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Seattle AM Radio

R

radioprofessor

Guest
There have been dozens of posts and thousands of readers to the discussion of AM Radio, the launch of KIRO and the focus on the survival parameter of AM. Let me give you the reasons I believe AM Radio will survive:

1. FM radio does not have a huge advantage in spoken word clarity of signal. FM has a clear advantage in music delivery. AM stations in many markets with terrain issues actually have an advantage in my humble view.

2. AM spoken word stations have a much greater ability to carry large unit loads. A typical AM station in SF or LA carries close to double the unit load of FM stations, where the tolerance is lower, in my view. This allows AM stations to price for frequency of commercials and make money. Many of the top five moneymakers in major markets are AM radio stations.

3. AM stations are beginning to focus appeal and content with great success, becoming more niche in the spoken word arena. It used to be "Sports" formats. Now it is the big Play by Play stations with ESPN and local talent against the local "in your face" sports stations with local and Fox talent. The non-play by play station can be more critical and serves a different audience. Same parameter holds true for Talk stations and News stations. The dial is beginning to niche to draw audience back. (It is like cable TV News. 15 years ago it was just CNN and ESPN. Now 15 different niche spoken word channels battle for audience and revenue. While CNN and ESPN numbers dropped the combined total audience and revenue grew geometrically)

4. Many AM, like FM stations will become low cost flankers. The Jack, Movin, Classic Hits automated formats of FM are the automated niche talk or brokered talk heard on AM. They just generate high margin cash.

5. Some will go away. Low power AM stations can't compete and will be turned off. Same thing is happenning on the FM dial across the country where 33% of the CP's go unbuilt. In fact, more FM stations have gone dark than AM according to the FCC statistics. In my humble view that is a good thing. 1/3 less stations will allow others to grow and survive.

Seattle is a a perfect example of the power of AM radio. A decade ago it was all KIRO-AM and a bunch of non-performing sticks. Now when I visit there are varied niche formats with KIRO-AM sports, KOMO-AM, KTTH-AM, KVI-AM, KKOL-AM, KIXI-AM, KPTK-AM, KJR-AM and the list goes on. All of these stations make some money. If you add up the audience shares on the AM dial and compare it to a decade ago, you will see AM is in a much better position with mutiple niche stations that add revenue to the bottom line, compared to one 25 million dollar revenue generating KIRO-AM. Both in dollars and ratings the combined numbers of the AM dial today is much stronger than it was in 1998.
AM is not dead, just changing, in my humble view. None of these stations will be number one or even top five, but all will make money and serve wider, varied audiences through niche appeal. That is the future of AM and it is bright.
 
I agree with you on many points here. Having grown up on the west coast in the 80's, I remember that FM listening, even for music, was problematic because of the terrain. You could drive from one part of Vancouver to another and couldn't even keep the local stations in enough to listen. ¿In that case why would I listen to the news, or a game on FM? NOTHING worse than driving around listening to a fourth and one call late in the 4rth quarter, when you hear "Hands off to the receiver...ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff" and not knowing whether the touchdown was ever scored. Listening to news, even on local FM station, I miss points of story if I'm moving. FM is great if your stationary with nothing between you and the transmitter.

As far as niche programming goes. I noticed back in about 1989 that AM was begining to go that way, In Canada, it was with music, and then sports stations taking off Stateside. AM is doing much better now than it was 10 years ago. Some people say listening overall is down, however, in many markets, lo0k at that lower performing AM stations, and how many of them are showing a slow trend upwards in the ratings, especially in the PPM markets. Quite a few of these stations are showing an increse. It's been a known fact that most of the big money makers nation wide are AM. WGN for years was the station with the highest billing nationwide. They were making money that most stations couldn't even dream of. WBZ in Boston is doing very well financially and has the audience to bo0t.

We all knew that AM has always had to change, adapt with the times, and right when it's going through these changes to adapt, people call it dead, but it survives. Think back right as Rush was breaking big-time nationwide. Back then people said AM was over and wouldn't live out the next 5 years. Rush (love him or hate him) brought AM back and made many stations healthy again for the first time in a few years. TV was supposed to kill AM, so was FM, everything else....yet I turned on my radio to AM today, and heard stations all across the dial. It's still here, and I think it will be for a long time.
 
