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September 28: This Day in TV History

bpatrick said:
True, but I'd bet that most baby boomers and their parents--if you took a survey--would consider Sullivan a "legend." But that's just my opinion.
Click to expand...

I couldn't resist......but THIS will be my last (promise).

I'm two years older than the first Boomers who were born in 1946 and I barely remember Sullivan. I suspect later Boomers remember him even less. The last of the Boomers (1960) never saw Sullivan live.

As for the parents....most are probably gone by now. I suspect they would have agreed with you though because there were so few shows of his type on early TV. Aside from several afternoon and locally produced 'talent' shows (like Carson's first), probably the only one. The other variety shows of the day usually had a consistent cast of characters with one or two guests (ala Gleason, Skelton and Allen).
 
Mr. Tuna,
I'm very curious.

How could you be born in 1944 and not remember Sullivan well, What did your family watch on Sunday night?

Wow. My wife, 6 years younger than you, (with self-admitted very foggy childhood memories) has lots of stories about "burned popcorn" waiting for a particular act. I have similar stories, but my memories as a kid are quite vivid.

I can imagine being your age and watching, um...whatever you might have watched. Most of our parents, if still around, are in their 80's.

With no bad will intended, but lots of curiousity, what DID you watch, instead?

Perry Como and Steve Allen both tried, briefly. Andy Williams? Bonanza
was on FOLLOWING Ed but on NBC, right? Car 54? You can read on the internet that "All of (his) original competitors, Milton Berle, Bob Hope, Eddie Cantor, Jerry and Dino – the list goes on – saw their shows cancelled. "
 
landtuna said:
bpatrick said:
True, but I'd bet that most baby boomers and their parents--if you took a survey--would consider Sullivan a "legend." But that's just my opinion.
Click to expand...

I couldn't resist......but THIS will be my last (promise).

I'm two years older than the first Boomers who were born in 1946 and I barely remember Sullivan. I suspect later Boomers remember him even less. The last of the Boomers (1960) never saw Sullivan live.

As for the parents....most are probably gone by now. I suspect they would have agreed with you though because there were so few shows of his type on early TV. Aside from several afternoon and locally produced 'talent' shows (like Carson's first), probably the only one. The other variety shows of the day usually had a consistent cast of characters with one or two guests (ala Gleason, Skelton and Allen).
Click to expand...

You can barely remember Ed Sullivan? Hard to believe...but I guess if you grew up in a home where the show wasn't watched, it's possible. The Ed Sullivan Show ran until 1971, so the youngest Boomers could have seen the show at anytime until age 9.

I was born in 1952. It was an usual Sunday night when the show wasn't on in my house. From the mid 50s until 1969 when I left for college, it was an institution. First, I got the chance to see many of the rock and roll groups that were popular in that era - Beatles, Rolling Stones, Dave Clark 5, Mamas & Papas, and many others...all live, no lip-synching allowed.

Also, I loved the stand up comics that appeared regularly on the show. They included Rowan and Martin, a very funny Canadian team named Wayne and Schuster, Stiller and Meara, Mike Nichols and Elaine May, Alan King, Phyllis Diller, Jackie Mason (until he was banned from the show), and many others.

While Sullivan had no particular talent of his own - he was the face of the show and was famous in his own right...certainly the show is legendary, so I think the man deserves legend status.
 
Prais said:
How could you be born in 1944 and not remember Sullivan well, What did your family watch on Sunday night?
Click to expand...

The only show I can remember watching on Sunday evenings was Maverick but that was on later on in the 50's. I could not tell you these 50-odd years after the fact which shows were on what nights or what networks they were on. I was not a fan of Sullivan although my parents did watch it from time to time.

Prais said:
With no bad will intended, but lots of curiousity, what DID you watch, instead?
Click to expand...

TV came to my house in 1954. In the mid-to-late 50's my TV watching was primarily westerns (Cisco Kid, Range Rider etc.) and documentaries like 20th Century (my all-time favorite), Silent Service and Navy Log. Later on I watched American Bandstand and some comedies like Ozzie & Harriet and I Love Lucy. Favorite variety shows included Gobel, Skelton, Gleason and Allen but I was never fond of Hope, Martin & Lewis, Caesar or Berle.
 
landtuna said:
I'm two years older than the first Boomers who were born in 1946 and I barely remember Sullivan. I suspect later Boomers remember him even less. The last of the Boomers (1960) never saw Sullivan live.
Click to expand...

