Seattle-Tacoma PPM ratings November 2024

[fordranger797]

This sounds more like Rock leaning Classic Hits than Classic Rock.

For KZOK? If so, I would agree. There was a thread a while back all about them playing Hit me with Your Best Shot by Pat Benetar.

Not a bad song, but I’d probably call it classic hits too.

 

[Delete My Account]

I'm in the demographic these stations are supposedly aging downward to reach and I have zero desire to hear most music after the 90s on classic rock radio, and even the ones I like I'm tired of. I also love 80s music. I don't want The Jet to play a ton of the stuff I was hearing over and over on CHR, Modern AC, etc in the 90s. Those were heavy radio listening days for me, and so much of that music doesn't have that intangible "timeless" factor that I get when I'm in a business or scanning and I hear something I haven't in a while from the 80s. And by the 2000s.. there isn't ANYTHING I consider that much of a classic yet. The thought someone is going to hear N'SYNC and feel like that's a "classic" in the same way I feel hearing Creedence or Tom Petty fills me with dread.

I know, research, demographics. But I'm sorry, there is something in me that says that 3 Doors Down, Creed, and Nickelback, are NOT in the same camp as the Doors, Led Zeppelin, or the Stones. I'm not band-bashing, but there is a certain "it" factor that defines classic rock and I don't know how radio will deal with that when you get further into the late 90s/early 2000s.

I use Red Hot Chili Peppers as an example of this. They were an alternative band with funk flair. Even when they got into the slow stuff, like Under The Bridge or My Friends, it could work sonically, and to a point I can see it on KZOK. But can their stuff after remotely be "classic" or "rock?"

I guess formats are whatever they say they are. And I'm not trying to be a snob. But when I punch the "classic rock" button for KZOK, or KISM, I expect certain things, I'm in a certain mood. So I'll agree with ford here. KISM delivers on that expectation much more consistently than KZOK. And it is a factor for me that KISM's talent actually seems to have some connection to Western Washington. KZOK's trackers are in New York and Tampa, and maybe most listeners don't care, but to me, it sounds canned and doesn't connect me any more strongly to the station. If I want the classics, there's a strong signal, staffed with people who live in the region, that delivers what they promise. That's why in my mind they're the superior station.

 

[AuxRSS]

For KZOK? If so, I would agree. There was a thread a while back all about them playing Hit me with Your Best Shot by Pat Benetar.

Not a bad song, but I’d probably call it classic hits too.

On random sweeps of KZOK the past couple of months, The Outfield's "Your Love" came up a couple of times. So it's intentional - their playlist wants to mix the more mainstream classic hits (including RHCP) into the old-line classic rock playlist. It may make their music indistinguishable from the Puget Sound's 124 other AC/Rock stations, but it works in the 6+.

Speaking of Pat, check it out - that Benatar song was played at 2:58 PM just yesterday. It appears to be in the 2x daily rotation ... just like The Outfield.

 

[bobdavcav]

I'm in the demographic these stations are supposedly aging downward to reach and I have zero desire to hear most music after the 90s on classic rock radio, and even the ones I like I'm tired of. I also love 80s music. I don't want The Jet to play a ton of the stuff I was hearing over and over on CHR, Modern AC, etc in the 90s. Those were heavy radio listening days for me, and so much of that music doesn't have that intangible "timeless" factor that I get when I'm in a business or scanning and I hear something I haven't in a while from the 80s. And by the 2000s.. there isn't ANYTHING I consider that much of a classic yet. The thought someone is going to hear N'SYNC and feel like that's a "classic" in the same way I feel hearing Creedence or Tom Petty fills me with dread.

I know, research, demographics. But I'm sorry, there is something in me that says that 3 Doors Down, Creed, and Nickelback, are NOT in the same camp as the Doors, Led Zeppelin, or the Stones. I'm not band-bashing, but there is a certain "it" factor that defines classic rock and I don't know how radio will deal with that when you get further into the late 90s/early 2000s.

I use Red Hot Chili Peppers as an example of this. They were an alternative band with funk flair. Even when they got into the slow stuff, like Under The Bridge or My Friends, it could work sonically, and to a point I can see it on KZOK. But can their stuff after remotely be "classic" or "rock?"

