For anyone with technical transmitter experience or knowledge.... I live close to the tower that transmits 97.1 "The River" 100,000 watt signal. I believe that 95.5 fm comes from the same tower. Many times these signals bleed over other fm signals on radios in the house and also on portables. One particular station...94.9 "The Bull" is very often overcome by these powerful signals. Is there anything that can help correct this "bleed over" or is this common being within 5 miles of such a powerful transmitter?
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Signal question
- Thread starter kws31a
- Start date
You are correct that 95.5 is on the same tower. 106.7 used to be-it's now on 104.7's tower.
One thing I've noticed--driving underneath the high-voltage power lines that run down Pleasant Hill Road near PIB in Duluth, I often get 680 The Fan on top of any other AM signal, including WSB. I wonder if this electrical service serves the nearby 680 transmitter (off Spalding between Winters Chapel and Holcomb Bridge, http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=33.96167,+-84.26333+(WCNN-AM)&om=1 ), and if the signal is backfeeding through the power lines.
Supposedly, when they built the Northlake Tower Festival shopping center on the site of the WSB (AM, and formerly FM) stick, they had to tie the buildings and electrical into the same ground as the WSB transmitter (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=33.84389,+-84.25333+(WSB-AM)&om=1 ) to prevent arcing. Needless to say, they have a lot of RFI from WSB on the site.
One thing I've noticed--driving underneath the high-voltage power lines that run down Pleasant Hill Road near PIB in Duluth, I often get 680 The Fan on top of any other AM signal, including WSB. I wonder if this electrical service serves the nearby 680 transmitter (off Spalding between Winters Chapel and Holcomb Bridge, http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=33.96167,+-84.26333+(WCNN-AM)&om=1 ), and if the signal is backfeeding through the power lines.
Supposedly, when they built the Northlake Tower Festival shopping center on the site of the WSB (AM, and formerly FM) stick, they had to tie the buildings and electrical into the same ground as the WSB transmitter (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=33.84389,+-84.25333+(WSB-AM)&om=1 ) to prevent arcing. Needless to say, they have a lot of RFI from WSB on the site.
Then most of us are glad we didn't live around the 107.9 transmitter when it was first turned on, whose RFI problems were on the news (there are numerous posts on here already about that).
If you are having problems, I would contact the Cox Chief Engineer and ask him for assistance. There are filters that can be installed on TV's and telephones to help, but I don't know whose responsibility it is to buy them if there is a problem.
I live 10 miles from the 105.7 site on Sweat Mountain, and every once in a while if the conditions are right you can hear the audio of 105.7 faintly between 98.5 and 99.7 on a couple of clock radios.
Then on the TV side there is WPXA/14, with transmitter located on the north end of Lake Allatoona (I live on the south end, about 10-15 miles away). In the past, the RFI of channel 14 would make cable channels 65-67 unwatchable. On the flip side, you didn't even have to connect an antenna to your TV if all you watched were infomercials. That will no longer an issue come February when analog TV is shut off.
Also, I believe WUVG-TV/34 is also on that site as well. Try unplugging your cable or antenna from the back of your TV, and try channel 34 (channel 85 if you have cable). You probably will get a crystal-clear picture of Univision programming without anything attached to it. If Cox's CE is no help, you might want to give Univision's CE a call.
At least The Fan can claim their programming is electrifying! Also, the Georgia Transmission Corporation can call them asking for back rent since they are transmitting through their power lines.
If you are having problems, I would contact the Cox Chief Engineer and ask him for assistance. There are filters that can be installed on TV's and telephones to help, but I don't know whose responsibility it is to buy them if there is a problem.
I live 10 miles from the 105.7 site on Sweat Mountain, and every once in a while if the conditions are right you can hear the audio of 105.7 faintly between 98.5 and 99.7 on a couple of clock radios.
