Saving AM Radio

[SomeRadioGuy]

Brazil took the former low band VHF frequencies and moved AM stations there. The problem is that none of them are making money because nobody is buying new radios to hear them.

(Brazil, like the rest of the world outside of NARBA, never had daytimers. They just moved AM stations to the "low band" FM channels. There was enough space to accommodate them all even though Brazil had more AMs per capita than the US)

4 of those low band FMs are used for Radio Nacional's which I sometimes hear in the indiacativo de frequencia on Radio Nacional Amazonias 11780khz

 

[davideduardo]

None of those devices, though, has a radio

I used that term in the traditional definition, meaning a device that receives one-to-many broadcasts.

Those devices ARE the radio.

No, they are not "radios" in the traditional sense. We are finding that all audio without pictures is being called "radio" by some, but the term is still vague.

I don't know about I-Pads, but if they are at all similar to my laptop, I can readily listen to any radio station.

Only if the station streams. And many stations, due to copyright material licensing, can't afford to stream outside their local market... or at all.

Because I can also do so with my phone, any prospect of AM getting removed from cars will be a non-issue for me, as my phone becomes my "radio".

And in a real emergency, your phone will not work. Most "real" radios will.

Smart radio operators, AM and FM will embrace this new portal for their content and push, Push, PUSH an App for their station. If they want younger, advertiser desirable demos, first get the programming right. If KABC can't function as a talk station with where their tower and power are stuck at, change what they can - namely the programming. Figure out what makes that station in Orlando work and put it on 790 and their App.

You are generalizing. The mentality of the few non-Hispanic whites left in LA (less than 30%) is very different than that in Orlando, no matter what device is used to listen.

Go to where young people hang out on the web and get some internet advertising that invites them to hit the "channel 79" App on their phone. Go to college campuses and high schools with "cool" presentations that get a buzz going. New listenership might start out mostly on the internet, but the ease of a car push button will also include terrestrial afterward. How the listener gets the advertiser supported content is not important. The fact that desirable demos are listening is. Of course, all of this will be easier if it were done with an FM station. But that would require taking a chance on blowing up a format for something unknown. (I am thinking that the future of radio, FM and AM, is primarily unique spoken word. Music will be increasingly harder to monetize). If AM is 'dying' or 'dead' they have nothing to lose in trying, except the cost of assembling the talent.

You are ignoring completely the way advertisers and their agencies work. Radio's customers are advertisers; listeners are our product that we sell to advertisers.

Broadcast Radio I think has the advantage in attempting this. If I was to start McKinneyRadioLA.com trying this, it would be twice as hard to get people to punch the App because I am unknown, and I think advertisers would see me as just another internet speck and be reluctant to jump on board.

Unless you have huge numbers and a good CPM (or equivalent metric) you won't even get into an agency's media department for a presentation.

 

[gr8oldies]

Has been proposed for a long time but nobody is buying radios and cars are kept so long it might be 15 years before all cars have a radio dial to tune these stations in. Thus, killing AM would be just exactly what happens if AMs moved to 75-87.9 FM and 108-120.1 FM. I love the idea myself but it just won't work. Maybe if it was tried about 1990 to 2000.

There was a proposal to create "FM2" somewhere in the 220 mHz band in the 80s but that went nowhere

 

[K6JHU]

Brazil took the former low band VHF frequencies and moved AM stations there. The problem is that none of them are making money because nobody is buying new radios to hear them.

(Brazil, like the rest of the world outside of NARBA, never had daytimers. They just moved AM stations to the "low band" FM channels. There was enough space to accommodate them all even though Brazil had more AMs per capita than the US)

I was at the Brazil/Argentina border. The vehicle I was in did not have low band but did have standard AM/FM. I did a band scan and every FM channel was occupied save one (100.5). I then repeated the scan on AM. Counted two stations. Both of them weak. Says volumes about the future of AM.

