Since We Are Going Down Memory Lane What Ever Happened To.....

[Mark_Giardina]

WGVA in Geneva?

Having worked there briefly in 1974, before going to WHAM, I remember the station was staffed with live announcers and newspeople and had quite a following in Geneva and the surrounding communities. Jerry Sherwin I remember had been the morning announcer for decades.
As I understand several years ago WGVA's owner at the time purchased an FM station operating out of Geneva.

Now, correct me if I am wrong, one or both of the Kimble Brothers owns not only the stations in Geneva, but also Canandiagua, Penn Yan, and Waterloo.
Jerry Sherwin is no longer at WGVA and the station is semi-automated, running syndicated programs.

As for WSAY, I can only tell you what it was like working there after Gordon Brown died. An Ohio businessman named Lew Dickey (Father of the Cumulus Broadcasting CEO) bought 1370 AM in 1980 and proceeded to turn the French Road studios into a workable radio operation. A number of people from WHAM, including the team of Jack Slattery and George Haefner, news director Mike Morgan, and yours truly, were hired along with former WROC radio and TV newsman Dean Close, Chet Walker,( now morning host of WHAM) Tom Gaybruk, who went to work for WDKX but apparently is no longer in the business, Chuck Ingersoll, who does a jazz program on WGMC and many more people who I just can't remember their names.

Those of us hired to work for WSAY were told that the format would be similar to what WHAM once had before the owner (Bill Rust) brought in a group of people and they decided to get rid of some of the "veterans". That's another long story I can tell you someday.

With regards to WSAY, well let's say that things promised were not delivered and a large number of the original hires either left on their own in discust to work at other stations, or were fired. It wasn't a pretty picture.

You know I should write a book

 

[anoldguy]

In the early 1960's WGVA was owned by Star Broadcasting out of Rochester -Basically the Forman family. They, of course, owned the legendary WBBF and WTLB in Utica -also, an extremely successful (and under powered) top 40 station. In the mid 60's WGVA & WTLB were sold to the Struass Broadcasting Group out of NYC -WMCA (and WALL in Middletown). R. Peter Strauss had a high political agenda. He wanted to be governor. He made personal editorials on his stations. He pumped a lot of money into WTLB and WGVA. He increased their news departments. Made them top notch. He put up a new building in Utica which was desperatly needed. The old WTLB building made the stories about the WSAY building seem very tame. WGVA & WTLB took on "The Home of the GoodGuys" logo with tee-shits, contests, and "The Good Guy Picnic". Both stations got the hand me downs of equiptment from WMCA, which was great for both stations.
Both WTLB and WGVA were great sounding stations. The goal was to make them sound as close to WMCA as possible. There was even a direct line of audio to NYC so R. Peter Strauss could listen to his stations when ever he wanted. In the early 70's Strauss sold both stations, and a few years later WMCA & WALL. He gave up his desire to be governor and lately has been best known for being Monica Lewinsky's step-father. A lot of great talent has moved thru WGVA and WTLB, and I would have to say the R. Peter Strauss years were the "golden Years" for both stations.

 

[radiomike]

WGVA in Geneva?

Having worked there briefly in 1974, before going to WHAM, I remember the station was staffed with live announcers and newspeople and had quite a following in Geneva and the surrounding communities. Jerry Sherwin I remember had been the morning announcer for decades.
As I understand several years ago WGVA's owner at the time purchased an FM station operating out of Geneva.

Now, correct me if I am wrong, one or both of the Kimble Brothers owns not only the stations in Geneva, but also Canandiagua, Penn Yan, and Waterloo.
Jerry Sherwin is no longer at WGVA and the station is semi-automated, running syndicated programs.

