Seeking clarification re: WKNR/GKB

[natureboy88]

Is it just speculation that WKNR/Good Karma Broadcasting is partially funded by Joe Goldhammer?
It seems pretty obvious that Mel K is one of the backers, but is it verified that Aaron's dad is invested in the station as well?

Additionally, anyone know what % of what Rizzo got as part of his deal?  Is it a piece of GKB overall or just the two local stations?

Last thought--think Jim Rome is being somewhat diplomatic about the first hour of his show being bumped to KNR2 to stay in the good graces of Mel? I have to figure satellite is the best bargaining chip Rome has with CC.

Looking forward to Monday...

 

[vjm]

Is it just speculation that WKNR/Good Karma Broadcasting is partially funded by Joe Goldhammer?
It seems pretty obvious that Mel K is one of the backers, but is it verified that Aaron's dad is invested in the station as well?

Additionally, anyone know what % of what Rizzo got as part of his deal? Is it a piece of GKB overall or just the two local stations?

Last thought--think Jim Rome is being somewhat diplomatic about the first hour of his show being bumped to KNR2 to stay in the good graces of Mel? I have to figure satellite is the best bargaining chip Rome has with CC.

Looking forward to Monday...

1. There is no written, verified proof that Joe Goldhammer owns a piece of GKB, but the fact that Aaron runs around like he's untouchable, and that nobody is willing to reign him in, seems to indicate that...well...if it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck...

2. Rizzo owns a piece of GKB as a whole (anywhere in the 5-10% range). He not that long ago took a tour of all the other GKB stations (in Wisconsin and in West Palm Beach), so if he was just overseeing 850/1540, he wouldn't have needed to take the road trip.

3. Jim Rome is a professional, and he knows that burning bridges helps no one. Nonetheless, he is none too happy about the noon hour going to KNR2, but the contract comes up in a few months, so I will guarentee you this...the current arrangement will not last too much longer. Something's gonna give.

 

[kosar]

I have to believe that GKB doesn't have intentions of renewing with Rome, for whatever reason. They had to have known that the stunt of moving the first hour to KNR2 (for tRBS Amateur Hour) was going to burn the renewal bridge.

If GKB thinks they can survive that and renew, well, they are dumber than I already think they are.

@923thefan

 

[zrl]

I have to believe that GKB doesn't have intentions of renewing with Rome, for whatever reason. They had to have known that the stunt of moving the first hour to KNR2 (for tRBS Amateur Hour) was going to burn the renewal bridge.

IMO- Jim Rome will try real hard to get his whole show cleared on 850, but if Craig stands firm is his foolishness Romey will stay put because there is no where else for the jungle to go.

CBS does LOCAL sports talk & have their schedule filled out. Can't see them cutting Baskin to 10AM-Noon so soon out of the gate, (unless Baskin himself wants to cut back-- and since he's been in the business awhile I doubt he'd pull such a stunt) Nor would they cut back Adam the Bull's first hour.

As far as 'MMS taking Rome, that would require some exec at Clear Channel to think "out of the box" and put a sports show on a hot-talk/ rock hydrid, and CC execs don't take many risks.

Basically if Rome/Premiere are willing to make WARF in Akron their de-facto Cleveland affiliate they might leave 'KNR just to spite Craig, but I don't see that in the cards.

 

[natureboy88]

There was a time when tRBS was good that Rizzo would joke about going to sattelite radio. Plus they would fill in for Jim Rome on vacation. I wondered if a situation similar to Mad Dog Radio could have worked out with Rome, some of his guys and some shows from GKB filling most of the day.

Maybe it was just the idea of 'Jungle Karma' radio that was stuck in my head...

 

[Rusty Muck]

The wild card is KNR2's future.

I can't see Craig K. keeping that money bleeder beyond the end of the year. Not just because he lost the FSR affil, but primarly because he can no longer be able to sell WKNR as the "only source for all-sports in Cleveland" (let alone the two-for-one ad buys with 850 and 1540). That 1540 facility likely had higher ratings and prestige when it was WABQ and aired gospel music.

