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Sideline QBs...

B

bitterlikeyou

Guest
Hey NightAire...

Why don't you put your supposed talent to work and become a PD? Seems as all you do on these boards is sideline QB every other company's decisions except those at your low-budg website.

We all know you love radio--and we all think you're a smart guy--but, why not put it to good use and become a PD? I'm sure there's a company who would hire you in a minute. Seriously--with all of your brilliance, you should be calling the shots on the playing field, not just on the board.

Seems as though you'd be a good fit for any format.
 
Hey, Bitter.

Night HAS been a PD before. And from what I know of him, he left that job because having to deal with all of the. B.S. and politics sucked the fun right out of radio.

I don't know what he said about your company to tick you off, but it's just his opinion. Plus, these boards are just for fun and they're the PERFECT place for sideline QB'ing. That's a big reason many come here. And it's OK. So take it like a man, take it for what it is, and next time post under your real name. Opening up an alias just to fry someone else is pretty pithy.
 
Yeah you back door sissy, throw down with your real name so we can really hand you a thrashing! The only time I won't use my real name is when I'm talking to an IRS agent.

The Lyin' King
 
Thompson & Bob: thanks for the kind words; I'm with you, I consider this a place to exchange ideas, good, bad and ugly. I'd LIKE to think something I say here helps, or at least makes people think through what they do. If not, it cost me a little time to post it and you even less time to read it... like we say about people being able to turn the station, if people don't like my posts they certainly don't have to read them. (I understand there's talk about allowing you to ignore users on this board... I think that's a GREAT idea, and would allow anybody who wanted to shut out my blather, to do so.)

BITTERLIKE YOU: I'm going to give a serious answer to your smart-ankle question, because I doubt I'm the only person who feels this way.

I am a PD, as you mentioned, at my "low-budg website." It is a job that can only be part time and costs me instead of paying me for my time. It's a lot of fun, even though (because?) I can do things there I would NEVER do on the air if I were PD of a terrestrial station. As G Thompson said, I have been PD before, and took a job at half the pay across town because of the balderdash involved. One of my heroes who shall go unnamed has said he wouldn't accept a PD position no matter how much money they offered him, and that's what I found out in my position: there are things I WON'T do for money.

The problem isn't PDs, the problem isn't the staff, it is the money... what I mean is, corporate has to answer to share holders who really don't care what you think might make money down the road, what is good for the community, or what feels like a good risk to your "gut;" they want a return on their investment, and they want it NOW.

As a result, corporate tells PDs what to do to cut costs (maximize revenue), and then holds PDs responsible for their decisions and how it affects the ROI. In other words, PDs have responsibility, but not control. This is happening around the country, not just here it Tulsa... it's EVERYWHERE. It puts talented people in difficult positions... and occasionally allows corporate to put complete idiots in the PD position and have them be successful by corporate standards because they're basically puppets. (We ALL likely know one or two of these...)

There are degrees of this control, of course, and there are some pleasant exceptions in town. Everybody wants to make money, but look at Shamrock as one company who seems to let their PDs actually program. KXOJ may be similar; it's been too long since I've been there, but since this is "home" for the company it seems more likely more decisions are made locally. Rhenda may also be more like that as well, I'm not that familiar with their setup either. Then you have KCFO-AM 970, KRVT-AM 1270, AM 1340 (KJMU?), and KXTD-AM 1530, none of which are making a killing but would likely be a LOT of fun to take the helm of.

Most stations don't want me to be their PD any more than I want to PD for them. I want to stand or fall based on my station's performance. Don't give me a checklist of things to make sure my "appearance" is good, watch and see if I generate an audience and income! If I don't, cut me loose.

There's not a publicly traded company in town that would risk their property on an unproven jock like me... not one. If I could fit into their straightjacket and them take the blame if their ideas don't work, then I'd be their man. Otherwise, forget it.

...I am curious as to what I would do on this board besides sideline QB every other company's decisions? What should I be posting? I'm not aware of being the most bitter, most attacking, or the person most talking down radio on this board by a long shot... is my vision that blurry? Or is it that you just wish I would shut up?

As far as sideline QB-ing my OWN decisions... do you REALLY want that? I figure me telling you everything that's wrong about my internet station would make for rather boring reading. Certainly if you want the list, I'll be happy to get it to you, but if I knew a way to change what's not right with it I would have done it. A lot of it is time, which I don't have right now... so check back in 5 years. :) And yes, the website design stinks, that's because I built it myself in Notepad and I haven't learned CSS yet which would greatly ease my work on it... there's that time issue again. So the site blows and the stream blows... but it's better than nothing and as I said it's a lot of fun (wait'll you hear what we do for Halloween!).

