Shake Up in Wilmington Arbitrons

[bierkenstock]

Since Wilmington's last book (Spring '05) Clear Channel pulled Rush off WDEL and moved him to their WILM. WILM's Allan Loudell left morning drive to do noon-time interviews on WDEL opposite hour one of Rush. Delmarva's WDEL added News-Journal columnist Al Mascitti to do a local-live talk show up against WILM's John Watson. WDEL moved Rick Jensen from late mornings opposite Jensen to go opposite Rush, adding Watson's former regular fill-in Jerry Fulcher as co-host.

WILM had an unsually good overall 12+ AQH share in the spring. Their current numbers are back down to within the range they have normally occupied in recent years. However, WDEL shows a significant drop with one their lowest shares in memory.

Apparently, change is bad. The ditto-heads may have tuned out WDEL but it looks like they did not follow him back to WILM (the first station in town to carry his program). Loudell's Legions likewise may not have stayed with the new morning crew but apparently Loudell did not bring them along with him.

In the see-saw battle for the top spot in Wilmington, AC station WJBR is down and Delmarva's CHR station WSTW comes out on top (although they don't have numbers quite as impressive as JBR last time around). Much of JBR's loss may be Philly AC station B-101's gain (The Bee is at number 10 this time).

Solid gains for Delmarva's Country station WXCY (with XTU down in Wilmington) and for Clear Channel's Philly Urban station WDAS-FM. Greater Media's BEN continues to climb in Wilmington.

Philly stations continue to dominate the Wilmington market with seven of the top 10 and about a two-thirds share of the audience on average.

Clear Channel's sports talker "The Ticket" is off the radar and CBS Radio's WIP places pretty well at number 11 in the market. CBS Radio's FM talker WYSP is the top performing talk station in the Wilmington market coming in at number nine in their last book with Howard (and their last book pre Free FM).

 

[KlassikKountry]

JKS continues to drop like a Rock, why doesn't our boy put Active or Alternative on that cursed signal, or just sell it.

 

[BobAltimari]

> JKS continues to drop like a Rock, why doesn't our boy put
> Active or Alternative on that cursed signal, or just sell
> it.
>

As long as Tony Q owns it, it will always be some form of Urban. He sees himself as the hip hop generation's Butterball.<P ID="signature">______________
I've done it all...HOO HOO...tell 'em, Fred!
FOX News Alert: YOU SUCK!!! Ya like apples?</P>

 

[Jim_Hicks]

WSTW over taking WJBR may be a major story, if it can continue next Spring. But with Johnny B gone just before the good numbers became public, 93-7 may have a problem keeping that lead. WSTW was the top dog throughout the 90's. I wonder if they can continue this one rating period dominance.

The WDEL/WILM situation is interesting. I continue to believe that the Spring WILM numbers were, in fact, incorrect. Clear Channel had just bought the station. CC wants to dump Arbitron. I believe Arbitron was generous with the numbers to curry favor with CC. In other words, I doubt if the true numbers were any different from last Fall and Fall 2005.

WDEL has been hurt by the loss of Rush. The WDEL audience is more conservative. The WILM audience is more liberal. The station had little success with Rush last time around (granted the show was a delayed broadcast from 1-4, so local listeners really could not call in even if they had been so inclined; they did call when WDEL ran it live). Picking up Alan Loudell should have been a briliant move. However, they have done little to advertise him. Listeners only find out about the switch by word of mouth. Since WDEL does nothing else to promote him, he cannot benefit the station. Add to that, the first few weeks he was on, he had the "deer in the headlights" presentation. He breathed heavily into the mike and sounded scared out of his wits. It was not the Loudell WILM listeners heard: confident, in charge and knowledgeable. He is better now, has a very experienced producer (Greg Lance)and seems to be finding his nitch. But a basic problem exists. WILM listeners had grown used to his noon long form newscasts. WDEL listeners are more "Action News" type listeners. They want 20" stories. They are not long form news listeners ( and many are really not the type to appreciate Alla's intelligence). This show on 1150 will take a long time to take holt.

As has been pointed out, "The Ticket" is a lost cause. ESPN 1550 in Cecil county (part of the Wilmington Metro) is nowhere. Of course a 1 watt pre-sunrise and night time power restriction does not help! The 1510 Gospel station that claims to be in Wilmington does not show. WAMS continues to remain totally unknown in New Castle County, but the Philly FM Gospel station continues to grow in Wilmington (it slipped some in Philly while WDAS-AM saw some fans return). The two AMer's here trying to outdo a Philly FM are going to learn the hard lesson. You cannot compete with an FM station playing the same music. Why waste an AM frequency airing something no one wants to hear?


