Should I by HD?

[dxer720]

I live in a very small Wisconsin twon. I'm roughly 50 miles from Milwaukee, 35 from Rockford, IL & 60 from Madison. I get the analog station from these cities (& the nearby smaller ones as well) very reliably on my $10 Sony clock radio & in the car. I also get excellent reception of the big three Chicago AMs (670, 720 780). I'm lookng at several home HD radios. All I'm asking, si...Should I even bother?

Any help, either way, would be appreciated.

 

[fybush]

Before the rabid anti's or the rabid pro's jump in and begin their usual attacks on each other...here's my take.

The biggest problem you're likely to have with good FM HD reception would be adjacent-channel interference - sidebands from 94.5 Milwaukee stepping on HD from 94.7 Chicago, for instance, or vice versa. A good, directional outdoor FM antenna on a rotor (think an APS-13, for instance) will be your best friend in this circumstance. You're probably a little far from Milwaukee or Madison to get much FM HD with an indoor antenna. I'm not sure who's running HD yet in Rockford.

For AM, the loop antenna included with the HDT-1X or the other good home radios may or may not be enough to get the stronger signals (the big three Chicago AMs, 620 from Milwaukee) where you are. I wouldn't expect great results on AM at your distance.

Chris Tarr, the chief engineer of the Entercom Madison and Milwaukee stations, has a lot of experience with HD reception in your area. He'd be a wealth of information if you're interested in some hard data on where the signals do and don't reach.

Good luck! Let us know how it goes.

 

[clouseau]

Before the rabid anti's or the rabid pro's jump in and begin their usual attacks on each other...here's my take.

The biggest problem you're likely to have with good FM HD reception would be adjacent-channel interference - sidebands from 94.5 Milwaukee stepping on HD from 94.7 Chicago, for instance, or vice versa. A good, directional outdoor FM antenna on a rotor (think an APS-13, for instance) will be your best friend in this circumstance. You're probably a little far from Milwaukee or Madison to get much FM HD with an indoor antenna. I'm not sure who's running HD yet in Rockford.

For AM, the loop antenna included with the HDT-1X or the other good home radios may or may not be enough to get the stronger signals (the big three Chicago AMs, 620 from Milwaukee) where you are. I wouldn't expect great results on AM at your distance.

Chris Tarr, the chief engineer of the Entercom Madison and Milwaukee stations, has a lot of experience with HD reception in your area. He'd be a wealth of information if you're interested in some hard data on where the signals do and don't reach.

Good luck! Let us know how it goes.

Well put. I'll jump in and say as an average listener should you? Probably not. Rockford will probably work, but you're pushing the edge. Chicago and Milwaukee. You'll need a good home antenna. However with a handle like DXer 720, you're probably going to get usable results from all 3. Especially if you're into playing around a little bit to get longer reception distances. I get almost all the HD signals regualarly with just the single wire tossed off the back of the shelf. But you a little bit furthur away than me.

Good luck in whatever you decide.

Clouseau

 

[pqgeorge]

Before the rabid anti's or the rabid pro's jump in and begin their usual attacks on each other...here's my take.

The biggest problem you're likely to have with good FM HD reception would be adjacent-channel interference - sidebands from 94.5 Milwaukee stepping on HD from 94.7 Chicago, for instance, or vice versa. A good, directional outdoor FM antenna on a rotor (think an APS-13, for instance) will be your best friend in this circumstance. You're probably a little far from Milwaukee or Madison to get much FM HD with an indoor antenna. I'm not sure who's running HD yet in Rockford.

For AM, the loop antenna included with the HDT-1X or the other good home radios may or may not be enough to get the stronger signals (the big three Chicago AMs, 620 from Milwaukee) where you are. I wouldn't expect great results on AM at your distance.

an Chris Tarr, the chief engineer of the Entercom Madison and Milwaukee stations, has a lot of experience with HD reception in your area. He'd be a wealth of information if you're interested in some hard data on where the signals do and don't reach.