Craig K. will have to either lease it out or flip it to ESPN Deportes in order to save his bacon. But to a point.

That leads to another problem: when KNR2 goes bye-bye, the last hour of "Mike and Mike," the first hour of Rome, and the morning show with Munch that no one can tune into will all be stranded. Suddenly, GKB has an angry Premiere Radio Networks AND an angry ESPN Radio on their hands.

It is NOT infeasible, IMO, to see WKNR dismiss "R&R" and move tRBS to the 3p-6p slot. Then, truncate the midday show back to a 10a-12p slot, and move Munch down there (cancelling the 5a show altogether). The last hour of "M&M" and the first hour of Rome move back on 850, and all parties act as if nothing ever happened.

And moving tRBS will probably inflate Aaron's insufferable ego further, but tRBS will be demolished by Adam the Bull and Dustin Fox on 92.3, Triv on 1100 and a resurgent Alan Cox on 100.7 (it's not hard to see 92.3 actually boost 100.7's "man cave" format, especially the inevitable channel flipping that will take place between 'Kiley and Booms' vs. Rover, and 'Bull and Fox' vs. Alan Cox).

 

[vjm]

The wild card is KNR2's future.

I can't see Craig K. keeping that money bleeder beyond the end of the year. Not just because he lost the FSR affil, but primarly because he can no longer be able to sell WKNR as the "only source for all-sports in Cleveland" (let alone the two-for-one ad buys with 850 and 1540). That 1540 facility likely had higher ratings and prestige when it was WABQ and aired gospel music.

Craig K. will have to either lease it out or flip it to ESPN Deportes in order to save his bacon. But to a point.

That leads to another problem: when KNR2 goes bye-bye, the last hour of "Mike and Mike," the first hour of Rome, and the morning show with Munch that no one can tune into will all be stranded. Suddenly, GKB has an angry Premiere Radio Networks AND an angry ESPN Radio on their hands.

It is NOT infeasible, IMO, to see WKNR dismiss "R&R" and move tRBS to the 3p-6p slot. Then, truncate the midday show back to a 10a-12p slot, and move Munch down there (cancelling the 5a show altogether). The last hour of "M&M" and the first hour of Rome move back on 850, and all parties act as if nothing ever happened.

And moving tRBS will probably inflate Aaron's insufferable ego further, but tRBS will be demolished by Adam the Bull and Dustin Fox on 92.3, Triv on 1100 and a resurgent Alan Cox on 100.7 (it's not hard to see 92.3 actually boost 100.7's "man cave" format, especially the inevitable channel flipping that will take place between 'Kiley and Booms' vs. Rover, and 'Bull and Fox' vs. Alan Cox).

I don't see 1540 going Deportes.

If anything, it'll just be ESPN Radio sign on-sign off...just as it was when GKB flipped it in the first place.

And I just can't see RBS going to PMD. Not in the late fall/early winter when you'll lose some length on the 50Kw signal.

If anything, they might air Jim Rome on a 1 hour delay (1-4) and have Munch go 4-6 leading into "Browns Daily" and "Xs and Os" (expanded to 7-10).

Regardless, R&R may not have too long of a future.

 

[Tim]

Seems to me WKNR might consider:

6am-9am Mike & Mike
9am-N tRBS
N-3pm Jim Rome
3pm-mt. stay the same as now.

KNR2, as Nathan suggests...run ESPN s/on to s/off & streaming. (Heck, you can listen to ESPN Radio's 24 hour stream from their website any way, but don't know how many people know that.

But, as usual: ad selling revenues is as big a concern as audience erosion to The Fan.

I imagine GKB would love to sell 1540....but, in this economy, not many stations are selling unless at fire-sale type prices.

Surely there's enough smart people at KNR who figured sooner or later SOMEBODY would go sports on FM, wouldn't you think? Maybe they assumed it'd be themselves eventually buying an FM and simulcasting 850...not CBS or CC competitor switching to sports.

 

[Tim L]

Even if WKNR wanted to do FM sportstalk..They wouldnt have have the resources to buy any kind of decent FM for a simulcast because the longer they waited, the harder it would be to buy any station that would help them in a simulcast situation.