Since Wilmington's last book (Spring '05) Clear Channel
> pulled Rush off WDEL and moved him to their WILM. WILM's
> Allan Loudell left morning drive to do noon-time interviews
> on WDEL opposite hour one of Rush. Delmarva's WDEL added
> News-Journal columnist Al Mascitti to do a local-live talk
> show up against WILM's John Watson. WDEL moved Rick Jensen
> from late mornings opposite Jensen to go opposite Rush,
> adding Watson's former regular fill-in Jerry Fulcher as
> co-host.
>
> WILM had an unsually good overall 12+ AQH share in the
> spring. Their current numbers are back down to within the
> range they have normally occupied in recent years. However,
> WDEL shows a significant drop with one their lowest shares
> in memory.
>
> Apparently, change is bad. The ditto-heads may have tuned
> out WDEL but it looks like they did not follow him back to
> WILM (the first station in town to carry his program).
> Loudell's Legions likewise may not have stayed with the new
> morning crew but apparently Loudell did not bring them along
> with him.
>
> In the see-saw battle for the top spot in Wilmington, AC
> station WJBR is down and Delmarva's CHR station WSTW comes
> out on top (although they don't have numbers quite as
> impressive as JBR last time around). Much of JBR's loss may
> be Philly AC station B-101's gain (The Bee is at number 10
> this time).
>
> Solid gains for Delmarva's Country station WXCY (with XTU
> down in Wilmington) and for Clear Channel's Philly Urban
> station WDAS-FM. Greater Media's BEN continues to climb in
> Wilmington.
>
> Philly stations continue to dominate the Wilmington market
> with seven of the top 10 and about a two-thirds share of the
> audience on average.
>
> Clear Channel's sports talker "The Ticket" is off the radar
> and CBS Radio's WIP places pretty well at number 11 in the
> market. CBS Radio's FM talker WYSP is the top performing
> talk station in the Wilmington market coming in at number
> nine in their last book with Howard (and their last book pre
> Free FM).
>

 

[bierkenstock]

Same old, same old

You are repeating two of the more popular falsehoods known to circulate around WILM. As Joseph Geobbels said, you repeat a lie often enough and people believe it.

For years, in the face of low ratings, some at WILM have claimed that when the station's ratings were poor, it was because WILM did not subscribe to Arbitron. Now you have given this canard a new twist claiming it is because Clear Channel wants to dump Arbitron. The illogic here is overwhelming. Why isn't Arbitron doing this with all 1200 Clear Channel stations (many of which seem to be doing quite well as the Fall numbers come out)? Clear Channel has been moving for years to overhaul the ratings system. They were doing this last Spring. I suppose you believe Arbitron goosed the station's numbers in the Spring to "curry favor" with Clear Channel but since that did not work, Arbitron is now punishing Clear Channel by lowering the ratings. Here's a bulletin: Wilmington and WILM are not the center of the universe. Not for Clear Channel; not for Arbitron.

There are flaws in Arbitron's diary panel system and sampling method which can lead to flukes. But if you accuse Arbitron of deliberate fraud in a public forum, you'd better have proof.

And then there's myth number two: WDEL's audience is more conservative; WILM's is more liberal. I wonder if the person who liked to claim that is still using this line now that he's at the "other" station. Do you have any evidence for this claim at all? (I'll wait.) There is evidence many people listen to both stations. Further there is evidence that many people confuse the two stations (which can really screw up Arbitron diary results). WILM runs conservative hosts like John Watson (whom the Delaware Green Party calls a "hostile reactionary") and strident Salem conservative host Mike Gallagher (even before Rush and Savage were added). The station's news coverage under its prior manager was consistently pro-war, pro-administration and socially conservative (consistent with views of its hosts). This is hardly the kind of programming to build a "more liberal" audience. Then again, Wilmington has never had progressive talk radio so it might be hard for some people to recognize.

When WILM broadcast Rush in the '90's, only the first hour was delayed. Hours two and three were live. People could call in.

re: "Allan's intelligence" This is precisely what makes him such a poor interviewer. His purpose is to show how smart he is, not get his guests to talk (which might result in them showing how smart they are).

Also false is your assertion about WDEL's "Action News" orientation. WDEL has consistently been doing long-form series and features in its two news blocks. It also has been more flexible in alloting extra time to stories which need extra time. They are able to do this AND to follow their format (following the format is something WILM's undisciplined former morning host seemed to have trouble doing). Maybe having a board op (sorry, "producer") will help.

Picking up Loudell would be a brilliant move if WDEL's aim to deprive a competitor of a key on-air presence (or seek revenge for losing Rush). It may not be so brilliant if seen as a move to enhance WDEL's programming. He's doing the same-old interviews with the same old usual suspects and asking the same old questions. He also has the same old sponsor, which may be part of deal here.



>
> The WDEL/WILM situation is interesting. I continue to
> believe that the Spring WILM numbers were, in fact,
> incorrect. Clear Channel had just bought the station. CC
> wants to dump Arbitron. I believe Arbitron was generous
> with the numbers to curry favor with CC. In other words, I
> doubt if the true numbers were any different from last Fall
> and Fall 2005.
>
> WDEL has been hurt by the loss of Rush. The WDEL audience
> is more conservative. The WILM audience is more liberal.
> The station had little success with Rush last time around
> (granted the show was a delayed broadcast from 1-4, so local
> listeners really could not call in even if they had been so
> inclined; they did call when WDEL ran it live). Picking up
> Alan Loudell should have been a briliant move.