Good luck! Let us know how it goes.

Well put. I'll jump in and say as an average listener should you? Probably not. Rockford will probably work, but you're pushing the edge. Chicago and Milwaukee. You'll need a good home antenna. However with a handle like DXer 720, you're probably going to get usable results from all 3. Especially if you're into playing around a little bit to get longer reception distances. I get almost all the HD signals regualarly with just the single wire tossed off the back of the shelf. But you a little bit furthur away than me.

Good luck in whatever you decide.

Clouseau

If you're willing to wait a little while longer, I'd say..... hold off for a bit until the medium has some "ears" (a usable receive section that's not numb) . The chipsets should be better "in the future". But if you need it "like yesterday", do it right the first time. If you have an "antenna-friendly" landlord, or own your own domicile, get an outdoor antenna. That little piece of coat-hanger won't cut it. I personally have a Boston Acoustics Receptor (no longer being produced). The receiver is connected to an 18 db. FM antenna amplifier which is connected to a Channel Master Stereo Probe-9 via 50" of RG-6 coax. I live about 25 miles South of Boston, MA (in Whitman, MA). For the most part, I receive all of the Boston and Providence FM's with HD. Sometimes I get the Worcester area stations with HD (WSRS, WAAF et.al.). Frankly, other than WROR's "Nothin 'But The 70's" HD2, there's really no incentive, at this juncture, to go out and get an HD radio. There's nothing really great to listen to on HD, HD2 and HD3. Admittedly, I had been waiting for WODS to fire up their "Pre-Beatles Oldies" format on HD2 for quite some time. (I doubt it will ever fly, if ever.). AM, well.... IBOC on AM is a noisemaker and simply does not work unless you are within the near field distance to the transmitter . The audio quality on AM, and FM for that matter is nothing to write home about. SO, that's my take on IBOC. Good luck in the HD search.

 

[Play Freebird]

If you just want an HD receiver to experiment with, without spending lots of money -- and don't mind the aesthetics of a car radio sans dashboard -- I suggest the JVC KD-HDR1, which now sells at below $125:

http://www.gosale.com/4934690/jvc-kd-hdr1-cd-player?gclid=CImostKEl5ECFQMRlwodqmmEOg

Of course, you'll need to provide speakers and a 12 volt DC supply, but I think you'll be pleased with the FM RF performance using an external antenna. It has four 20 W amplified outputs as well as line-level outputs, equalizer, and a nice CD/MP3 player. The metal case also reduces radiated microprocessor noise, which is one of the reasons the BA Receptor and some other table radios have trouble decoding digital signals. It's probably the best "bang for the buck" out there right now; I have one in my truck and wouldn't hesitate to say that its analog FM performance clearly exceeds that of the average car radio. However, the AM section has some front-end overload issues.

If you don't like the appearance of a naked chassis, spend a hour or two in the wood shop and build a nice box.

Don't bother with the $199 Radio Shack table radio; this review should tell you what to expect from that:

http://www.popularwireless.com/blog...e-accurian-hd-tabletop-radio-from-radioshack/

 

[w9wi]

I live in a very small Wisconsin twon. I'm roughly 50 miles from Milwaukee, 35 from Rockford, IL & 60 from Madison. I get the analog station from these cities (& the nearby smaller ones as well) very reliably on my $10 Sony clock radio & in the car. I also get excellent reception of the big three Chicago AMs (670, 720 780). I'm lookng at several home HD radios. All I'm asking, si...Should I even bother?

Any help, either way, would be appreciated.

Why are you interested in HD?

I mean, are you looking for the improved audio quality, or are you more interested in hearing the subchannels?

Personally, I don't think the audio improvement on FM is dramatic enough to justify the cost.