I do love radio, you're right, and always have... and thank you for saying I'm a smart guy. I don't know if I'm smart or if I've just been lucky enough to work for and with some really smart people. My 2nd PD taught me 10 years' worth of jock knowledge and experience in two years... my growth under him was amazing... and that was just one station. I've always loved shooting the breeze with those who have been where and done what I can only dream about... I hope I've picked up some of their good advice along the way. If I have good ideas, you can likely blame those I listened to growing up and those I've worked for & with!

I'll repeat that there is NOT a company who would "hire me in a minute." In fact, it's been a challenge even to find jock work in this town... if I had been willing to move, perhaps I would have had better luck, but I've gotten an awful lot of "I love your work, we just don't have anything right now." After a while, you start wondering if the compliments from co-workers and listeners were just people being nice, and you start checking how much a garbage collector makes (more than a jock, I think).

My desire, my hope now is to simply be a jock. That's why I got into this business, it's what I love most. Tell me what to do on the air, I'll go do it. Realistically, I don't expect any station to let me do what I would want to do if I was PD, or APD, and I don't have much of a desire to do much of anything else in radio... management is just not in my blood. There was a time I thought it was, but broken promises and attached strings (and lies, and backstabbing, and...) beat that out of me. If a maverick local station offered me the chance to "pilot the ship," or even an APD or MD position with a good PD above me opened up, sure I'd look at it... I'm not holding my breath, though.

"All of my brilliance?" Should that be a serious statement, please see above, re, my mentors. I'd love to be calling the shots, but that's not what companies want.

I HAVE worked quite a few formats, and have been pretty darn successful in most of them. I've enjoyed some of them a lot more than others, though! :) I'm also sure I would do better at programming some that others, although your good programmer depends on research and listener feedback (and advice from others in the biz) so most "mainstream" formats seem workable to me. As far as jocking, apparently I lean more AC than top 40 or rock... your musical tastes obviously have no impact on where you sound best on the air. :D

My current work situation, although not as much money or the hours I would prefer, is the best of many worlds: a stable station, format and company I can believe in, co-workers I enjoy working with and who encourage me to do better every day, a GREAT boss, and work I truly enjoy doing. What more could I ask for?

My wife is extremely jealous! ;)

My apologies for the position you find yourself in. I wish you could enjoy your job like I enjoy mine. 8)
 
NightAire said:
Thompson & Bob: thanks for the kind words; I'm with you, I consider this a place to exchange ideas, good, bad and ugly. I'd LIKE to think something I say here helps, or at least makes people think through what they do. If not, it cost me a little time to post it and you even less time to read it... like we say about people being able to turn the station, if people don't like my posts they certainly don't have to read them. (I understand there's talk about allowing you to ignore users on this board... I think that's a GREAT idea, and would allow anybody who wanted to shut out my blather, to do so.)

BITTERLIKE YOU: I'm going to give a serious answer to your smart-ankle question, because I doubt I'm the only person who feels this way.

I am a PD, as you mentioned, at my "low-budg website." It is a job that can only be part time and costs me instead of paying me for my time. It's a lot of fun, even though (because?) I can do things there I would NEVER do on the air if I were PD of a terrestrial station. As G Thompson said, I have been PD before, and took a job at half the pay across town because of the balderdash involved. One of my heroes who shall go unnamed has said he wouldn't accept a PD position no matter how much money they offered him, and that's what I found out in my position: there are things I WON'T do for money.

The problem isn't PDs, the problem isn't the staff, it is the money... what I mean is, corporate has to answer to share holders who really don't care what you think might make money down the road, what is good for the community, or what feels like a good risk to your "gut;" they want a return on their investment, and they want it NOW.

As a result, corporate tells PDs what to do to cut costs (maximize revenue), and then holds PDs responsible for their decisions and how it affects the ROI. In other words, PDs have responsibility, but not control. This is happening around the country, not just here it Tulsa... it's EVERYWHERE. It puts talented people in difficult positions... and occasionally allows corporate to put complete idiots in the PD position and have them be successful by corporate standards because they're basically puppets. (We ALL likely know one or two of these...)

