Selling Radio for those that don't sell

[b-turner]

On this board I read a good number of responses from posters that don't understand how we sell radio. I figured I might give you an idea of what we do.

Radio is not selling a tangible product. You are selling what cannot be see nor touched. We sell to business owners and agencies that have been hired to take care of marketing for that business. Everyone knows they need to advertise. Imagine this: you need a home to live in. Now I have to be that home you select. Much goes in to that. I have to be in the right neighborhood, have the perks you want in the home and I have to be affordable for you. Beyond that I have to stand out against every other home out there. Every home out there is trying to get that family in their home. I can't sell you if you don't know about my home.

In a nutshell you begin by meeting the business owner and learning about their business. You learn about the owner personally and their schedule. If they're checking in an order Tuesday morning, it's not a good idea to try to meet. You visit regularly exchanging ideas from notes you took, building trust and a relationship as you go. After several visits you both know one another and you can submit a proposal for advertising that matches their budget, their goals and what they like.

To say a salesperson can sell ice door to door in the Arctic is a great joke punchline. In reality they are saying the person reads people so well they can customize their proposal with extreme accuracy.

Regardless of your sales skills you will never sell anybody what they don't want and don't like. Anybody that would try that is surely lacking the ethics and credibility needed to maintain a sales position. Even a car salesperson isn't going to try to force you to buy a pick up when you're looking for a subcompact car. People buy what they want and like, period.

Selling agencies is a different type of sale. Here the ratings matter and cost per thousand matter. If your cost per thousand is too high, you might have a great product but they are hired to manage their client's marketing getting them the biggest bang for their client's dollar. You get preference by working to help the agency. If you can better their cost per thousand or offer a creative touch to their campaign, such goes far in getting the sale. If the agency knows you are doing more than just taking an order but also working for their continued success, it is much easier to be on that buy sheet.

 

[ZantennaG1]

On this board I read a good number of responses from posters that don't understand how we sell radio. I figured I might give you an idea of what we do.

Radio is not selling a tangible product. You are selling what cannot be see nor touched. We sell to business owners and agencies that have been hired to take care of marketing for that business. Everyone knows they need to advertise. Imagine this: you need a home to live in. Now I have to be that home you select. Much goes in to that. I have to be in the right neighborhood, have the perks you want in the home and I have to be affordable for you. Beyond that I have to stand out against every other home out there. Every home out there is trying to get that family in their home. I can't sell you if you don't know about my home.

In a nutshell you begin by meeting the business owner and learning about their business. You learn about the owner personally and their schedule. If they're checking in an order Tuesday morning, it's not a good idea to try to meet. You visit regularly exchanging ideas from notes you took, building trust and a relationship as you go. After several visits you both know one another and you can submit a proposal for advertising that matches their budget, their goals and what they like.

To say a salesperson can sell ice door to door in the Arctic is a great joke punchline. In reality they are saying the person reads people so well they can customize their proposal with extreme accuracy.

Regardless of your sales skills you will never sell anybody what they don't want and don't like. Anybody that would try that is surely lacking the ethics and credibility needed to maintain a sales position. Even a car salesperson isn't going to try to force you to buy a pick up when you're looking for a subcompact car. People buy what they want and like, period.

Selling agencies is a different type of sale. Here the ratings matter and cost per thousand matter. If your cost per thousand is too high, you might have a great product but they are hired to manage their client's marketing getting them the biggest bang for their client's dollar. You get preference by working to help the agency. If you can better their cost per thousand or offer a creative touch to their campaign, such goes far in getting the sale. If the agency knows you are doing more than just taking an order but also working for their continued success, it is much easier to be on that buy sheet.

Well said

 

[xkxrx]

On this board I read a good number of responses from posters that don't understand how we sell radio. I figured I might give you an idea of what we do.