I'm guessing you're in (or near) Walworth County? Presuming so, I'm thinking you stand a fair chance of getting the big Chicago AMs you mention in HD. If you spend a lot of time listening to those stations the quality improvement may be worthwhile.

On FM, it's the subchannels that make HD worthwhile. If you were *in* Madison or Milwaukee, I'd say "do it". The subchannel collections in those cities are pretty decent. (unlike here in Nashville where NPR's HD2 is the only one worth listening to) You're probably too far for reliable HD FM reception from either of those cities though, especially without an outdoor antenna. Rockford is a possibility but I'm not familiar with the HD2 dial there.

 

[Mike Walker]

I DO think a well engineered HD FM station is dramatically better sounding than analog fm stereo. But radio is about programming, not technology. I'm an HD fan, an audiophile, and studio owner, and honestly I'd STILL rather hear a song I love on an analog AM station, than an audiophile approved "high resolution" recording of something I just don't care for. It's about THE PROGRAMMING!

There are, as I see it, three reasons for going HD.

1)-By far the first is most important (imho). Is there something on an HD multicast channel that is of value to you that you can't get with an analog radio? If the answer is yes (it is in my area...classical music, country oldies, a REALLY wide variety of rock programming, and stand-up comedy are among my choices not available elsewhere), then in my experience you don't have any obstacles to reception at your house which can't be overcome. You'll need a good antenna, preferably a passive one, up as high as you can get it. Wire "T" antennas probably will disappoint at your distance, but I've found an indoor antenna that works rather well. I'm actually further from my closest HD stations than you are, and I got pretty damn good reception with the Magnum Dynalab SR-100 (30 bucks from Audio Advisor). It brought me much listening pleasure until I was able to get a new roof antenna/rotor...which is, of course a better solution.

2)-You are bothered by multipath distortion, and hiss on analog FM stereo. Contrary to what many may tell you, I believe you'll find some stations that just won't yield a clean analog stereo signal, but will decode in pristine digital with HD. I sure do! Not to oversell. I mean you likely will find some stations that you can get in analog, but not digital, but you also are almost certain to find some that sound great in digital, but not analog.

3)-You're a radio hobbyist and want to receive a new "mode". This (FM HD) is a relatively easy one!


The above is a result of my experiences with FM HD. Now AM HD has been, at my location, an ENORMOUS disappointment! I can "snatch" EVERY FM HD station in Charlotte at 80 miles, Greensboro at 60 miles, Hickory at 40 miles, plus a few from Greenville, Spartanburgh, and Asheville/Black Mountain at 100 miles, but not a single freakin' AM HD station, even with a 200' outdoor longwire! It just ain't happening!

So, weigh the plusses and minuses. Only you can decide which are most important to you!

 

[dxer720]

Thanx everyone!

I was interested in the better quality of the AM (as I listen to WGN & WTMJ) & the subchannels of the FM HDs.

From what all of you have said, I am going to hold off. Where I am, outdoor antennas are out of the question, so I gather that FM HD would probably not work at my distance. I think I'll hold off the the new radio for now. I'm also very happy with the current performance of my analog AM/FM radios. Like one poster said, "...It's the PROGRAMMING..." I'll also stick with my XM.

Thanks again.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

I was interested in the better quality of the AM (as I listen to WGN & WTMJ) & the subchannels of the FM HDs.

Interesting phenomenon on HD AM. I have a music format near me on AM - Radio Disney. I am familiar with some of the songs, having heard them when the local outlet was in full fidelity C-Quam. One of them has a high frequency "ding" several places in the song. In HD, the "ding" was back - but severely shifted in frequency (pitch). It also sounded really sinusoidal - no harmonics. That tells me right there that some of HD radio's extended frequency response is extrapolated and not real. So it may sound great to some people, but not if they are really familiar with the song from CDs or FM.

