Should other stations...

[dimp]

...be bashing other stations to potential clients?!?!?!?!? I do the marketing for a local store in the area and I had a radio guy come in and try to sell me radio...when I told him that we were happy with what we were doing and the results we were seeing he asked how much of a result we could possibly be seeing when no one listens to that station. Now I know that everyone has a bottom line to make but if you wanted me to buy your station would you say something stupid like that about a station I was already using?

 

[Sandman_316]

I've been hearing more and more of this tactic being used from a few businesses I've spoken with, including one person who was interviewing for...well, we'll leave the company's name out of it. The rep comes in, pretty much trashes the competition because the potential client isn't buying and they walk out the same way they walk in...not having the potential client as a paying client.

Obviously, trashing other stations shouldn't be the route to go. I mean, you want to get the sale and try to get customers to buy with your station as opposed to the competition But by bashing your competition, it seems to me that you look a little too desperate. Maybe even scared of your opposition.

There are other ways to get a sale than trash talk. Try using positives about your station rather than negatives about others. It's obvious that if you need to slam the competition in order to get the sale, then you must not have a product worth buying.

Of course, that's one radio guy's opinion.

 

[shilton]

I've never really done radio sales (aside from a bit of dabbling here and there with selected clients that I knew already), but I have been managing a successful company for several years and I learned a long time ago, the way you build customer loyalty and command the respect of your clients is by being the best you can be at what you do and treating the customer as you'd like them to treat you and above all...IGNORE YOUR COMPETITION. I will tell you that in my "real gig" it does not make one lick of difference to me what the ratings are, I will buy what works for me from people I respect and can get along with. Come at me bashing the guy I am buying from and expect me to throw my money your way and the only thing you will buy yourself is a one way ticket out the door with no sale.

As jocks, we all talk smack from time to time on this forum and we even pick a bit back and forth but I think on the whole we talk decently about each other in the public eye and even have a level of respect and admiration for even the persons we may not necessarily agree with. Too bad the sales folk can't seem to think the same way.

 

[Sandman_316]

I know that this thread is about the sales staff, but from those I spoken too, it's not just the sales staff who use this tactic. Some are also in management.

I agree wholeheartedly with you, Steve. Well said.

 

[ameyer]

I think it is a bunch of hogwash...like Steve said if you use what works for you then use what works for you. I am not much of a sales person either but the few people I have on the air have mentioned the same thing to me. One of these companies that seems to be doing it a lot is well I'm sure we all know who. I have heard trash talk about us, Joe, 3WZ, and B94.5 come from the clients who have talked to one certain station over all. What is really nice was that they had nerve to say that none of these stations will help them see results. Now I know we are not high in the ratings, but I'm sure Steve can attest to this a little from when he worked with us, we reach an audience outside the State College metro and that also helps drive business, and I know that we have always had people see results from our campaigns...I'm sure that 3WZ and B94.5 do what they do and get results as well, and Joe is the little station that nobody thought could and they are doing great. So I ask this why would anyone want to go with a guy who obviously knows nothing about the other stations in the market, when I'm sure we can all agree, we all are willing to share a piece of the pie, but only if you play fair.

 

[noiz502]

The problem with local sales is that many companies don’t take the time to train new salespeople. When I first started in media sales, several established salespeople took me under their wings and showed me the ropes. I spent about six months shadowing other sales reps and making calls with my manager before I was completely on my own. Today, they hire a handful of new recruits, pay them nothing, and send them out on the street with station profiles and the latest package hoping that one of them makes it. If they don’t, oh well they’ll be hiring again next month.

These kids (I hate to use that term because I was one once) don’t know any better, so don’t take it out on them. They’re told to leave by 10 and not to return until 4. They don’t know the history, they don’t know sales, and they don’t know how radio works. They hear objections on every call but have never been taught how to overcome objections. They slam the competition because that’s what they hear in their sales meetings. When they finally do make a sale, they take whatever money is available without knowing how to create a successful campaign with the given budget. The salesperson eventually doesn’t make it and takes a job in retail. The next rookie sales rep hears “I tried radio and it doesn’t work”. The client goes back to spending his money in the CDT and the cycle repeats itself.

The few of us who make more than 2 years become veterans and if we’re lucky the owners don’t sell or make format changes that ruin the relationships we’ve worked hard to build. I guess that’s why so few established sales reps take little or no time to teach new salespeople – you never know what’s around the corner so you’ve got to make as much money as you can right now.

Salespeople are just like anything else, you get what you pay for. If you want good sales people, take your time hiring a new rep (I had three interviews before I was hired the first time) and invest the time and money to train them and keep them around. If you don’t want to train new sales people, then spend the money to get an experienced media sales person.

