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SIGNAL STRENGTH QUESTION...

K

KODJ

It seems there are many qualified engineers on this board. Please detail the signal strengths of 103.9 and 97.5. Where are the towers located, and what is the respective wattage and coverage of each?

Thank you in advance!
 
I'm not a qualified engineer, nor do I play one on TV...but
OTOH you may want to compare those two with a typical
full-power (100 kw or so ERP) class C FM on South Mountain:

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-service-area?x=FM610513.html

Or a similar pattern plot from Radio-Locator, where the red (inside)
circle appears to approximate the FCC's estimation:

http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=KOOL&service=FM&status=L&hours=U

Not sure about his take on FMs, but I know the Old Gringo swears
by the R-L inner red circle to equate viable coverage area for AMs,
while I believe the middle circle is supposed to be the "traditional"
0.5 mv/m plot. DE: come on down and refresh us on the three
mysterious crop circles on Radio-Locator maps. :)
 
While the world awaits the white smoke coming from the Old Gringo's chimney in el Lay, Nurse Jeff and I chime in on the crop circles: KMVA & KEDJ signals tend to suck in comparison to those stations transmitting from South Mountain. Any further questions?
 
I am not The Old Gringo, but perhaps I'll do. :)

KEDJ is a class C1 station, pumping out just under 100 kilowatts - comparable to the big South Mountain stations - but from a much lower elevation (620 feet above average terrain, as compared to 1700 feet or so for South Mountain) and a less-central location, way out in Queen Creek somewhere past Mesa Gateway Airport.

KMVA is a full class C from a very high antenna - 42 kilowatts at 2785 feet - but from an even greater distance away from the population center, up on Tower Mountain south of Prescott.

The "more cacti than people" is correct in both cases: KEDJ doesn't cover well to the north or west, and has shadowing issues to the southwest because of South Mountain in the way. KMVA is good to the north, but good luck with it in Ahwatukee.

There are a handful of markets that have one, and just one, location that provides full-market coverage on FM and TV. Phoenix is one of those markets - you're on South Mountain or you're a fringe player.
 
Scott Fybush said:
KMVA is a full class C from a very high antenna - 42 kilowatts at 2785 feet - but from an even greater distance away from the population center, up on Tower Mountain south of Prescott.

The "more cacti than people" is correct in both cases: KEDJ doesn't cover well to the north or west, and has shadowing issues to the southwest because of South Mountain in the way. KMVA is good to the north, but good luck with it in Ahwatukee.
Click to expand...

The "Crown King" signals can be received more clearly on I-8 between Gila Bend and Yuma than in many locations in Phoenix due to multipath and blocking!
 
The PPM results would disagree with that statement. KKFR beats KMLE, KYOT, and KDKB in cume and isn't that far behind KTAR or KNIX. And if you look at 18-49 cume, where advertiser money is spent, KKFR beats KDKB, KOOL, and KMLE in cume. Those signals are very viable for the Phoenix metro. Oh, and KVIB is consistently top 10 18-49 in share now. Doesn't seem like a stick problem to me.
 
"Viable" and "full-market" aren't automatically synonymous. I'm not saying the rimshots - whether from the east like 103.9 or from the north like 97.5, 98.3 or 95.1 - are useless. They certainly reach large chunks of the market, enough so that if they're programmed well and promoted decently, they can indeed show in the book.

But I'm pretty sure that on my last Phoenix visit last April, I was very much within the metro when I was tuning in from a second-floor hotel room in downtown Scottsdale. And some of those northern rimshots - 95.1 in particular - might as well not have existed in my room.

The beauty of South Mountain is that there is nowhere in the market where those signals are sub-par. And I stand by my contention that there is no other site in the Phoenix market where that's true.
 
Scott Fybush said:
The beauty of South Mountain is that there is nowhere in the market where those signals are sub-par. And I stand by my contention that there is no other site in the Phoenix market where that's true.
Click to expand...

We're with Media Hut Visiting Professor Fybush on this one. When your stick is on South Mountain, that signal is 100% competitive. Anywhere else, you're rolling dice.
 