As far as first time purchasing - I'd go with a cheaper receiver and a more expensive outdoor antenna if I had a limited budget. HD-1 will NOT sound any better on those trendy table radios, the difference will be masked by the tiny 3 1/2 inch speakers. On a component quality tuner like a Sangean HDT-1x, the degree of digital improvement will be noticable if the rest of the audio system is decent. It can be a dramatic improvement - but a critical ear can detect compression artifacts - especially if there are multicasts.

HD-2 can be nice if there happens to be a format you like, but it is a compressed audio format at best.

 

[RadioFixerCLE]

Don't bother with the $199 Radio Shack table radio; this review should tell you what to expect from that:
http://www.popularwireless.com/blog...e-accurian-hd-tabletop-radio-from-radioshack/

If you're interested in tuner quality over sound quality, I'd recommend the Radiosophy HD-100. It's a plain jane black box affair but its tuner isn't too shabby, compared to most of the significantly higher-priced junkers out there. It's got an earphone output so you can always hook it into the line-in of an external hifi amp. If you want to spend quite a bit more money, get Sony's HD radio. That one performs quite well also.

Seconded on the Accurian. One of my friends has an Accurian sitting on top of his fridge and his experience was less than great, shall we say. He lives in the 'burbs and the radio would literally only decode the HD signal if the wind was blowing the right way -- he couldn't stand the back and forth A/D/A/D on it, so he ended up yanking the plug outta the wall.

Obviously I couldn't tell you how well either the Sony or the Radiosophy would work in your area. While they're better than other units on sale, they're still finicky when it comes to antenna placement and signal strength.

 

[LinoNYC]

I was interested in the better quality of the AM (as I listen to WGN & WTMJ) & the subchannels of the FM HDs.

Interesting phenomenon on HD AM. I have a music format near me on AM - Radio Disney. I am familiar with some of the songs, having heard them when the local outlet was in full fidelity C-Quam. One of them has a high frequency "ding" several places in the song. In HD, the "ding" was back - but severely shifted in frequency (pitch). It also sounded really sinusoidal - no harmonics. That tells me right there that some of HD radio's extended frequency response is extrapolated and not real. So it may sound great to some people, but not if they are really familiar with the song from CDs or FM.

As far as first time purchasing - I'd go with a cheaper receiver and a more expensive outdoor antenna if I had a limited budget. HD-1 will NOT sound any better on those trendy table radios, the difference will be masked by the tiny 3 1/2 inch speakers. On a component quality tuner like a Sangean HDT-1x, the degree of digital improvement will be noticable if the rest of the audio system is decent. It can be a dramatic improvement - but a critical ear can detect compression artifacts - especially if there are multicasts.

HD-2 can be nice if there happens to be a format you like, but it is a compressed audio format at best.

AM HD is all replication from approx 4.7 khz to it's limit of 15khz. I don't like it either but the lack of a noise floor and distortion so common in AM is enough to convince most listeners that AM is is vastly improved by this system.

As for FM, iboc's elimination of multipath and background noise more than compensates for any vestigial artifacts.

Lino

 

[Mike Walker]

It's important to remember that there are no musical fundamentals above about 3khz. What's above that is the harmonically related overtone structure, which allows us to distinguish, for example, a clarinet from a trumpet playing the same note. It would be impossible to "replicate" notes. Replicating the overtone structure of notes is different. That can be done well (given sufficient bandwidth). But 32kbps is a pretty damn low bitrate for fullrange audio in stereo!

 

[rbrucecarter5]

As for FM, iboc's elimination of multipath and background noise more than compensates for any vestigial artifacts.

Uh - what multipath and background noise? No noise to speak of yet - but then stations have asked for a 10 dB increase in the noise floor - oops I mean the sidebands. Multipath? I live where it is flat and there aren't a lot of tall buildings. Analog FM sounds great! And you don't need iboc to eliminate multipath. All you need is diversity antennas.

About the only thing iboc has going for it is HD-2. And you can get all of those formats over satellite or streaming. Iboc is going to be a tough sale to consumers.