I can give you the more recent history...When I first got to Geneva. Lou Scwartz was the owner. WGVA was still pretty local. Then an appliance company bought the station and CQ-102 (now WFLK) and The FM studios moved from rented space, to up the hill, co-locating with WGVA. Quickly, WGVA started adding more satellite programming, and even automation was used, reels and the SMG carts! However, the appliance company paid way too much money for the two stations, and they were sold. George Kimble bought WGVA, and his brother Russ bought WFLK. Russ also owns WYLF in Penn Yan. George, along with Alan Bishop, bought out WSFW-AM&FM, WCGR, WAUB, and WNYR, the latter was Bob Martin's station. He is now at WXXI, I beleive, in sales. Then they also have purchsed the station in Dundee, WFLR.
So, you have the AM stations, WGVA and WAUB, and daytimers WSFW and WCGR, all now the Finger Lakes news network, which for the most part is satellite and automated, with the exception of the morning, which is pretty much a mix of live and pre-recorded stuff. There are some other live shows, but much of it is like a WHAM clone, a lot of conservative talk. WNYR is voice tracked, except for the mornings, and so is WLLW (which is what was WSFW), Bob & Tom in the morning, and satellite or VT the rest of the time. They use Wiatt for most of their music programming. The Dundee FM, WFLR, is country, but who knows when they get their CP to move south. They do split the WFLR morning show a bit from the rest of the feeds, and at times run different things on the different AM stations, such as different sporting events, or a game on one station and not the others.
Jerry Sherwin still did an interview program in the earlier days of the Finger Lakes News Network, but no longer works for the station. You can see him many mornings at Dunkin Donuts in Geneva having coffee. George is still involved as an owner, but not day to day, as Alan is the controlling party and in town, managing and running the operation.

 

[Mark_Giardina]

WGVA in Geneva?

Having worked there briefly in 1974, before going to WHAM, I remember the station was staffed with live announcers and newspeople and had quite a following in Geneva and the surrounding communities. Jerry Sherwin I remember had been the morning announcer for decades.
As I understand several years ago WGVA's owner at the time purchased an FM station operating out of Geneva.

Now, correct me if I am wrong, one or both of the Kimble Brothers owns not only the stations in Geneva, but also Canandiagua, Penn Yan, and Waterloo.
Jerry Sherwin is no longer at WGVA and the station is semi-automated, running syndicated programs.

I can give you the more recent history...When I first got to Geneva. Lou Scwartz was the owner. WGVA was still pretty local. Then an appliance company bought the station and CQ-102 (now WFLK) and The FM studios moved from rented space, to up the hill, co-locating with WGVA. Quickly, WGVA started adding more satellite programming, and even automation was used, reels and the SMG carts! However, the appliance company paid way too much money for the two stations, and they were sold. George Kimble bought WGVA, and his brother Russ bought WFLK. Russ also owns WYLF in Penn Yan. George, along with Alan Bishop, bought out WSFW-AM&FM, WCGR, WAUB, and WNYR, the latter was Bob Martin's station. He is now at WXXI, I beleive, in sales. Then they also have purchsed the station in Dundee, WFLR.
So, you have the AM stations, WGVA and WAUB, and daytimers WSFW and WCGR, all now the Finger Lakes news network, which for the most part is satellite and automated, with the exception of the morning, which is pretty much a mix of live and pre-recorded stuff. There are some other live shows, but much of it is like a WHAM clone, a lot of conservative talk. WNYR is voice tracked, except for the mornings, and so is WLLW (which is what was WSFW), Bob & Tom in the morning, and satellite or VT the rest of the time. They use Wiatt for most of their music programming. The Dundee FM, WFLR, is country, but who knows when they get their CP to move south. They do split the WFLR morning show a bit from the rest of the feeds, and at times run different things on the different AM stations, such as different sporting events, or a game on one station and not the others.
Jerry Sherwin still did an interview program in the earlier days of the Finger Lakes News Network, but no longer works for the station. You can see him many mornings at Dunkin Donuts in Geneva having coffee. George is still involved as an owner, but not day to day, as Alan is the controlling party and in town, managing and running the operation.

I was in Geneva this past Sunday having brunch at Belhurst Castle and drove by WGVA off Routes 5 and 20. I was amazed how Geneva has grown along that stretch of highway. As for visiting the radio station, I had my family with me and I knew they would not have been interested in seeing a radio station. Besides, since it was a weekend, I doubt if anyone was inside the building.

I met Alan Bishop years ago when he was GM at WISH and he seems like a decent fellow. I've known Russ Kimble from my days at WHAM and he's a solid broadcaster. George I'm not that familar with, but I believe he and Russ did a great job of taking over after their Dad's untimely death years ago and he would have been proud of his sons' accomplishments.