I guess formats are whatever they say they are. And I'm not trying to be a snob. But when I punch the "classic rock" button for KZOK, or KISM, I expect certain things, I'm in a certain mood. So I'll agree with ford here. KISM delivers on that expectation much more consistently than KZOK. And it is a factor for me that KISM's talent actually seems to have some connection to Western Washington. KZOK's trackers are in New York and Tampa, and maybe most listeners don't care, but to me, it sounds canned and doesn't connect me any more strongly to the station. If I want the classics, there's a strong signal, staffed with people who live in the region, that delivers what they promise. That's why in my mind they're the superior station.

I completely agree, but I have no way of knowing whether someone 10 or more years older felt the same way about the 80s making their way onto Classic Hits stations. I've definitely heard stuff that I wouldn't add to Classic Hits on those stations, but then again, the songs I'm thinking of are now at least 25 years old, which just about makes them right for the format.

 

[fordranger797]

I'm in the demographic these stations are supposedly aging downward to reach and I have zero desire to hear most music after the 90s on classic rock radio, and even the ones I like I'm tired of. I also love 80s music. I don't want The Jet to play a ton of the stuff I was hearing over and over on CHR, Modern AC, etc in the 90s. Those were heavy radio listening days for me, and so much of that music doesn't have that intangible "timeless" factor that I get when I'm in a business or scanning and I hear something I haven't in a while from the 80s. And by the 2000s.. there isn't ANYTHING I consider that much of a classic yet. The thought someone is going to hear N'SYNC and feel like that's a "classic" in the same way I feel hearing Creedence or Tom Petty fills me with dread.

I know, research, demographics. But I'm sorry, there is something in me that says that 3 Doors Down, Creed, and Nickelback, are NOT in the same camp as the Doors, Led Zeppelin, or the Stones. I'm not band-bashing, but there is a certain "it" factor that defines classic rock and I don't know how radio will deal with that when you get further into the late 90s/early 2000s.

I use Red Hot Chili Peppers as an example of this. They were an alternative band with funk flair. Even when they got into the slow stuff, like Under The Bridge or My Friends, it could work sonically, and to a point I can see it on KZOK. But can their stuff after remotely be "classic" or "rock?"

I guess formats are whatever they say they are. And I'm not trying to be a snob. But when I punch the "classic rock" button for KZOK, or KISM, I expect certain things, I'm in a certain mood. So I'll agree with ford here. KISM delivers on that expectation much more consistently than KZOK. And it is a factor for me that KISM's talent actually seems to have some connection to Western Washington. KZOK's trackers are in New York and Tampa, and maybe most listeners don't care, but to me, it sounds canned and doesn't connect me any more strongly to the station. If I want the classics, there's a strong signal, staffed with people who live in the region, that delivers what they promise. That's why in my mind they're the superior station.

I’m with you on this. I do like a lot of 90’s rock, but there are certain classics that will always be classics (and always have at least some appeal). KISM plays some tracks that are even more modern than KZOK. I’ve heard new music on there before, and ironically, I stuck around to listen since the song seemed to fit the format. Hearing Three Doors Down on 102.5 makes me want to tune out.

Talent is a big part of this. I know there are tons of people who would argue that talent doesn’t matter, but I would rather listen to a station that is staffed with real local people who get the community, take some comments from local listeners, and talk about what’s going on. That just doesn’t happen on KZOK anymore.

 

[fordranger797]

I completely agree, but I have no way of knowing whether someone 10 or more years older felt the same way about the 80s making their way onto Classic Hits stations. I've definitely heard stuff that I wouldn't add to Classic Hits on those stations, but then again, the songs I'm thinking of are now at least 25 years old, which just about makes them right for the format.

I can understand certain tracks making their way to classic hits. But to me (as as someone in their late twenties), I tune in to a station like 95.7 for 80’s hits. That’s the music I like, and that’s why I’m there. A track or two by alanis morisette or Maroon 5 won’t kill me, but it’s not really what I’m there for.