 

[shilton]

I think it is a bunch of hogwash...like Steve said if you use what works for you then use what works for you. I am not much of a sales person either but the few people I have on the air have mentioned the same thing to me. One of these companies that seems to be doing it a lot is well I'm sure we all know who. I have heard trash talk about us, Joe, 3WZ, and B94.5 come from the clients who have talked to one certain station over all. What is really nice was that they had nerve to say that none of these stations will help them see results. Now I know we are not high in the ratings, but I'm sure Steve can attest to this a little from when he worked with us, we reach an audience outside the State College metro and that also helps drive business, and I know that we have always had people see results from our campaigns...I'm sure that 3WZ and B94.5 do what they do and get results as well, and Joe is the little station that nobody thought could and they are doing great. So I ask this why would anyone want to go with a guy who obviously knows nothing about the other stations in the market, when I'm sure we can all agree, we all are willing to share a piece of the pie, but only if you play fair.

I have to wonder if a lot of these happy clients we "little guys" see doesn't have a lot to do with the fact that it seems we are stilling to take the time to work with the client to give them the spot they want and yes on occasion, we even do the fun creative production instead of the dry, boring, stale dry straight read. I can tell you I have seen AJ spend hours putting together a sixty second spot. I have done the same myself on occasion. Granted, I don't think we are winning awards for our production either but we try to show the clients their money's worth and I think that says a lot in the end.
I have seen salespeople come into my business relatively unannounced with a spec they already tossed together to sell me and the first thing I realize is they don't even know the first thing about what we do. How much more effective to talk to me, have me tell them about my business and its goals and then ask me "how can we help you...what is your message" instead of trying to jam your preconceived notion of what my message should be down my throat.

I will agree that a lot of it has to do with a lack of training which is a shame but to me there is also a degree that amounts to nothing more than a pure lack of common sense. As I said once and will say forever...treat people like you'd want them to treat you and success will follow.

 

[jackandcoke]

All advertising is good. The worst that can happen is that someone will hear or see something good about the advertiser's business. Unlike word-of-mouth, advertising allows the advertiser to control the message--so it's always positive.

All media work. All radio stations work. They work in different ways and to different levels of efficiency and effectiveness, but they all work.

They all deliver the advertiser's chosen message to potential consumers. The best outcome is that the potential consumer responds to that message and becomes a customer. The worst that can happen is that someone will hear or see something good about the advertiser's business.

How much would you like to buy?

 

[shilton]

All advertising is good. The worst that can happen is that someone will hear or see something good about the advertiser's business. Unlike word-of-mouth, advertising allows the advertiser to control the message--so it's always positive.

All media work. All radio stations work. They work in different ways and to different levels of efficiency and effectiveness, but they all work.

They all deliver the advertiser's chosen message to potential consumers. The best outcome is that the potential consumer responds to that message and becomes a customer. The worst that can happen is that someone will hear or see something good about the advertiser's business.

How much would you like to buy?

Sorry Jack...but I don't totally agree with you on that. Not all advertising works (at least not in a positive way). Let's take for example the Snicker's Commercial that aired last year during the Super Bowl where 2 guys accidentally kissed trying to devour a snickers bar. That spot was so negatively perceived that Snickers never ran it again despite having sequel commercials ready to roll. Their sales also took a hit from the initial fallout to the point where they posted an apology on their website to anyone who had been offended or deemed the spot in poor taste.

Now don't get me wrong here, I am sure there was a segment of society who thought the spot was funny and it didn't put them out of business, but I am sure its something they'd like to forget. Same deal with "new coke" back in the 80's. Good marketing strategy...bad idea.

Also have to say that all media does not work. Let's be honest. If you are placing ads on a station wtih virtually no listenership you probably won't see any success no matter how much money you throw at it.

 

[ameyer]

I'm going to have agree with Jack on this one all advertising is good advertising just depends on how you use it

 

[Spackler1]

All advertising is good. The worst that can happen is that someone will hear or see something good about the advertiser's business. Unlike word-of-mouth, advertising allows the advertiser to control the message--so it's always positive.

All media work. All radio stations work. They work in different ways and to different levels of efficiency and effectiveness, but they all work.

They all deliver the advertiser's chosen message to potential consumers. The best outcome is that the potential consumer responds to that message and becomes a customer. The worst that can happen is that someone will hear or see something good about the advertiser's business.

How much would you like to buy?

