September 28: This Day in TV History

[Stanislav]

Just a few random TV related events that happened on September 28. Discuss or comment as you please……

1901: TV legend Ed Sullivan is born in New York City.

1901: On the same day in Chicago, another TV legend, CBS Chief Executive William S. Paley, is born.

1923: Actor William Windom (My World and Welcome to It, Murder She Wrote) is born in New York City.

1925: Character actor Arnold Stang is born in Chelsea, Massachusetts. In addition to his numerous movie and TV roles, he is fondly known by animation fans as the voice of Top Cat.

1937: Announcer Rod Roddy (Soap, Press Your Luck, The Price is Right) is born in Fort Worth, Texas.

1948: WBAP-TV (channel 5, now KXAS-TV) signs on in Fort Worth, Texas.

1953: KOAT-TV (channel 7) debuts in Albuquerque, New Mexico.

1955: The World Series (Brooklyn Dodgers vs. New York Yankees) is broadcast in color for the first time. The TV announcers are Vin Scully and Mel Allen. This was the only Series the Dodgers would win while in Brooklyn.

1955: WITN-TV (channel 7) begins operating in Washington, North Carolina as an NBC affiliate. (I’m sure the sign-on date wasn’t coincidental – see above...)

1961: Hazel debuts on NBC.

1964: KCET (channel 28) begins broadcasting in Los Angeles.

1964: Harpo Marx dies in Los Angeles, aged 75. TV fans will always revere his re-creation, with Lucille Ball, of the famous mirror scene from “Duck Soup” in an episode of I Love Lucy. (Which, contrary to popular legend, was NOT done in a single take before the live audience, but heavily edited from several re-takes.)

1968: The Ghost and Mrs. Muir debuts on NBC.

1972: CITY-TV (channel 79) signs on in Toronto, Ontario. The station moved to channel 57 in 1983.

1984: Catching the bad guys, but with style: Miami Vice debuts on NBC.

1987: The long wait is over for Trekkies: finally, a NEW Star Trek!! Star Trek: The Next Generation premieres in syndication. (“Make it so!”)

2002: Actress Whitney Blake (Hazel) dies in Edgartown, Massacusetts, aged 76.

2006: Ugly Betty debuts on ABC.

(Just a little featurette I hope to do as time permits. It’s an entirely random selection based on a quick Net search, and is not meant to be comprehensive. So, don’t post nasty messages about “you forgot THIS” or “how could you not mention THAT?” Do so, and I’ll just take my keyboard and go home…..)

 

[landtuna]

Why do you describe Ed Sullivan as a "TV legend"?

I remember him from the 50's as the extremely wooden and stone-faced host of a variety program. I only vaguely remember his Toast of the Town show but he didn't seem to possess any personality there either.

It seems that people today, if they remember him at all, only remember Topo Gigo and his introducing the Beatles to the USA. I remember much more interesting fare from Dick Cavett and Merv Griffin.

 

[RicoGregg]

Sorry to disagree with you, 'Tuna, but on longevity alone, Ed Sullivan earned his legend status. Any TV personality who can keep his job for nearly a quarter-century has achieved something truly special.

I respect Dick Cavett, one of the best interviewers ever, and Merv Griffin for all he achieved, but I never saw Rich Little or Frank Gorshin imitate them.

 

[landtuna]

Longevity does not a legend make. Otherwise Bob Barker would hold the title.

I never heard Dick or Merv say "rilly great shew!", or "Beat-els". Maybe it was a New Yawk thing.

 

[johnnyu]

If memory serves me correctly, Toast of the Town and the Ed Sullivan show were the same show. It was just re-named the Ed Sullivan Show after a time.

 

[Prais]

Sulllivan is certainly a legend.

Elvis, the Beatles, the Rollilng Stones, and acts that "the whole family" could watch and enjoy together.

If you're too young to have watched (I'm 59) you really woulen't understand - as much as I don't understand the appeal of a schlub
like Letterman today.

 

[RicoGregg]

Longevity does not a legend make. Otherwise Bob Barker would hold the title.

I never heard Dick or Merv say "rilly great shew!", or "Beat-els". Maybe it was a New Yawk thing.

I would have sworn that Bob Barker had legend status.

Is that provincialism in your second graph? I hope not. Plenty of people from all parts, I mean ALL parts of the nation we could poke fun at.

 

[landtuna]

Sulllivan is certainly a legend.

Nope. We're talking about the man, Sullivan, not the entertainment he hosted. Compare Sullivan to Carson and you will see what I mean. Carson had tons of comic talent and frequently displayed it on his show which also consisted of other acts but he didn't simply announce them and walk off stage.

Elvis, the Beatles, the Rollilng Stones, and acts that "the whole family" could watch and enjoy together.

