making money is that there are too many pies and not enough advertisers to pay for all those pies.

True.

If AM dies, the good programming will find another outlet on FM or elsewhere. No one will miss AM if it is allowed to follow the logical course and die by the market place.

Not really. I recall someone once placing an FM antenna on a 100' antenna about 70-90 miles from a major Midwestern market oldies FM, to get music not found in most other markets.

Today, it's the opposite, when smaller markets carry oldies from the 60s and 70s.

And look at what happened to smooth jazz, classical and other formats. They rarely move from AM to FM.

 

[TheBigA]

I honestly don't want the government to spend a lot of cash on AM for a "just in case". There are too many other ways to get information today so AM is less important than ever before.

Where are you getting the idea that the government is spending ANY money on AM? As I said, the American system is based on private ownership of radio. The AM stations pay the FCC for the licensing process. The federal government isn't allowed to own any domestic radio stations that aim at the domestic audience. So no money is being spent. One agency we haven't talked about is DHS. They're the ones who spend money on things such as EAS service. But once again, they don't own radio stations. They simply route emergency information into the pipeline, and it's transmitted to all platforms, including AM radio. But AM is just part of the overall distribution.

 

[BruceB]

True.

Not really. I recall someone once placing an FM antenna on a 100' antenna about 70-90 miles from a major Midwestern market oldies FM, to get music not found in most other markets.

Today, it's the opposite, when smaller markets carry oldies from the 60s and 70s.

And look at what happened to smooth jazz, classical and other formats. They rarely move from AM to FM.

Anyone with an internet connection and a smart speaker can listen to pretty much any radio station they want. I moved from Cincinnati to Centerville, which is a suburb of Dayton.But I still listen to all my Cincinnati stations loud and clear on a Google Nest Audio.

 

[briancraig]

Almost 20 years ago during and after Hurricane Katrina, WWL AM was the only communication source for a wide area of the Gulf Coast for weeks. WWL’s daytime signal is listenable from Beaumont, TX to Panama City, FL.

2005, I know ancient history for the AM is no longer relevant crowd. What about 2024?

CBS did a story the other day on WWNC AM in Asheville, NC. Story said that after Hurricane Helene, more than a million people had no power and spotty cell service, but what they did have was the radio which was the only connection to the outside world.

For days, WWNC was a lifeline, “serving as a proxy dispatch service to help coordinate wellness checks and connect the stranded with nearby resources.”

 

[cc333]

I don't know if giving AM Stations an FM was a Good or even Bad thing

It was OK for the Lakeport/Clearlake area. KXBX 1270's classic hits format can finally be heard on FM now thanks to their new translator. However, it blocks reception of KOIT 96.5, but I don't think it's really a big deal, since it's not really easy to receive up there anyway, and for myself, even if it did, there's not much they play that I care to hear anyway, so it's no big loss.

I'm pretty sure that's not a consideration of Brendan Carr.

I suspect he's only considering that which supports the views and opinions of his boss.

c