> WILM listeners had grown used to
> his noon long form newscasts. WDEL listeners are more
> "Action News" type listeners. They want 20" stories. They
> are not long form news listeners ( and many are really not
> the type to appreciate Alla's intelligence). This show on
> 1150 will take a long time to take holt.
>

 

[Jim_Hicks]

Re: Same old, same old

First, I worked for WDEL. I know how I was told to present the stories. I was told "use the Action News approach." I am not making this up.

Second, in the Spring, WILM was part of the subscription package for the first time. Rating "adjustments usually happen with the first book, not with all others. After the first book, you are back on your own.

Third, I also know the telephone conversations which have taken place when Arbitron marketers have sought to sign up new stations. As a station Operation Manager, you learn these things. I have also talked with enough owners who have been approached by the marketers.

John Watson a "reactionary". Hardly. I've had conversations with him.

Ole Mikie in the afternoon? He ticks off my liberal friends and conservative me.

With the confusion, you have a good point. That is why WDEL works to promote "1150". Having the "50" in both frequencies can cause a problem.

I believe picking up Allan was for the two reasons you mention. Revenge? Certainly. To deprive WILM of his talent? Certainly. Thats called BUSINESS.



> You are repeating two of the more popular falsehoods known
> to circulate around WILM. As Joseph Geobbels said, you
> repeat a lie often enough and people believe it.
>
> For years, in the face of low ratings, some at WILM have
> claimed that when the station's ratings were poor, it was
> because WILM did not subscribe to Arbitron. Now you have
> given this canard a new twist claiming it is because Clear
> Channel wants to dump Arbitron. The illogic here is
> overwhelming. Why isn't Arbitron doing this with all 1200
> Clear Channel stations (many of which seem to be doing quite
> well as the Fall numbers come out)? Clear Channel has been
> moving for years to overhaul the ratings system. They were
> doing this last Spring. I suppose you believe Arbitron
> goosed the station's numbers in the Spring to "curry favor"
> with Clear Channel but since that did not work, Arbitron is
> now punishing Clear Channel by lowering the ratings. Here's
> a bulletin: Wilmington and WILM are not the center of the
> universe. Not for Clear Channel; not for Arbitron.
>
> There are flaws in Arbitron's diary panel system and
> sampling method which can lead to flukes. But if you accuse
> Arbitron of deliberate fraud in a public forum, you'd better
> have proof.
>
> And then there's myth number two: WDEL's audience is more
> conservative; WILM's is more liberal. I wonder if the
> person who liked to claim that is still using this line now
> that he's at the "other" station. Do you have any evidence
> for this claim at all? (I'll wait.) There is evidence many
> people listen to both stations. Further there is evidence
> that many people confuse the two stations (which can really
> screw up Arbitron diary results). WILM runs conservative
> hosts like John Watson (whom the Delaware Green Party calls
> a "hostile reactionary") and strident Salem conservative
> host Mike Gallagher (even before Rush and Savage were
> added). The station's news coverage under its prior manager
> was consistently pro-war, pro-administration and socially
> conservative (consistent with views of its hosts). This is
> hardly the kind of programming to build a "more liberal"
> audience. Then again, Wilmington has never had progressive
> talk radio so it might be hard for some people to recognize.
>
>
> When WILM broadcast Rush in the '90's, only the first hour
> was delayed. Hours two and three were live. People could
> call in.
>
> re: "Allan's intelligence" This is precisely what makes him
> such a poor interviewer. His purpose is to show how smart
> he is, not get his guests to talk (which might result in
> them showing how smart they are).
>
> Also false is your assertion about WDEL's "Action News"
> orientation. WDEL has consistently been doing long-form
> series and features in its two news blocks. It also has
> been more flexible in alloting extra time to stories which
> need extra time. They are able to do this AND to follow
> their format (following the format is something WILM's
> undisciplined former morning host seemed to have trouble
> doing). Maybe having a board op (sorry, "producer") will
> help.
>
> Picking up Loudell would be a brilliant move if WDEL's aim
> to deprive a competitor of a key on-air presence (or seek
> revenge for losing Rush). It may not be so brilliant if
> seen as a move to enhance WDEL's programming. He's doing
> the same-old interviews with the same old usual suspects and
> asking the same old questions. He also has the same old
> sponsor, which may be part of deal here.
>
>
>
> >
> > The WDEL/WILM situation is interesting. I continue to
> > believe that the Spring WILM numbers were, in fact,
> > incorrect. Clear Channel had just bought the station. CC
>
> > wants to dump Arbitron. I believe Arbitron was generous
> > with the numbers to curry favor with CC. In other words,
> I
> > doubt if the true numbers were any different from last
> Fall
> > and Fall 2005.
> >
> > WDEL has been hurt by the loss of Rush. The WDEL audience
>
> > is more conservative. The WILM audience is more liberal.
>
> > The station had little success with Rush last time around
> > (granted the show was a delayed broadcast from 1-4, so
> local
> > listeners really could not call in even if they had been
> so
> > inclined; they did call when WDEL ran it live). Picking
> up
> > Alan Loudell should have been a briliant move.
>
> > WILM listeners had grown used to
> > his noon long form newscasts. WDEL listeners are more
> > "Action News" type listeners. They want 20" stories.
> They
> > are not long form news listeners ( and many are really not
>
> > the type to appreciate Alla's intelligence). This show on
>
> > 1150 will take a long time to take holt.
> >
>

 

[ixnay]

Re: Same old, same old

> With the confusion, you have a good point. That is why WDEL
> works to promote "1150".