There are degrees of this control, of course, and there are some pleasant exceptions in town. Everybody wants to make money, but look at Shamrock as one company who seems to let their PDs actually program. KXOJ may be similar; it's been too long since I've been there, but since this is "home" for the company it seems more likely more decisions are made locally. Rhenda may also be more like that as well, I'm not that familiar with their setup either. Then you have KCFO-AM 970, KRVT-AM 1270, AM 1340 (KJMU?), and KXTD-AM 1530, none of which are making a killing but would likely be a LOT of fun to take the helm of.

Most stations don't want me to be their PD any more than I want to PD for them. I want to stand or fall based on my station's performance. Don't give me a checklist of things to make sure my "appearance" is good, watch and see if I generate an audience and income! If I don't, cut me loose.

There's not a publicly traded company in town that would risk their property on an unproven jock like me... not one. If I could fit into their straightjacket and them take the blame if their ideas don't work, then I'd be their man. Otherwise, forget it.

...I am curious as to what I would do on this board besides sideline QB every other company's decisions? What should I be posting? I'm not aware of being the most bitter, most attacking, or the person most talking down radio on this board by a long shot... is my vision that blurry? Or is it that you just wish I would shut up?

As far as sideline QB-ing my OWN decisions... do you REALLY want that? I figure me telling you everything that's wrong about my internet station would make for rather boring reading. Certainly if you want the list, I'll be happy to get it to you, but if I knew a way to change what's not right with it I would have done it. A lot of it is time, which I don't have right now... so check back in 5 years. :) And yes, the website design stinks, that's because I built it myself in Notepad and I haven't learned CSS yet which would greatly ease my work on it... there's that time issue again. So the site blows and the stream blows... but it's better than nothing and as I said it's a lot of fun (wait'll you hear what we do for Halloween!).

I do love radio, you're right, and always have... and thank you for saying I'm a smart guy. I don't know if I'm smart or if I've just been lucky enough to work for and with some really smart people. My 2nd PD taught me 10 years' worth of jock knowledge and experience in two years... my growth under him was amazing... and that was just one station. I've always loved shooting the breeze with those who have been where and done what I can only dream about... I hope I've picked up some of their good advice along the way. If I have good ideas, you can likely blame those I listened to growing up and those I've worked for & with!

I'll repeat that there is NOT a company who would "hire me in a minute." In fact, it's been a challenge even to find jock work in this town... if I had been willing to move, perhaps I would have had better luck, but I've gotten an awful lot of "I love your work, we just don't have anything right now." After a while, you start wondering if the compliments from co-workers and listeners were just people being nice, and you start checking how much a garbage collector makes (more than a jock, I think).

My desire, my hope now is to simply be a jock. That's why I got into this business, it's what I love most. Tell me what to do on the air, I'll go do it. Realistically, I don't expect any station to let me do what I would want to do if I was PD, or APD, and I don't have much of a desire to do much of anything else in radio... management is just not in my blood. There was a time I thought it was, but broken promises and attached strings (and lies, and backstabbing, and...) beat that out of me. If a maverick local station offered me the chance to "pilot the ship," or even an APD or MD position with a good PD above me opened up, sure I'd look at it... I'm not holding my breath, though.

"All of my brilliance?" Should that be a serious statement, please see above, re, my mentors. I'd love to be calling the shots, but that's not what companies want.

I HAVE worked quite a few formats, and have been pretty darn successful in most of them. I've enjoyed some of them a lot more than others, though! :) I'm also sure I would do better at programming some that others, although your good programmer depends on research and listener feedback (and advice from others in the biz) so most "mainstream" formats seem workable to me. As far as jocking, apparently I lean more AC than top 40 or rock... your musical tastes obviously have no impact on where you sound best on the air. :D

My current work situation, although not as much money or the hours I would prefer, is the best of many worlds: a stable station, format and company I can believe in, co-workers I enjoy working with and who encourage me to do better every day, a GREAT boss, and work I truly enjoy doing. What more could I ask for?

My wife is extremely jealous! ;)

My apologies for the position you find yourself in. I wish you could enjoy your job like I enjoy mine. 8)

Sooooo Nightaire, what are you trying to say? ;D

O'Shea
 
It may not be wise jumping in here, however, I'm not known for my intelligence. No offense to Mr. Likeyou, but I've been trolling these boards for years and I have found not only is the Oklahoma folder impressive, but the many view points from the players, coaches and even the band helpful. I may not agree with Mr. Aire 100% of the time, but if he doesn't toss his 2 cents in (that is the current pay for a jock right? ;)) how can anyone in this industry grow? Only a megalomaniac thinks his way is the only way and I've worked for a few of them. A discussion of ideas and knowing "I'm not the only one" is what this board helps me with the most. Sure sometimes tact is lacking, but we're human-ish like people who have, had, or hope to have one of the best jobs in the world. Mr. Aire and everyone who post here are putting their "supposed talent" to work. I'm sure they would like to get paid for their knowledge, but they offer up their experience and ideas for free. I believe the mantra for reading/seeing/hearing something that offends you... turn it off.