As for Jerry, maybe someday I will drive back to Geneva and stop by Dunkin Donuts to see if he's there and have breakfast with him. I wonder if Jerry will remember me?
So is Jerry retired or just "hanging out?"

 

[radiomike]

Jerry is retired, and is not doing radio. I met Russ once, and don't know him too well. There was and I believe there still is, a pretty big feud between George and Russ. FYI, the WFLK studios are now in a strip plaza on 5&20. It is behind the Ling Ling, Rent-a-Center, Quiznos, and Bagels & Cakes that you see from the main road. It sits right next to the cleaners I use. John Thomas, who used to be at WGVA years ago doing news, works there. The station is also satellite most of the day, save for drive time, and they were using AP network news. There actually might have been a body there on Sunday afternoon. I have been told that there is a guy doing a live shift on the weekend afternoon, either Saturday or Sunday, on WLLW. Also, WLLW is live during PM drive with Ken Pardise.

 

[Mark_Giardina]

Jerry is retired, and is not doing radio. I met Russ once, and don't know him too well. There was and I believe there still is, a pretty big feud between George and Russ. FYI, the WFLK studios are now in a strip plaza on 5&20. It is behind the Ling Ling, Rent-a-Center, Quiznos, and Bagels & Cakes that you see from the main road. It sits right next to the cleaners I use. John Thomas, who used to be at WGVA years ago doing news, works there. The station is also satellite most of the day, save for drive time, and they were using AP network news. There actually might have been a body there on Sunday afternoon. I have been told that there is a guy doing a live shift on the weekend afternoon, either Saturday or Sunday, on WLLW. Also, WLLW is live during PM drive with Ken Pardise.

I figured that Jerry might have retired from radio. After all he was in the business for many many years. But knowing Jerry, I bet he misses broadcasting.

As for Russ and George, I wasn't aware they were playing Hatfield and McCoys. So the FM station is no longer located at the WGVA building huh? Interesting.

I remember John Thomas.

One question. Which station does better in the ratings and billing, the AM or FM?[/b]

 

[Bithead]

Mark;

We're going to have to compare notes as regards WSAY... I spent four years there following Brown's death, when Lew Dickey ((sr) owned the place.

We all got kinda screwed over when Lew decided to sell to WXXI...

 

[Mark_Giardina]

Mark;

We're going to have to compare notes as regards WSAY... I spent four years there following Brown's death, when Lew Dickey ((sr) owned the place.

We all got kinda screwed over when Lew decided to sell to WXXI...

We got screwed when we left WHAM for that place believing in the promises made to us that were never kept. Thank goodness most of us managed to land on our feet after leaving WSAY. Unfortunately a few didn't.

This is why it doesn't surprise me when I read horror stories about Cumulus Broadcasting.
Apparently the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

 

[Bithead]

Mark;

Well as you may imagine, I was pleased indeed, when Guyette, who was PD at the time, brought me over. We'd establised a good freindship over at WNYR, and when Lew brought him over, I was there a week or so afterward, as production director, and morning traffic guy. (They actually had a trailer set up overlooking the can, in the parking lot of the Brighton Hotel...)

The boost in pay was worthwhile, and the plus of course was the all-new studios...(I love those autogram boards to this day... I'll bet they're still at XXI) and it didn't hurt that I finally got to work with Slattery, and Haefner. It was nice to work with Ross Morton, again, whom I'd worked with over at WVOR, back when Bittner was PD, about 7 years before. I also re-hooked up with Gary Turner, who I'd met breifly during a tour in the 'tier, which was also nice.

In retrospect, I'm not sure WHAT went bad at that point; It certainly wasn't for lack of money spent on the place. And the sound was actually pretty good, too, for several books. Just never caught on. And Lew gave up on it.

 

[Mark_Giardina]

In retrospect, I'm not sure WHAT went bad at that point; It certainly wasn't for lack of money spent on the place. And the sound was actually pretty good, too, for several books. Just never caught on. And Lew gave up on it.

I was there for about a year from when the station started up 1980 until I left in 1981 when Mike Morgan, who had been News Director, called me up and offered me a job at WNYR/WEZO. During that span of a year I saw a plenty of things to indicate that had there been the financial resources and the promised commitment to develop that station, events would have turned out differently.