Then on the TV side there is WPXA/14, with transmitter located on the north end of Lake Allatoona (I live on the south end, about 10-15 miles away). In the past, the RFI of channel 14 would make cable channels 65-67 unwatchable. On the flip side, you didn't even have to connect an antenna to your TV if all you watched were infomercials. That will no longer an issue come February when analog TV is shut off.
Also, I believe WUVG-TV/34 is also on that site as well. Try unplugging your cable or antenna from the back of your TV, and try channel 34 (channel 85 if you have cable). You probably will get a crystal-clear picture of Univision programming without anything attached to it. If Cox's CE is no help, you might want to give Univision's CE a call.
At least The Fan can claim their programming is electrifying! Also, the Georgia Transmission Corporation can call them asking for back rent since they are transmitting through their power lines.
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IT_Guru
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ks31 said:
The quality of the receiver you are using will make a BIG difference.
The way the crow flies I used to live about 1/2 mi. from WAZX 1550 when they were in Smyrna. On a cheap radio (ie. a clock radio) I could hear splash, bleed over and desensitivity of the receiver from 1400 to 1700 on the AM band. However, on a good quality radio, I could only hear them from 1530 to 1570.
Before that when I lived in town, I was line of sight of the Westin and on a cheap radio I could hear 92.9 "all over the dial". On a good radio I could only hear them from 92.7 to 93.1.
Unfortunately the best way to help get rid of the problem is to buy a more expensive better quality radio/receiver.
Your radio is suffering from 'blanketing' interference. It's grossly overloaded by the 97.1 signal. The options are, get an outdoor antenna and point it at Atlanta, or perhaps get a better radio. When 97.1 was built, a lot of time and money was spent providing filters for people in the area. In the intervening twenty some odd years, the area has grown from rural to exurban, which makes the problem worse int hat there are more radios close to the transmitters. It is/was even worse when WYAY went on, because the physics of the two stations puts a potential signal in the middle of Channel 6's analog sound carrier. Again, quite a bit of time and money was spent correcting this in TV receivers.
It is interesting to note, the Rule which requires assistance (73.333 I think, but I might be wrong) exempts outboard television RF amplifiers and high gain antennas from the requirement.... a circumstance which covers pretty much every receiver in the blanketing area. Shamrock and Katz, the owners of the two stations, still owned up to their responsibilities and corrected the problems. What the current owners do is up to speculation.
I used an old Finco 10 element FM beam pointed towards Atlanta with excellent results in the last house, which the highway got. In the current hous, I use indoor 't' antennas, cos I'm too lazy to go up and reconnect something in the attic.
It is interesting that a certain number of the denizens of the area want to bitch about the racetracks and the radio stations. Why woukld someone buy a home in the proximity of them if they are going to be a problem? It isn't like they were hidden, the tower is visible for miles, as are the tracks. I have little sympathy for them.
It is interesting to note, the Rule which requires assistance (73.333 I think, but I might be wrong) exempts outboard television RF amplifiers and high gain antennas from the requirement.... a circumstance which covers pretty much every receiver in the blanketing area. Shamrock and Katz, the owners of the two stations, still owned up to their responsibilities and corrected the problems. What the current owners do is up to speculation.
I used an old Finco 10 element FM beam pointed towards Atlanta with excellent results in the last house, which the highway got. In the current hous, I use indoor 't' antennas, cos I'm too lazy to go up and reconnect something in the attic.
It is interesting that a certain number of the denizens of the area want to bitch about the racetracks and the radio stations. Why woukld someone buy a home in the proximity of them if they are going to be a problem? It isn't like they were hidden, the tower is visible for miles, as are the tracks. I have little sympathy for them.
jabba17 said:
It also depends on the gain of the transmit antenna. The 99.7 antenna on the Turner tower, at least the last one they used, has 8 bays? The more bays, the narrower the vertical beamwidth, and at that tower height, you'd be less likely to have a blanketing interference problem.
