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Should WEEI drop AM?

reelyreal said:
Also, Westinghouse worked pretty damn hard to keep 1060 off the air. For more than 15 years they prevented the 25kw night signal from being licensed, as they owned co-channel KYW as well. Even today, the 25kw never materialized as a result of the constant challenges, and today they only have the CP for 2500 watts.

1060 never had a CP for any more than 2500W nights. It is now licensed for 2500W nights and has been since long before the transfer of ownership from Langer to Holy Family. What amazes me still, is that CBS did not contest Holy Family's request for a CP to increase 1060's day power from 40 kW from two half-wave towers in Framingham (the old WKOX site) to 50 kW from three half-wave towers in Ashland (1060's existing night site, which is also diplexed with WAMG). Holy Family did conductivity measurements to demonstrate the absence of prohibited overlap between the two 50-kW daytime signals. However, I think the deciding factor was the lower population density near the Ashland site compared with the population density around the old WKOX site just north of the center of downtown Framingham. I think WBZ's engineers decided that some third-adjacent interference in relatively rural Ashland was preferable to the same problem in relatively urban Framingham. Far fewer people receive objectionable interference now that 1060 is in Ashland day and night.
 
DanStrassberg said:
reelyreal said:
Also, Westinghouse worked pretty damn hard to keep 1060 off the air. For more than 15 years they prevented the 25kw night signal from being licensed, as they owned co-channel KYW as well. Even today, the 25kw never materialized as a result of the constant challenges, and today they only have the CP for 2500 watts.

1060 never had a CP for any more than 2500W nights. It is now licensed for 2500W nights and has been since long before the transfer of ownership from Langer to Holy Family. What amazes me still, is that CBS did not contest Holy Family's request for a CP to increase 1060's day power from 40 kW from two half-wave towers in Framingham (the old WKOX site) to 50 kW from three half-wave towers in Ashland (1060's existing night site, which is also diplexed with WAMG). Holy Family did conductivity measurements to demonstrate the absence of prohibited overlap between the two 50-kW daytime signals. However, I think the deciding factor was the lower population density near the Ashland site compared with the population density around the old WKOX site just north of the center of downtown Framingham. I think WBZ's engineers decided that some third-adjacent interference in relatively rural Ashland was preferable to the same problem in relatively urban Framingham. Far fewer people receive objectionable interference now that 1060 is in Ashland day and night.

I remember hearing a story about the 25,000 watt night permit, but the only other evidence I can come up with is Scott Fybush:

http://www.fybush.com/sites/2005/site-050916.html

He may be able to shed some light on it. He and I could both be wrong, though.

As for the 50kw CP from the Ashland night site, the pattern is putting more signal south and west, with the conductivity studies and new pattern showing less signal toward WBZ. I'm sure if they were wrong about that, WBZ would have spoken up.

Either way, WBZ is still the most powerful AM in Boston.
 
raccoonradio said:
One poss would be, for HD2s:
93.7: Funkytown or Mike
97.7: Mike or Funkytown
107.3: WRKO (since RKO is weak to the west at night)
Tuning in on my HD portable last night here in Beverly there was a "signal" on the WMKK 93.7 HD-3
but no sound.

Who knows they may not bother to keep an HD2 for Mike but it did have a lot of fans. They put
Funkytown on as a bit of keeping Star 93.7 going

There may still be the occasional sports bump to RKO; as I said, on Mon night I would think both
AM and FM signals of EEI would be talking Pats with RKO carrying the second MNF game. But, yes.

My prediction is that a WRKO simulcast will move to 93.7-HD2 and that Funkytown will bite the dust. If they're not moving Mike to HD, why would they keep Funkytown? It's been off the air since 2005 and I doubt it attracts much listenership or hype.
 
We'll have to see; for now at least and perhaps into the future Funkytown is online at sites like
star937.com, funkytownboston.com, and http://wmkk.radiotown.com/Funkytown/index.htm

I'll check my HD portable later to see what's on. In the meantime even though several local stations
are airing ads for HD radios (one has someone praising radio for being the soundtrack of their lives
and now there are "local stations with extra channels"), apparently retailers like Best Buy and Radio
Shack may only be selling them by request/order only. You might not be able to just walk into a store
(as I did, Best Buy) and purchase one from them. You may have to pre-order...
 
[Quote from: reelyreal on Yesterday at 04:42:59 PM]
As for the 50kw CP from the Ashland night site, the pattern is putting more signal south and west, with the conductivity studies and new pattern showing less signal toward WBZ. I'm sure if they were wrong about that, WBZ would have spoken up.
[/quote]

Wrong on most counts! WBZ is happy about having 1060 in Ashland by day--as opposed to Framingham. When the application for the daytime site change and power increase was filed, I talked with someone very definitely in the know at WBZ. Although Westinghouse had strongly fought WGTR's 1981 power increase/addition of night service, CBS did not fight WBIX/WQOM's 2010 daytime power increase. Even though the 50-kW day signal is a little stronger than was the old 40 kW day signal, they regard the 50-kW 1060 daytime signal as causing less interference to WBZ because of the lower population density in Ashland.

