Saving Boston Rock Radio....

[Oldbones]

I'm not much of a fan of altrock, and other than Oasis (who I always considered a one-hit wonder) have never heard of any of these artists. One can only look at WFNX's lack of ratings success and question whether or not these acts have much appeal beyond a very narrow group of listeners. Granted, signal (or lack thereof) is a factor here as well, but didn't 'FNX pull 2+ shares back in their heyday?


> > Some of the bands that should be every alt-rock station's
> > playlist right now: Kaiser Chiefs, Nine Black Alps, Billy
> > Corgan, Bob Mould, Fall Out Boy, Sleater-Kinney, Frank
> > Black, Maximo Park, Bloc Party, Dead 60s, All American
> > Rejects, Oasis, Dressy Bessy, Youth Group, Razorlight, and
>
> > Teenage Fanclub.
>
> I know I am new, but I would just like to point out that FNX
> has the
> Kaiser Chiefs, Fall Out Boy, Bloc Party, Dead 60s, Oasis,
> and Razorlight on their playlist.
>
> They've also featured Maximo Park and Waltham.
>
> The played the hell out of the Dresden Dolls in 04, into
> this year, and have kept them in regular rotation. In fact,
> DD headlined their Best Music Poll (Landsdowne) this Year.
> The other major acts included the Kaiser Chiefs and Dear
> Leader (from Boston).
>
> FNX actually puts a ton of stuff from their Sunday night
> shows into their regular rotation. They've been anti
> nu-metal since the split in 2003.
>
> I listen to FNX all the time and wanted to give them props
> in a discussion like this.
>

 

[epsilon]

> I know I am new, but I would just like to point out that FNX
> has the
> Kaiser Chiefs, Fall Out Boy, Bloc Party, Dead 60s, Oasis,
> and Razorlight on their playlist.
>


That's good to know. I live outside of FNX's signal range so I only get to list to them if I'm driving through the city.

 

[macalister]

> > > >What about when
> > > > WAAF dropped Godsmack first? What about when WBCN
> broke
> > > the
> > > > Fools, J Geils, the Police, U2, Mission of Burma,
> > Letters
> > > to
> > > > Cleo first?
> > >
> > > Everything you've typed on this subject is negated by
> the
> > > fact that you don't even realize that The Police are not
> a
> >
> > > Boston band.
> > >
> > > I'm officially done discussing radio with you.
> > >
> >
> > ..and neither is U2.
> >
> > I think he knows that.
> >
>
> Wow, we have a winner here. Thanks.
>


Chill, my friend. I was trying to defend you.

No offense to 'Pol.

 

[macalister]

> > How does asking for airplay of a "good song" make me look
> > foolish? I have talked up Rocketscience "Writers Block" I
> > think is the name of the song. Major label, yes. I want it
>
> > played not because it is signed but because it is a good
> > song. End of story.
>
> That's your opinion. There are those who might think the
> song is a "terrible song". The difference is, those people
> might control what gets played on the radio whereas you just
> want to knock rock radio, and then expect it to cater to
> your wants. You've spent multiple posts referring to "crap
> radio" and saying that you don't listen. So, we're not for
> you. Go listen to your Rocketscience/Waltham songs and let
> us continue to suck as we've done for so long. Obviously, we
> don't know what we're doing. You have all the answers,a nd
> someday we'll all have to bow to your superior musical
> knowledge. Until then, you just sound like an unfocused fan
> of local/indie music that has less than zero knowledge about
> what we do.
>
> >What part did you not get about me
> > arguing for better songs and less formula? You and I know
> > for every 100 signed acts there is one or two that gets
> real
> > airplay.
>
> And of those one or two...neither are being marketed for
> long-term artist growth. That's the way of the music world.
> You can adapt, or you can implode. That's the only choice.
>
> >
> > Hey Paul did you go on another board a few months ago and
> > say in all your years of radio you never saw or knew of
> > payola. It didn't exist is what you said. Who is full of
> > it???????
>
>
> I said I've never seen, nor worked for any station that
> engaged in the practice. I never said it didn't exist. It
> existed long before you and I were born. It exists now. And,
> it will exist long after we're gone.
>
> Corruption exists in all big business. And make no mistake
> Radio is big business. That's why (sticking to the point)
> the idea of playing more local.indie/unsinged bands will
> never work. That would be about art. Radio stopped being
> about art on day two. It's about money.
>
> Unsigned=unmarketable.

Also, Pol, you're a DJ, and it ain't jocks who're getting any kickbacks from Payola these days.