It really saddens me..I thought when Good Karma bought KNR, you would have a decent sportstalk brand that would grow with Cleveland, but they just didnt care to do it right..Salem would be preferable to what's there now, and they werent even known for sportstalk..

 

[ClevelandDZ]

Fact is, GKB had a chance to lock the market down, but failed to do so with questionable programming decisions. Now, it's time to see what 92.3 can bring to the table in direct competition. Obviously, WKNR's audience will suffer drastically this week as everyone runs to checkout 'The Fan' - but it's then up to CBS to keep those listeners long-term, which is harder than it sounds.

I would imaging the suits at GKB are coming up with a counter strategy as we speak. They're not just going to roll over and give up half to three-quarters of their audience without making WKRK earn it.

I guess in the end, sports fans in Cleveland win as both stations will have to bring their 'A' game on a daily basis to keep their listenership from wondering what's on the 'other' station...

 

[Rusty Muck]

Fact is, GKB had a chance to lock the market down, but failed to do so with questionable programming decisions. Now, it's time to see what 92.3 can bring to the table in direct competition. Obviously, WKNR's audience will suffer drastically this week as everyone runs to checkout 'The Fan' - but it's then up to CBS to keep those listeners long-term, which is harder than it sounds.

I would imaging the suits at GKB are coming up with a counter strategy as we speak. They're not just going to roll over and give up half to three-quarters of their audience without making WKRK earn it.

I guess in the end, sports fans in Cleveland win as both stations will have to bring their 'A' game on a daily basis to keep their listenership from wondering what's on the 'other' station...

Don't forget WMMS. I betcha that they have been getting ready to do serious combat with "The Fan" via their man-cave format.

If you think about it, by having kept the music block with Maria, it now serves as counter-programming vs. WKNR and WKRK - and I would not be surprised to see Alan Cox step his game up big-time against "The Bull and The Fox" and actually benefit from the 92.3 switch, as people will now be more likely to flip between 92.3 and 100.7. Plus, WMMS still has the Browns rights.

WKRK may not be a hit out of the park. Yes, it enjoy technical advantages that WKNR doesn't have (being on FM, having a listenable signal at night, actual resources with CBS), and will pick up many listeners so turned off by WKNR's programming approach. Ol' 850 is in the position that they are in because they rested on their laurels as "Cleveland's default all-sports station" and never expected CBS to pull off something like this.

Do I think WKNR can change or adept to consultants? I don't know. First things first, the blatant cronyism from the "Bratty Bunch" should be abolished. tRBS is so poorly run, and is in serious trouble unless they undergo a dramatic overhaul. I just have serious doubts that they can ever change. Does Craig K. really have any intestinal fortitude to make the changes he needs to save his station, or, as we see with the Aaron Goldhammer situation, could he totally be impotent to the directives of Joe Goldhammer?

When Aaron gets fired or reassigned to West Palm Beach, that will be Earth-shattering news, and utterly impossible at best. Aaron's the type of person that would preside over a station's demise for pure ego purposes.

Some parts of WKRK's lineup intrigue me. I have some big question marks about several shows, but others (Adam the Bull, Ken Carman) are bone-fide solid hires. That being said, it would not be a shock to see some parts of the lineup change quite a bit before next April. Being newer doesn't guarantee skyrocketing to #1 in the ratings, with "Z100" as the classic exception to the rule.

And yet, if WKNR still continues to churn out a substandard talk product and doesn't make the changes they must (i.e., keeping the "Bratty Bunch" cronyism intact), they risk getting utterly flattened by both WKRK and WMMS.

 

[vjm]

Poppa Joe needs to buy a station in Denver, let Aaron be GM/PD/AMD host/Chief Bottle Washer and be done with it.

 

[ClevelandDZ]

Fact is, GKB had a chance to lock the market down, but failed to do so with questionable programming decisions. Now, it's time to see what 92.3 can bring to the table in direct competition. Obviously, WKNR's audience will suffer drastically this week as everyone runs to checkout 'The Fan' - but it's then up to CBS to keep those listeners long-term, which is harder than it sounds.

