Shut it all* down (radio) - use OTA (ATSC 1.0) DTV (audio)

[R.D.P.]

Sounds like an idea that's destined for failure.

Dan <><

 

[vchimpanzee]

There used to be cable radio, where the cable company picked some local stations and put their audio on some channels. Today, there's Music Choice, which is a music-only delivery service owned by the cable companies. I believe it's also available on DirecTV.

I remember this. We visited some people in the mountains. The one AM station on their system had an FM frequency, before translators. I asked about it on this site and it was explained somewhere.

 

[PTBoardOp93]

As always with any argument, the notion that 100 percent of people are or are not doing something is a fallacy.

Yes, I was speaking in the aggregate, based on survey data. I should have said "People who are cutting cable are not installing antennas en masse" to make that clear.

 

[fybush]

A technical observation: within the 19.39 mbps of ATSC 1.0 data throughput, it's entirely trivial to add dozens of audio streams at 128 kbps or less.

The question isn't a technical one (aside from mobile reception), it's entirely political.

 

[Kelly A]

Sure, just load your flat panel TV into the car, Velcro a pair of rabbit ears to the roof, plug a 12V to 120V inverter in, and you can listen to radio audio via a TV transmission.
That makes as much sense as two cans and a long string.

 

[radiofan2023]

A technical observation: within the 19.39 mbps of ATSC 1.0 data throughput, it's entirely trivial to add dozens of audio streams at 128 kbps or less.

The question isn't a technical one (aside from mobile reception), it's entirely political.

I think it’s also commercial, as in why would the tv stations give up any bandwidth for just audio streams (excluding the reading services for the blind channel that Iowa Public TV lets them use, since they’re noncom)

 

[kfbkfb]

Just to reiterate - streaming [in stereo, depending on the station] for mobile "reception" for current radio stations (they would shut off their transmitters) and ATSC 1.0 audio only DTV subchannels containing say, the top 20 (AM or FM) radio stations in a market.

To keep the DTV audio data rate very low, could use Dolby Digital in mono and have a black screen with the channel ID text showing the (old) radio station call letters etc., if someone wants to hear the content in stereo, stream the content.

In this context, each ATSC 1.0 DTV set can be thought of as a table radio (generally left in one place and needs to be plugged in to AC to work).

Although people apparently aren't buying many new radios, they are buying new TVs (to get a bigger screen, 4K, Dolby Vision, HDR etc.), these TVs have ATSC 1.0 tuners and can be glorified table radios too.


Kirk Bayne

 

[Miss Tuned]

Just to reiterate

Why?

 

[MarioMania]

View attachment 7750

I haven't seen this for a long time

 

[Kelly A]

In this context, each ATSC 1.0 DTV set can be thought of as a table radio (generally left in one place and needs to be plugged in to AC to work).

But the majority of people don't listen to radio at home. They stream or use smart speakers. They don't think of an ATSC-anything. They think of when I tell that little box to play XXXX, it plays. When they press the Spotify icon on their phone, it plays their favorite music.
It's absurd to think that consumers will try, let alone care about listening to linear radio via a TV. It's equally silly to think radio stations would be interested in feeding their local TV station with their audio on the unlikely chance someone might listen.

Although people apparently aren't buying many new radios, they are buying new TVs (to get a bigger screen, 4K, Dolby Vision, HDR etc.), these TVs have ATSC 1.0 tuners and can be glorified table radios too.

Considering few if anyone would be interested in purchasing a device that plays the same as their car radio, what manufacturer would bother doing the R&D to build such a receiver?

 

[kfbkfb]

Any DTV with an ATSC 1.0 tuner would work for my idea, no new type of receiver needed, and nearly all DTV sets have ATSC 1.0 tuners, people already have devices to receive audio only DTV subchannels.

It would be a way to offer some of the local radio stations for free (ad supported, not requiring a data plan for the listening devices), another part of my idea is that radio transmitters would be shut off for stations that opt to stream their audio and make their audio available as DTV subchannels.


Kirk Bayne

 

[radiofan2023]

More beating a dead horse

 

[Kelly A]

Any DTV with an ATSC 1.0 tuner would work for my idea, no new type of receiver needed, and nearly all DTV sets have ATSC 1.0 tuners, people already have devices to receive audio only DTV subchannels.

Good Lord. What part of people don't carry their TV's around in their car don't you understand Kirk?

