I think the overall sound of the station is great as far as imaging goes. I'd like to think it doesn't perform as well as it could because of signal... does anyone else think 953 would do better as Active Rock since Dayton now lacks one since The X is Alternative competing with Click?
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Should The Eagle rock harder?
- Thread starter lovejamminoldies
- Start date
Furthermore, prove to me there are sufficient Active Rock hits to support a format these days.
Doesn't seem to be that way today...at least for now. (I mean, if Clear Channel doesn't seem
to think it's viable...)
First you all said Eagle was buried and should go urban...but not one of you ever looked at where the station's signal goes and realized, it touches few urban zips. (I'm not divulging anything here you wouldn't know if you looked on a real coverage map.)
Now, it's rocking harder than ever...but doing it in a unique way with a different approach. But, according to some of you, Eagle needs to be "more current". The published 12 plus numbers have doubled and in demo (where it really counts) more than that. Could it maybe be that perhaps we saw something you might have missed?
Lastly, though Jammin' will disagree, there is no format that has or ever will be invented that can take a station with a tower over 20 miles out of town with a Class A signal that can be "dominant" inside a nearby city, all other competitive aspects being equal. The only one around here that even came close to that was the old WDJX (103.9), that, as a Top 40 station (the term CHR had not been invented yet) and with a tower in Xenia, captured between a low to mid 6 share 12 plus of the Dayton Market between 1979 and 1981. (Source: David Eduardo's "American Radio History" website. As an area radio historian, thank you, David for this info!)
BUT...there was no other top 40 station in Dayton at that time (WTUE had abandoned it by then), and it is true younger people will put up a less than perfect signal if the station is giving them something unique they can't get elsewhere.
These are solely my opinions, and, despite what some posters say on this board, I do not, nor have I ever run the station. Am I passionate for what it's doing? Sure. I've only worked with this frequency for over 15 years dating back to 1980. I was in the Dayton market from 1976 to 1990 and came back in 2004. So, I think I have some experience with it. It's been playing classic rock music, of one sort or another, since 2002. It's all in the "how" not so much, the "what", IMHO.
Doesn't seem to be that way today...at least for now. (I mean, if Clear Channel doesn't seem
to think it's viable...)
First you all said Eagle was buried and should go urban...but not one of you ever looked at where the station's signal goes and realized, it touches few urban zips. (I'm not divulging anything here you wouldn't know if you looked on a real coverage map.)
Now, it's rocking harder than ever...but doing it in a unique way with a different approach. But, according to some of you, Eagle needs to be "more current". The published 12 plus numbers have doubled and in demo (where it really counts) more than that. Could it maybe be that perhaps we saw something you might have missed?
Lastly, though Jammin' will disagree, there is no format that has or ever will be invented that can take a station with a tower over 20 miles out of town with a Class A signal that can be "dominant" inside a nearby city, all other competitive aspects being equal. The only one around here that even came close to that was the old WDJX (103.9), that, as a Top 40 station (the term CHR had not been invented yet) and with a tower in Xenia, captured between a low to mid 6 share 12 plus of the Dayton Market between 1979 and 1981. (Source: David Eduardo's "American Radio History" website. As an area radio historian, thank you, David for this info!)
BUT...there was no other top 40 station in Dayton at that time (WTUE had abandoned it by then), and it is true younger people will put up a less than perfect signal if the station is giving them something unique they can't get elsewhere.
These are solely my opinions, and, despite what some posters say on this board, I do not, nor have I ever run the station. Am I passionate for what it's doing? Sure. I've only worked with this frequency for over 15 years dating back to 1980. I was in the Dayton market from 1976 to 1990 and came back in 2004. So, I think I have some experience with it. It's been playing classic rock music, of one sort or another, since 2002. It's all in the "how" not so much, the "what", IMHO.
Jason,
You're telling me that no matter what you put on that frequency, it will fail because of the strength? I disagree completely. I strongly believe if another CHR was put there, it would generate better ratings than The Eagle. It would get major publicity from WHIO and Dayton Daily News as well.
Nick is the PD of them all, but the music is not programmed from Dayton last time I checked.
You're telling me that no matter what you put on that frequency, it will fail because of the strength? I disagree completely. I strongly believe if another CHR was put there, it would generate better ratings than The Eagle. It would get major publicity from WHIO and Dayton Daily News as well.