I would imaging the suits at GKB are coming up with a counter strategy as we speak. They're not just going to roll over and give up half to three-quarters of their audience without making WKRK earn it.

I guess in the end, sports fans in Cleveland win as both stations will have to bring their 'A' game on a daily basis to keep their listenership from wondering what's on the 'other' station...

Don't forget WMMS. I betcha that they have been getting ready to do serious combat with "The Fan" via their man-cave format.

If you think about it, by having kept the music block with Maria, it now serves as counter-programming vs. WKNR and WKRK - and I would not be surprised to see Alan Cox step his game up big-time against "The Bull and The Fox" and actually benefit from the 92.3 switch, as people will now be more likely to flip between 92.3 and 100.7. Plus, WMMS still has the Browns rights.

WKRK may not be a hit out of the park. Yes, it enjoy technical advantages that WKNR doesn't have (being on FM, having a listenable signal at night, actual resources with CBS), and will pick up many listeners so turned off by WKNR's programming approach. Ol' 850 is in the position that they are in because they rested on their laurels as "Cleveland's default all-sports station" and never expected CBS to pull off something like this.

Do I think WKNR can change or adept to consultants? I don't know. First things first, the blatant cronyism from the "Bratty Bunch" should be abolished. tRBS is so poorly run, and is in serious trouble unless they undergo a dramatic overhaul. I just have serious doubts that they can ever change. Does Craig K. really have any intestinal fortitude to make the changes he needs to save his station, or, as we see with the Aaron Goldhammer situation, could he totally be impotent to the directives of Joe Goldhammer?

When Aaron gets fired or reassigned to West Palm Beach, that will be Earth-shattering news, and utterly impossible at best. Aaron's the type of person that would preside over a station's demise for pure ego purposes.

Some parts of WKRK's lineup intrigue me. I have some big question marks about several shows, but others (Adam the Bull, Ken Carman) are bone-fide solid hires. That being said, it would not be a shock to see some parts of the lineup change quite a bit before next April. Being newer doesn't guarantee skyrocketing to #1 in the ratings, with "Z100" as the classic exception to the rule.

And yet, if WKNR still continues to churn out a substandard talk product and doesn't make the changes they must (i.e., keeping the "Bratty Bunch" cronyism intact), they risk getting utterly flattened by both WKRK and WMMS.

Yeah, those would be the 'questionable programming decisions' I mentioned. WKNR took the best property they have (Tony Rizzo) and ran it into the ground with 2 co-hosts that people just can't stand when together (beter in a single dose) and said, basically, "Shut up Cleveland and like this.". Well, Cleveland doesn't like it, and GKB can do all the listener surveys and focus panels they want, people are fed up and tired of that trainwreck from 9-1.

I would imagine that the WKNR counter-programming schedule will soon take shape. They have to address tRBS and get it tightened up, and they have to fix 'Afternoon R&R' because it's become a parody of itself. Reghi is a great 'after game' or 'pre game' host...but not a talk show host. And Roda is getting more and more cynical as the months go by (ie: the Jim Thome situation).

Neither one of those two guys are helping 'KNR against Triv, F & B, or AC. That's the spot WKNR needs fresh blood. Afternoon Drive. And no, Greg Brinda with a new 3-6pm talk show is not fresh blood.......

 

[kosar]

Fact is, GKB had a chance to lock the market down, but failed to do so with questionable programming decisions. Now, it's time to see what 92.3 can bring to the table in direct competition. Obviously, WKNR's audience will suffer drastically this week as everyone runs to checkout 'The Fan' - but it's then up to CBS to keep those listeners long-term, which is harder than it sounds.

I would imaging the suits at GKB are coming up with a counter strategy as we speak. They're not just going to roll over and give up half to three-quarters of their audience without making WKRK earn it.

I guess in the end, sports fans in Cleveland win as both stations will have to bring their 'A' game on a daily basis to keep their listenership from wondering what's on the 'other' station...