Scott Fybush said:
"Viable" and "full-market" aren't automatically synonymous. I'm not saying the rimshots - whether from the east like 103.9 or from the north like 97.5, 98.3 or 95.1 - are useless. They certainly reach large chunks of the market, enough so that if they're programmed well and promoted decently, they can indeed show in the book.

But I'm pretty sure that on my last Phoenix visit last April, I was very much within the metro when I was tuning in from a second-floor hotel room in downtown Scottsdale. And some of those northern rimshots - 95.1 in particular - might as well not have existed in my room.

The beauty of South Mountain is that there is nowhere in the market where those signals are sub-par. And I stand by my contention that there is no other site in the Phoenix market where that's true.
Click to expand...


As much as everyone loves Scottsdale - that's a small area of the metro and the Towers Mountain stations have some terrain shielding there.
 
KMLE has a backup site on Shaw Butte. Just for the sake of discussion, wouldn't that also be a great full-market location for an FM stick?
 
Shaw Butte/North Mountain is a good place for an FM stick, but not as good as South Mountain. South has line of sight to pretty much the whole valley. Shaw Butte, on the other hand, has to look past the Phoenix Mountains to get to Paradise Valley and north Scottsdale. The pair of 88.3 signals (KNAI/KPHF) that use that site have problems up that way, and I'd bet they don't get past South Mountain to Ahwatukee and Chandler very well, either.

(Conversely, Shaw Butte itself serves as something of a terrain obstacle for the South Mountain signals, but it's lower than South Mountain, so unless you're right on the backside of the mountain, it shouldn't be an issue. Anyone have any signal reports driving Thunderbird between, say, 17 and Cave Creek Road? That looks to be the area that would be most affected.)

The Shaw Butte site is also significantly more distant from the population cluster on the east side - Tempe/Mesa/Gilbert - than South Mountain is.
 
Scott Fybush said:
Anyone have any signal reports driving Thunderbird between, say, 17 and Cave Creek Road? That looks to be the area that would be most affected.)
Click to expand...

Never been a problem for me.

Only radio signal issues I've ever gotten was when heading eastbound on the Loop 101-- the portion where it curves right before the Cave Creek exit (probably because of the wall next to the freeway), but it's always that one and only spot.
 
buster2 said:
KMLE has a backup site on Shaw Butte. Just for the sake of discussion, wouldn't that also be a great full-market location for an FM stick?
Click to expand...

That used to be its main site, if I remember correctly. 92.3 was once up there as well. There is a reason why they moved to South Mountain.

Now, the White Tanks aren't that bad either. 103.5 puts a decent signal across town - except for Ahwatukee/Chandler and central Scottsdale. The Ahwatukee situation could probably be fixed with a directional on-channel booster, which is within their 60 dBu FCC map contour. However, since the use of OCB's are controversial (see the KHOT situation where the OCB interferes with the main signal in some areas), it may not ever happen.
 
oldiesfan6479 said:
Congrats to KOOL Listener Lauren for hitting the post--500 posts that is. :)
Click to expand...

And just a little over 17,000 more to equal the Old Gringo's record ;D
 
KOOL Listener Lauren said:
Thank you! And yes, tell him I'm rapidly gaining up on him!
Click to expand...

But Lovely Lauren is not nearly as verbose as our beloved Gringo.

Word count catchup will be difficult.
 
Scott Fybush said:
"But I'm pretty sure that on my last Phoenix visit last April, I was very much within the metro when I was tuning in from a second-floor hotel room in downtown Scottsdale. And some of those northern rimshots - 95.1 in particular - might as well not have existed in my room."

I am curious, what kind of receiver do you take with you on your travels? I'm sure you never go anyplace without one!
Click to expand...
 
True! The current lineup includes three of Sony's (long-discontinued) SW-1000T radio/cassette recorders and an Insignia portable HD. Looking to add one or more C. Crane Witness radio/digital recorders to the lineup pretty soon, too.
 
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