The Rolling Stones were definitely NOT family entertainment when they first broke into the USA and I really doubt most parents would consider them family entertainment even today. Most of the other acts Sullivan had on his shows were family-oriented but then most of TV was then as well.

If you're too young to have watched (I'm 59) you really woulen't understand - as much as I don't understand the appeal of a schlub like Letterman today.

I've got you beat by four years and definitely remember the show from '54 (when TV came to my house) onward. Don't know where the Letterman comparison came from but since you brought it up....I think Dave has more on-stage talent than Sullivan ever did and I am not a fan of either.

 

[landtuna]

Is that provincialism in your second graph? I hope not. Plenty of people from all parts, I mean ALL parts of the nation we could poke fun at.

I lived in New Yawk City for four years but never heard anyone mimic Sullivan's delivery of the two examples he was famous for so maybe he had a deviated septum or summat.

 

[azumanga]

Elvis, the Beatles, the Rollilng Stones, and acts that "the whole family" could watch and enjoy together.

The Rolling Stones were definitely NOT family entertainment when they first broke into the USA and I really doubt most parents would consider them family entertainment even today. Most of the other acts Sullivan had on his shows were family-oriented but then most of TV was then as well.

Of course, the Stones, when they appeared on Ed Sullivan, honored his request to change "Let's Spend the Night Together" to "Let's Spend Some Time Together".

The Doors, on the other hand, refused to alter "Light My Fire", and ended up banished from Ed Sullivan, even though Jim Morrison didn't mind ("We played The Ed Sullivan Show!").

 

[RicoGregg]

Sulllivan is certainly a legend.

Nope. We're talking about the man, Sullivan, not the entertainment he hosted. Compare Sullivan to Carson and you will see what I mean. Carson had tons of comic talent and frequently displayed it on his show which also consisted of other acts but he didn't simply announce them and walk off stage.

Elvis, the Beatles, the Rollilng Stones, and acts that "the whole family" could watch and enjoy together.

The Rolling Stones were definitely NOT family entertainment when they first broke into the USA and I really doubt most parents would consider them family entertainment even today. Most of the other acts Sullivan had on his shows were family-oriented but then most of TV was then as well.

If you're too young to have watched (I'm 59) you really woulen't understand - as much as I don't understand the appeal of a schlub like Letterman today.

I've got you beat by four years and definitely remember the show from '54 (when TV came to my house) onward. Don't know where the Letterman comparison came from but since you brought it up....I think Dave has more on-stage talent than Sullivan ever did and I am not a fan of either.

I think you're missing the whole point of The Ed Sullivan Show. He wasn't a stand-up comic like Carson. He wasn't a singer like Merv Griffin was. His actual day job was as an entertainment columnist for the New York Citizen News. If he were still with us, I think he would be the first to tell you that he didn't have any talent. His function when Toast of the Town started in 1948 was to introduce the acts, then get out of the way. He only became part of the show when a comedian or an act like The Muppets or Topo Gigio (sp) needed a straight man.

This was a major reason why Saturday Night Live With Howard Cosell failed. Howard tried to be "the show". Sullivan let the guests be "the show". And that formula worked very well for a very long time.

As for the Rolling Stones, of course they weren't family entertainment; They were booked for the teenagers, who were buying their records in large numbers, selling out their concerts (I was at their first U.S. concert in San Bernardino, Ca. in 1964 at age 14), and on that particular night, the audience at the Ed Sullivan theater was jam-packed with screaming teenage girls. The Sullivan show was always booked for a wide range of demographics. In network television, I imagine that's called good business.

 

[KML0224]

As for Star Trek TNG, I think that premiered in 1986, not 1987.

 

[Prais]

Rico sums it up better that I could.

Sullivan's appeal was the "range of guests" and probably somewhat, his ability to ATTRACT the guests (due to being on cbs/timeslot, etc.) and the longevity the show enjoyed (around 27 years).

Not even Carson is parodied in a Broadway show (like Ed Sullivan is)
that still plays in high schools these days (Bye Bye Birdie). The Paul Lynde character CERTAINLY thinks Ed is a legend. He sings a song about Ed.

I note there are LOTS of ways to define legend. This is tv, not cancer surgery. I think Jackie Gleason and even Lawrence Welk both are legends. Ask someone who is 75 about Welk, then come back here. Was Tim Russert?

 

[Prais]

PS; I personally can't stand Jerry Lewis, Bette Davis or Letterman. Are they legends? Not to me. "Legend" is a very "subjective" thing - can be modified by each of our views.

Louis Armstrong is a Black entertainer. That is objective. Can't argue with him being "Black." In My opinion, Louis is also a legend.

 

[landtuna]

I think maybe one more response is in order then I'm done with this topic.