Radio is not selling a tangible product. You are selling what cannot be see nor touched. We sell to business owners and agencies that have been hired to take care of marketing for that business. Everyone knows they need to advertise. Imagine this: you need a home to live in. Now I have to be that home you select. Much goes in to that. I have to be in the right neighborhood, have the perks you want in the home and I have to be affordable for you. Beyond that I have to stand out against every other home out there. Every home out there is trying to get that family in their home. I can't sell you if you don't know about my home.

In a nutshell you begin by meeting the business owner and learning about their business. You learn about the owner personally and their schedule. If they're checking in an order Tuesday morning, it's not a good idea to try to meet. You visit regularly exchanging ideas from notes you took, building trust and a relationship as you go. After several visits you both know one another and you can submit a proposal for advertising that matches their budget, their goals and what they like.

To say a salesperson can sell ice door to door in the Arctic is a great joke punchline. In reality they are saying the person reads people so well they can customize their proposal with extreme accuracy.

Regardless of your sales skills you will never sell anybody what they don't want and don't like. Anybody that would try that is surely lacking the ethics and credibility needed to maintain a sales position. Even a car salesperson isn't going to try to force you to buy a pick up when you're looking for a subcompact car. People buy what they want and like, period.

Selling agencies is a different type of sale. Here the ratings matter and cost per thousand matter. If your cost per thousand is too high, you might have a great product but they are hired to manage their client's marketing getting them the biggest bang for their client's dollar. You get preference by working to help the agency. If you can better their cost per thousand or offer a creative touch to their campaign, such goes far in getting the sale. If the agency knows you are doing more than just taking an order but also working for their continued success, it is much easier to be on that buy sheet.

My first manager, at a small market station, taught me "sell the sizzle not the steak," and that it's all about relationships. I was very successful and so were my clients.

 

[RADIOGUY8333]

i'm looking for anyone who has experience selling ads on radio using the nielsen rating system/book to local and national agencies. I'm trying to learn the biz and get insights and advise. any experienced broadcasters or sales people here? thank you in advance.

 

[Kelly A]

i'm looking for anyone who has experience selling ads on radio using the nielsen rating system/book to local and national agencies. I'm trying to learn the biz and get insights and advise. any experienced broadcasters or sales people here? thank you in advance.

Did you even read the original post? (Hint: There's a sales guy now...)

 

[SomeRadioGuy]

Did you even read the original post? (Hint: There's a sales guy now...)

No he posted this same thing somewhere else.. one of his only posts here

 

[Kelly A]

No he posted this same thing somewhere else.. one of his only posts here

Understood, saw that reply too. He replied this particular one following up from an obvious post from a sales guy. Wants to learn more about sales, but won't bother to read what's being talked about? Immediate fail!

 

[Tim]

I sold radio advertising in a medium market (35 miles from a top 25 market) for 30 years. Retired at age 63 in 2012. 75% of my list was local direct. I had many great clients.

Two things rocked my career: the 2008 recession, then the explosive popularity growth of the internet by the general public...and invention and acceptance of smart phones/tablets.

In 2009 my income was almost half what it was my best year ever, 2008. I
sold a legendary classic rock FM and #1 AM sister station.

I became self-employed in 2013...and decided the media world had changed too much to go back to radio. Am am now semi retired. My friends still in radio in sales or sales management ALL tell me “we can’t find competent sales people”. People willing and able to see prospects and current clients face to face...not just text packages. A couple years ago, at age 71, I got 3 unsolicited radio sales offers...from decent stations. And, they knew my age. (I politely declined).

If radio as an industry wants any shot at survival...besides quality programming...it better find a way to seek out and properly train local direct sales people. And pay them a living salary while learning on the job. A critical need exists.

 

[b-turner]

Tim makes excellent points. When I entered sales I was simply told to 'go see these people'. Luckily my boss knew sales. He arranged to go with me on calls two afternoons a week, seeing all my clients over a few weeks. He said he would direct the call and I should observe and take notes. That observation helped me understand how to build relationships and understand my client from their shoes. Without those afternoons, I likely would not have been successful. It wasn't my first attempt at sales and I failed at my prior attempts.