 

[BruceB]

Does anyone know how many AM stations in the US are still on the air today?As opposed to 5 years ago or 10 years ago.would be interesting.To see what rate stations are going dark.
When I started this thread.I asked the question.What would you tell the FCC if you were tasked with the job of trying to save AM Radio.I've been impressed with how few of you think it's even worth trying.

 

[Mediafrog+]

Brazil took the former low band VHF frequencies and moved AM stations there. The problem is that none of them are making money because nobody is buying new radios to hear them.

Scroll through this list of Brazilian FMs and you will see many of the so-called “eFM” stations between 76 and 88 MHz, particularly around Sao Paulo: tudoradio.com - O Rádio: Migração das AMs - Levantamento no FM

Curious who is making those receivers that tune 76-108 MHz...perhaps Japanese brands that include the traditional Japanese 76-90 MHz band combined with the more familiar CCIR allocation.

 

[kwthom]

Does anyone know how many AM stations in the US are still on the air today?As opposed to 5 years ago or 10 years ago.would be interesting.To see what rate stations are going dark.

Roughly 4100 today. Roughly 4700 back in 2014.

Source: https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DA-24-17A1.pdf

https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DOC-331381A1.pdf

When I started this thread.I asked the question.What would you tell the FCC if you were tasked with the job of trying to save AM Radio.I've been impressed with how few of you think it's even worth trying.

Look, you have industry professionals that see the writing on the wall that have responded in this thread.

What makes you (or anyone else) think they have the 'magic elixir' that solves this problem?

 

[TheBigA]

I've been impressed with how few of you think it's even worth trying.

Impressed or depressed? The NAB and a lot of owners have publicly weighed in on the subject, and the FCC doesn't appear interested.

The FCC itself caused many of the current issues, including the limitations on bandwidth and weakening protections to clear channels. They over-licensed the spectrum with a bunch of low power AMs that are now the canaries in the coal mine. The idea of the FCC empowering a panel on the subject seems laughable to me. The previous administration addressed AM revitalization with FM translators. That's all you need to know.

 

[Mediafrog+]

BTW we had a very similar and lengthy discussion last year on this now-closed thread: https://www.radiodiscussions.com/threads/what-happened-and-why-is-it-still-happening.764435/

 

[Don CT]

Add more blow torch stations and cut back on the weak unlistenable signals.

 

[Hyrum]

It's not a hobby. He has hired professional people to run it. There are lots of single owner stations that aren't hobby stations.

I suppose only he can decide if it is a hobby or profession, but he's spent a ton of cash over the years buying brokered time programs elsewhere to get his views across. He has put on some talent, admittedly, who he may have hired to make the station great, or express a viewpoint he wishes to see expressed, or to rub elbows with. I can't address his motives, but if I were guessing, I'd say it's more a hobby than where he sees his next income stream coming from. He likes what he is doing with it and he likes the attention of the people he puts on it. Nothing wrong with that. If I had a zillion dollars I'd have a big hobby too. It would not be AM radio though. Not even that one.

 

[SomeRadioGuy]

Add more blow torch stations and cut back on the weak unlistenable signals.

So cut out little 1kw day 20, 30 watt night AM's like KBRX, KBRB, KVSH and KNLV and remove local service from those communities? Yes, they have co owned FMs( except for KVSH) but the Ams serve a purpose

Giving them, say 250 Watts at night would be useful but 5 or 10kw.. a blowtorch would be expensive business killing overkill

 

[Don CT]

So cut out little 1kw day 20, 30 watt night AM's like KBRX, KBRB, KVSH and KNLV and remove local service from those communities? Yes, they have co owned FMs( except for KVSH) but the Ams serve a purpose

Giving them, say 250 Watts at night would be useful but 5 or 10kw.. a blowtorch would be expensive business killing overkill

Someone asked how to save AM. It’s a fairy tail that will never happen. That’s my suggestion.