They once didn't. Joining my mom on shopping trips to Sears on Lea Blvd. when I was 9 or 10 in 1970-71, I saw billboards on Philadelphia Pike for "Radio 115" WDEL (as well as billboards for WILM featuring an Andy Warhol style soup can).

During this era in the summers, after the Phillies postgame show on 'DEL (about the only thing I listened to 1150 for back then, which was more than I listened to 1450 for), I'd hear this jingle bridging into regular programming...

Ser-ving you
From the First Ci-ty of the First State
Double-U-D-E-L
Radio One-One-Five
In Willl-minnnng-tonnnnnn

By 1976 WDEL had become "Radio 1150" IIRC.

ixnay

 

[radiophile]

Re: Same old, same old

Some comments on the above two posts.

1. WDEL has a billboard on Route 202 in North Wilmington, bright yellow with black lettering (WILM's old colors) that says, "Where is Allan Loudell? He's on at Noon on 1150 WDEL." I only pass through Delaware on occasion, but this is the only Loudell billboard I've seen. They have one along I-95 for SnowWatch.

2. The second and third hours of Rush on WILM were not live. All three hours were tape delayed. WILM played the Gallagher hours out of order from 1-4pm, but not Rush.

3. A note of interest: The first time around WILM had Rush AND Allan, it had a 12+ Arbitron in one book that was exactly two times the 12+ in this book. It had at least a two more books in which the 12+ was above this past Spring's 12+. For a 1000watt AM, the Rush and Loudell years on WILM had great ratings, far above WDEL at the time. They just could never sell Rush effectively.

4. Political labels are in the eyes of the beholder. Many people would not call John Watson conservative. I'd say moderate, with some conservative opinions AND some liberal ones, too. Probably more like Jim Bohannon. When WILM had rotating hosts on Newstalk PM, four out of five nights were hosted by liberals. HOWEVER: When talking to some people in the Wilmington city community, people would say, "The Hawkins are Republicans. They're conservatives." Not that the Hawkins had any direct influence on what talk hosts had to say on WILM when they owned it, but, once again, everything is a matter of perception. I found the Hawkins to be moderates - fiscal conservatives, social progressives.

On another note: Wilmington is fortunate to have two AM stations, separately owned, that are doing good local news reporting. For similarly sized markets in much worse shape for radio news, see Harrisburg, Allentown and Scranton PA and Syracuse, NY.

 

[MikefromDelaware]

Re: Same old, same old

WDEL prior to the 1970-71 time frame did use the 1150 rather than 115. A lot of people do confuse the two (WDEL and WILM) as I've heard people say WILM is at 1150 and WDEL is at 1450.

I'd agree with Jim's comments about WDEL's newscasts as being a more "action news format" or faster paced that has a more "hyped" sound to it whereas WILM's newscasts have a slower pace where the presentation isn't being as "rushed" and definitely not hyped. Some folks prefer the faster paced style others prefer the slower paced style, different strokes. Loudell did sound very rushed and yes out of breath when he first went over to WDEL vs when he was at WILM. Even now, his presentation isn't as relaxed as his WILM days, but WDEL's news style is different than WILM's. Sort of like comparing Channel 6's action newscast with Channel 3's newscast. Both are covering essentially the same news, but have different styles and approaches in how they present it. The style you prefer will probably decide which station (WDEL or WILM) you'll tune into for your radio news.

> > With the confusion, you have a good point. That is why
> WDEL
> > works to promote "1150".
>
> They once didn't. Joining my mom on shopping trips to Sears
> on Lea Blvd. when I was 9 or 10 in 1970-71, I saw billboards
> on Philadelphia Pike for "Radio 115" WDEL (as well as
> billboards for WILM featuring an Andy Warhol style soup
> can).
>
> During this era in the summers, after the Phillies postgame
> show on 'DEL (about the only thing I listened to 1150 for
> back then, which was more than I listened to 1450 for), I'd
> hear this jingle bridging into regular programming...
>
> Ser-ving you
> From the First Ci-ty of the First State
> Double-U-D-E-L
> Radio One-One-Five
> In Willl-minnnng-tonnnnnn
>
> By 1976 WDEL had become "Radio 1150" IIRC.
>
> ixnay
>

 

[bierkenstock]

No So!

Political labels are well-defined. To be specific, Watson's on-air views fit precisely the definition of a neo-con. Neo-cons in the Democratic party may labels themselves "moderates" or "New Democrats" but their experessed views are entirely consistent with Neo-conservatism (which is different from true conservatism). Loudell's expressed views make him a social conservative.

To suggest that station owners do not have an influence on what hosts say is somewhat naive.

Newstalk PM was broadcast in the evening, and after local sunset most of the year. It had a minimal audience. In latter years it was a "public access" program for various "community groups" (who filled the time at no cost to the station).

Both Wilmington radio news operations as a matter of policy limit stories to 40 seconds. However, only one Wilmington radio station consistently follows its own format and keeps stories within prescribed time limits. And one Wilmington radio station also hires people with solid on-air delivery (the difference is currently most notable in morning drive). Some may compare that station's authoritative delivery to Action News; I would consider major market versus small market sound a more apt description.