Paying a living wage is so crucial. I cannot believe how many radio stations think they can hire a salesperson on commission only without even an established account list of existing business to provide a salary. I had one guy offer me 20% on collections with no established account list to take over. There was no paycheck. I looked the guy in the eye and asked if he'd accept what he was offering. He looked clueless and said he thought I was a salesperson. I said I was and suggested he forego his paycheck about 6 months and give it to me while I establish myself. Naturally, he didn't like that idea but I said that was exactly what he was asking me to do.

For those clueless radio stations: if you can't pay a salesperson you will have a revolving door of salespeople and zero established relationships with local businesses because nobody sticks around long enough. And if you hire a person new to sales you had better be able to teach them how to do their job.

In my current position I definitely was not making much progress the first year. Then everything fell together and now I have some of the best relationships I have ever enjoyed with my clients. More than a few told me they held off to see if I would stick around. One guy said he knew I was over qualified for the position and felt I was just in transition. They tell me I work harder than anybody they have ever seen from my station. Simply put, because those before me left after about a year or so, I had to stand the test of time and show I was long term. My clients are as fond of me as I am of them because they know I work for them and represent the station. And, I'm not greedy.

It helps greatly that the station I sell for has exceptional programming with lots of exclusive local content. When my client buys, they get results significant enough to outdistance the competition in results for dollars spent.

I recently had a client give the station a nice item worth a few hundred dollars to give away to our listeners. They wanted to do this because they appreciate us and the results they get and we didn't need to even mention them in the promos. I was simply told we've been good to them and they'd like to say thank you.

Decades ago radio could get away with being that haphazard but surely not today. You'll find yourself outclassed and outworked by all your competitors no matter how great your programming is.

 

[PTBoardOp94]

Absolutely agree with Tim and B-turner. If no one is converting listeners into dollars, there can be no radio.

One of my former employers lost 6 or 7 sellers, many of them over 10 years with the company, in the last 24 months. I think it is going to be near impossible for them to recover from that.

 

[Tim]

A cluster of stations in the Pittsburgh metro has only TWO sales people (1 of the 2 is new, never sold radio before) and a GM who handles national. They had 10 or more sellers even 5 years ago. People retired, COVID hit, more retired or got out of advertising. Many new hires came and went after a few weeks. A few were in their 20’s who were frightened at the idea of actually having to meet clients in person. (That is so weird to me!). It’s a decent cluster in a medium sized chain. They too can’t find enough competent sales people. Wow...what a crazy world we’re living in today.

 

[KilowattKat]

A friend interviewed for a sales position for a small, stand alone AM in Florida. The owner told him their method of getting clients was to mail out phony invoices for ads on the station to businesses in that town. His job would be to walk into the business unannounced, ask them if they received the invoice they requested, and when to begin their ad campaign Supposedly, this approach was to engage the owner in possibly advertising, all whom had no interest, and to be prepared for some to get angry, and being kicked out.

Needless to say, he wisely did not accept the job, and said station went dark shortly thereafter, eventually being sold. I suppose desperation to bring in revenue can lead to sales tactics like this.

 

[landtuna]

Just like when door-to-door salesmen choose to ignore my "Do Not Disturb" sign. I always make it a point to send the offending business and the city an email saying that those tactics will get them put on my eternal black list.

 

[Tim]

In the real world, a business who’s money you seek is in control. They do not owe you an appointment. Your “black list” means zero to them. Right or wrong, they will just think of you as a jerk.

I sold mostly local direct businesses over 30 years. I got a ton of businesses on the air nobody else was able to by being considerate of business owners of time, yet politely persistent and professional, and stressed I was there to be of service to them.

 

[Kelly A]

In the real world, a business who’s money you seek is in control. They do not owe you an appointment. Your “black list” means zero to them. Right or wrong, they will just think of you as a jerk.

I sold mostly local direct businesses over 30 years. I got a ton of businesses on the air nobody else was able to by being considerate of business owners of time, yet politely persistent and professional, and stressed I was there to be of service to them.

