SHOULD CBS Flip 92.3 Or 102.7 To FM Simulcast Of WCBS-AM/WINS?

[recto101]

There's no reason for CBS to make a move now in NY. They have 3 very successful AM stations by all measures. Why mess with it now?
Let Merlin show its cards for 101.9. If they do launch all-news or sports, CBS has plenty of time to counter attack. But for now, unless you can show material incremental revenue for the cluster from an AM to FM move, there's no compelling reason to do it.

That's CBS' best stategy. It remains to be seen how 101.9 will impact the market. I don't think 101.9 will do all-news with two long-established news stations in the mix. IMHO, it'll be a news/talk hybrid with mostly local programming. It's WABC and WOR that have to watch their backs!

Wait the 101.9 News/Talk format reminds me of KGO 810 am but will 101.9 have any local hosts like KGO?

 

[Barry]

I have revived this old thread due to a tease from AllAccess.
The radio website has an article today about CBS Radio's all-news WBBM AM beginning to simulcast on 105.9 FM, in Chicago, as a response to Merlin's new WWWN FM.
The final sentence in the article appears to be initiating a new rumor: "CHICAGO is now the first market in the country to have two News FMs going head to head ... could NEW YORK be next? Stay tuned."
The common wisdom on the board has been that CBS would not simulcast one of their all-news AM stations on FM, in New York. But sometimes the common wisdom is wrong.

 

[nd2023]

Which station would they blow up for news/talk? CBS-FM is their top-rated station, Fresh brought the best ratings to the 102.7 frequency, and 92.3 Now's doing well too. They did flip Fresh in Chicago.

There's no point flipping any station now, unless 101.9 really hurts 880 and 1010. If anything, I could see CBS getting rid of 1010 first if its ratings and billing fall on the all news stations. Perhaps they could eventually swap 1010 for 94.7

 

[badjef]

I have revived this old thread due to a tease from AllAccess.
The radio website has an article today about CBS Radio's all-news WBBM AM beginning to simulcast on 105.9 FM, in Chicago, as a response to Merlin's new WWWN FM.
The final sentence in the article appears to be initiating a new rumor: "CHICAGO is now the first market in the country to have two News FMs going head to head ... could NEW YORK be next? Stay tuned."
The common wisdom on the board has been that CBS would not simulcast one of their all-news AM stations on FM, in New York. But sometimes the common wisdom is wrong.

Often, more than somtimes. Nowhere have I found that happen more than New York, other than Congress...

If a predictions were never wrong, there would be no reason for sports teams to play.

Where is Ms. Cleo, now?

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[DToTheJ]

Meanwhile, there are once again rumors that CBS Radio/Philadelphia could flip their underperforming FM rock station WYSP to a simulcast of sports WIP.

The argument is, is it worth sacrificing an additional revenue stream from an FM music station, in favor of a simulcast of an existing AM signal? Meanwhile, when you look at CBS' FM properties in New York, they all appear to be doing okay... It wouldn't be beneath CBS to get an FM translator, like they did just recently in Baltimore to transplant their legendary Mid-Atlantic rock station WHFS. Perhaps that could be the fate of WYSP, too? Hmmm...

 

[nd2023]

Meanwhile, there are once again rumors that CBS Radio/Philadelphia could flip their underperforming FM rock station WYSP to a simulcast of sports WIP.

The argument is, is it worth sacrificing an additional revenue stream from an FM music station, in favor of a simulcast of an existing AM signal? Meanwhile, when you look at CBS' FM properties in New York, they all appear to be doing okay... It wouldn't be beneath CBS to get an FM translator, like they did just recently in Baltimore to transplant their legendary Mid-Atlantic rock station WHFS. Perhaps that could be the fate of WYSP, too? Hmmm...

Which translator can they get in NYC? 106.3 is having a hard time getting on the air, and I doubt 106.3 will ever be on the air unless the translator is sold to Press Communications and it translates WTHJ (a.k.a. boosts Thunder 106.3)

 

[Rusty Muck]

I have revived this old thread due to a tease from AllAccess.
The radio website has an article today about CBS Radio's all-news WBBM AM beginning to simulcast on 105.9 FM, in Chicago, as a response to Merlin's new WWWN FM.
The final sentence in the article appears to be initiating a new rumor: "CHICAGO is now the first market in the country to have two News FMs going head to head ... could NEW YORK be next? Stay tuned."
The common wisdom on the board has been that CBS would not simulcast one of their all-news AM stations on FM, in New York. But sometimes the common wisdom is wrong.

