Buffalo September Ratings

[Mark1981]

I’m rather surprised that no one has posted the September Nielsen ratings (12+, Monday through Sunday) for the Buffalo market. They were released Thursday. So, I’ll do the honors here.

The biggest news is that 97 Rock has vaulted to the top of the ratings. Well, technically, 97 Rock is tied with WYRK at number 1 with a 9.0. WBEN had a strong book, ranked fourth with a 7.8. Sadly, WBFO slid to a 2.5. It was just a few months ago that WBFO was within one point of WBEN. In September, the margin was 5.3. Clearly, Buffalo radio listeners looking for news are finding what they need on WBEN rather than WBFO.

We were told by Glenn Topolski last month that WECK’s numbers would no longer be listed. Well, they’re still there with a 4.9. WECK is knocking at the door of a five share. Our friend Buddy must be celebrating! And KISS 98.5 is the clear winner over 96.1 more than a year after STAR 102.5 departed the scene. As noted in another thread, the remnants of STAR 102.5 at WLKK HD2 has started playing Christmas music. Yeah, just what people want to hear when temps are still in the 60s (70s and 80s a week ago). 96.1 will make the switch on November 1st.

Other than that, it’s the status quo. WGR’s numbers are climbing now that it’s football season. WBUF and the 107.7 continue to struggle at the bottom of the ratings.

 

[SirRoxalot]

It's big news that WBLK is down 2.1 since July. It could be diary placement, which would also account for the boost for 97-Rock and WYRK, and even suburban conservatives listening to WBEN. WECK's rise makes it look like the loss of JP may have been more plus than minus, at least 12+. The demographics will tell whether the listeners are in the demographics the station was shooting for under his regime. In fact, the whole book may simply be skewing older since 12+ numbers would be closer to raw listeners without the weighting that evens out male-female and age group numbers.

You would think that the continued decline of WBFO would indicate to someone that programming changes like putting "The Bridge" on in the evening hours and featuring it on weekends might not be bringing new listeners on board and alienating those who were already donating. Maybe they've got corporate underwriting backing that play, but they need to be concerned about overall listening and contributions.

 

[RadioGuy1864]

You would think that the continued decline of WBFO would indicate to someone that programming changes like putting "The Bridge" on in the evening hours and featuring it on weekends might not be bringing new listeners on board and alienating those who were already donating. Maybe they've got corporate underwriting backing that play, but they need to be concerned about overall listening and contributions.

Let's also not forget the downsizing of the news staff and local news coverage.

 

[davideduardo]

It's big news that WBLK is down 2.1 since July. It could be diary placement, which would also account for the boost for 97-Rock and WYRK, and even suburban conservatives listening to WBEN. WECK's rise makes it look like the loss of JP may have been more plus than minus, at least 12+. The demographics will tell whether the listeners are in the demographics the station was shooting for under his regime. In fact, the whole book may simply be skewing older since 12+ numbers would be closer to raw listeners without the weighting that evens out male-female and age group numbers.

A book can't "skew older" as each age cell is weighted in proportion to the market population.

However, if younger people are listening less and the older people are listening the same, then the total 12+ share will demonstrate higher shares of total listening because more of it is in 35+ or even 55+.

 

[Newsradioguy]

You would think that the continued decline of WBFO would indicate to someone that programming changes like putting "The Bridge" on in the evening hours and featuring it on weekends might not be bringing new listeners on board and alienating those who were already donating. Maybe they've got corporate underwriting backing that play, but they need to be concerned about overall listening and contributions.

They’re certainly alienating more longtime listeners than they’re bringing in. I can’t imagine anyone discovered The Bridge and then started listening to public radio news. So let’s see, they got rid of all their talented veteran reporters/announcers, decimated their midday and evening programming, greatly reduced the amount of local news they cover, and don’t even do local newscasts outside of morning and afternoon drive. Shocking that their numbers are in the tank.

 

[tbolt909]

A book can't "skew older" as each age cell is weighted in proportion to the market population.

However, if younger people are listening less and the older people are listening the same, then the total 12+ share will demonstrate higher shares of total listening because more of it is in 35+ or even 55+.