Yes money was spent to renovate the building on French Road. But remember the place under Gordon Brown had been in disrepair for many years. And while the studios were nice there were a number of incidents that occurred which indicated that the owner wasn’t about to spend the money needed to keep the station going.

One day, while working in the newsroom, I heard a knock on the back door of the building. Standing outside was a guy with a lock and chain and he informed me that he had legal permission to padlock the building because certain bills had not been paid. So I called the then General Manager on the phone informing him of this gentleman's presence. The GM, John Marshalack (sp) came out and apparently smoothed things over because the guy with the padlock left. Meanwhile I had my coat on ready to leave before I was locked inside the station.

Another incident is when some guys in a truck pulled up to the radio station and started pulling out a sewer pipe that they had installed from the building to the main sewer line for lack of payment. So as one walked up the steps to WSAY they could see this hole in the ground where the sewer pipe had been and smell the odor from the sewer. Nice welcome mat huh?

Then there was the fast-speed UPI machine in the newsroom. At the time this was state-of-the art equipment. Unfortunately the ink cartridges cost money and the news department later found out there was no funds to purchase more of these special ink cartridges. So we improvised and opened these plastic cartridges and poured ink in ourselves, otherwise we couldn't have read any wire service news stories. I'm not certain but I think that eventually the machine itself, along with UPI was pulled for lack of payment.

The one thing that sticks out in my mind was when the owner took our news car back to Ohio with him and gave it to his son. Can you imagine driving around in a station wagon with the call letters WSAY on it? Like he couldn’t buy his kid a new car so he deprived his radio news department of our own means of transportation?

So our news department was without a workable wire machine and news vehicle, a number of news directors and staff had already quit or been fired and that's when I decided it was time to get out. Oh by the way, I had been offered the News Director’s job twice, which I turned down both times. I may look stupid but I’m not dumb.

I remember after I had given my notice to the new News Director that he accused me of "abandoning ship." I informed him that I was there when the ship launched, saw the iceberg, and got into a lifeboat before the ship started sinking. And my advice to him was to do the same because within a year he would be looking for a job. My prediction came true.

Like I mentioned earlier, those of us who went from WHAM to WSAY were sold a bill of goods. We were gullible enough to believe what we were told and that was we would have a format built around Slattery and Haefner, a heavy emphasis on local news, and the financial backing to get the station off the ground until it became profitable. Well we learned a valuable lesson.

What was ironic is that 9 years after I left 1370-AM, I was working for WXXI-AM, who had purchased that frequency in 1984. And while the station’s operation moved from French Road to State Street, it always struck me as ironic especially since one former colleague once said to me, “you’ll be back someday.” She proved to be right, in a sense.

 

[Bithead]

Yeah, I heard about some of that, but never saw much of it for the time I was there.
The fast speed machine was still there and was still buzzing away, but was gone about three weeks afterward.

If I recall Morgan went to WYSL shortly after this.

The ND we ended up with was John Winthrop, who as it turned out was pretty good in the role.. I gather that suprised a lot of folks. He got replaced about a year later with someone whose name I don't recall...and who, frankly, I was less than impressed with. So was the rest of the news crew.

Some of the other folks who wandered through the place, were Joe Dean, who some of you folks might remmeber from BBF. Ray Laws did a weekend program for us, too, which I produced. Oogie Carmichael was another. Of course Jay LaVine was there, (He later went to Toledo on the Dickey plan) Tommy Noonan, Bruno Snyders on Sports, etc. Bill Flynn, Lars Hanson, John McDonald, who I'd worked with for a while over at WNYR/WEZO. John died a few years back, now. Oogie died many years ago, back about 86 or so. And of course I've already mentioned Guyette. All in all some real radio people.

 

[Mark_Giardina]

If I recall Morgan went to WYSL shortly after this.

No Morgan landed as ND at WNYR-WEZO after leaving WSAY. I know that for a fact because he hired me in 1981 to work with him. In fact he hired me for WHAM , WSAY and WNYR-WEZO...so you might say the guy was my mentor.