Nick is the PD of them all, but the music is not programmed from Dayton last time I checked.
lovejamminoldies said:
Wrong on all accounts.
The music is programmed here...in Dayton. And who's your "source" on this? Because whoever it is, they don't know what they're talking about today. If they're not working here now and are not involved in the inner workings of the station, they know nothing. There are many former employees from this company who will make comments based on what may or may not have been true 5 or 10 years ago. But this having been said, let's go back to the real discussion here and more generic in terms:
Would CHR get better ratings? Maybe a point or so, (most of which would be teens in Greene County), but not enough to make a real dent. You see, the CHR market is being taken up by not just one, but two 50 kilowatt FM's (Hot 102-9 which covers the Urban side and Channel 99-9 (which covers largely, the mainstream side). And yes, you have to consider Hot in that battle because of their enormous teen and 18-34 shares). So an Eagle CHR would likely end up as the #3 teen and 18-34 choice, or maybe worse. Which is exactly what the station tried a long time ago in the 80's as DJ-95. It ultimately failed going up against a dominant Z-93 and U-92. That isn't going to be a money maker, Jammin.
I did not say "any" format on that frequency would fail. But, even you cannot deny the limitations the signal has. It simply does not have the potential being 20 to 25 miles out of the city (And being a Class A), to be a major player. WDJX pulled it off by being the only CHR in town with a tower in Xenia, not 8 miles outside Xenia as 95-3 is...and even DJX quickly changed format to A/C in 1984 or so when Z-93 came on the air, and then had to change again when Mix started becoming dominant (prompting a shift to oldies. And again as what would be a failed country insurgent when K-99.1 came on as country. (And you guys say Eagle changes formats a lot!) The 103.9 frequency, in my opinion, only became a viable possibility first, when Alan Gray moved the stick to Beavercreek and then, finally, when Clear Channel moved it to Dayton. Had another 50K CHR been on the air when WDJX did in 1979, 'DJX would probably not have had nearly the impact that it did, even as good as it really was.
My point is: that for an out of town Class A station with a limited signal to work, you have just a few choices:
1.) Talk to the people closest to the stick.
2.) Have a format "unique" enough that the target audience will seek it out. (And CHR is not unique enough) Or...
3.) Find a format that can gain enough market share as flanker to make you a little money and serve some other purpose for the station.
Being a younger guy, and being really into that music, I can appreciate your thoughts that there's an unfilled market hole there. But, there really isn't. And certainly not one a station like Eagle could fill. This is a business, Jammin...that "if you build it, they will come" is not necessarily true.
I agree totally with Jason here. CHR was tried on 95.3 back in 1990-93 when the frequency was known as "DJ95" from '90-June 1992, when they flipped to Power 95 and tried to compete with the then-dominant Z-93. From what I have been told, Power didn't even show up in the ratings. I believe at this point Z was doing 7s and 8s 12+. They did try a short-lived 80s experiment when the word came down that they were about to be sold. Power 95 left the airwaves on Monday, August 9, 1993. I have the last two hours on tape around here somewhere. It was a good breeding ground for talent that later appeared on WXEG and later WMMX, in the form of Jeff Stevens, Todd Hollst, Sloppy Joe Thomas, and Allen Rantz. Brian Savage briefly worked at Z-93, as well as Joe Momma, who was on Power 95 from September '92-January '93 when he left for Pittsburgh, PA. and a start-up Country station, The Rebel 104.7. After Power folded, they threw WBZI on the FM, and it was a miserable failure. The station was sold, and then it was oldies, simulcasting from 95.7's signal. It later flipped to a simulcast of 80s Oldies "The Point" in October 2000. Classic Rock 95.3 ZLR signed on on September 27, 2002(I have that launch archived on a CD). I believe Led Zeppelin "Long Time" was the first song, and second song was by Bad Company "Rock N Roll Fantasy" was the 2nd. Of course, The Eagle debuted in '06, and it's been The Eagle ever since, with different leans over time. A lot of formats have come and gone on 95.3.
I stand corrected. Thought it was programmed out of Louisville.