As for the difference in patterns, yes--compared with the 40-kW day pattern from the old WKOX site in Framingham, the signal to the south is stronger--a lot stronger. But coverage to the west (toward Central Mass) has been eliminated. Both the 40 kW (Framingham) day pattern and the new 50 kW (Ashland) day pattern were/are modified cardioids. The 40-kW pattern (actually patterns--WBIX had a separate critical-hours pattern and ran at reduced power--22 kW--during critical hours) used two closely-spaced towers (the towers were 80 degrees apart for WKOX; ~70 degrees for WBIX). The patterns were symmetrical about an axis with an azimuth of 36 degrees true (north-northeast). The CH pattern had a tighter null to the southwest than the non-CH pattern and had an augmentation at 180 degrees to account for the effect of re-radiation from the tall chimney at the Framingham incinerator across Mt Wayte Ave from the site. The new 50 kW day pattern uses three towers spaced 100 degrees apart along an azimuth of 90 degrees (due east). Like all theoretical patterns synthesized from in-line arrays, all of these patterns were, of necessity, symmetrical about the azimuth of the line of towers. Augmentation of the Framingham CH pattern spoiled the symmetry of the standard pattern. There was no need to augment the Framingham non-CH pattern because the non-CH protection to KYW was not that severe.

WBIX's original CP for 50 kW-D from Ashland used the five-tower night pattern without modification--an approach that required a minimum of design engineering. The 50 kW version of the night pattern was narrower than the three-tower day pattern now in use and had much tighter radiation suppression behind and to the sides of the pattern. The problem with that approach was that implementing it would have required much more construction. Even though the end towers of the five-tower array run at relatively low power, the transmission lines to them were not sized to handle 50 kW. A lot of digging would have been required to replace the transmission lines between towers 1 and 2 and between towers 4 and 5 as would repair to the ground system along the radials above those lines. Holy Family brought in a new consulting engineer, Charlie Hecht, who came up with the three-tower approach, which doesn't deliver quite as much of a signal to Boston proper as the five-tower day pattern would have but spreads out the pattern over a full 180 degrees. Hecht's measurements showed that, despite the increased radiation to the south, there would not be prohibited overlap with first-adjacent WEPN in the vicinity of the RI-CT border.
 
WEEI should keep 850 as the "official" flagship. They stomped the Hub with 850, adding 93.7 as icing only after
850 cleaned up. You can listen to PBP on an AM through just about any static or fading conditions -- albeit with some ear strain -- as opposed the maddening loss of signal during key plays that a marginal FM can deliver!

I believe that two formats sound ideal on AM. Sports and Jazz!


-
 
AM Signals being turned down or shifted with sunset.
Interference--you're driving and a crucial moment happens and bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Loss of FM signal? It can happen but not often
FM sounds better
In workplaces you can actually pick up many FM signals while AM are drowned out by bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
 
DanStrassberg said:
[Quote from: reelyreal on Yesterday at 04:42:59 PM]
As for the 50kw CP from the Ashland night site, the pattern is putting more signal south and west, with the conductivity studies and new pattern showing less signal toward WBZ. I'm sure if they were wrong about that, WBZ would have spoken up.


Wrong on most counts! WBZ is happy about having 1060 in Ashland by day--as opposed to Framingham. When the application for the daytime site change and power increase was filed, I talked with someone very definitely in the know at WBZ. Although Westinghouse had strongly fought WGTR's 1981 power increase/addition of night service, CBS did not fight WBIX/WQOM's 2010 daytime power increase. Even though the 50-kW day signal is a little stronger than was the old 40 kW day signal, they regard the 50-kW 1060 daytime signal as causing less interference to WBZ because of the lower population density in Ashland.

As for the difference in patterns, yes--compared with the 40-kW day pattern from the old WKOX site in Framingham, the signal to the south is stronger--a lot stronger. But coverage to the west (toward Central Mass) has been eliminated. Both the 40 kW (Framingham) day pattern and the new 50 kW (Ashland) day pattern were/are modified cardioids. The 40-kW pattern (actually patterns--WBIX had a separate critical-hours pattern and ran at reduced power--22 kW--during critical hours) used two closely-spaced towers (the towers were 80 degrees apart for WKOX; ~70 degrees for WBIX). The patterns were symmetrical about an axis with an azimuth of 36 degrees true (north-northeast). The CH pattern had a tighter null to the southwest than the non-CH pattern and had an augmentation at 180 degrees to account for the effect of re-radiation from the tall chimney at the Framingham incinerator across Mt Wayte Ave from the site. The new 50 kW day pattern uses three towers spaced 100 degrees apart along an azimuth of 90 degrees (due east). Like all theoretical patterns synthesized from in-line arrays, all of these patterns were, of necessity, symmetrical about the azimuth of the line of towers. Augmentation of the Framingham CH pattern spoiled the symmetry of the standard pattern. There was no need to augment the Framingham non-CH pattern because the non-CH protection to KYW was not that severe.