It will be interesting to see how different radio stations handle this. KOLA in the inland empire started airing Ke$ha in their rotation. That’s an immediate tune out for me. If it had been a Ed Sheeran or Taylor swift, I’d argue it would actually be far less polarizing. I was in high school when ke$ha was popular (as were you), and even then a lot of people couldn’t stand her music lol

 

[KilowattKat]

I’m with you on this. I do like a lot of 90’s rock, but there are certain classics that will always be classics (and always have at least some appeal). KISM plays some tracks that are even more modern than KZOK. I’ve heard new music on there before, and ironically, I stuck around to listen since the song seemed to fit the format. Hearing Three Doors Down on 102.5 makes me want to tune out.

Talent is a big part of this. I know there are tons of people who would argue that talent doesn’t matter, but I would rather listen to a station that is staffed with real local people who get the community, take some comments from local listeners, and talk about what’s going on. That just doesn’t happen on KZOK anymore.

KZOK does extremely well in the 18-34 age group. So that group is new to the songs that for someone my age, are burnt to a crisp. I grew up with AOR in the late 70's and 80's. The playlist you posted earlier are the biggest AOR hits that were overplayed, and became tiresome way back then. By 1985, a song like 'Stairway To Heaven' was a tuneout factor for me, If I hear that one more time, I'm going to jump off a cliff!

Which is why nowadays, Classic Rock is an unlistenable format to me.

 

[LITTLEBOYBLUE]

I use Red Hot Chili Peppers as an example of this. They were an alternative band with funk flair. Even when they got into the slow stuff, like Under The Bridge or My Friends, it could work sonically, and to a point I can see it on KZOK. But can their stuff after remotely be "classic" or "rock?"

I often wonder if the RHCP didn't exist ... would "The End" be Country or Smooth Jazz??! Yee Gods they sure love that band....

 

[fordranger797]

I often wonder if the RHCP didn't exist ... would "The End" be Country or Smooth Jazz??! Yee Gods they sure love that band....

I liked that band… until it was beaten to death. Same for Nirvana.

 

[DMK]

I've found KISM to be quite listenable, even in my old stomping grounds of Pierce County. There are some rough spots, but it's one of the few distant stations that you could reasonably listen to if you wanted to.

I'm 29, but I'm a fan of all rock music. I love 60's rock, but I completely understand that it's not entirely marketable to the larger audience in 2024 (which is what we'd all expect). I'm also a fan of rock music from the 80's and 90's, but hearing the same songs over and over again gets old. That's not controversial, and most would probably agree.

In the last hour, KZOK played the following

Hey You - Pink Flord
Dream On - Aerosmith
Separate Ways - Journey
Somebody to Love - Queen
Ramble On - Led Zeppelin
Good Riddance - Green Day
No More Tears - Ozzy Osbourne
Free Fallin - Tom Petty
My Hero - Foo Fighters
Every Breath you Take - The Police

These are all good songs (and they certainly all fit the format), but I'd venture the bet that you'd probably hear them all tomorrow too. KISM absolutely does a better job of mixing in other songs from the same artist, to keep things fresh. I can't recall everything they played on my drive too and from work this week, but a few notable tracks go as follows:

Hush - Deep Purple
Woman in Love - Tom Petty
Rock and Roll Fantasy - Bad Company
Billy Squire - In the Dark

There are many others, but you get the point. I recall KZOK playing many (if not most) of these songs in recent years, but they've stopped. They play the most common classic rock songs that you'd probably list if prompted. I get why they do it, but it's pretty stale. The argument about classic rock radio stations should play (or should not play) has been rehashed over and over again. I'm not getting into that, but I definitely think that the KISM approach is reasonable. Nothing too "out there," play all the big hits that people expect to hear, and mix in some songs that were also big to keep the playlist fresh.

It will be interesting to see what happens with the morning show situation. Are/were the listeners there because of the morning show? I fell into that camp. I am curious to see if the numbers start to drop at all. We talk a lot on Radio Discussions about the importance of radio programming that targets men. Personalities are a part of that. KZOK has been very lucky with their morning on-air talent.

Commenting on the list of songs you heard.