I'll acknowledge, 95.3 is the station I have on in my car and at work the vast majority of the time. For driving to/from work, I love hearing the music (mainly the Van Halen, early 80s rock, etc), but listening for 6-8 hours at work gets real monotonous. Honestly, and I checked this online, at least on one day, Van Halen was played 2x every hour (and to be clear, VH is my favorite band !!). I hate to say this, but the station advertises as not being WTUE and it's right -- they don't repeat artists this much and actually have more variety.Jason Roberts said:
Maybe you could "pass on" these comments...
hall said:I'll acknowledge, 95.3 is the station I have on in my car and at work the vast majority of the time. For driving to/from work, I love hearing the music (mainly the Van Halen, early 80s rock, etc), but listening for 6-8 hours at work gets real monotonous. Honestly, and I checked this online, at least on one day, Van Halen was played 2x every hour (and to be clear, VH is my favorite band !!). I hate to say this, but the station advertises as not being WTUE and it's right -- they don't repeat artists this much and actually have more variety.Jason Roberts said:
Maybe you could "pass on" these comments...
I'll certainly pass along your comments. One thing I would note, though is: core artists in gold based formats, where sufficient product is available often can be heard on these stations about every 45 minutes or so. Oldies stations, for instance, found little audience objection to playing Beatles songs once or twice an hour. Van Halen's been around a long time and there is plenty of product...
There's definitely "sufficient product" from many of these artists, but I'm not sure much of their library is being used. With VH, for instance, it's primarily from their first (2) albums where it seems the majority of the songs come from. I did hear one song from their 4th album yesterday actually. It SEEMS like there's nothing from 1984 (the year or the album) and later though.... Rush is another example. It SEEMS as though only a few of their songs are in the mix.
Now, I'm certain that plenty of other songs are played. In fact, looking at the list online, I see that I'm wrong. I guess what might be nice is with many bands/artists, delve into their 2nd tier songs, i.e. not just their "hit" songs. Fans of this genre won't be disappointed. With some songs I hear, I say to myself, "you don't hear this on the radio very often!".
Now, I'm certain that plenty of other songs are played. In fact, looking at the list online, I see that I'm wrong. I guess what might be nice is with many bands/artists, delve into their 2nd tier songs, i.e. not just their "hit" songs. Fans of this genre won't be disappointed. With some songs I hear, I say to myself, "you don't hear this on the radio very often!".
hall said:
Nope...we play music from the album "1984"...and there are more than just a few Rush songs in there. Remember this is all a work in progress. You don't just dump 2,000 tracks in a computer and play them. You find through research the ones that work and that is an ongoing process because the research changes over time.
ericjbard said:
Just my own personal thoughts here:
On one hand, I can appreciate what you're saying. (Because I worked for the station in the early 80's when we were not allowed by management to say, "Dayton weather"...it had to be "Miami Valley Weather", so as not to "offend" the locals.) On the other hand though, with the growth of Wright State University and Wright Patterson Air Force Base, and the county in general, I have to wonder how much of that "local" identity still prevails there.
Here's what I mean...Greene County is a "metro" county in the "Dayton Market" Arbitron ratings. And the station also shows well periodically in Clark County and often in Clinton and Warren County. Greene County is the "Dayton Radio Market"...and the Eagle is not just simply a Greene County station. Xenia is simply the city of license of the station, though it does offer a locally produced public affairs show on the weekends that focuses on Greene County. The station also historically has done wall to wall weather coverage should Greene County find itself the target of severe weather. (That is important to the community for obvious reasons, I agree.)
Given the history of the station's ratings (which I have here...back to 1975). The station (as WBZI-FM) came on the air in 1967...but never showed in the overall year average metro ratings
until 1982. (The days of the station being, for a while, the only FM country station in the market, when it was averaging around a 2 to a 2 and half share 12+.) By 1987, the ratings had dropped to barely a one share and below. Especially prior to 1990 or so, they were "hyper local".
It wouldn't seem, given those numbers that "being hyper local" on the air helped it that much. In fact, the best ratings it had happened when it wasn't doing that. So, the question that would be asked is: do you constantly say "Xenia, Xenia, Xenia, Greene County, Greene County, Greene County"? Or do you get the support there by playing a format the target demo likes and by being there to serve the public interest, convenience and necessity when it's really needed?
Yes, it did used to be that way there years ago. Today, personally speaking, I'm not so sure.
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