But what all-news station would they simulcast first?

If they simulcast WCBS-AM, that seriously undercuts WINS. But if they simulcast WINS, that undercuts the flagship of the CBS Radio Network, WCBS-AM. They would have to simulcast both at the same time, or not at all.

If any of CBS's AM stations simulcasts on FM, WFAN will be the first. And given how long 92.3 and 101.1 last (doubtful 101.1 will flip from classic hits for a looooong time after the 2005 JackFM fiasco) it will be a long while before CBS takes their all-newsers to FM.

 

[radioguy39nj]

But what all-news station would they simulcast first?

If they simulcast WCBS-AM, that seriously undercuts WINS. But if they simulcast WINS, that undercuts the flagship of the CBS Radio Network, WCBS-AM. They would have to simulcast both at the same time, or not at all.

If any of CBS's AM stations simulcasts on FM, WFAN will be the first. And given how long 92.3 and 101.1 last (doubtful 101.1 will flip from classic hits for a looooong time after the 2005 JackFM fiasco) it will be a long while before CBS takes their all-newsers to FM.

IMHO, WINS is more vulnerable to the new 101.9 than WCBS. No matter what happens, WCBS-AM will come first because it is the CBS Radio flagship.

101.1 would not be a good place for CBS to place news or sports because of short spacing with Philadelphia's B-101.

 

[Element9]

WWWN is getting less than rave reviews on the Chicago board. Can Merlin really believe they'll do news better and offer a better product than WINS and WCBS-AM, the heritage news stations in Market #1? Seriously.

 

[Rusty Muck]

WWWN is getting less than rave reviews on the Chicago board. Can Merlin really believe they'll do news better and offer a better product than WINS and WCBS-AM, the heritage news stations in Market #1? Seriously.

And they actually established themselves, while WEMP still is muddling around in quicksand.

I don't think WINS has anything to worry about.

 

[radioguy39nj]

It seems like the only operator that knows how to do FM news/talk the right way is Bonneville. We haven't heard WEMP yet and I'm not so sure Merlin has any idea what they're doing!

 

[TheBigA]

It seems like the only operator that knows how to do FM news/talk the right way is Bonneville.

I'd suggest looking at Cox and Entercom. Neither own stations in NYC but they do a good job with news/talk.

 

[uncamark]

It seems like the only operator that knows how to do FM news/talk the right way is Bonneville. We haven't heard WEMP yet and I'm not so sure Merlin has any idea what they're doing!

WTOP is now owned by Hubbard (with some former Bonneville execs in key positions). However, Bonneville does news-talk on FM in Seattle.

 

[radioguy39nj]

It seems like the only operator that knows how to do FM news/talk the right way is Bonneville. We haven't heard WEMP yet and I'm not so sure Merlin has any idea what they're doing!

WTOP is now owned by Hubbard (with some former Bonneville execs in key positions). However, Bonneville does news-talk on FM in Seattle.

I've listened to KIRO-FM online. It's a nicely programmed station. I was hoping WEMP would sound similar, but given their inauspicious start, I have my doubts. :-X

 

[wpb1999]

There's no point flipping any station now, unless 101.9 really hurts 880 and 1010. If anything, I could see CBS getting rid of 1010 first if its ratings and billing fall on the all news stations. Perhaps they could eventually swap 1010 for 94.7

I think 1010 should be the first one flipped to FM if it does happen because then they would have a better signal in the suburbs and then serve a larger are like 880 already does. I know this is not practical but if one of those two stations need to be taken off it needs to be cbs-am

 

[radioguy39nj]

There's no point flipping any station now, unless 101.9 really hurts 880 and 1010. If anything, I could see CBS getting rid of 1010 first if its ratings and billing fall on the all news stations. Perhaps they could eventually swap 1010 for 94.7

I think 1010 should be the first one flipped to FM if it does happen because then they would have a better signal in the suburbs and then serve a larger are like 880 already does. I know this is not practical but if one of those two stations need to be taken off it needs to be cbs-am

WCBS-AM is CBS' flagship radio station. No way will it ever go away! If CBS has to make a choice as to which news station to get rid of, it will be WINS.

 

[badjef]

All you guys seem to forget how bad NY FM signals really are. You run out of FM signals long before you run out of the 50kw AM's. If you are a commuter living at the Jersey Shore, the AM's are a better choice. The New Yorker FMs are too short-spaced.

The reality is they are tinkling a little stream from a high tower. Empire covers the area, but not near the coverage of the super-soaker AM's WEMP will be competing with.