Sorry Jack...but I don't totally agree with you on that. Not all advertising works (at least not in a positive way). Let's take for example the Snicker's Commercial that aired last year during the Super Bowl where 2 guys accidentally kissed trying to devour a snickers bar. That spot was so negatively perceived that Snickers never ran it again despite having sequel commercials ready to roll. Their sales also took a hit from the initial fallout to the point where they posted an apology on their website to anyone who had been offended or deemed the spot in poor taste.

Now don't get me wrong here, I am sure there was a segment of society who thought the spot was funny and it didn't put them out of business, but I am sure its something they'd like to forget. Same deal with "new coke" back in the 80's. Good marketing strategy...bad idea.

Also have to say that all media does not work. Let's be honest. If you are placing ads on a station wtih virtually no listenership you probably won't see any success no matter how much money you throw at it.

Don't confuse the medium with the message. The advertising worked. Often it's the message that is the problem. Advertising doesn't work automatically. You have to have the right message, a proper schedule, and the right media for who you are targeting.

And, you still remember that Snicker's ad, don't you?

 

[ameyer]

All advertising is good. The worst that can happen is that someone will hear or see something good about the advertiser's business. Unlike word-of-mouth, advertising allows the advertiser to control the message--so it's always positive.

All media work. All radio stations work. They work in different ways and to different levels of efficiency and effectiveness, but they all work.

They all deliver the advertiser's chosen message to potential consumers. The best outcome is that the potential consumer responds to that message and becomes a customer. The worst that can happen is that someone will hear or see something good about the advertiser's business.


How much would you like to buy?

Sorry Jack...but I don't totally agree with you on that. Not all advertising works (at least not in a positive way). Let's take for example the Snicker's Commercial that aired last year during the Super Bowl where 2 guys accidentally kissed trying to devour a snickers bar. That spot was so negatively perceived that Snickers never ran it again despite having sequel commercials ready to roll. Their sales also took a hit from the initial fallout to the point where they posted an apology on their website to anyone who had been offended or deemed the spot in poor taste.

Now don't get me wrong here, I am sure there was a segment of society who thought the spot was funny and it didn't put them out of business, but I am sure its something they'd like to forget. Same deal with "new coke" back in the 80's. Good marketing strategy...bad idea.

Also have to say that all media does not work. Let's be honest. If you are placing ads on a station wtih virtually no listenership you probably won't see any success no matter how much money you throw at it.

Steve you may want to research your facts a little here, the snickers ad played during the Superbowl yes, but the apology was posted the following afternoon, not because of declining sales but because of the fear of the fallout from the gay community. Remember we live in a society nowadays where it better to just sue someone because you were offended by it rather than just suck it up and move on.

Though at this point in time I think we are far away from the posters original question. Is it a good sales tactic if you will to bash a station that someone is currently or has used in the past. I dabble a little here and there in sales and I will be the first to admit that I tell people to explore using other outlets as well, whether it be another radio station, TV, or print. Compliment your advertising by using G101 and B94.5, 2 different audiences but yet both with a chunk of the demo a client is looking for. Same deal for anyone who is looking to use Froggy couple it with the Bus...most of that Demo is Male, so if you have a say Truck accessory store you are hitting two different sides of the same demo. Like Spackler said it is not the Medium if you do the research and do it right you can sell anything with the mediums, the message has to be something that is going to grab someones attention...if you are listening to the radio and you hear the same boring read back to back to back, and then this lively commercial comes on...I guarantee that you will remember that message before you even remember the other 3 because it drew your attention.

Now I have gotten off the topic a little, but what I am trying to say is that if you go in and bash another station or media for that matter you are bound to make yourself look like an idiot and actually hand business to other guy.

 

[AvgListener]

Wow.. you guys hit the nail right on the head. I've been in radio sales since 98 and the one good thing that I've learn about radio sales... I'm glad I got out of radio sales!! I mean who wants to go in a 8am dor daily Ra Ra Meeting with a sales manager the thinks he's Ricky Roma(if you get that either you not in sales or not in sales long enough) Yell the ABC's of Selling our station is great the station down the road Sucks. From there you go pumped to your cube make pointless cold calls until 10am then go out and try to makes with business who will never give you the time or day because your his new rep and he/she asks you what happen to me last rep. From there the downward spiral begins. I would put cash money down this time next year there will be a crop of reps in there power suits ready to meet an bash the other station this time next year Oh and the pay suck the big one in radio sales yeah you a draw but management will Always and I mean ALWAYS will try to dick you out of your commission.

 

[shilton]

All advertising is good. The worst that can happen is that someone will hear or see something good about the advertiser's business. Unlike word-of-mouth, advertising allows the advertiser to control the message--so it's always positive.