Have 50 full power unprotected clear channel AM stations across the country. Give them priority, clear out the smaller protected stations that can’t be heard beyond 20 miles.

 

[kwthom]

Someone asked how to save AM. It’s a fairy tail that will never happen. That’s my suggestion.

Have 50 full power unprotected clear channel AM stations across the country. Give them priority, clear out the smaller protected stations that can’t be heard beyond 20 miles.

Is there an audience for this fallacy?

For a decade? Maybe...then what?

 

[Don CT]

Is there an audience for this fallacy?

For a decade? Maybe...then what?

Seems there isn’t much of an audience now. Maybe the problem is most AM sounds like crap and there are too many stations clogging the airwaves.

 

[kwthom]

Seems there isn’t much of an audience now. Maybe the problem is most AM sounds like crap and there are too many stations clogging the airwaves.

Yup - as mentioned in these sorts of threads on this forum, too little, too late.

 

[TheBigA]

Have 50 full power unprotected clear channel AM stations across the country. Give them priority, clear out the smaller protected stations that can’t be heard beyond 20 miles.

Someone asked earlier who picks the 50? And who compensates the other 4000 stations for their loss? This ain't fake money.

If the FCC tried to do this, it would get hauled in before congress and they'd get reversed immediately. Just as Kevin Martin got his butt kicked by Byron Dorgan in 2008:

Senate Votes to Stop Martin Ownership Rules

The measure still needs passage from the House and faces a likely veto from President Bush.

www.tvtechnology.com

 

[boombox4]

Scroll through this list of Brazilian FMs and you will see many of the so-called “eFM” stations between 76 and 88 MHz, particularly around Sao Paulo: tudoradio.com - O Rádio: Migração das AMs - Levantamento no FM

Curious who is making those receivers that tune 76-108 MHz...perhaps Japanese brands that include the traditional Japanese 76-90 MHz band combined with the more familiar CCIR allocation.

Most modern Chinese made radios with AM, FM, & SW have the FM Low Band available. My 2011 Grundig G2 has the entire 64-108 FM band available. So does my 2022 Tecsun. There are other brands that have the same option as well.

Some of those radios are very inexpensive, and work very, very well on FM, as well as the other bands. The XHDATA D219, for example, is around $10 US and very good on FM, and has the 64-88 FM band standard.

Now, whether they actually sell in Brazil or not, who knows? I would hazard a guess that most people use their phone instead, to stream the stations. I mean, they've already got the phone. No need to buy anything.

But 76 MHz FM capable radios are available, online, and cheap. There may also be an ability to program some of the car radios to tune to the 76-88 MHz band -- that's just a guess. The chips in car 'radios' probably already have the capability. NXP, which I believe makes, and has made chips for a lot of auto radios, has had TEF 66xx chips with 64-88 MHz capability on the market since at least 2013.

TEF665X | DSP-Based Radio Tuner One-Chip

Multi-standard car radio tuner IC with DSP delivers superior reception and seamless switching between FM, AM and digital radio signals

www.nxp.com

 

[Don CT]

Someone asked earlier who picks the 50? And who compensates the other 4000 stations for their loss? This ain't fake money.

If the FCC tried to do this, it would get hauled in before congress and they'd get reversed immediately. Just as Kevin Martin got his butt kicked by Byron Dorgan in 2008:

Senate Votes to Stop Martin Ownership Rules

The measure still needs passage from the House and faces a likely veto from President Bush.

www.tvtechnology.com

This whole thread is a fairytale with no possible solutions. I’m giving my opinion on how to save what’s not savable.

If you want to really save AM radio you need a national model of high quality sounding stations. We call it syndication now just cut out the crap sounding stations.

 

[kwthom]

...and, again, who makes this decision on "High quality" versus "crap sounding" stations again?

No intention on being argumentative, but many of the other threads on this topic have been down these paths as well.

There *are* no easy answers, and *that* is the consensus.