Don't forget WMMS. I betcha that they have been getting ready to do serious combat with "The Fan" via their man-cave format.

If you think about it, by having kept the music block with Maria, it now serves as counter-programming vs. WKNR and WKRK - and I would not be surprised to see Alan Cox step his game up big-time against "The Bull and The Fox" and actually benefit from the 92.3 switch, as people will now be more likely to flip between 92.3 and 100.7. Plus, WMMS still has the Browns rights.

WKRK may not be a hit out of the park. Yes, it enjoy technical advantages that WKNR doesn't have (being on FM, having a listenable signal at night, actual resources with CBS), and will pick up many listeners so turned off by WKNR's programming approach. Ol' 850 is in the position that they are in because they rested on their laurels as "Cleveland's default all-sports station" and never expected CBS to pull off something like this.

Do I think WKNR can change or adept to consultants? I don't know. First things first, the blatant cronyism from the "Bratty Bunch" should be abolished. tRBS is so poorly run, and is in serious trouble unless they undergo a dramatic overhaul. I just have serious doubts that they can ever change. Does Craig K. really have any intestinal fortitude to make the changes he needs to save his station, or, as we see with the Aaron Goldhammer situation, could he totally be impotent to the directives of Joe Goldhammer?

When Aaron gets fired or reassigned to West Palm Beach, that will be Earth-shattering news, and utterly impossible at best. Aaron's the type of person that would preside over a station's demise for pure ego purposes.

Some parts of WKRK's lineup intrigue me. I have some big question marks about several shows, but others (Adam the Bull, Ken Carman) are bone-fide solid hires. That being said, it would not be a shock to see some parts of the lineup change quite a bit before next April. Being newer doesn't guarantee skyrocketing to #1 in the ratings, with "Z100" as the classic exception to the rule.

And yet, if WKNR still continues to churn out a substandard talk product and doesn't make the changes they must (i.e., keeping the "Bratty Bunch" cronyism intact), they risk getting utterly flattened by both WKRK and WMMS.

Yeah, those would be the 'questionable programming decisions' I mentioned. WKNR took the best property they have (Tony Rizzo) and ran it into the ground with 2 co-hosts that people just can't stand when together (beter in a single dose) and said, basically, "Shut up Cleveland and like this.". Well, Cleveland doesn't like it, and GKB can do all the listener surveys and focus panels they want, people are fed up and tired of that trainwreck from 9-1.

I would imagine that the WKNR counter-programming schedule will soon take shape. They have to address tRBS and get it tightened up, and they have to fix 'Afternoon R&R' because it's become a parody of itself. Reghi is a great 'after game' or 'pre game' host...but not a talk show host. And Roda is getting more and more cynical as the months go by (ie: the Jim Thome situation).

Neither one of those two guys are helping 'KNR against Triv, F & B, or AC. That's the spot WKNR needs fresh blood. Afternoon Drive. And no, Greg Brinda with a new 3-6pm talk show is not fresh blood.......

Great post, among others.

+1

 

[vjm]

KNR2 1540 has now officially lost FSR as of today, and as expected has replaced it with further ESPN Radio programming (Doug Gottlieb in PMD, and on down the line until sign off).

 

[kmt]

I keep reading how Rizzo's two cronies have driven the show into the ground. Does anyone have any ratings information that supports this statement. From just one year ago are more adult men listening or less? From just one year ago has the revenue generated by this show increased.

From the semi-meaningless 6+ numbers, KNR performed better than they had for the prior six months (except for an exceptional May).

I'm not making any editorial comments, just interested in some facts. I'd also love to hear about the daypart breakdowns as I think the PM drive show may be more of a disaster than middays.

 

[Rusty Muck]

I keep reading how Rizzo's two cronies have driven the show into the ground. Does anyone have any ratings information that supports this statement. From just one year ago are more adult men listening or less? From just one year ago has the revenue generated by this show increased.

From the semi-meaningless 6+ numbers, KNR performed better than they had for the prior six months (except for an exceptional May).

I'm not making any editorial comments, just interested in some facts. I'd also love to hear about the daypart breakdowns as I think the PM drive show may be more of a disaster than middays.