But digital has changed that relationship. Now, it's all about cost vs. reach, and how does radio meet those metrics?

 

[BamaTX]

If radio as an industry wants any shot at survival...besides quality programming...it better find a way to seek out and properly train local direct sales people. And pay them a living salary while learning on the job. A critical need exists.

Has anyone stopped to consider that maybe radio has just gotten a lot harder to sell in modern times? It has always been easy to blame "the new generation", but the reality is that radio isn't as socially relevant as it once was. It also isn't being produced like it used to be (I can't think of a single station I listen to that is staffed locally 24/7). We're asking salesman to bring back the glory of radio (or at least stop the bleeding) by giving them a trash product to sell in a crowded media market to a society that has a much shorter attention span.

NOT. GONNA. HAPPEN.

2008 was the beginning of the end for terrestrial radio. Not only did it have to fight a recession that devastated marketing budgets across the board, but it happened as new, emerging technology became affordable/plentiful. Google Maps replaced the need of TOH traffic reports. Massive libraries of podcasts replaced the need for tired morning shows. And a plethora of music apps (with customizable playlists) replaced the need to listen to the radio all day just to hear the latest music.

AM/FM Radio is dying. No good salesman is going to reverse that unstoppable trend. The future is in OTT media. Radio execs, listeners, and businesses know this. There's a reason why every major company is selling/pushing their OTT apps. Audacy, iHeart, Univision, etc. all push their apps every chance they get. They see what's happening. It's only us peons who reminisce about the glory days who refuse to accept this. Sooner or later, all radio stations are going to be carrying national feeds with absolutely no local input. Major broadcasters are just squeezing as much as they can out of their licenses before they completely bail. How long will that last is a mystery. 10 years? Maybe 50 years? Who knows.

 

[PTBoardOp94]

@BamaTX: You're not wrong in the large picture. But if successful sales people aren't around, a "20 years from now" problem becomes a "today" problem.

 

[b-turner]

I agree and disagree with Bama TX. I would say it is much more than a radio issue.

Radio has tons of competition. You have competition for ad dollars online, ad dollars going to TV, Cable, newspapers, shoppers and special 'publications' newspapers issue (here there is a ranching magazine, a restaurant/nightlife monthly and tourism quarterlies). Billboard companies are regulars on the streets. Where there was one radio station, now there's 3 or 4 after the same dollars.

National chains have popped up in every small town around and they don't buy local radio. When did Home Depot or Walmart buy on your small town station? You have Amazon taking so many dollars out of the local market. The result is the biggest retail sales outlets in town are not spending a penny on local radio. So, Joe's Lumber Company that used to spend $1,000 a month 40 years ago only has about $200 a month to spend with you today. Home Depot and Lowe's almost took them under. The one local grocery store now has two major chains with huge stores compared to the long-time grocer. Even Walmart and Dollar General and Big Lots peel away more of their income.

The station I work for has no problem with listeners. We have so many P1s you'd think we were lying. We're the heritage station and the only station doing local news and high school sports out of 50 choices on the dial. I can run a light schedule and produce good results for my clients. Losing listeners is not my problem.

I know how to sell...at least one way: go see your client, know them and make sure they know you. Then I take them what they want and can afford. I watch out for them and help every way I can. It's not the order, it's knowing by working for their continued success, mine follows. My clients trust me and respect me because they know me. That's how I sell and it works well here.

I get creative too. We're in too small an area to enforce contracts when clients want out. I always sign one year contracts by writing on the contract "No penalty Cancellation". About 85% don't cancel and my annuals automatically renew at their anniversary. I never got an annual until I added those words.

The reality is the budget the typical advertiser has today is a fraction of what it was. That's what is really hurting radio. Even great programming doesn't change things that much. All it does is better your chances of getting the bulk of what is out there.

 

[Kelly A]

Has anyone stopped to consider that maybe radio has just gotten a lot harder to sell in modern times?

Of course it has. There's simply more competition.