You've got a point about indie/unsigned bands as a basis for a format not working. These days, you can count on a listener thinking/doing the following things:

1)upon hearing a new song on the radio: "I don't know this, so I will change the station."

2)upon hearing an old song on the radio: "Oh, this is so overplayed. I will change the station."

3)upon hearing a DJ talking: "I hate it when DJs talk. I will change the station."

4)upon listening to Jack with no DJs talking: "This is weird. I miss DJs. I will change the station."

The only way you can ensure that Artist X will ever sink in (at least using conventional methods) is to surround the populace with them, so they're on every single station, every single late night show on tv, and heavy rotation on whateverplaysmusicvideos nowadays. And to do that, you need an artist who is as inoffensive as possible to the greatest amount of people. Enter: Trapt. They kinda rock. They're kinda sensitive. They're absolutely no one's favorite band, but you can't really hate them. To take a chance on a Beyond the Embrace or Kaiser Chiefs or Dresden Dolls is to risk losing revenue, no matter how good those three bands are. Those kind of bands take too long to sink in for people, so you really need to be choosy, as an MD or PD, which bands you throw your effort behind, or you're just wasting time and energy on a losing proposition, and wasting airtime when you could have been playing more Pearl Jam or Bob's Discount Furniture ads. (Case in point: BCN and Jimmie's Chicken Shack a few years back.)

So, ya wanna back a new artist, make sure they sound exactly like what worked before. And fewer people will like them, but more people will listen initially.

An indie band is more likely to find a fanbase using the internet or xm radio, because there is an audience there that is specifically looking for that kind of thing, and they've abandoned radio long since. (Yeah, I think nu-metal killed alt. rock radio too; it scared away the girls and the smart kids, leaving an audience of people who KindaLikeStaind.)

 

[neanderpol]

> Also, Pol, you're a DJ, and it ain't jocks who're getting
> any kickbacks from Payola these days.

It certainly isn't!

> You've got a point about indie/unsigned bands as a basis for
> a format not working. These days, you can count on a
> listener thinking/doing the following things:
>
> 1)upon hearing a new song on the radio: "I don't know this,
> so I will change the station."
>
> 2)upon hearing an old song on the radio: "Oh, this is so
> overplayed. I will change the station."
>
> 3)upon hearing a DJ talking: "I hate it when DJs talk. I
> will change the station."
>
> 4)upon listening to Jack with no DJs talking: "This is
> weird. I miss DJs. I will change the station."
>
> The only way you can ensure that Artist X will ever sink in
> (at least using conventional methods) is to surround the
> populace with them, so they're on every single station,
> every single late night show on tv, and heavy rotation on
> whateverplaysmusicvideos nowadays. And to do that, you need
> an artist who is as inoffensive as possible to the greatest
> amount of people. Enter: Trapt. They kinda rock. They're
> kinda sensitive. They're absolutely no one's favorite band,
> but you can't really hate them. To take a chance on a
> Beyond the Embrace or Kaiser Chiefs or Dresden Dolls is to
> risk losing revenue, no matter how good those three bands
> are. Those kind of bands take too long to sink in for
> people, so you really need to be choosy, as an MD or PD,
> which bands you throw your effort behind, or you're just
> wasting time and energy on a losing proposition, and wasting
> airtime when you could have been playing more Pearl Jam or
> Bob's Discount Furniture ads. (Case in point: BCN and
> Jimmie's Chicken Shack a few years back.)
>
> So, ya wanna back a new artist, make sure they sound exactly
> like what worked before. And fewer people will like them,
> but more people will listen initially.

Unfortunately, it goes further than that. Some PDs don't give a rat's ass about music. They just look at the charts, and "test scores", and react. It's more the norm than the exception. And when you find music that's "fresh" sounding, some programmers don't have the patience to commit to it to see if it breaks through the clutter.

> An indie band is more likely to find a fanbase using the
> internet or xm radio, because there is an audience there
> that is specifically looking for that kind of thing, and
> they've abandoned radio long since. (Yeah, I think nu-metal
> killed alt. rock radio too; it scared away the girls and the
> smart kids, leaving an audience of people who
> KindaLikeStaind.)

Perfect example...NOBODY says "Oh man..the new Collective Soul CD comes out this week". Yet...they had more hits in the 90s than most.

And the bands people have passion for...don't quite work for "at work" listening. Do you think if System Of A Down weren't SO omnipresent with rock listeners that anyone would be playing them?

I contend no. Because they're just difficult to listen to. Not a bad band, but incredibly Frank Zappa-like. Whih brings us to the real truth....Brilliant music rarely gets mass airplay until after it's long past current status.