Most other markets, the FM signals would be dominate, not in New York City.

Show me WEMP in Philly or WWFS in Atlantic City, not a shot!

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[Rusty Muck]

It seems like the only operator that knows how to do FM news/talk the right way is Bonneville. We haven't heard WEMP yet and I'm not so sure Merlin has any idea what they're doing!

WTOP is now owned by Hubbard (with some former Bonneville execs in key positions). However, Bonneville does news-talk on FM in Seattle.

... and there's always that speculation - or wishful thinking - that CBS may someday want to reacquire it's former Washington radio O&O (CBS actually owned WTOP/1500 from 1932 until the early 50s, when the WaPo slowly bought the WTOP stations out). That's why WTOP has been a CBS Radio affiliate ever since.

Who knows. Hubbard isn't going to be in DC forever, even with WTOP as a ratings and revenue juggernaut. And CBS is under the cap in DC/Balto - but is it enough so to take all of the WTOP repeaters?

Just food for thought.

 

[Rusty Muck]

There's no point flipping any station now, unless 101.9 really hurts 880 and 1010. If anything, I could see CBS getting rid of 1010 first if its ratings and billing fall on the all news stations. Perhaps they could eventually swap 1010 for 94.7

I think 1010 should be the first one flipped to FM if it does happen because then they would have a better signal in the suburbs and then serve a larger are like 880 already does. I know this is not practical but if one of those two stations need to be taken off it needs to be cbs-am

WCBS-AM is CBS' flagship radio station. No way will it ever go away! If CBS has to make a choice as to which news station to get rid of, it will be WINS.

As long as WINS performs well enough in revenue and billing, CBS will try to keep the all-news format alive. This is different from when CBS axed other former Group W all-newsers WMAQ/Chicago (to advance Viacom's all-sports WSCR, who lost its' transmitting facility in a divestiture to approve the Viacom-CBS merger) and KFWB/LA (pure ownership cap hell; KFWB was placed in a trust and forced to be non-competitive).

They aren't in a position yet to divert all the attention to WCBS and wither WINS on the vine. Both newsers still play off and complement (and compete against) each other.

Not to keep driving this home ad nauseum, but WINS plays well in the inner cities, while WCBS is a more suburban, affluent station. Putting either station on FM also upsets that balance significantly. If CBS is forced to simulcast on FM their newsers, they will need to be very careful how they do it.

And again, if any spoken word CBS station goes to FM, WFAN will be first on 102.7. It's a matter of when they do.

 

[TimeIsTight]

. If you are a commuter living at the Jersey Shore, the AM's are a better choice.

Show me WEMP in Philly or WWFS in Atlantic City, not a shot!

Don't forget, that the major New York FM's all cover the New York Statistical Metropolitan Area completely. WCBS-FM, and Z-100 don't have the best signals in southern Somerset County, but they can still be heard, past that point, to the south, you are in Mercer County and out of the New York Ratings Market.

Ad agencies buying the New York Market don't really care if a station has a few listeners in Atlantic City or Philly. They specifically buy local stations in those markets if they want to reach those consumers.

Personally, I don't think the NY AM all newsers will be that threatened by what Merlin is doing, possibly other than more comprehensive traffic reports. From what we've heard so far, the female leaning features Merlin is offering probably won't appeal that much to the traditional All News audience. Merlin is really looking to get the younger women who are now in the cumes of Lite-FM, Fresh, KTU, PLJ and Z-100 to periodically slide down the dial to catch traffic, entertainment news, household tips etc on 101.9 News.

Given the fact that many listeners, especially younger listeners, only listen to FM, at some point the demos are going to get so top-heavy on AM that it will no longer be competitive with FM and CBS will have to move its all news format to FM, but that could be many years away.

It would be interesting to get a weekly cume for all the NYC AM stations, along with cume for each standard demo group, and compare that with similar statistics for all FM stations.

Roughly speaking, each of the top three FMs, all owned by Clear Channel, have a weekly cume of about 5-million, and WCBS-AM and WINS each have a cume of about half that number. Then you have WFAN with 1.6-million, WABC with 1.1-million, and WOR with 857,000. Compared to FM, you probably won't find all that many younger women listening to AM, especially to WFAN, WABC, and WOR, but you sure will find them listening to the three top Clear Channel stations, PLJ, and Fresh. That's the target group that Merlin is really shooting for, not the CBS-owned AM all newsers. For that reason I wouldn't expect CBS to sacrifice the potential of one of its FM music stations to simulcast traditional All News on FM, at least not soon.