...that's bullspit. I was born in '61 and I distinctly recall watching The Chambers Brothers performing "Time Has Come Today" on The Ed Sullivan Show in '68, and I haven't seen that clip since (was it ever included on one of the clip specials or syndicated/PBS reruns?). One more aspect of Sullivan's success that has yet to be mentioned here is that Sullivan allowed the poorest of Americans to see the greatest of classical performers and parts of Broadway shows that they'd never otherwise have the opportunity to see. At the time of the show's cancellation, Dick Gregory was writing a weekly newspaper column and devoted one week to that particular point. The week The Beatles first appeared, there was also a performance of "I'd Do Anything" and "As Long As He Needs Me" from Oliver! with the stars of the production then running on Broadway; it's very likely that many (most?) of those impoverished white families in West Virginia and black families in Watts who could barely afford a TV set but tuned in that week would never have had that opportunity again in any manner. Same for the Broadway production of Camelot in which Richard Burton played King Arthur, or the time dancers from the Bolshoi Ballet appeared, or Pablo Casals. Of all the tributes in print that appeared at the time, Gregory's meant the most to Sullivan...
 
I'm not trying to whip a deceased equine, but I think what several of us have been trying to say in so many words is that The Ed Sullivan Show exposed people of different walks of life and tastes to other forms of entertainment. Teens watching to see a rock group sat through acts from the fine arts genres, and as a result, some of them wound up liking it. There could conceivably be violinists in an orchestra pit in Pittsburgh or Portland, plying their trade for the local philharmonic orchestra because they watched the Sullivan Show one night.

At the same time, the parents of teens, and people who normally paid no mind to rock were exposed to the Beatles, Dave Clark 5, Rolling Stones, and so on, and as a result, the genre became more acceptable to adults. It possibly could have been the seed that gave birth to FM rock.

It would be hard to duplicate this today. Even in it's last years, the Sullivan show was in an era where there were only 3 commercial networks. It was what we used to call "a shared experience." Now, with hundreds of channels and countless networks, there's something for every taste at the tip of your remote. As another result, when you put something like fine arts on TV, it's usually on Public Television, and subsequently, they wind up preaching to the choir. Ironically, the increased choices available doesn't expose entertainment forms to the uninitiated. Are we losing something as a result?
 
I just can't stay away but I promise to be polite.....

RicoGregg said:
Teens watching to see a rock group sat through acts from the fine arts genres, and as a result, some of them wound up liking it. There could conceivably be violinists in an orchestra pit in Pittsburgh or Portland, plying their trade for the local philharmonic orchestra because they watched the Sullivan Show one night.
Click to expand...

Obviously I can't speak for the millions of my fellow teens of the 50's but I can say with a lot of confidence that the vast majority of my school mates of the day weren't big fans of Sullivan. His show was universally viewed as our parents show and about the only time any of us tuned in was when he had Elvis or one of the other early rockers on. But even then it was nothing like the weekly Ozzie & Harriet show which usually had a song by Rick Nelson. I remember plenty of hallway discussions about TV shows but not one about Sullivan (again, unless Elvis was on).

RicoGregg said:
At the same time, the parents of teens, and people who normally paid no mind to rock were exposed to the Beatles, Dave Clark 5, Rolling Stones, and so on, and as a result, the genre became more acceptable to adults. It possibly could have been the seed that gave birth to FM rock.
Click to expand...

I knew of no parents who thought the Stones were an acceptable music group for their kids to emulate. The Beatles were shockers but the Stones were viewed with suspicion and distrust very similar to how Rap is viewed today.

RicoGregg said:
Ironically, the increased choices available doesn't expose entertainment forms to the uninitiated. Are we losing something as a result?
Click to expand...

Isn't that the main purpose of school band, choir, etc? And shouldn't parents be held accountable for exposing their children to various forms of music and art so they at least know other forms besides 'pop' exists? When my kids were young all of them played at least one year in a band. I played all sorts of music at home. One son likes classical and Swing as a result and another mixes his metal with Oldies.

It seems we (parents) have more than enough choices to enable our children to appreciate all the various forms without depending upon TV.