Now if we are discussing Mr. Aire's web mastering abilities well then... ya, why don't you go pee up a rope or something... you suck! ;) ;D
 
The problem isn't PDs, the problem isn't the staff, it is the money... what I mean is, corporate has to answer to share holders who really don't care what you think might make money down the road, what is good for the community, or what feels like a good risk to your "gut;" they want a return on their investment, and they want it NOW.

As a result, corporate tells PDs what to do to cut costs (maximize revenue), and then holds PDs responsible for their decisions and how it affects the ROI. In other words, PDs have responsibility, but not control. This is happening around the country, not just here it Tulsa... it's EVERYWHERE. It puts talented people in difficult positions... and occasionally allows corporate to put complete idiots in the PD position and have them be successful by corporate standards because they're basically puppets. (We ALL likely know one or two of these...)

WOW NightAire...your posting rings true for a lot of us. Those in radio and out can sympathize with your writings. It's hard to be in management and want to do things right but corporate is only interested in the bottom line. You keep on doing what you do and forget the rest. I've worked with you for a while in the past and you did a great job. I'm glad we have a forum that we can talk about radio in this town.
 
Thanks to everyone -- those currently employed in radio, and those clearly washed up -- who have come to the aide of NightAire.

I am not being critical of the content of his posts; I agree with many of the points you made. I do believe, however, that Mr. Aire should, in fact, work in the in the capacity of a manager with the existing state of our industry. Like it or not, we're here. We've arrived in these times. Bottom line--radio is not structured like it used to be.

We can pontificate all day long on the way things should be, but reality dictates that "it ain't the same" as it always was. Thanks for humoring me on the board. NightAire was truly the sacrificial lamb :)

Enjoy reading--and have a blessed day!
 
bitterlikeyou said:
Thanks to everyone -- those currently employed in radio, and those clearly washed up -- who have come to the aide of NightAire.

*chuckle*

If maturity and class automatically came with age, position and intelligence you'd be the complete package.
 
bitterlikeyou said:
Bottom line--radio is not structured like it used to be.

Well that is the bottom line. Radio has focused soley on the bottom line. To be fair, changes in programming weren't designed to do away with the jock or his or hers personality. It just seems that way and maybe it is the unintended end result. Things morph. Feels just like yesterday I was putting on my first set of pro cans in Midland, Michigan. It was magic. When I hung up the cans in June of '06 it was still magic. I just have other mountains to climb. I'm not 'washed up' and I don't believe you were singling out any one person. I'm not bitter really. I just got a little tired. I was never a liner jock per say, but I know I could fit right in. As far as personality radio goes, I could still smoke your ass.

Love Bob ;)
 
BitterLikeYou: Thanks for the kind words, & my apologies if I misunderstood you. I'd like to think, let loose with enough wattage, a decent staff, & a decent budget, I could do some entertaining (& profitable) radio.

I would have 2 choices in management at most stations:

#1 - Do what corporate tells me to do, then go home each night & kick the dog to release frustration.

#2 - Do what I believe would be best for the station, the staff, and the community... and last in the position a week, tops before they sent me sailing out the door with their boot.

I suspect there are a number of extremely talented people in this town doing #1 right now. I could easily list you a dozen people who I would LOVE to see handed 100,000 watts & a good-sized budget... they'd tear this town up. However, they like being able to make their mortgage & put their kids through college, so they stay quiet.

I have, I suppose, two hopes for right now:

#1 - That some rogue station turns to me some day and says, "why don't we give you a shot?" (Har-har-har.)

#2 - That internet radio gets all the legal issues straightened out, & all the technical issues for wireless internet ironed out, & I'm able to make a small living as the owner of an internet radio station.

In the meantime, I'm enjoying myself immensely, just generally being a DJ & pretending I'm one of the legends I grew up listening to. 8)

You make an excellent point that bears repeating:

We can pontificate all day long on the way things should be, but reality dictates that "it ain't the same" as it always was.