In the early 90's, before Rush was cleared in Philadelphia, I tuned around on my car radio as I drove to listen to Rush from WABC, WAEB, WHP, WSBA and WILM (depending on the reception where I happened to be at the moment). During hours two and three, Rush on WILM was in sync with the other stations. At some point, the entire program may have been delayed (although doing so makes little sense) but when I listened this was not the case. Please re-check.

After WWDB picked up Rush and WILM dropped the program, Loudell generated a considerable amount of national and industry buzz for himself by being the first station ever to drop Rush. Loudell was quoted as saying the show had "peaked." He could have pointed out that Rush had become available on an FM station with equal or better coverage of Wilmington. He also could have mentioned that Rush's syndicator had begun charging stations for the show and his employers were averse to spending money. But he would not have gotten as much buzz with those.

WILM's problem (as you say) selling Rush effectively, may have something to do with former management's conscious (and public promoted) decision to hire only sales people with no experience in broadcast sales and not to negotiate off the rate card (to sell only at published rates contrary to industry practice).

Despite staff complaints, the Hawkins' never invested in station promotion. One Loudell billboard is an increase from zero previously.

Was this 12+ book before or after WDEL flipped to its current format?

The question of whether Wilmington has two local radio stations doing GOOD local reporting is a matter of perception and in the ears of the beholder. "Good" implies an evaluation. However, these stations (like most radio stations) have practiced self-promotion and "spin." Some of their claims about themselves, their operations, their audiences and the market need to be subject to appropriate scrutiny. And I would not agree that news operations such as Clear Channel's WHP, Harrisburg, WAEB, Allentown and Entercom's WICK in Scranton are in "much worse shape."

 

[radiophile]

Re: No So!

Ok, time for a disclaimer.
I worked at WILM from 1988 to 1999. Full-time.


> To suggest that station owners do not have an influence on
> what hosts say is somewhat naive.

The Hawkins never told a talk show host on their station what to say.
OK, Watson isn't a liberal. I haven't listened to him recently. Maybe he is more conservative now.
Good point about Newstalk PM not having the same effect on the market because of its 7-8PM air time. During winter a good part of the market can't even hear it.


> In the early 90's, before Rush was cleared in Philadelphia,
> I tuned around on my car radio as I drove to listen to Rush
> from WABC, WAEB, WHP, WSBA and WILM (depending on the
> reception where I happened to be at the moment). During
> hours two and three, Rush on WILM was in sync with the other
> stations. At some point, the entire program may have been
> delayed (although doing so makes little sense) but when I
> listened this was not the case. Please re-check.

I was part of the daily taping of all three hours of Rush and then playing them back in order on large reel to reel tapes. With the quality of equipment at the station, combined with some staffers who were a little less than competent, and people who would not clean the heads on the tape machines, it was a royal pain that I'll never forget. You probably tuned in on a number of days when the process was screwed up (it happened probably at least once a month if not more) and we were forced to air some hours live. Boy, did we get phone call complaints when we screwed up.


> Was this 12+ book before or after WDEL flipped to its
> current format?

After. ILM and DEL were head to head in news/talk. DEL was carrying a mix of local talk and secondary syndicated shows such as Dr. Joy from WOR.

> The question of whether Wilmington has two local radio
> stations doing GOOD local reporting is a matter of
> perception and in the ears of the beholder. "Good" implies
> an evaluation. However, these stations (like most radio
> stations) have practiced self-promotion and "spin." Some of
> their claims about themselves, their operations, their
> audiences and the market need to be subject to appropriate
> scrutiny. And I would not agree that news operations such
> as Clear Channel's WHP, Harrisburg, WAEB, Allentown and
> Entercom's WICK in Scranton are in "much worse shape."

Last time I checked the Northeast PA board, people were complaining about how there is NO real radio news in the Scranton market. What does WICK have? I'm aware that WILK recently cut its news department back to one full time person. WARM gave up on local news a while ago.
And I'm not sure about the WHP WAEB situation. WAEB has what, four full-time news people? And they feed news to their co-located Lehigh Valley stations and to Y-102 in Reading. Doesn't the WHP newsroom cover WAEB newscasts sometimes also? How can you have quality news when you're busy feeding all those stations? And I've heard some newscasters on WAEB whose delivery really left something to be desired.
I guess I long for the days in the Lehigh Valley when WEST had seven full-time news people to serve only two stations (their AM and FM). WAEB was up to six full timers at one point, serving only two stations. WEEX had up to six full time people, and even WSAN had three or four and WKAP had two. ALL at the same time. And I remember WARM being a top 40 station in the 70s with a full service news department.

I agree with a number of your points about the WILM situation. Those above are the only ones I disagree with.

 

[MikefromDelaware]

Re: No So!

As a former NewsTalk PM host on WILM about four years ago, and fill in host a couple of times during the past couple of months for Wendy Levine's Saturday night talk show when she's been on vacation neither the Hawkins, Loudell, the new management from CC or Mark Fowser (Loudell's replacement) have ever tried to influence my thoughts or opinions or suggested topics to discuss on my talk shows.