It has always been easy to blame "the new generation", but the reality is that radio isn't as socially relevant as it once was. It also isn't being produced like it used to be (I can't think of a single station I listen to that is staffed locally 24/7).

It isn't being produced like it used to be, because there's more competition for you, and your advertisers. Agencies aren't interested in buying spots much after PM drive, so a station could blow a large percentage what it makes in the daytime hours, by staffing nights and weekends. Like any business, you spend only where it makes you money.

We're asking salesman to bring back the glory of radio (or at least stop the bleeding) by giving them a trash product to sell in a crowded media market to a society that has a much shorter attention span.

AE's have always been tasked with selling whatever will sell. That's nothing new. No station owner that I've ever seen has ever purposely presented "a trash product". You provide the product that you can afford, and that's available in your town/market. Regarding a shorter attention span? That's true only because there's so much more competition for eyes and ears than the good ol' days.

2008 was the beginning of the end for terrestrial radio.

The recession in 2007-2009 took a huge bite out of broadcast valuations, but is hardly the beginning of the end. It's easy to conclude that broadcast properties were probably over-valued prior to the recession anyway.

Not only did it have to fight a recession that devastated marketing budgets across the board, but it happened as new, emerging technology became affordable/plentiful.

Marketing budgets were devastated because there was a recession going on. FTE's and marketing is always one of the first lines cut.

Google Maps replaced the need of TOH traffic reports. Massive libraries of podcasts replaced the need for tired morning shows. And a plethora of music apps (with customizable playlists) replaced the need to listen to the radio all day just to hear the latest music.

Smart phones are just another part of the competition for eyes and ears.

AM/FM Radio is dying.

AM is definitely losing market share as it's audience dies off. FM is now the de facto form of 'radio'. Doesn't mean it's dying, nor dead.

No good salesman is going to reverse that unstoppable trend. The future is in OTT media. Radio execs, listeners, and businesses know this. There's a reason why every major company is selling/pushing their OTT apps. Audacy, iHeart, Univision, etc. all push their apps every chance they get.

Smart media companies have to create a more diverse business portfolio. That includes streaming/OTT, digital print, digital billboards, concert promotion, gaming tournaments, whatever. That way when one portion of the business is down, everything isn't down. Radio-only owners over the years now find themselves boxed into a corner.

They see what's happening. It's only us peons who reminisce about the glory days who refuse to accept this.

True, and are the first to criticize radio owners because they didn't see this coming.

Sooner or later, all radio stations are going to be carrying national feeds with absolutely no local input.

To paraphrase what Bturner said; many smaller to medium markets are still alive and kicking. Is it as easy to sell two dollar-a-hollar spots as it was in the good ol' days? Absolutely not. Part of that is businesses who we sell to are under even more competitive pressure than radio. And many of those remaining businesses are splitting their reduced ad budgets across competing platforms like radio and digital.

Major broadcasters are just squeezing as much as they can out of their licenses before they completely bail.

Most don't have the option of bailing. There's still a mountain of debt associated with the original station(s) purchase. Paying that debt to zero won't happen in our lifetime.

How long will that last is a mystery. 10 years? Maybe 50 years? Who knows.

If we could predict the future, we wouldn't be sitting here typing on a discussion board.

 

[davideduardo]

It isn't being produced like it used to be, because there's more competition for you, and your advertisers. Agencies aren't interested in buying spots much after PM drive, so a station could blow a large percentage what it makes in the daytime hours, by staffing nights and weekends. Like any business, you spend only where it makes you money.

I think evaluating dayparts and shifts based on revenue is short-term budget-based thinking. This is the equivalent of a supermarket saying, "Well, Monday and Tuesday before noon practically nobody comes in to buy. On those days, let's open at 1 PM and save money".

Listeners who find an inferior product in certain time periods are less likely to come back in others. One of radio's biggest selling points is its companionship 24/7 quality. When the station does not sound as good in "off hours" listener opinions become tarnished and the selection of that station becomes secondary.