The over 55 crowd is the only reason that stations like WBEN, 97 Rock, and WECK have an audience at all. Older listeners are also more likely to return a Nielsen diary. It's ridiculous to think that the 3 stations I mentioned are attracting any NEW younger listeners...

 

[SirRoxalot]

A book can't "skew older" as each age cell is weighted in proportion to the market population.

However, if younger people are listening less and the older people are listening the same, then the total 12+ share will demonstrate higher shares of total listening because more of it is in 35+ or even 55+.

Um, isn't that essentially whet I said? If more older people are listening, the 12+ skews toward older people's listening patterns. I understand that it would affect 12+ more than demos. The demos always are manipulated to represent that audience segment more appropriately, but there's less effect 12+.

 

[TheBigA]

Let's also not forget the downsizing of the news staff and local news coverage.

So let’s see, they got rid of all their talented veteran reporters/announcers, decimated their midday and evening programming, greatly reduced the amount of local news they cover, and don’t even do local newscasts outside of morning and afternoon drive. Shocking that their numbers are in the tank.

If you broaden the view beyond Buffalo, there have been staff cutbacks in public radio across the country. Even the most venerable stations, such as WBUR Boston and KPCC LA have made major staff cuts. It's not because of memberships, but the loss of corporate money. New York Public Radio just dropped local news on WQXR and let go of 8% of their staff due to a $10 million budget shortfall.

WBFO is unique among radio stations in Buffalo in that it has a co-owned TV station. Whenever I worked for radio-TV combos, the TV station always was the priority, and is always more expensive to run. So if WNYPB is seeing the same losses in corporate money that everyone else is seeing, it's no wonder they've laid off reporters and are doing less local coverage. They can't pay staff when they're dealing with a budget shortfall.

 

[tbolt909]

WBFO and WBEN are not the same format. It's impossible to make comparisons because they exist in different universes. The ratings are not really relevant at this point. WBEN has a listener base that is almost entirely White Men over 60. They may have some long time advertisers that will stick with them, but the future is bleak.

As mentioned, WBFO is part of WNED TV group. Public Radio & TV are facing challenges just like Audacy. WBFO seems to be attempting to pivot (The Bridge) with an eye on the future. It may or may not work. Meanwhile, WBEN will just plod along its well worn groove to obsolescence...

 

[SirRoxalot]

WBFO and WBEN are not the same format. It's impossible to make comparisons because they exist in different universes. The ratings are not really relevant at this point. WBEN has a listener base that is almost entirely White Men over 60. They may have some long time advertisers that will stick with them, but the future is bleak.

Let's note that prognostication. I believe it's a repeat of similar pronouncements in 2023, 2022, 2021, 2020, etc. In fact, let me quote a post from 2015:

• Apr 24, 2015
• #19

PPM ratings would be a death blow for WBEN. They benefit from being in a
market that is "old". That makes their 12+ number look much better compared
to what other News/Talk stations get in bigger growing markets.

NPR and WBFO have viable futures.
WBEN can shop for a headstone...

 

[davideduardo]

The over 55 crowd is the only reason that stations like WBEN, 97 Rock, and WECK have an audience at all.

97 Rock has ample under-55 audience. The other two are primarily over 50 and that is why most of their clients are from local agencies and local direct accounts.

Older listeners are also more likely to return a Nielsen diary.

So what? Nielsen knows that and overrecruits in the age, gender and ethnic cells that under-respond. They have an objective of creating a proportional sample on all the stratification variables, and that also includes geographic distribution, education and income levels.

It's ridiculous to think that the 3 stations I mentioned are attracting any NEW younger listeners...

So what? There is ample sales opportunity with a station that delivers 35 and over or even 45 and over.

 

[tbolt909]

Let's note that prognostication.

Audacy sold their biggest FM Buffalo station to EMF. That should tell you something about how they view the future prospects of a cluster with 4 AM stations.

You criticize WBFO for making staffing cuts and programming changes, but seem OK with the course that WBEN has stubbornly stuck with. Sure, the demographics in Buffalo have let WBEN survive longer than its counterparts in bigger markets...

 

[RadioGuy1864]

Audacy sold their biggest FM Buffalo station to EMF. That should tell you something about how they view the future prospects of a cluster with 4 AM stations.