John Watson is liberal on social issues and conservative on war type issues. He's said a number of times that he didn't vote for Bush, but supports his war on terrorism, etc.

Wilmington is fortunate in having two radio stations that actually staff a news department that are doing radio news (WDEL and WILM). Both have budgets and limited resources, etc, which would keep them from doing more, and both put out a product that serves the community just fine. Their approaches and style are different, which gives the Wilmington listener a choice. The only other real sources for Wilmington local news would be the News Journal and of course Channel 12's 5:30pm Delaware Tonight newscast. So radio news takes on a more important role in Wilmington than in Philly which gets plenty of TV coverage from 4 commercial stations.

> Ok, time for a disclaimer.
> I worked at WILM from 1988 to 1999. Full-time.
>
>
> > To suggest that station owners do not have an influence on
>
> > what hosts say is somewhat naive.
>
> The Hawkins never told a talk show host on their station
> what to say.
> OK, Watson isn't a liberal. I haven't listened to him
> recently. Maybe he is more conservative now.
> Good point about Newstalk PM not having the same effect on
> the market because of its 7-8PM air time. During winter a
> good part of the market can't even hear it.
>
>
> > In the early 90's, before Rush was cleared in
> Philadelphia,
> > I tuned around on my car radio as I drove to listen to
> Rush
> > from WABC, WAEB, WHP, WSBA and WILM (depending on the
> > reception where I happened to be at the moment). During
> > hours two and three, Rush on WILM was in sync with the
> other
> > stations. At some point, the entire program may have been
>
> > delayed (although doing so makes little sense) but when I
> > listened this was not the case. Please re-check.
>
> I was part of the daily taping of all three hours of Rush
> and then playing them back in order on large reel to reel
> tapes. With the quality of equipment at the station,
> combined with some staffers who were a little less than
> competent, and people who would not clean the heads on the
> tape machines, it was a royal pain that I'll never forget.
> You probably tuned in on a number of days when the process
> was screwed up (it happened probably at least once a month
> if not more) and we were forced to air some hours live. Boy,
> did we get phone call complaints when we screwed up.
>
>
> > Was this 12+ book before or after WDEL flipped to its
> > current format?
>
> After. ILM and DEL were head to head in news/talk. DEL was
> carrying a mix of local talk and secondary syndicated shows
> such as Dr. Joy from WOR.
>
> > The question of whether Wilmington has two local radio
> > stations doing GOOD local reporting is a matter of
> > perception and in the ears of the beholder. "Good"
> implies
> > an evaluation. However, these stations (like most radio
> > stations) have practiced self-promotion and "spin." Some
> of
> > their claims about themselves, their operations, their
> > audiences and the market need to be subject to appropriate
>
> > scrutiny. And I would not agree that news operations such
>
> > as Clear Channel's WHP, Harrisburg, WAEB, Allentown and
> > Entercom's WICK in Scranton are in "much worse shape."
>
> Last time I checked the Northeast PA board, people were
> complaining about how there is NO real radio news in the
> Scranton market. What does WICK have? I'm aware that WILK
> recently cut its news department back to one full time
> person. WARM gave up on local news a while ago.
> And I'm not sure about the WHP WAEB situation. WAEB has
> what, four full-time news people? And they feed news to
> their co-located Lehigh Valley stations and to Y-102 in
> Reading. Doesn't the WHP newsroom cover WAEB newscasts
> sometimes also? How can you have quality news when you're
> busy feeding all those stations? And I've heard some
> newscasters on WAEB whose delivery really left something to
> be desired.
> I guess I long for the days in the Lehigh Valley when WEST
> had seven full-time news people to serve only two stations
> (their AM and FM). WAEB was up to six full timers at one
> point, serving only two stations. WEEX had up to six full
> time people, and even WSAN had three or four and WKAP had
> two. ALL at the same time. And I remember WARM being a top
> 40 station in the 70s with a full service news department.
>
> I agree with a number of your points about the WILM
> situation. Those above are the only ones I disagree with.
>

 

[bierkenstock]

What's Next?

OK. I'm convinced. I wonder whose brilliant idea it was to run all three hours of Rush on tape? No, don't tell me. I can guess.

Owners don't need to micro-manage talk show hosts. Owners decide who gets hired and who stays hired. They generally make it clear at the outset what they expect, and they generally know what they are getting when they hire someone. The "culture" at a given station also makes it evident - if not clear - where the lines are, what the sacred cows are, who the owner's friends are and what the owner's pet projects are. In the case of WILM's former owner, I'd call her most socially involved than politically involved - more interested in tea with the DuPonts than the political activism.

I think competition is generally a good thing but I don't see it having much effect in Wilmington. I don't see either radio station doing actual reporting in the sense of digging for stories and uncovering news. Both get the same news releases and call the same spokespeople for sound bites. Both go to the same meetings, staged "photo-op" events and news conferences. There is almost no enterprising of stories.

Competition in the news business is generally dead: One newspaper (or one publisher) in most markets. One wire service. TV competes for "sweeps" exposes ("Teen hookers in our suburbs...what YOU need to know to protect your children") but not really for news. Philly once had three radio news departments in active competition, and even doing some real reporting (KYW, WCAU and WIP). Now KYW does the same kind of "reporting" as the two Wilmington stations and everybody else in town gets news from Metro Networks (owned by the same company as KYW). It's pretty much the same everywhere else.