So you're saying that losing an AM station in a tunnel or overpass, reenforced concrete office building, under trolley or electrical lines or anywhere near a computer monitor is somehow superior to occasional multipath for FM? Really! I would argue your opinion doesn't hold up to reality. Oh and Mino.. this just in...The year is currently 2009. 1989 was 20 years ago.

Okay Professor, besides what amounts to fire sales of time on AM stations, how do you propose refilling the listener ranks with fresh blood when AM is a by far inferior method of broadcasting as compared to FM, not too mention has little or no programming that young people want?

And don't start with the whole Radio Disney thing. Absolutely no research I've seen with the 12+ crowd have shown that radio Disney is nothing more than a tax write-off for the House of Mouse. Radio Disney doesn't show up in ANY ratings anywhere.
 
The issue here is not AM or FM it is content that drives ratings. Spoken word programming has appeal to the 35-64 demographic and that has not changed for 20 years, in my humble view. There is no motivation to take AM stations to the 12-34 demo because it provides limited dollars and younger listeners enjoy music, best delivered on FM. The Coleman spoken word study reveals that somewhere around 30-35 people begin migrating to the spoken word formats. It happened to boomers, it is now happening to gen-x as they hit mid-30's. You get interested in news of the day, commentary and more. I can point to a number of AM stations that dominate 25-54. A quick look at the arbitrion analysis of sports play by play shows most of the audience is 35-64, but during games the 18-34 number is usually top two in the market. Not bad. All-News formats ( KCBS of recent PPM note) have big 25-54 numbers along with older numbers. Specific shows like Clark Howard do much better with Younger listeners in places like Atlanta.

AM makes a ton of money by serving the 35-64 population. I submit that as today's 25 year olds age, they will begin using AM radio for news, traffic and information they just don't care about now, but will as their lives progress. AM radio has found its niche in spoken word, especially in the car, where AM radio has strength. FM will do better at work and with the young music fans.

The fresh blood on AM will come from new talent who will replace sixty year olds. CNN is a good example as 30 something Anderson Cooper has quadrupled the 25-54 demo since he took over. The network was fine, the talent was aging. When Larry King steps down, his replacement should be someone that appeals to the 35-64 demo and so it goes. AM has a bright future with niche spoken word. Again, the best evidence is sheer numbers. In 1997, the AM stations in Seattle had about 8% of the 25-54 market with KIRO and KVI. The remaining AM stations had under a three share combined. Same in many other markets.
Today AM stations have over 15% of the 25-54 market when you add up the numbers of KIRO, KVI and then all news KOMO, KTTH, KPTK, KJR-AM, KKOL, KIXI. You may not have a number one station, but the combined total shows strong appeal on the AM dial in total.
And remember, since the last auction, more FM stations have gone dark than AM across the country. AM is not inferior, just a different parameter with its own strengths and weaknesses.
 
Very Interesting Post, I am one to believe that "AM Aint Dead" as well, its tarnished it image, however if it provides the content... Then is will generate an audience

That being said the Promotions of AM Radio aren’t nearly at all what they could be! 710 ESPN is doing a good job at getting the logo out there with outdoor promotions.
However they are new, and typically in a cluster of AM/FM, the FM's usually get most of the promotion dollars.

radioprofessor said:
The Jack, Movin, Classic Hits automated formats of FM are the automated niche talk or brokered talk heard on AM. They just generate high margin cash.

Jack is Automated, KJR sounds automated, KZOK is not automated, and MOViN has really altered its image to no longer be automated.

TVradioguru said:
So you're saying that losing an AM station in a tunnel or overpass, reinforced concrete office building, under trolley or electrical lines or anywhere near a computer monitor is somehow superior to occasional multipath for FM?

This is all to true. Although that guy tuned into the big game on one of the sports stations, or the folks listening to KIXI typically seem to have a much higher tolerance to that as opposed to the teen listening to multipath from Tiger punching the preset to a cougar station sharing many of the top songs. (Or so it would seem)

TVradioguru said:
And don't start with the whole Radio Disney thing. Absolutely no research I've seen with the 12+ crowd have shown that radio Disney is nothing more than a tax write-off for the House of Mouse. Radio Disney doesn't show up in ANY ratings anywhere.

umm, maybe not in this market. PPM is 6+, and Radio Disney is showing in the New York and LA Ratings. Granted not huge numbers... but they are indeed generating some!
 
I've always seen AM today as people saw FM in the '60s; a place to experiment...and have FUN.