All media work. All radio stations work. They work in different ways and to different levels of efficiency and effectiveness, but they all work.

They all deliver the advertiser's chosen message to potential consumers. The best outcome is that the potential consumer responds to that message and becomes a customer. The worst that can happen is that someone will hear or see something good about the advertiser's business.


How much would you like to buy?

Sorry Jack...but I don't totally agree with you on that. Not all advertising works (at least not in a positive way). Let's take for example the Snicker's Commercial that aired last year during the Super Bowl where 2 guys accidentally kissed trying to devour a snickers bar. That spot was so negatively perceived that Snickers never ran it again despite having sequel commercials ready to roll. Their sales also took a hit from the initial fallout to the point where they posted an apology on their website to anyone who had been offended or deemed the spot in poor taste.

Now don't get me wrong here, I am sure there was a segment of society who thought the spot was funny and it didn't put them out of business, but I am sure its something they'd like to forget. Same deal with "new coke" back in the 80's. Good marketing strategy...bad idea.

Also have to say that all media does not work. Let's be honest. If you are placing ads on a station wtih virtually no listenership you probably won't see any success no matter how much money you throw at it.

Steve you may want to research your facts a little here, the snickers ad played during the Superbowl yes, but the apology was posted the following afternoon, not because of declining sales but because of the fear of the fallout from the gay community. Remember we live in a society nowadays where it better to just sue someone because you were offended by it rather than just suck it up and move on.

Though at this point in time I think we are far away from the posters original question. Is it a good sales tactic if you will to bash a station that someone is currently or has used in the past. I dabble a little here and there in sales and I will be the first to admit that I tell people to explore using other outlets as well, whether it be another radio station, TV, or print. Compliment your advertising by using G101 and B94.5, 2 different audiences but yet both with a chunk of the demo a client is looking for. Same deal for anyone who is looking to use Froggy couple it with the Bus...most of that Demo is Male, so if you have a say Truck accessory store you are hitting two different sides of the same demo. Like Spackler said it is not the Medium if you do the research and do it right you can sell anything with the mediums, the message has to be something that is going to grab someones attention...if you are listening to the radio and you hear the same boring read back to back to back, and then this lively commercial comes on...I guarantee that you will remember that message before you even remember the other 3 because it drew your attention.

Now I have gotten off the topic a little, but what I am trying to say is that if you go in and bash another station or media for that matter you are bound to make yourself look like an idiot and actually hand business to other guy.

AJ...got my facts. Yes Snickers pulled the ad the next day due to the immediate fallout from the anti-gay segment, but their sales did indeed show a slump for some time after that. Research their stocks and you will probably still find the articles.

As for the rest...you are right. A smart advertiser should never put all his/her eggs into 1 basket. Buy a few stations and kick the tires around. (same is true for those who buy the paper....man cannot live on newspaper print alone). Buy some radio too....oooh...take that CDT!

 

[Sandman_316]

Not sure if this is due to the proverbial "trash talk" that we're discussing here, nor would I be suprised if it was...but wasn't a certain group of stations around here supposed to be sponsoring Thon 2008?

Looks like Joe FM picked up the ball and is running with it. Good for them!

 

[ameyer]

Sandman, our intern is part of the Thon committee and they decided they were running with Joe a while ago, the same as last year...

 

[AvgListener]

Sandman you should have know that LOL

 

[Sandman_316]

Actually, according to Joe's former Promotion Director back when THON was planning for the 2008 campaign, their first choice was Forever. Then something happened to make them fall out of favor with the THON organization. Joe was informed about a sponsorship opportunity about two weeks ago.

At least, that's what I've heard. Not doubting you, ameyer...just going by my sources.

 

[listner1]

I agree with AJ & Steve. I always tell myself that if I ever become a radio "Marketing Specialist" I'd be insulting a client’s intelligence if I asked them to buy just one station or medium. Just think what it would be like if every rep encouraged their clients to also buy from the guy across town for maximum impact! If the stations around here could cut the petty crap with each other (99% of which is caused or encouraged by the owners) and present a semi-united front, maybe we could get the perceived value of radio back up a little. Everyone would benefit. I know, a nice thought but it will never happen. Believe it or not, there are still some markets where radio is still respected by the audience and clients.

I understand the Thon organizers have been much disorganized!

 

[Snafu]

The mentality and tactic has been alive and well in major markets for years. It has always turned me off and I don't understand why clients or potential clients don't throw the sales droid out the door by their tie the minute they start down that road. Shame its filtering down to smaller markets like this, but not a bit surprising.