Morgan went to work for Bob Savage's station after leaving WNYR in the mid 80s. I believe he's been retired from radio for years but is active in the Chorus of the Genesee and Barbershop music.

 

[Bithead]

Well, if THAT's true we must have passed each other on our way to the new positions. I knew Goodridge (WNYR PD at the time) was looking to replace Bill Brady, at the time I left, so it makes sense. Jeff left the station not long after.. a year or two. Last I knew, he was a PD for an 'inspirational' station in one of the bigger southern cities, I forget where. That would have been a book or three after WRTK went country. Apparently, he saw the writing on the wall with the BEE coming online.

Jeff was actually a great guy to work for.

 

[Mark_Giardina]

Well, if THAT's true we must have passed each other on our way to the new positions. I knew Goodridge (WNYR PD at the time) was looking to replace Bill Brady, at the time I left, so it makes sense. Jeff left the station not long after.. a year or two. Last I knew, he was a PD for an 'inspirational' station in one of the bigger southern cities, I forget where. That would have been a book or three after WRTK went country. Apparently, he saw the writing on the wall with the BEE coming online.

Jeff was actually a great guy to work for.

Jeff is out of the (broadcasting) business altogether and has been for a while. Jeff was PD when I started at WNYR in 1981 and left for a while, replaced by Joe Riley, aka Bobby Hatfield.

Hatfield's demise as PD came about when the GM of WNYR discovered that, while still working for WNYR, Hatfield had agreed months before to become PD of an FM station that he planned to switch to a country format to compete against WNYR. While still employed at WNYR, Hatfield proceeded to "tinker" with WNYR's format and news operation.

While there are those who praise Hatfield's performance as a PD I think the guy is a Benedict Arnold. If you want to leave one station for another, fine that's your right. But meanwhile don't attempt to sabotage the station you're working at knowing full well that you plan to compete against it in the future. And just for the record his FM country station didn't last very long against WNYR, so there is some justice left in the world.

Anyways Goodridge came back as PD of WNYR and unfortunately he went from a good friend to someone I thought less of after a certain sales manager at the station became General Manager. I can not forgive either one of them for the shoddy treatment they showed me when my Father died in 1987 and they bemoaned the fact that I took a week off to go to Florida for his funeral and came back to Rochester to settle his estate. At the time I had accumulated 6 years of sick time, plus had vacation and personal leave coming. It's not like I was cheating either one of them out of anything.

The GM, who was later fired, is now some big shot executive at Entercom. That speaks volumes of a company that would hire that snake in the grass.

 

[Rmiller]

I worked at WGVA from 77- early 80, what colorful case of charactors. WKRP had nothing on this group. Adult comtempory format with DJs Danny Berhannon (commuted from Elmira), Dave Ciazza, John Thomas (photo copied his money), Rich Miller (portions of the radio program pre recorded for entry in the Smithsoniam Institude of Insanity), Rick (he didn't want his last name revealed) local news (Marge Banner, Richard Block, Tom Gaybruk, Jim Miranda, Fran); high school sports (Larry Fitch). Station went 24 hours during this time airing Larry King overnight (Andrea Lee at the controls). GM Donald Rich (also owned Coffee Concepts) wanted to be known as 124 -WGVA instead of 1240-WGVA. We would be the 1, 24 hours a day. Didn't catch on too well.

Remember the VW bus used for remotes (and John Thomas's concert ride), building a target in a downtown parking lot for SkyLab to crash into, Bill Cram car ads (never could please the guy), the local Gospel church service recorded and played back on a consumer cassette machine, crazy Mike the stereo-typical Italian sales rep, the logo witht he little microphone man, St Patrick's Day remotes at DeSales HS, and let's not forget our lovely secretary Roxanne.

 

[Paul_Warren]

We got screwed when we left WHAM for that place believing in the promises made to us that were never kept. Thank goodness most of us managed to land on our feet after leaving WSAY. Unfortunately a few didn't...

Mark, the purchase of WSAY by Lew, Sr. was financed at 21% if I recall correctly, which was the going rate at the time. Houses could only be bought with balloon mortgages with balances which increased even while you were making payments, on the premise that in a couple years when sanity returned to the market, everybody would refinance.