In addition to tighter editing, WDEL has a far more efficient operation doing more with fewer people. Clear Channel's Harrisburg and Allentown clusters have similarly tight operations. Their people, like WDEL's, do not have the "luxury" of doing only one set (up to five versions of the same story) per day, or having someone whose main function is to pull and stack copy and carts for news readers. It is curious that after close to a year and a half, the Clear Channel style of news operation has not come to their Wilmington cluster.

Dr. Joy is back in the region, on WCOJ in West Chester. The new PD there has posted on Phillytalk that he has made a decision to dump political talk. There is some evidence nationally that audience interest in political talk (of the type practiced by Rush and those who came after him) may have run its course, at least for the time being. However, all talk radio (local and syndicated) in Wilmington is political (and conservative at that, in a Blue county). The 12+ numbers show only shares - they don't show total audience, which may be shrinking. It may be time for somebody in Wilmington to try something new or different in talk-based programming. The question is who will do it and what will it be?

 

[Jim_Hicks]

Re: Same old, same old

Thank you for pointing out the Rush delay. The hours ran in order, therefore they all HAD to be delayed! Thus denying the listeners time to participate.

Rush had numbers with WILM, but you correctly poiint out they could not get sponsors. Rush is expensive to carry as it is, with no corresponding revenue, why bother.

It was interesting that when AM1290 changed to Adult Standards, WILM won morning drive expect for the 6-7am slot, when WDEL won. From 10am to 4pm, WJBR-AM had far more listeners than EITHER WDEL or WILM. The age brackets that listen to AM wanted music, not political talk during the mid day. At 4pm when the work crowd hit the roads, the N/T stations picked up steam again. Interesting note: When Bill Wilmore anchored the pm drive news, WDEL beat WILM from 4-6pm. When 1150 stole Carlotta Bradley from WILM to host that time slot, WDEL dropped like the ol' lead balloon.

Are the Hawkins Republican? Of course they are. The junior Hawkins was Wilmington Republican chairman at one time. He even ran for mayor as a Republican. But northern Delaware Republicans are a different breed. They have long been liberal to moderates, in the Nelson Rockefeller mold. Mike Castle remains as 1 of only 2 Republican statwwide office holders because he is a moderate and not a wild eyed conservative. It is also interesting to note that WILM got Rush the first time around because Rush was too conservative for the moderate Republican WDEL!

> Some comments on the above two posts.
>
> 1. WDEL has a billboard on Route 202 in North Wilmington,
> bright yellow with black lettering (WILM's old colors) that
> says, "Where is Allan Loudell? He's on at Noon on 1150
> WDEL." I only pass through Delaware on occasion, but this is
> the only Loudell billboard I've seen. They have one along
> I-95 for SnowWatch.
>
> 2. The second and third hours of Rush on WILM were not live.
> All three hours were tape delayed. WILM played the Gallagher
> hours out of order from 1-4pm, but not Rush.
>
> 3. A note of interest: The first time around WILM had Rush
> AND Allan, it had a 12+ Arbitron in one book that was
> exactly two times the 12+ in this book. It had at least a
> two more books in which the 12+ was above this past Spring's
> 12+. For a 1000watt AM, the Rush and Loudell years on WILM
> had great ratings, far above WDEL at the time. They just
> could never sell Rush effectively.
>
> 4. Political labels are in the eyes of the beholder. Many
> people would not call John Watson conservative. I'd say
> moderate, with some conservative opinions AND some liberal
> ones, too. Probably more like Jim Bohannon. When WILM had
> rotating hosts on Newstalk PM, four out of five nights were
> hosted by liberals. HOWEVER: When talking to some people in
> the Wilmington city community, people would say, "The
> Hawkins are Republicans. They're conservatives." Not that
> the Hawkins had any direct influence on what talk hosts had
> to say on WILM when they owned it, but, once again,
> everything is a matter of perception. I found the Hawkins to
> be moderates - fiscal conservatives, social progressives.
>
> On another note: Wilmington is fortunate to have two AM
> stations, separately owned, that are doing good local news
> reporting. For similarly sized markets in much worse shape
> for radio news, see Harrisburg, Allentown and Scranton PA
> and Syracuse, NY.
>

 

[MikefromDelaware]

There is a liberal talk show in Wilmington

There is one liberal doing local talk in Wilmington, Wendy Levine, Saturday night from 9pm - 10pm on WILM. Granted the signal doesn't cover the entire county at night as it would during the day time hours, but Wendy definitely is not a conservative. Her show has improved over what she used to do a few years back, even if you don't agree with her point of view. I'm assuming you could pick up her show online as WILM does stream much of their programming now.