You criticize WBFO for making staffing cuts and programming changes, but seem OK with the course that WBEN has stubbornly stuck with. Sure, the demographics in Buffalo have let WBEN survive longer than its counterparts in bigger markets...

Since radio is, and has always been, about cash flow, I'm confident the cluster is still profitable. What was then Entercom acquired most of it before prices went insane (except for WLKK, that's another story). Yes, 4 AM's, 2 of which generate significant cash flow, an FM that bills decently and 2 AM's and an FM rimshot that pay their electric bills. There are worse clusters to own in the country.

 

[Rusty Bridges]

Here's a link to the September ratings, Persons 12+
Quite a feat, both 97 Rock and WYRK, tied at the top of the heap.

 

[tbolt909]

Here's a link to the September ratings, Persons 12+
Quite a feat, both 97 Rock and WYRK, tied at the top of the heap.

What's interesting is that their counterparts in format
(WBUF and WLKK) are totally irrelevant. They have abysmal ratings. Do people in Buffalo listen By Rote and simply write down the "Legacy" stations? Listening habits are pretty much set in stone it appears...

 

[ckg279]

It's big news that WBLK is down 2.1 since July. It could be diary placement, which would also account for the boost for 97-Rock and WYRK, and even suburban conservatives listening to WBEN. WECK's rise makes it look like the loss of JP may have been more plus than minus, at least 12+. The demographics will tell whether the listeners are in the demographics the station was shooting for under his regime. In fact, the whole book may simply be skewing older since 12+ numbers would be closer to raw listeners without the weighting that evens out male-female and age group numbers.

You would think that the continued decline of WBFO would indicate to someone that programming changes like putting "The Bridge" on in the evening hours and featuring it on weekends might not be bringing new listeners on board and alienating those who were already donating. Maybe they've got corporate underwriting backing that play, but they need to be concerned about overall listening and contributions.

If memory serves, WBLK always does better in the summer. I could not tell you why, however.

 

[ckg279]

WBFO and WBEN are not the same format. It's impossible to make comparisons because they exist in different universes. The ratings are not really relevant at this point. WBEN has a listener base that is almost entirely White Men over 60. They may have some long time advertisers that will stick with them, but the future is bleak.

As mentioned, WBFO is part of WNED TV group. Public Radio & TV are facing challenges just like Audacy. WBFO seems to be attempting to pivot (The Bridge) with an eye on the future. It may or may not work. Meanwhile, WBEN will just plod along its well worn groove to obsolescence...

Exactly. I've often said that WBEN has one foot in the grave and the other one is just ITCHING to join them. Their older listeners are fading away and younger listeners are NOT replacing them.

 

[davideduardo]

Exactly. I've often said that WBEN has one foot in the grave and the other one is just ITCHING to join them. Their older listeners are fading away and younger listeners are NOT replacing them.

Fact: people get one year older only once a year. There are plenty of listeners valued by local direct and local agency accounts who are over 55 who can sustain old-leaning formats for many, many year.

Not everyone dies at age 65, either.

 

[SirRoxalot]

What's interesting is that their counterparts in format
(WBUF and WLKK) are totally irrelevant. They have abysmal ratings. Do people in Buffalo listen By Rote and simply write down the "Legacy" stations? Listening habits are pretty much set in stone it appears...

Maybe 97-Rock and WYRK simply offer a better product, more familiar personalities, and music that is more listenable to the ears of a bigger portion of the market.

 

[tbolt909]

Fact: people get one year older only once a year. There are plenty of listeners valued by local direct and local agency accounts who are over 55 who can sustain old-leaning formats for many, many year.

Not everyone dies at age 65, either.

That is contrary to the mantra you preach about "It's too expensive and not worth trying to reach older demos with ads", It's too hard to get a sale, they don't respond to ads, etc.."

It's true that quite a few folks between 65-85 are still healthy and active. They go to restaurants, take cruises, get their cars repaired. They are still consumers while they are alive. Corporate Radio and agencies shun them because "It's too hard to get a sale". That's what you've said countless times. If an independent operator can monetize older demos, then a Corporate group should be able to. They have decided it's not worth it...