In the last hour, KZOK played the following

Hey You - Pink Flord An underrated song in their catalogue.
Dream On - Aerosmith Way overplayed.
Separate Ways - Journey Far better songs in their catalogue. Where's "Be Good to Yourself" or "Only the Young."
Somebody to Love - Queen
Ramble On - Led Zeppelin
Good Riddance - Green Day
No More Tears - Ozzy Osbourne This song seems to be in heavy rotation these days (not so over the past decade).
Free Fallin - Tom Petty Way Way Way overplayed. Far better songs in his catalogue.
My Hero - Foo Fighters
Every Breath you Take - The Police

KZOK used to brag about having the largest library on the Seattle radio. It sure doesn't sound like that anymore.

 

[davideduardo]

It will be interesting to see how different radio stations handle this. KOLA in the inland empire started airing Ke$ha in their rotation. That’s an immediate tune out for me. If it had been a Ed Sheeran or Taylor swift, I’d argue it would actually be far less polarizing. I was in high school when ke$ha was popular (as were you), and even then a lot of people couldn’t stand her music lol

IIRC, you are in the Pacific Northwest. The Inland Empire is now predominantly Hispanic, with most being second or later generation. That group considerably influence the flavor of KOLA just as it influenced CHR stations 20 to 40 years ago. So it's understandable that its blend might not match your own area of the country particularly well, but it works magnificently in the Riverside/San Bernardino MSA.

 

[fordranger797]

IIRC, you are in the Pacific Northwest. The Inland Empire is now predominantly Hispanic, with most being second or later generation. That group considerably influence the flavor of KOLA just as it influenced CHR stations 20 to 40 years ago. So it's understandable that its blend might not match your own area of the country particularly well, but it works magnificently in the Riverside/San Bernardino MSA.

I’m not disagreeing. Every city will have its own unique preferences based on the population. I just find it interesting that an artist who made a handful of pretty bad songs (and now who is almost completely irrelevant) made it into the playlist of a classic hits radio station.

I don’t think many people have thought about Ke$ha at all in over a decade.

 

[fordranger797]

Commenting on the list of songs you heard.

In the last hour, KZOK played the following

Hey You - Pink Flord An underrated song in their catalogue.
Dream On - Aerosmith Way overplayed.
Separate Ways - Journey Far better songs in their catalogue. Where's "Be Good to Yourself" or "Only the Young."
Somebody to Love - Queen
Ramble On - Led Zeppelin
Good Riddance - Green Day
No More Tears - Ozzy Osbourne This song seems to be in heavy rotation these days (not so over the past decade).
Free Fallin - Tom Petty Way Way Way overplayed. Far better songs in his catalogue.
My Hero - Foo Fighters
Every Breath you Take - The Police

KZOK used to brag about having the largest library on the Seattle radio. It sure doesn't sound like that anymore.

It definitely doesn’t sound like that now. 95.7 is pretty much wide, but that hasn’t translated to 102.5. I don’t mind hearing the most popular/common song from an artist from time to time if other tracks from the same artist also receive some attention, but that doesn’t really happen on KZOK anymore. You get a few core songs, and that’s basically it.

 

[DMK]

IIRC, you are in the Pacific Northwest. The Inland Empire is now predominantly Hispanic, with most being second or later generation. That group considerably influence the flavor of KOLA just as it influenced CHR stations 20 to 40 years ago. So it's understandable that its blend might not match your own area of the country particularly well, but it works magnificently in the Riverside/San Bernardino MSA.

In an era of corporate radio knowing there's some regionalism of playlists might be one silver lining to the whole equation.

 

[The New Chico]

The reason you are hearing the occasional new song/artist on KISM is that they are trying to extend the life of the format. They only play these songs during the mid day and afternoon shows, and fewer than once an hour. Yesterday the PM jock tied a new artist to AC/DC by mentiong their influence on said artist. It is not dumb, and is very calculated. A lot of classic rock artists are geriatric or dead- they are not releasing new singles. KISM/Saga are gently trying to introduce a little new blood into the sound without alienating listeners. Time will tell, but more power to them for trying.