FM back then was seen the same way AM is seen today; and that could be AM's advantage. If AM programmers can just get over their ancient thinking and make AM something FUN to listen to again, it has a hell of a better chance than it does now.

True, there's all kinds of technical issues and JILLIONS of crappy AM recievers, but it wouldn't hurt. AM is just a big tax write-off anyway. The sooner programmers put something worthwhile on it, the sooner new interest may spark in the medium......
 
Sorry cowboys but AM is a dog with no bite :mad:
Can't play music so the band is hoppin around with one leg off. They can do spoken word but there are so many AM stations in that arena that is Seattle none are gonna kick it :'( I kinda agree with Prof though. It ain't the band that's the problem cause i don't think KIRO will be a better talk station just cause its on FM :-\ I also agree no AM will be top 5 25-54, unless the Mariners keep rollin then come playoff time KIRO-Am will have achance. ::)
 
Great topic, thanks to RP and Guru for getting some real meat on this board.

RP, are there any AM stations higher than 1000 making it? Another question,
can KOMO survive at that dial position with current content?
Can music on AM work on a niche basis for a 60+ demo? Odies? Again in my opinion
lower on the dial the better. and a good signal required for day and night.

Best Am signal for day and night KIRO.
KVI would top them with a power boost to 10,000 ND. Someone on this board may have worked on that at one time? I know the 570 conflict with SL, LA, and Canada.
Only other station ND that I know of in the S.T.E. area is KMO Tacoma, playing a Hispanic music format that I listen to once in while.
 
When I mentioned 1989, I was mentioning that it was in that year I noticed (at a young age 17) that the AM dial was begining to go in a niche format. A trend that has continued to this day. I do know what year it is, and how to add (most of the time)

The signal issues I experience with AM have only been experienced with very weak signals nowhere near the market. Stations you can barely hear anyway. I live in a house with extremely high interference levels...so bad I have to take the radio outside a few hundred feet away to have a clean band. DESPITE all that noise, none of the local signals in my area have any problem cutting through that, and do it so well that you can't even tell there would be a noise strong enough to peg the signal meter if that station were off the air. Even stations 2 hours away manage to cut through it with a perfectly listenable signal and the radio can be rotated to eliminate the noise. Going under the underpasses, electrical lines, I can still hear the signal enough to know what's being said. I've never missed a touchdown call while driving, even when listening to the game on a station 4 hours away in the daytime. Yet with a local FM carrying the same game. I've missed entire plays because a hill got in the way and the station never came back in time to ever figure out what happened. Underpasses are usually a half a second of a fade, enough that you can speed through it and the fadeout usually happens between words. Strong 50'000 watt signals don't get affected by that. As far as buildings. I work in an office building, half of my flo0r is slightly below ground level. I get 4 FMs...that's it. All local AM's are perfectly clean, even with 300 computers on in the same ro0m. The computers create a squeal on FM. FM is just as affected by electrical interference as AM. ¿Have you ever taken a walkman into an office building and tried to hear the FM radio? You can't honestly tell me the signal stays clean or doesn't get wiped out as you move around.

AM has it's problems, don't get me wrong, but FM is not as great as it's made out to be, and is prone to sometimes more signal/interference issues than AM. On a cheap wal-mart radio, you won't have an 2 AM stations halfway down the dial wiping out a local like you do on FM. When you have 2 stations at 97.9 and 98.5 wiping out a station at 93.1 (which is common here in Ottawa, and both stations combined don't have half the power of the station at 93.1) you can't say that's not a problem. You'll never hear KVI and KCIS (am 630) wipe KJR off the dial. Eve decent FM tuners still have that issue. Neither band is perfect, but AM issues are easier to overcome.
 
Question if AM is dead how much longer will FM last...The younger demo is in to their Ipods & streaming....
When folks can get the Internet in Their cars as easy as radio it will NOT matter if it is AM or FM. I have seen our internet streamers Double in size as the FM dropped the music we play.

Lets See TV was going to Kill Off Radio/ Cable was going to kill off local TV/FM radio in the late 60's Early 70's was going to kill of AM radio (AM changed and is still here) Satelite radio was going to kill of regular radio, so on and so on.

Oldies on AM will do well, WHY because when I ask our listeners, does us being AM keep you from listening they say NO that is where I first heard this music.