If you were in the Woodruff dorm on west campus, or in the newer ULC or 6th St. Apts., you'd probably notice blanketing problems from WREK. WREK's current antenna is 12 bays, which minimizes the problems.
99.7 on the WTBS tower ran from a six bay antenna. It's still there as a backup. Before it was moved to the Richland multistation tower, there was an additional (backup) 6 bay antenna several hundred feet below the main. This backup was built from the original main antyenna which was a ten or twelve bay. It was field modified to six bays, and the transmitter power increased to make the licensed radiated power. It was removed when the site became a backup, as a cost saving measure.
As to the nuimber of bays and signal strength, there's some potential misinformation posted. RF field intensity is exactly that - whatever the measured value is - and it doesn't really matter too much how that value was achieved. When it is achieved via multiple antenna bays as opposed to more transmitter power, the area of maximum strength thins from a sphere (for a single bay antenna) to a successively thinner disk. If the disk is oriented properly, it works quite well developing signal strength. Unfortunately, as the number of bays increases, the antenna begins to become a line radiator instead of a point radiator. In a city situation, this can exacerbate multipath. The tipping point seems to be about 6 bays, which most boradcasters take as the optimum trade between transmitter power and results.
The above refers to antennas whose bays are spaced a a wavelength apart. For different spacings, it all changers. It is fascinating to note that a couople of pieces of bent brass or copper pipe can couple inordinate amounts of energy into free space.
As to the nuimber of bays and signal strength, there's some potential misinformation posted. RF field intensity is exactly that - whatever the measured value is - and it doesn't really matter too much how that value was achieved. When it is achieved via multiple antenna bays as opposed to more transmitter power, the area of maximum strength thins from a sphere (for a single bay antenna) to a successively thinner disk. If the disk is oriented properly, it works quite well developing signal strength. Unfortunately, as the number of bays increases, the antenna begins to become a line radiator instead of a point radiator. In a city situation, this can exacerbate multipath. The tipping point seems to be about 6 bays, which most boradcasters take as the optimum trade between transmitter power and results.
The above refers to antennas whose bays are spaced a a wavelength apart. For different spacings, it all changers. It is fascinating to note that a couople of pieces of bent brass or copper pipe can couple inordinate amounts of energy into free space.
The behavior of photon emmission, the radiation of "particles" of energy, is almost as facinating as the behavior of chief engineers after their 4th shot of tequila.(Oh crap....this will get deleted......)
littlejohn said:
Which was my point. A higher gain antenna results in lower signal strength around the base of the tower. A station like WREK meets the environmental RFR guidelines only by using an antenna with a narrow vertical beamwidth. If we switched to a low-gain antenna, the pleasure orb at Insurrection on Northside Dr. would start modulating to WREK. There are lower RFR antennas with less than full spacing, but there's a trade-off of less gain.
ssnake said:
That sounds like something that would be illegal in Georgia. ;D
lfuss said:
You are correct. Around 1990, the FCC passed a rule that an FM had to be at least 1,000 feet to remain a full C (and retain its value). That was the reason WVEE built the New St. site, but their stated reason was to help WABE and WPBA. Of course, WSB-FM and WSTR signed on as tenants to conform with the FCC rule, WSB-FM coming from the WSB-TV tower and WSTR from the Peachtree Plaza.
RoddyFreeman said:
Not that it means much--could have just been free advertising--but I do remember riding past the Northlake site in the 70s, long before Tower Festival was built, and the transmitter shack read in large letters "WSB 750 KC 98.5 MC". Could WSB-FM have been on this stick before moving to WSB-TV?
One of the more interesting 80-90 upgrades was that of WKHX/WPCH/WKLS, which were on a shared antenna on the tower on Shepherd's Construction equipment yard. Rather than increase the tower height, an exercise which probably wasn't possible, they through a series of filings and remeasurement, gerrymandered the ground down a few meters, thereby making the antenna high enough above the average terrain to hold the full 'C' designation.
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