I do not know if other Saga CR stations are also following this model or if KISM is a test bed here.

Definitely an advantage of being a smaller market operation- not sure a market 12 CR station would feel comfortable taking that risk.

 

[fordranger797]

The reason you are hearing the occasional new song/artist on KISM is that they are trying to extend the life of the format. They only play these songs during the mid day and afternoon shows, and fewer than once an hour. Yesterday the PM jock tied a new artist to AC/DC by mentiong their influence on said artist. It is not dumb, and is very calculated. A lot of classic rock artists are geriatric or dead- they are not releasing new singles. KISM/Saga are gently trying to introduce a little new blood into the sound without alienating listeners. Time will tell, but more power to them for trying.

I do not know if other Saga CR stations are also following this model or if KISM is a test bed here.

Definitely an advantage of being a smaller market operation- not sure a market 12 CR station would feel comfortable taking that risk.

I can’t blame a major market station for not wanting to take the risk on anything new. That’s understandable and probably pretty wise.

I’m definitely not sure that I would call it risky to mix in a few songs that absolutely are well known from popular artists though. I think KZOK sees this strategy as a liability, and they just won’t do it. I would never suggest that they dive into a bunch of obscure music, but we definitely don’t hear anything other than the most common (few) songs from each artist at this point. It is stale beyond belief.

If the goal is to prevent people from tuning out, it’s important to be considerate of the playlist not being too wide (not make anybody wonder what they’re listening to). At the same time, I think it’s probably also possible for it to be too narrow, where some listeners feel like they’re hearing the same thing every day. I definitely like the happy medium approach on KISM. It’s not boring, nor is it a programmer’s nightmare of obscurity.

 

[DMK]

I can’t blame a major market station for not wanting to take the risk on anything new. That’s understandable and probably pretty wise.

I’m definitely not sure that I would call it risky to mix in a few songs that absolutely are well known from popular artists though. I think KZOK sees this strategy as a liability, and they just won’t do it. I would never suggest that they dive into a bunch of obscure music, but we definitely don’t hear anything other than the most common (few) songs from each artist at this point. It is stale beyond belief.

If the goal is to prevent people from tuning out, it’s important to be considerate of the playlist not being too wide (not make anybody wonder what they’re listening to). At the same time, I think it’s probably also possible for it to be too narrow, where some listeners feel like they’re hearing the same thing every day. I definitely like the happy medium approach on KISM. It’s not boring, nor is it a programmer’s nightmare of obscurity.

I agree KISM seems to strike a good balance in their playlist. A good example from today. They played Dangerous Type by the Cars off their classic 1979 album Candy-O. I can't say I've heard that song on KISM before. I think you can dig a little deeper in an artists catalogue. At one time KZOK had an HD channel of deep cuts.

 

[TexasTom]

IIRC, you are in the Pacific Northwest. The Inland Empire is now predominantly Hispanic, with most being second or later generation. That group considerably influence the flavor of KOLA just as it influenced CHR stations 20 to 40 years ago. So it's understandable that its blend might not match your own area of the country particularly well, but it works magnificently in the Riverside/San Bernardino MSA.

Your reference to the Inland Empire through me for a moment -- because the Pacific Northwest does have an Inland Empire of its own, referring to the area surrounding Spokane. I didn't find out until many years later that there was another Inland Empire in Southern California.

 

[semoochie]

Your reference to the Inland Empire through me for a moment -- because the Pacific Northwest does have an Inland Empire of its own, referring to the area surrounding Spokane. I didn't find out until many years later that there was another Inland Empire in Southern California.

...and I had never heard Spokane called that. I suspect that they borrowed the term from Southern California.

 

[fordranger797]

I agree KISM seems to strike a good balance in their playlist. A good example from today. They played Dangerous Type by the Cars off their classic 1979 album Candy-O. I can't say I've heard that song on KISM before. I think you can dig a little deeper in an artists catalogue. At one time KZOK had an HD channel of deep cuts.

Great song (as a side note). I can’t say that I’ve heard ANY song from The Cars on KZOK in a long time. I’m not sure they made the cut. I’m not sure I follow the logic of why, but okay.