I fully understand the difference between Messers. Sullivan, Carson, Griffin et. al. Some had talent and some did not and if so, it tended to be in different venues. I merely pointed out that Sullivan's primary, and sole, attribute was his hosting of a variety show in which other performers entertained. He could have had the same function introducing a wedding singer and remained an unknown. Virtually all the game show hosts of that day had more on-air presence than Sullivan. It was his ability to gather the headliners of the day and bring them together on his show that is his legacy but that hardly makes him a legend (if you subscribe to the definition of 'legend' as being an accomplished originator). Many other genuine talents had performed the same function in radio prior to Sullivan on TV.

I guess if you consider Sullivan's wooden personality as groundbreaking and unique you would also have to concede the same of Bob Dole. I've never heard of anyone describing Dole as a legend.

But yes, that scene in Bye, Bye Birdie when Lynde sings the praises of Sullivan is priceless even though it is mocking his show at the same time.

 

[Stanislav]

I'll post my two cents on this topic, and then get out of the way and let you guys continue your dispute.

For someone to be a "legend" does not mean that you necessarily like them. Nor does it imply that they have some magnificent talent, or are tops on the popularity meter. One becomes a legend through longevity, notability, and influence over the medium and its viewers. It's like Time Magazine's "Man of the Year" thing -- sometimes it goes to someone who's not very nice or liked or popular (didn't the Ayatollah make the cover once?), but is the person who influenced world events or culture the most, for good or ill.

Sullivan was not a camera-ready personality. He didn't sing or dance or act or tell jokes. But he had a unique presence (one that was imitated by everyone, even the chimps on Lancelot Link), a shrewd business acumen and eye for talent, and created a show that not only lasted two decades, but was carefully calculated to expose viewers to a wide variety of culture. (Hey, how often do opera singers and Broadway stars appear on commercial TV today? Not to mention the guy spinning the plates.....) For an act to get a gig on The Ed Sullivan Show was one of the biggest breaks in the business, because he had such a massive audience. And, yes, it was a show the whole family could appreciate and watch -- there was something for every taste. Kids could get exposed to some more highbrow acts and their parents could see that the rock groups their kids worshiped weren't really that scary or corrupting.

Based on all of that, yes -- Ed Sullivan is a legend. That doesn't change because he may not have been your (or anyone else's) cup of tea.

I shall now flee before the bricks resume flying.....

 

[RicoGregg]

Not wishing for this to wind up in TIO....

I actually consider this to be good exchange of opinions. I like to think that we've been discussing, not debating the topic of Ed Sullivan.

One thing I will cede to Mr. Landtuna is that obviously, Ed Sullivan was not his cup of tea, and that's fine. He's perfectly entitled to his opinion. There have been plenty of celebrities whom I can't stomach. If it wasn't such a long list, I'd list them.

The celebrity hasn't been born yet who's been liked by everyone. Everybody doesn't necessarily love Lucy or Raymond. If someone doesn't like who you like, well, deal with it!

I would consider Bob Dole something of a political legend. I'm sure he has that status in his home state of Kansas. I saw him guesting on shows like David Letterman, and he displayed a wicked sense of humor (are you reading this, John McCain?). Perhaps if he had shown more of that throughout his run for President, maybe, just maybe the election of '96 would have turned out differently.

Back in '96, Bob Dole was a lone voice in the wilderness against the Telecommunications Act of 1996, which Bill Clinton signed into law. Back then, he said that it was a bad bill, that only major corporations would benefit, and that the public would be shortchanged. Well, what's a big topic throughout the Radio-Info boards these days, and what are they complaining about? Looks like Senator Dole had some visionary in him. If that doesn't make him a legend, it certainly makes him a great man in my book, and I'm a lifelong Democrat.

 

[bpatrick]

I'm in total agreement with stanislav. If
you can find it, look at the pictures in a
book about Sullivan titled "Always on Sunday."
You'll see Humphrey Bogart and Lauren Bacall
(how often did they appear on television?), Fred Astaire,
Sammy Davis Jr., Louis Armstrong, Gary Cooper, Barbra Streisand,
Lucille Ball, Phil Silvers, Maurice Chevalier, Sophie
Tucker, the Moiseyev Dancers (a Russian ballet
troupe), Rudolf Nureyev, Walt Disney, and--of course--
the Beatles and Topo Gigio. Who but Sullivan could
offer such a wide range of entertainers and make his
Sunday-night hour "must-see TV" for an entire generation?
If all he did was introduce the acts and get out of the way,
then all of us could have our own variety show.

As TV Guide once said, "For 23 years (1948-71) he was
nothing less than America's minister of culture."

 

[Prais]

Being a legend" is certainly a matter of one's opinion. There are NO rules but your own.

 

[bpatrick]

True, but I'd bet that most baby boomers and
their parents--if you took a survey--would consider
Sullivan a "legend." But that's just my opinion.