> OK. I'm convinced. I wonder whose brilliant idea it was to
> run all three hours of Rush on tape? No, don't tell me. I
> can guess.
>
> Owners don't need to micro-manage talk show hosts. Owners
> decide who gets hired and who stays hired. They generally
> make it clear at the outset what they expect, and they
> generally know what they are getting when they hire someone.
> The "culture" at a given station also makes it evident - if
> not clear - where the lines are, what the sacred cows are,
> who the owner's friends are and what the owner's pet
> projects are. In the case of WILM's former owner, I'd call
> her most socially involved than politically involved - more
> interested in tea with the DuPonts than the political
> activism.
>
> I think competition is generally a good thing but I don't
> see it having much effect in Wilmington. I don't see either
> radio station doing actual reporting in the sense of digging
> for stories and uncovering news. Both get the same news
> releases and call the same spokespeople for sound bites.
> Both go to the same meetings, staged "photo-op" events and
> news conferences. There is almost no enterprising of
> stories.
>
> Competition in the news business is generally dead: One
> newspaper (or one publisher) in most markets. One wire
> service. TV competes for "sweeps" exposes ("Teen hookers in
> our suburbs...what YOU need to know to protect your
> children") but not really for news. Philly once had three
> radio news departments in active competition, and even doing
> some real reporting (KYW, WCAU and WIP). Now KYW does the
> same kind of "reporting" as the two Wilmington stations and
> everybody else in town gets news from Metro Networks (owned
> by the same company as KYW). It's pretty much the same
> everywhere else.
>
> In addition to tighter editing, WDEL has a far more
> efficient operation doing more with fewer people. Clear
> Channel's Harrisburg and Allentown clusters have similarly
> tight operations. Their people, like WDEL's, do not have
> the "luxury" of doing only one set (up to five versions of
> the same story) per day, or having someone whose main
> function is to pull and stack copy and carts for news
> readers. It is curious that after close to a year and a
> half, the Clear Channel style of news operation has not come
> to their Wilmington cluster.
>
> Dr. Joy is back in the region, on WCOJ in West Chester. The
> new PD there has posted on Phillytalk that he has made a
> decision to dump political talk. There is some evidence
> nationally that audience interest in political talk (of the
> type practiced by Rush and those who came after him) may
> have run its course, at least for the time being. However,
> all talk radio (local and syndicated) in Wilmington is
> political (and conservative at that, in a Blue county). The
> 12+ numbers show only shares - they don't show total
> audience, which may be shrinking. It may be time for
> somebody in Wilmington to try something new or different in
> talk-based programming. The question is who will do it and
> what will it be?
>

 

[bierkenstock]

Re: There is a liberal talk show in Wilmington

Saturday night is when radio listening is at or close to rock bottom - especially on talk stations which generally bottom out on weekends (that's why so many public service programs, best of programs and infomercials on talk stations over the weekend). This sounds like a move the primary purpose of which is to placate a station employee.

Much as it pains many of us with a strong interest in radio, outside of week-DAYS hardly anybody is listening.

That said, I think a progressive talk station - or an urban talk station - could do OK in Wilmington. Weekday talk radio in Wilmington does seem at odds with how people vote. Radio One launches their Urban talk network with the Rev Al Sharpton opposite Limbaugh the end of this month. Air America Radio tends to be stridently political but other progressive hosts with a lighter touch and a wider range of content like Thom Hartmann and Stephanie Miller could work.

PS: I know many people see the US political spectrum as a single axis from liberal to conservative with moderates in the middle. Many political scientists see it having multiple axes or dimensions - with few people all the way to the left or all the way to the right on every axis. You might find the following descriptions of "factions" in the Republican and Democratic parties interesting. Based on your description of John Watson's various positions and these descriptions, I think he qualifies as neo-conservative. Rush started out as paleo-conservative and now tends toward neo-conservative.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factions_in_the_Republican_Party_(United_States)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Party_(United_States)#Factions

 

[MikefromDelaware]

Re: There is a liberal talk show in Wilmington

Thanks, I'll check these web sites out.

> Saturday night is when radio listening is at or close to
> rock bottom - especially on talk stations which generally
> bottom out on weekends (that's why so many public service
> programs, best of programs and infomercials on talk stations
> over the weekend). This sounds like a move the primary
> purpose of which is to placate a station employee.
>
> Much as it pains many of us with a strong interest in radio,
> outside of week-DAYS hardly anybody is listening.
>
> That said, I think a progressive talk station - or an urban
> talk station - could do OK in Wilmington. Weekday talk
> radio in Wilmington does seem at odds with how people vote.
> Radio One launches their Urban talk network with the Rev Al
> Sharpton opposite Limbaugh the end of this month. Air
> America Radio tends to be stridently political but other
> progressive hosts with a lighter touch and a wider range of
> content like Thom Hartmann and Stephanie Miller could work.
>
> PS: I know many people see the US political spectrum as a
> single axis from liberal to conservative with moderates in
> the middle. Many political scientists see it having
> multiple axes or dimensions - with few people all the way to
> the left or all the way to the right on every axis. You
> might find the following descriptions of "factions" in the
> Republican and Democratic parties interesting. Based on
> your description of John Watson's various positions and
> these descriptions, I think he qualifies as
> neo-conservative. Rush started out as paleo-conservative
> and now tends toward neo-conservative.
>
http://en.wikipedia.o> rg/wiki/Factions_in_the_Republican_Party_%28United_States%29
>
>
http://en.wiki> pedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Party_%28United_States%29#Factions
>