 

[HHH]

> > *Better personalities. Charles Laquidiria made you think,
> > feel, and act locally.
> >
> > *Quality underground, unsigned, and indie local music. It
> > doesn't have to be all local/indie. Just throw it in more,
>
> > having at least three or four locals always in regular
> > rotation. The best local acts. Look for the songs. They
> are
> > there. Carmelita's show is how I discover much of them.
> > Shred's show is good as well. WAAF/WBCN/WFNX need to go a
>
> > little deeper in their catologues playing deeper classic
> > cuts (you can still play Pearl Jam but not the same 6
> songs)
> > and start playing Waltham, Darkbuster, Dresden Dolls,
> Robby
> > Roadsteamer, Bleu, Beyond the Embrace, the Rudds, the
> Dents,
> > Raymond, Rocketscience, etc. as well as some of the best
> > Boston classic bands from the past. I would love to hear
> > Mission of Burma, old school Bosstones, J Geils, and the
> > Fools every once in awhile.
> >
> > Beyond the Embrace is the metal band that tops all the
> > bigger local names, they are made for radio and they have
> > the street cred. The Rocketscience song with Steve Tyler
> of
> > Aerosmith is a smash out of this world hit if I have ever
> > heard one. Waltham also is a sure hit. What are these
> people
> > waiting for?
> >
> > Why not Carmelita playing local Boston bands with DLR in
> the
> > mornings? She could bring in Gary Cherone and see how it
> > goes. Haha. We need some excitement and to also let the
> > masses know what is going on in the clubs and
> neighborhoods
> > of Boston. They are starving for it and the clubs reflect
> > it, I see alot of kids from the Suburbs at shows in Boston
>
> > and Cambridge. This last Saturday night at the Paradise
> big
> > room for Waltham sold out at 9:30 PM while the Rudds sold
> > out the smallish Lizard Lounge. Neither gets regular
> airplay
> > and could do it again next week. People are starting to
> > reward the good acts that stick it out.
> >
> > We have so many bands taking a big step up without the
> help
> > of radio right now. More of them succeding without radio
> > than I have seen in the past. Why? Because of myspace.com,
>
> > the internet, the Noise Magazine, three local commercial
> > radio shows, college radio, indie labels, Boston Music
> > Awards, exciting live local club shows, Little Steven
> > gargage show, California's INDIE 103 airplay of Boston
> > Bands, and the lack of good music on WBCN, WFNX, and WAAF
> > during the work week. There's more of course but ust some
> of
> > the good stuff I see going on. We need Boston radio to
> open
> > their eyes. This is Boston, not Iowa.
> >
> > Play Waltham, the Dresden Dolls, Rocketscience,
> Darkbuster,
> > and watch your station establish the brand as BOSTON'S
> ROCK
> > STATION.
> >
> > THE WBCN Rumble and WAAF LOCOBAZOOKA have helped as well
> but
> > that committment needs to be there more than once a
> > year.....
> >
> Very simple......Nobody cares about that stuff enough to
> actually want to hear it on the radio. That's it, that's
> all. Indie 103? wfnx is attempting to do more or less what
> they are doing but Indie does not have ANY ratings either,
> none. Local rock is not what people are tuning to hear
> outside of Sunday nights and even then it's almost
> exclusively the bands and their friends listening. People
> want familliar stuff that they know and like and as much as
> some complain that they do not hear enough variety, the
> second you give that to them they lose interest because they
> are not hearing that which is familliar to them. Beyond the
> Embrace is appealing to a small segment of the audience that
> does not want to sit through Beck to hear it, Waltham is
> far from a smash, Waltham is a a kin to a bad journey cover
> band. If these bands werre as popular and guaranteed smashes
> as you think every rock station would be playing them. alot,
> then you would complain that they got played too much. There
> is no winning really.
>


But, Boston is LOADED with scores of college stations. Does not some of this stuff get regular airplay on WMBR, WERS, WZBC, WHRB, WRBB, etc?

Take a look at a map of the USA and be thankful that you don't live in the probably 75% of the country who get little or no non-commercial radio that plays cutting-edge rock.