We recently got an advertiser who was about done with radio why poor results SO how did a Lowly AM station not only win him over but change his mind on radio.....We showed him that our station targets his audience, we have tiny ratings and are overlooked buy his previous marketing folks OH they are tooooooo small and are AM....Well we put together a plan and his Sales went thru the Roof he now Loves US and sells folks on his AM winning experience and that is How ANY radio station will survive.....Their is A Beatle show coming to town and the AD buyer will not Buy The Oldies/Beatle station becasue we are AM...well a week before the show when they have poor ticket sales they will give us a call just like they did last year
some folks just don't get it and RADIO as a Whole loses
 
Isn't it probably that HD may die long before AM does?
Hype aside...is there ANY evidence that it has a following from LISTENERS and not just put out there by chains?
 
You got a point LBB....I don't see a lot of excitement in the general public about HD Radio...there's more buzz with XM/Sirius than HD Radio......
 
Bongwater said:
You got a point LBB....I don't see a lot of excitement in the general public about HD Radio...there's more buzz with XM/Sirius than HD Radio......

Indeed, and so far your predictions about Urban CHR dying is so spot on too! Oh wait...
 
DoubleC said:
Question if AM is dead how much longer will FM last...The younger demo is in to their Ipods & streaming....
When folks can get the Internet in Their cars as easy as radio it will NOT matter if it is AM or FM. I have seen our internet streamers Double in size as the FM dropped the music we play.

Lets See TV was going to Kill Off Radio/ Cable was going to kill off local TV/FM radio in the late 60's Early 70's was going to kill of AM radio (AM changed and is still here) Satelite radio was going to kill of regular radio, so on and so on.

Oldies on AM will do well, WHY because when I ask our listeners, does us being AM keep you from listening they say NO that is where I first heard this music.

We recently got an advertiser who was about done with radio why poor results SO how did a Lowly AM station not only win him over but change his mind on radio.....We showed him that our station targets his audience, we have tiny ratings and are overlooked buy his previous marketing folks OH they are tooooooo small and are AM....Well we put together a plan and his Sales went thru the Roof he now Loves US and sells folks on his AM winning experience and that is How ANY radio station will survive.....Their is A Beatle show coming to town and the AD buyer will not Buy The Oldies/Beatle station becasue we are AM...well a week before the show when they have poor ticket sales they will give us a call just like they did last year
some folks just don't get it and RADIO as a Whole loses

As a radio listener, if a station is playing what I want to hear, I will tune in regardless if it is AM or FM. With the lack of choices in Seattle, I would love to have internet capability and be able to stream stations from other cities in my car.
*insert predictably snide/sarcastic comment from TVandRadioGuru here*
 
Grindlfan said:
DoubleC said:
Question if AM is dead how much longer will FM last...The younger demo is in to their Ipods & streaming....
When folks can get the Internet in Their cars as easy as radio it will NOT matter if it is AM or FM. I have seen our internet streamers Double in size as the FM dropped the music we play.

Lets See TV was going to Kill Off Radio/ Cable was going to kill off local TV/FM radio in the late 60's Early 70's was going to kill of AM radio (AM changed and is still here) Satelite radio was going to kill of regular radio, so on and so on.

Oldies on AM will do well, WHY because when I ask our listeners, does us being AM keep you from listening they say NO that is where I first heard this music.

We recently got an advertiser who was about done with radio why poor results SO how did a Lowly AM station not only win him over but change his mind on radio.....We showed him that our station targets his audience, we have tiny ratings and are overlooked buy his previous marketing folks OH they are tooooooo small and are AM....Well we put together a plan and his Sales went thru the Roof he now Loves US and sells folks on his AM winning experience and that is How ANY radio station will survive.....Their is A Beatle show coming to town and the AD buyer will not Buy The Oldies/Beatle station becasue we are AM...well a week before the show when they have poor ticket sales they will give us a call just like they did last year
some folks just don't get it and RADIO as a Whole loses

As a radio listener, if a station is playing what I want to hear, I will tune in regardless if it is AM or FM. With the lack of choices in Seattle, I would love to have internet capability and be able to stream stations from other cities in my car.
*insert predictably snide/sarcastic comment from TVandRadioGuru here*

I've been doing that lately using Clear Channel's "I Heart Radio" app on my Blackberry. It's weird to listen to reggae on Island 98.5 in Honolulu while driving around Seattle! I've also been using the Pandora app. This could be a much bigger threat to local terrestrial radio than satellite ever was/is if it catches on.
 