I think you are absolutely correct that we will not see the same TV environment again though. TV was still very new in the Sullivan era and lots of different programs were being tested. Today the markets are very fragmented and people tend to view what they already prefer rather than "just what's on".
 
Mr. Tuna,
As polite as I can be....You said,
"Isn't that the main purpose of school band, choir, etc? "

You remind me of a Saturday Evening Post magazine cover. Did YOU grow up in Mayberry? (I LOVE the Andy Griffith show) but did you not seek "entertainment" AWAY from MS Helen Crump and your school environment? Didn't you ever look at any of those magazines in Floyd's Barber Shop? Didn't Goober ever tell you an off-color joke, while you were sipping a Dr. Pepper and having a moon pie?

The MAIN purpose of the Gordon Tech High School Band, Chicago, IL was to train peoeple to play those instruments and march at the same time. If I allowed MY schools to "expose me to "other forms of entertainment" I would have not had a serious date until (my college) bussed the young ladies in from another college far away.

I found school to LIMIT my "exposre" to THEIR standards. Even playing "Light My Fire" during my first radio job made me feel like I was "on the way to hell."I had to adjust AWAY from the "environment in which I was raised." I used THEIR standards to (with an informed conscience, learned in school) to set MY OWN standards - and that was a bit broader than playing "Hogan's Heroes March" in the school band.

I turned out to be a minister, and quite happy, successful, in my 31st year of marriage, (as Paul Newman said) "when you've had steak, you will never chase a hamburger again."

I wish you the best, sir.
 
1946: Actor Jeffrey Jones is born in Buffalo, NY. In addition to his best-known role as Dean Edward R. Rooney in the 1986 film "Ferris Bueller's Day Off," his other film and TV roles include appearances on Amazing Stories, Tales from the Crypt, and Deadwood.
 
1970: The anchor team of Roger Grimsby and Bill Beutel officially debuts on WABC-TV's (Channel 7, New York) Eyewitness News; Beutel had replaced Tom Dunn as Grimsby's co-anchor, and there was another irony in that, more than two years before, Grimsby himself had replaced Beutel as anchor of the pre-EWN era 11 P.M. newscast, nicknamed "Roger Grimsby and the Noisemakers" (in the interim, Beutel had been London bureau chief for ABC News). The Grimsby/Beutel partnership spanned nearly 16 years (apart from several months when Beutel was co-hosting the ill-fated AM America in 1975), up to Grimsby's firing on April 16, 1986; in longevity, this partnership has long ago been surpassed by WNBC's (Channel 4) Chuck Scarborough and Sue Simmons.
 
Personally, I think Doris Singleton was quite attractive,
and certainly not "plus size." You may be thinking of
occasional "Lucy" guest Barbara Pepper (better known
as Doris Ziffel on "Green Acres"), another old friend of
Lucy's from their days at MGM in the '30s.
 
1946: Actor Jeffrey Jones is born in Buffalo, NY. In addition to his best-known role as Dean Edward R. Rooney in the 1986 film "Ferris Bueller's Day Off," his other film and TV roles include appearances on Amazing Stories, Tales from the Crypt, and Deadwood.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, his best known real life roles invoved being busted for child porn.
 
bpatrick said:
Personally, I think Doris Singleton was quite attractive,
and certainly not "plus size." You may be thinking of
occasional "Lucy" guest Barbara Pepper (better known
as Doris Ziffel on "Green Acres"), another old friend of
Lucy's from their days at MGM in the '30s.
Click to expand...

Actually Barbara Pepper herself in her early years was quite a looker. Sadly her husband was killed in an accident in 1949 which led to Barbara Pepper to develop a drinking problem which in turned had caused her to gain a LOT of weight in a very short time. In one of my Lucy books I seem to recall reading where during the early years of I Love Lucy when she had guest starred, her weight was about 130-140 pounds..however .a few years later she was close to 300 !!

And on top of that she developed heart troubles ( imagine the weight gain added to that if not the direct cause ) and sadly Pepper died young herself in 1969 at the age of 54.
 
That was before "Green Acres" ended (1971). Shame.

IIRC from some of the Lucy biographies, both she and
Barbara Pepper were chorus girls at MGM in the early
to mid-'30s, so you know Ms. Pepper would have had
to be pretty svelte. Lucy went on to become more
famous in part because, even then, she'd try anything;
one MGM executive said about her, "That's the girl who
will make it!"
 
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