Ratings are not the easiest judgement for a show like tRBS.

For one, the midday slot encompasses the 10am-3pm slot entirely, which means it missed the first hour of tRBS and has the two hours of Rome (that WKNR still bothers to air) lumped together. I've seen the 250+ Spring Arbs, and there's no way to judge how doesn't listen to tRBS and tune in when Rome 'starts' at 1pm, or vice versa. Hour-by-hour breakdowns don't exist (which stinks, because I'd like to see how tRBS fares against the last two hours of Rover, the last hour of Lanigan, and if there is a massive drop off at noon when Aaron and Fedor get more dominating than their normal odious selves).

Bringing me to my point. tRBS gets "ratings" because it was the only show in town on what was then the default sports station in town. There is no valid way to have judged the show's performance, because Rover, Lanigan, Glenn and Rush are incompatible to what Rizz' intended target demo is (supposedly, at least according to Aaron Goldhammer, it's always been the Radio Disney female teenybopper crowd).

But over to the "having driven tRBS into the ground." It's both literal and figurative. There is no question that tRBS is probably the worst sports talk show in the entire city, and one of the worst in the entire country (outside of LA sports apologists Steve Hartman and Victor Jacobs, who host FSR's abysmal afternoon offering). The shame of it is, Craig K's two cronies - not Rizzo's; Rizz never cared for Goldhammer at all and even confessed as such one day - have indeed ruined tRBS. But, again, there had been no competition whatsoever, so even regardless of Aaron and Fedor's antics, people more felt FORCED to listen.

I get irritated when people tell me that people still flock to a live remote that has Rizzo as the centerpiece. Means nothing in my book. Just because he was successful on TV8 doesn't mean that they all bother to listen to tRBS - for all we know, they never even bothered to listen to tRBS, and only know him as the TV8 sportscaster. Or, they deeply respect Rizz, but refuse to listen to tRBS because it IS such a mess.

Another misconception is, "tRBS won't suffer a ratings dropoff even with 92.3, because people still want to listen to Rizzo! Because, well... he's Tony Rizzo from Fox 8!" He may be the host, but that makes him responsible for the whole show. All things equal, tRBS should be called "The Midday Cluster[expletive] Starring Aaron, Fedor and a bit of Rizzo." But it never has been.

The Rizz of today is a pale shadow of the Rizz on WHK in the mid-90s.

As per the other question, yes, Reghi and Roda are in deep ratings doo-doo. They never competed against Triv to begin with, so what makes anyone think that they could survive going up against "Bull and Fox?"

"Mike and Mike" is a dead morning show walking.

 

[Rusty Muck]

It's come to this.

And this.

 

[kmt]

It's come to this.

And this.

Nathan:

I guess their search for interns didn't pan out... now they will have to pay someone!

I didn't realize that hour by hour ratings weren't available, that certainly would be interesting.

As a former programmer I believe that KNR can improve it's ratings by also posting an ad for a creative production director. Radio listeners like a variety of voices (hence the morning team), and with all of the same voices doing shows and commercials (plus live reads) the station gets very tired sounding. I believe we call that radio fatigue

The Fan apparently realizes this as their live reads (at least so far) are pretty minimal... and they have made sure to have multiple voices in the key day parts. It is quite clear that Adam the Bull can handle the show by himself if they wanted. They probably added Dustin as another voice and also to help Adam get thru a five hour show. Five hour talk shows are tough on the hosts if they don't have assistance. Dustin Fox seems to be getting better every day... but I'd a little processing to his mike.

Have you seen any weekly PPM's yet?

I would also predict that eventually the strain of doing TV and radio will burn Andy Baskin out... do you think Ken Carmen would be the replacement?

You commented about KNR possibly getting an FM signal. What do you think (at this time) an FM station in Cleveland would cost? Shrinking market and shrinking revenue, etc.?

Finally, you pointed out that the :00 updates on The Fan do not have any music beds, while the :20 and :40 do. From a programming standpoint I can't think of any logic for this? Any ideas!