Grindlfan said:
As a radio listener, if a station is playing what I want to hear, I will tune in regardless if it is AM or FM. With the lack of choices in Seattle, I would love to have internet capability and be able to stream stations from other cities in my car.
*insert predictably snide/sarcastic comment from TVandRadioGuru here*

Well I won't do that "snide/sarcastic" comment, but I will say this: Ever if there WAS a Seattle station that programmed everything PERFECTLY for your taste, you'd probably still complain about it.
 
SeattleRadioPro said:
Grindlfan said:
As a radio listener, if a station is playing what I want to hear, I will tune in regardless if it is AM or FM. With the lack of choices in Seattle, I would love to have internet capability and be able to stream stations from other cities in my car.
*insert predictably snide/sarcastic comment from TVandRadioGuru here*

Well I won't do that "snide/sarcastic" comment, but I will say this: Ever if there WAS a Seattle station that programmed everything PERFECTLY for your taste, you'd probably still complain about it.

Amen to that.
 
Shark said:
I've been doing that lately using Clear Channel's "I Heart Radio" app on my Blackberry. It's weird to listen to reggae on Island 98.5 in Honolulu while driving around Seattle! I've also been using the Pandora app. This could be a much bigger threat to local terrestrial radio than satellite ever was/is if it catches on.

First point on this ... I love how C/C is screaming "localism" and then offers all their properties to every other market in the universe. Now THAT is local.....isn't it?? (My beef with c/c has always been they scream stuff from San Antonio and expect us to swallow it and then do the complete opposite with their actions. That has come to light in recent months as "corporate moronship" ... where these big outfits are so insulated from reality they, apparently, are the ONLY ones who eat the verbage they spew)

Second point ... I don't understand why CBS and C/C are so excited to bring all their other market signals to a market where they are. The stations in-market have enough challenges without saying "...and here are a bunch MORE competitiors for you guys to contend with". I love it from a listener standpoint, I just don't get it from a radio "operator" perspective. Then again, they apparently don't either.
 
Shark said:
Grindlfan said:
DoubleC said:
Question if AM is dead how much longer will FM last...The younger demo is in to their Ipods & streaming....
When folks can get the Internet in Their cars as easy as radio it will NOT matter if it is AM or FM. I have seen our internet streamers Double in size as the FM dropped the music we play.

Lets See TV was going to Kill Off Radio/ Cable was going to kill off local TV/FM radio in the late 60's Early 70's was going to kill of AM radio (AM changed and is still here) Satelite radio was going to kill of regular radio, so on and so on.

Oldies on AM will do well, WHY because when I ask our listeners, does us being AM keep you from listening they say NO that is where I first heard this music.

We recently got an advertiser who was about done with radio why poor results SO how did a Lowly AM station not only win him over but change his mind on radio.....We showed him that our station targets his audience, we have tiny ratings and are overlooked buy his previous marketing folks OH they are tooooooo small and are AM....Well we put together a plan and his Sales went thru the Roof he now Loves US and sells folks on his AM winning experience and that is How ANY radio station will survive.....Their is A Beatle show coming to town and the AD buyer will not Buy The Oldies/Beatle station becasue we are AM...well a week before the show when they have poor ticket sales they will give us a call just like they did last year
some folks just don't get it and RADIO as a Whole loses

As a radio listener, if a station is playing what I want to hear, I will tune in regardless if it is AM or FM. With the lack of choices in Seattle, I would love to have internet capability and be able to stream stations from other cities in my car.
*insert predictably snide/sarcastic comment from TVandRadioGuru here*

I've been doing that lately using Clear Channel's "I Heart Radio" app on my Blackberry. It's weird to listen to reggae on Island 98.5 in Honolulu while driving around Seattle! I've also been using the Pandora app. This could be a much bigger threat to local terrestrial radio than satellite ever was/is if it catches on.

HALLELUJAH!!!! DEATH TO THE AMERICAN RADIO INDUSTRY!!!!
 
SeattleRadioPro said:
Grindlfan said:
As a radio listener, if a station is playing what I want to hear, I will tune in regardless if it is AM or FM. With the lack of choices in Seattle, I would love to have internet capability and be able to stream stations from other cities in my car.
*insert predictably snide/sarcastic comment from TVandRadioGuru here*

Well I won't do that "snide/sarcastic" comment, but I will say this: Ever if there WAS a Seattle station that programmed everything PERFECTLY for your taste, you'd probably still complain about it.
Try me.
 
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