 

[Bostonradiofan]

> > > *Better personalities. Charles Laquidiria made you
> think,
> > > feel, and act locally.
> > >
> > > *Quality underground, unsigned, and indie local music.
> It
> > > doesn't have to be all local/indie. Just throw it in
> more,
> >
> > > having at least three or four locals always in regular
> > > rotation. The best local acts. Look for the songs. They
> > are
> > > there. Carmelita's show is how I discover much of them.
> > > Shred's show is good as well. WAAF/WBCN/WFNX need to go
> a
> >
> > > little deeper in their catologues playing deeper classic
>
> > > cuts (you can still play Pearl Jam but not the same 6
> > songs)
> > > and start playing Waltham, Darkbuster, Dresden Dolls,
> > Robby
> > > Roadsteamer, Bleu, Beyond the Embrace, the Rudds, the
> > Dents,
> > > Raymond, Rocketscience, etc. as well as some of the best
>
> > > Boston classic bands from the past. I would love to hear
>
> > > Mission of Burma, old school Bosstones, J Geils, and the
>
> > > Fools every once in awhile.
> > >
> > > Beyond the Embrace is the metal band that tops all the
> > > bigger local names, they are made for radio and they
> have
> > > the street cred. The Rocketscience song with Steve Tyler
>
> > of
> > > Aerosmith is a smash out of this world hit if I have
> ever
> > > heard one. Waltham also is a sure hit. What are these
> > people
> > > waiting for?
> > >
> > > Why not Carmelita playing local Boston bands with DLR in
>
> > the
> > > mornings? She could bring in Gary Cherone and see how it
>
> > > goes. Haha. We need some excitement and to also let the
> > > masses know what is going on in the clubs and
> > neighborhoods
> > > of Boston. They are starving for it and the clubs
> reflect
> > > it, I see alot of kids from the Suburbs at shows in
> Boston
> >
> > > and Cambridge. This last Saturday night at the Paradise
> > big
> > > room for Waltham sold out at 9:30 PM while the Rudds
> sold
> > > out the smallish Lizard Lounge. Neither gets regular
> > airplay
> > > and could do it again next week. People are starting to
> > > reward the good acts that stick it out.
> > >
> > > We have so many bands taking a big step up without the
> > help
> > > of radio right now. More of them succeding without radio
>
> > > than I have seen in the past. Why? Because of
> myspace.com,
> >
> > > the internet, the Noise Magazine, three local commercial
>
> > > radio shows, college radio, indie labels, Boston Music
> > > Awards, exciting live local club shows, Little Steven
> > > gargage show, California's INDIE 103 airplay of Boston
> > > Bands, and the lack of good music on WBCN, WFNX, and
> WAAF
> > > during the work week. There's more of course but ust
> some
> > of
> > > the good stuff I see going on. We need Boston radio to
> > open
> > > their eyes. This is Boston, not Iowa.
> > >
> > > Play Waltham, the Dresden Dolls, Rocketscience,
> > Darkbuster,
> > > and watch your station establish the brand as BOSTON'S
> > ROCK
> > > STATION.
> > >
> > > THE WBCN Rumble and WAAF LOCOBAZOOKA have helped as well
>
> > but
> > > that committment needs to be there more than once a
> > > year.....
> > >
> > Very simple......Nobody cares about that stuff enough to
> > actually want to hear it on the radio. That's it, that's
> > all. Indie 103? wfnx is attempting to do more or less what
>
> > they are doing but Indie does not have ANY ratings either,
>
> > none. Local rock is not what people are tuning to hear
> > outside of Sunday nights and even then it's almost
> > exclusively the bands and their friends listening. People
> > want familliar stuff that they know and like and as much
> as
> > some complain that they do not hear enough variety, the
> > second you give that to them they lose interest because
> they
> > are not hearing that which is familliar to them. Beyond
> the
> > Embrace is appealing to a small segment of the audience
> that
> > does not want to sit through Beck to hear it, Waltham is
> > far from a smash, Waltham is a a kin to a bad journey
> cover
> > band. If these bands werre as popular and guaranteed
> smashes
> > as you think every rock station would be playing them.
> alot,
> > then you would complain that they got played too much.
> There
> > is no winning really.
> >
>
>
> But, Boston is LOADED with scores of college stations. Does
> not some of this stuff get regular airplay on WMBR, WERS,
> WZBC, WHRB, WRBB, etc?
>
> Take a look at a map of the USA and be thankful that you
> don't live in the probably 75% of the country who get little
> or no non-commercial radio that plays cutting-edge rock.
>

I listen to WMBR, WERS, and WMFO but many are speciality shows. I am not big into listening to a show of children songs or rheghae, etc. I like mainstream music but cringe when I hear the same Pearl Jam song for the 1000th time. And Pearl Jam is a great band. My feeling is there has to be a happy middle ground. FNX has been picking up more of my listening time lately. Heard Waltham and Aberdeen City on there last night.