Signal Overlap Question...

[szorn]

How can WTNR in Holland, MI at 94.5 (50,000 watts) and WCEN in Hemlock, MI at 94.5 (100,000 watts) not interfere with each other MAJORLY in and around the Grand Rapids/Mount Pleasant area? Check out their coverage on Radio-Locator or some other place and explain how they share the same frequency. Any explanations out there? Stumbled on this and it doesn't make sense.

 

[gr8oldies]

Directional antennas maybe? I don't know how close the two cities are.<P ID="signature">______________
Soon to set the world record for recieving Nigerian scam and phising e-mails!</P>

 

[john23]

> How can WTNR in Holland, MI at 94.5 (50,000 watts) and WCEN
> in Hemlock, MI at 94.5 (100,000 watts) not interfere with
> each other MAJORLY in and around the Grand Rapids/Mount
> Pleasant area? Check out their coverage on Radio-Locator or
> some other place and explain how they share the same
> frequency. Any explanations out there? Stumbled on this
> and it doesn't make sense.
>
Their coverage maps really don't overlap all that much on radio-locator. The purple "distant signal" lines have slight overlap near Greenville, and that's pretty much the usuable signal range on FM in my experience from using those maps. For instance - I know from experience that WCEN's signal is quite bad by the time you get to Lansing to the south, and reaches to about Cadillac to the north.

 

[clichemoth]

> > How can WTNR in Holland, MI at 94.5 (50,000 watts) and
> WCEN
> > in Hemlock, MI at 94.5 (100,000 watts) not interfere with
> > each other MAJORLY in and around the Grand Rapids/Mount
> > Pleasant area? Check out their coverage on Radio-Locator
> or
> > some other place and explain how they share the same
> > frequency. Any explanations out there? Stumbled on this
> > and it doesn't make sense.
> >
> Their coverage maps really don't overlap all that much on
> radio-locator. The purple "distant signal" lines have
> slight overlap near Greenville, and that's pretty much the
> usuable signal range on FM in my experience from using those
> maps. For instance - I know from experience that WCEN's
> signal is quite bad by the time you get to Lansing to the
> south, and reaches to about Cadillac to the north.
>

Greenville does seem to be the only place where the signals would be roughly equal.

FM radios capture the strongest signal in a specific location. For most of each station's red and purple contours, they would be stronger than the other. In and around Greenville, people can probably get both just by walking around the house.

However, they still seem to be way too close. On good tropo days, it seems like they'd eat up each other's signals almost everywhere.

Is there a natural feature in the region that shields the towers from the line of sight of the other?

 

[dave73]

> Greenville does seem to be the only place where the signals
> would be roughly equal.
>
> FM radios capture the strongest signal in a specific
> location. For most of each station's red and purple
> contours, they would be stronger than the other. In and
> around Greenville, people can probably get both just by
> walking around the house.
>
> However, they still seem to be way too close. On good tropo
> days, it seems like they'd eat up each other's signals
> almost everywhere.
>
> Is there a natural feature in the region that shields the
> towers from the line of sight of the other?
>
I noticed that WTNR is a Class B station and WCEN is a Class C1 100kw @ 982ft. WCEN also has a directional pattern that's supposed to protect WTNR, but I wonder how much of a null there is. There's a possibility that both stations may have gone on the air before 1964, which in that case short-spacing was permitted. I know WHFB Benton Harbor MI on 99.9 and WRZA Park Forest IL (originally licensed to Kankakee IL) also on 99.9 are short-spaced with each other. I live on the edge of the primary contour of WRZA and on the fringe line of WHFB. I have to have my radio antenna pointed toward Peotone IL (where WRZA's tower is located) just to null out WHFB. Otherwise there's plenty of bleedover from each other. Had WRZA moved their tower when the COL was changed with ownership, then they would have lost the grandfathered short-space status as they're also short-spaced with WUSN (99.5) & WILV (100.3) in Chicago, and WJVL (also on 99.9) Janesville, WI. The station would have likely been knocked down to a Class A with maybe 3kw to 6kw. The backup is 3.5kw.

 

[dave73]

> Directional antennas maybe? I don't know how close the two
> cities are.
>
WCEN has a null toward Grand Rapids, but not sure how much of a null WCEN has. More than likely, both WCEN & WTNR went on the air before 1964, which in that case, allowed both stations to be on the air being short-spaced. WRZA Park Forest IL (originally licensed to Kankakke IL) and WHFB Benton Harbor MI (both on 99.9) both went on the air before 1964 at 50kw each, and I live in Gary Indiana. I'm on the edge of WRZA's primary contour & on the fringe line of WHFB's signal. I can tell you if I didn't have my antenna pointed toward Peotone IL (where WRZA's tower is located), I would also hear WHFB bleeding over on WRZA. I know what it's like living in an area where stations are short-spaced. In the case of WCEN & WTNR, providing the coverage is correct, they're even more short-spaced than WRZA & WHFB. But more than likely, they're (WTNR & WCEN) both pre-1964 short-spaced stations.