WBIX's original CP for 50 kW-D from Ashland used the five-tower night pattern without modification--an approach that required a minimum of design engineering. The 50 kW version of the night pattern was narrower than the three-tower day pattern now in use and had much tighter radiation suppression behind and to the sides of the pattern. The problem with that approach was that implementing it would have required much more construction. Even though the end towers of the five-tower array run at relatively low power, the transmission lines to them were not sized to handle 50 kW. A lot of digging would have been required to replace the transmission lines between towers 1 and 2 and between towers 4 and 5 as would repair to the ground system along the radials above those lines. Holy Family brought in a new consulting engineer, Charlie Hecht, who came up with the three-tower approach, which doesn't deliver quite as much of a signal to Boston proper as the five-tower day pattern would have but spreads out the pattern over a full 180 degrees. Hecht's measurements showed that, despite the increased radiation to the south, there would not be prohibited overlap with first-adjacent WEPN in the vicinity of the RI-CT border.

So... you said I'm wrong on most counts, went into an incredibly elaborate and mostly irrelevant engineering discussion, and ended up agreeing with all three points I made in my quoted statement.

I said the new site would cause less interference to WBZ. You said:

DanStrassberg said:
hey regard the 50-kW 1060 daytime signal as causing less interference to WBZ because of the lower population density in Ashland.

I said more power to the south and to the west. You said:

DanStrassberg said:
yes--compared with the 40-kW day pattern from the old WKOX site in Framingham, the signal to the south is stronger--a lot stronger. But coverage to the west (toward Central Mass) has been eliminated.

So you agree with me on the southern pattern. As for more power to the west, Charlie Hecht agrees with me in his engineering study submitted to the FCC with the application. He said:

" With the exception of relatively small areas to the south and west of the WBIX transmitter
site, most of the geographic area encompassed by the pertinent proposed WBIX allocation
contours lies within the boundaries of what has been authorized in the underlying construction
permit."

So you said I was wrong, then agreed with me on all points. I think that means I was not wrong.
 
DavidZ said:
Jazz on AM?? Tell me you were being sarcastic.
Real jazz WOULD sound good on AM... better than no jazz at all. No FM station seems to want it! (except in little time/date-pockets every now & then.)
Jazz on AM is better than no jazz at all.
 
JIBGUY said:
DavidZ said:
Jazz on AM?? Tell me you were being sarcastic.
Real jazz WOULD sound good on AM... better than no jazz at all. No FM station seems to want it! (except in little time/date-pockets every now & then.)
Jazz on AM is better than no jazz at all.

WGBH-FM runs jazz in the evenings and all night. Jazz is a mainstay at WICN, which some people inside of 128 can pick up. WHRB runs some jazz. I've never tried to figure out whether the bi-monthly program guide provides enough info to help listeners figure out when to tune in for it. My taste in jazz seems most closely aligned with what WICN plays. Although reception can be excellent (I guess when trops are cooperating) and is most often adequate, it sometimes degenerates into big doses of splatter from WZBC.
 
I'd say CFZM's more of a Nostalgia/Oldies-based full service format, as they've added some talk middays. Still, I'd enjoy seeing another station do this kind of programming with the listener-supported model, as Bob does at WJIB and WJTO.
 
raccoonradio said:
I'm making a tape for a tape trader right now (3:16 am) and giving him some Jazz With Bob Parlocha
from 'GBH-FM

That's a nationally syndicated program, it doesn't originate at WGBH. I don't know where the person you're taping for is located, but there may be an affiliate in his area.
 
Yup, do know that but I couldn't find anything else suitable on my local radio (could have hooked up to comp. and get something off web). My friend is in Colton CA...and I think it's probably on a station from
Long Beach CA...not sure if he can pick up that station, and the prog. airs overnight so I'm not sure he'd
hear it normally
 
Check out what Anonymous wrote as a comment on the following Boston Radio Watch post about
the WEEI simulcast/move to 93.7:

http://bostonradiowatch.blogspot.com/2011/09/bostons-sports-radio-is-set-to-quake-93.html

Basically this person says that maybe WEEI would also simulcast on 107.3, leaving 97.7 as the only home
of WAAF, and WEEI 850 would go ESPN 24/7 "with some overflow play by play from 93.7/107.3"; they say
this would be a solid home for WEEI in Central New Eng and WCRN might even consider joining the
Yankees network.

Not sure if this would happen--I would think WAAF is profitable at both frequencies and I'm not sure
that they'd want to make 850 ESPN "24/7"...comments? (Maybe I could picture the 850 carrying ESPN
middays and overnights only, and simulcasting AM drive--D&C--and PM drive--Big Show from 93.7. Both
the AM and FM of course carry ESPN overnight.

So, would Ent. take WAAF off 107.3 to further strengthen EEI?
 
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