It would be a way to offer some of the local radio stations for free (ad supported, not requiring a data plan for the listening devices), another part of my idea is that radio transmitters would be shut off for stations that opt to stream their audio and make their audio available as DTV subchannels.

Why would radio stations shut off the transmitters they already pay for? Could you imagine trying to explain some idea about putting their TV into their car if they want to hear their favorite station ever again? Maybe time to get the meds adjusted?

 

[spunker88]

Most OTA radio listening happens in cars. ATSC 1.0 doesn't work well in motion so it would be unusable in cars. ATSC 3.0 does work better in motion but its still in its infancy and due to broadcasters insisting on DRM, its probably never going to take off. Also from a technological standpoint, most TV stations are on UHF and car radio antennas are designed for FM on VHF meaning if you wanted to upgrade your car's head unit you would also need to upgrade the antenna for ideal reception. Nobody is going to do that.

People have ATSC 1.0 tuners at home, but people also have wifi at home. They aren't listening to the radio on AM/FM at home, they are just streaming it. Even in the days before internet streaming and DTV, you rarely saw FM tuners in TVs unless they were portable TVs, which tells me that there wasn't demand for listening to the radio on your living room TV.

 

[vchimpanzee]

It's equally silly to think radio stations would be interested in feeding their local TV station with their audio on the unlikely chance someone might listen.

Going back to Ecstasy at Myrtle Beach, SC in the 1970s, cable had a channel with information and music.

 

[vchimpanzee]

Even in the days before internet streaming and DTV, you rarely saw FM tuners in TVs unless they were portable TVs, which tells me that there wasn't demand for listening to the radio on your living room TV.

I had one, and the signal was better on the TV than on the radio on the station I wanted to hear.

I looked forward to "Bob Snyder Time" hosted by Joe Lacina.

 

[TheBigA]

another part of my idea is that radio transmitters would be shut off for stations that opt to stream their audio and make their audio available as DTV subchannels.

The main revenue a station gets is from their broadcast signal. So no one would shut off their transmitter for a stream. Especially if they paid millions of dollars for the license to use that frequency. Might as well take a bag of money and set it on fire. Stations can do both. In fact most ARE doing both. They can broadcast on their signal and stream over the internet. They don't need to use DTV subchannels. They can go direct and bypass the middleman. People can receive the internet (and therefore AM & FM) on smart speakers, desktops, and their phones. They're not buying separate radios because it's part of other devices as well as their car.

 

[Negin]

Most OTA radio listening happens in cars. ATSC 1.0 doesn't work well in motion so it would be unusable in cars. ATSC 3.0 does work better in motion but its still in its infancy and due to broadcasters insisting on DRM, its probably never going to take off. Also from a technological standpoint, most TV stations are on UHF and car radio antennas are designed for FM on VHF meaning if you wanted to upgrade your car's head unit you would also need to upgrade the antenna for ideal reception. Nobody is going to do that.

People have ATSC 1.0 tuners at home, but people also have wifi at home. They aren't listening to the radio on AM/FM at home, they are just streaming it. Even in the days before internet streaming and DTV, you rarely saw FM tuners in TVs unless they were portable TVs, which tells me that there wasn't demand for listening to the radio on your living room TV.

I'm probably one of the rare ones that listen to a radio at home, although it's on my DaySequerra rackmount tuner on my audio rack.

 

[vchimpanzee]

I listen to an actual radio for "Wait! Wait!" on NPR. I'm trying to fix and eat lunch and get the wash out of the dryer. The computer is in another room. However, even though it's a new radio, it occasionally quits working for some reason. I have to turn it off and turn it on.

A few minutes ago, the Internet did the same thing. I thought the radio station had a problem when it switched from one show to another but nothing else was working for a few seconds. Radio is normally more dependable.

 

[kfbkfb]

I was thinking about people saying "You're taking away free radio!" if (IMHO, when) radio goes all streaming (requiring devices with data plans - an ongoing cost vs. the one time purchase of a radio), the radio transmitters are a cost that can be eliminated.

Mobile reception of "radio" stations would be streaming only, the radio audio on a DTV subchannel is for people who, for whatever reason, don't want to pay a monthly charge to listen to the radio.

If some cheapskate (like me) wants to take an ATSC 1.0 DTV with them in their vehicle, use a 12VDC->117VAC converter and listen to some of the local streams (formerly local radio stations), they can.


Kirk Bayne