Agreed 100%. This is a "safe" place to say, "well, if I was in charge...", and then go back to work tomorrow and do what you're told. :) It's hard to offer practical programming advice when there's little local staff can do one way or another.

BOB: You keep your smoke away from our posteriors! ;)

G Thompson: You're crackin' me UP! Thanks for all the encouragement.

RadioSharpie: I'm blushing! The kindest words come from those who have had to work with you, and have nothing to gain from being nice to you. :) I wish I knew who you were! Thanks so much...

NobodyOfImportance: Now hiring, webmaster, no pay, no benefits... ;D
 
What really spooks me is walking into a radio station with nobody but the Production guy and the sales people buzzing in and out. I mean they're really whittling down the staffs everywhere in broadcasting. I don't know if this is good or bad but Sirius/Xm Sattelite radio appears to be in very stormy waters. Man, the safest place to be in radio right now is out of it. ???

Best of Luck to Everyone,
O'Shea
 
Really, there is no use for you guys to beat each other up. No, radio isn't the way it "used to be," but nothing is the way it used to be. Computer automation is here and here to stay, so to survive in today's radio, you have to diversify yourself. I personally believe the days of the jock are numbered, because it is just to easy to track the shows or let a Maestro-type system run the station and be done with it. So, sharpen your production skills, do some killer spots, produce brilliant imaging and promos, help in promotions setting up remote sites and events, if you're good on computers, offer to help... broaden your skill sets, especially if you find yourself 20 or more years in the business and you're wondering what to do next. Stations need these kinds of people. A good board-op with some technical skills can find a place in any radio station. Look for the things that are "going on" in the station, learn how to do it, and do it well. You will be amazed at how much more you can do. I mean really, would you continue to pay someone $30k to read liner cards when you can track it? Think about it as a business. Most of us (and for the record, I haven't) have never owned a radio station and have had the responsibility to pay the bills every month and meet a payroll. But it seems everyone knows how to "do it right."

Find the "holes" in your station and fill them.... And you will be fine.
 
Radio55 said:
Really, there is no use for you guys to beat each other up. No, radio isn't the way it "used to be," but nothing is the way it used to be. Computer automation is here and here to stay, so to survive in today's radio, you have to diversify yourself. I personally believe the days of the jock are numbered, because it is just to easy to track the shows or let a Maestro-type system run the station and be done with it. So, sharpen your production skills, do some killer spots, produce brilliant imaging and promos, help in promotions setting up remote sites and events, if you're good on computers, offer to help... broaden your skill sets, especially if you find yourself 20 or more years in the business and you're wondering what to do next. Stations need these kinds of people. A good board-op with some technical skills can find a place in any radio station. Look for the things that are "going on" in the station, learn how to do it, and do it well. You will be amazed at how much more you can do. I mean really, would you continue to pay someone $30k to read liner cards when you can track it? Think about it as a business. Most of us (and for the record, I haven't) have never owned a radio station and have had the responsibility to pay the bills every month and meet a payroll. But it seems everyone knows how to "do it right."

Find the "holes" in your station and fill them.... And you will be fine.

I own and operate 2 businesses. One v/o biz and one rental business. I used to own and operate a successful painting business until illegal immigration took that away! Most of us understand the nuts & bolts of business. I believe you're confusing discussion and public discourse with argumentation. It's just conversation. We jocks, you included, have always had another option......getting out of radio. For me it has worked out very well. I always loved voice over far more than getting up at 3:30 in the morning. And it is love when you get up that early. Board Op's serve a purpose too, but they get paid even less than a good air man. It may be different at places like KRMG but they would certainly be the rare exception. Yes, finding ways to make yourself valuable to the company is wise. Having stated that, not everyone has the talent to do the kind of produciton work you're talking about. That's why they have mega talent production director's like Wavey Davey. All the other stuff you're talking about is entry level tech work that draws maybe $7 or $8 bucks an hour if you're lucky. There was some guy out of Portalnd or dangerously close to there who was beating his chest over paying his help $600 and $800 a week. What he forgot to say was they are probably working 60 hours+ a week to get it and they're doing the job of four other people. Screw that. If I'm going to work that hard, and I do, I'm working for myself! Since I've been retired from radio I've received two legitimate offers from two different broadcast concerns both on air and for more than I was making when I retired. I wouldn't give up what I have now for any radio job. They can't come close to paying me what I'm making now.

I will always love radio. It will continually change. It is the way of things. But I'm nobody's bitch boy.
 
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