Lew certainly had unrealistic expectations, no doubt based in part on Luther's advice, but the biggest issue was the station peaked at a 4.3 12+, and could not keep servicing the debt long enough for rates to come down and allow refinancing.

How fortunate for Lew, Jr. to learn the lesson from his dad about taking on excessive debt, helping him avoid the same mistake at Cumulus years later.

(cough - cough)

 

[therealjm12]

21%!
Wow, that help explains how our business leaders got us into the mess we're in now.

 

[aaronread]

My info about WGVA/FLRG is only as current as May 2011, and I never worked there but was friends/colleagues with several people who did...but here goes:

Alan Bishop and Russ Kimble (I think it's Russ...I always mix Russ and George up, having never met either in person) own the Finger Lakes Radio Group, which includes a giant hodgepodge of stations across the entire region these days:

WGVA / W241AW Geneva + WAUB / W251AG Auburn. These are the news stations of the FLRG. They are 100% live in the mornings with Ted Baker and Greg Cotterill in the Geneva studios (right next to the WGVA tower), and Erik Sorenson in the Auburn studios, right next to the WAUB towers. AFAIK they're syndicated talk the rest of the day, although they have local newscasts and a fair amount of local sportscasts.

WNYR FM is also live in the mornings, voicetracked music (maybe some satellite?) the rest of the day. Also based out of the Geneva studios, but the transmitter is near Romulus; WGVA's FM translator is on the same tower.

WLLW "The Wall" is either completely automated or close to it...I think. IIRC that's the station that runs Bob & Tom in the mornings and classic rock the rest of the day. There's a translator (W242AB) on West Hill down in Ithaca, too. Like WNYR, the studios are based in Geneva...but the transmitter's up in Clyde.

WFLR in Dundee is an interesting beast; there's the 1570AM signal but it's not promoted much; they rely more on the two translators: W245BL in Branchport and the hefty W270BY for both Dundee and Watkins Glen. There's some interaction with the Geneva studios but for the most part it's run out of Dundee. It's mostly automated country but there's a lot of local inserts.

WFLK is a recent addition to the FLRG; Russ bought off of George (I think George still owns 850AM out of Penn Yan but that's it now) two years ago and moved its operations up 5&20 to the Geneva cluster (the studios were next door to the Domino's a 1/2 mile down the street). Tower is still the same tower right off 5&20 in Geneva. The format was tweaked slightly be to be more "hot country", and eventually WCGR AM (and, more importantly, it's hefty translator W283CF) in Canandaigua were switched to relay WFLK, too (WCGR had been a simulcast of WGVA in the mornings and then automated oldies the rest of the day). I don't know if WFLK has any local hours, like in the AM. I vaguely remember that some were in the works so maybe that's started by now.

And then there's Z95 WFIZ which is entirely down in Ithaca; studios and offices. IIRC the transmitter's on Connecticut Hill but they have a local translator in-town. I rarely heard it since I lived in the northern Finger Lakes, but IIRC it's a Top40 station with a local morning show and I think a local afternoon show, too. Rest is automated. I know it came on the scene and immediately started kicking ass and taking names in the ratings.

As you might've noticed, the FLRG has heavily leveraged the ability to relay AM stations on FM translators. All four of their AM's have at least one FM translator these days. FWIW, I will add that the preponderance of translators in the Finger Lakes is not as "evil" as one might expect. The terrain is a real pain in the neck there; it's flat up north, near-mountainous down south, and ALL the frickin' population centers are alongside the lakes...which were carved by glaciers and thus the towns sit down in steep valleys. It's impossible for an FM station to cover a lot of ground AND cover the population centers without employing fill-in translators.

I should point out, even the stations that are mostly automated still get a lot of local inserts...news, weather, sports news and live sportscasts, etc...by the FLRG. They take their obligations to local service pretty seriously. I didn't always agree with Alan's decisions, and I admit I never really liked the stranglehold the FLRG had on most of the local radio in the Finger Lakes...but I never questioned Alan's commitment to the region, nor his love of radio. Heck, he was one of the guys on those "Pirate Radio" boats off the coast of the UK back in the 60's. ;D

Oh, FWIW, the FLRG doesn't own WSFW 1110AM anyone; they traded it to a religious broadcaster for a translator. Until it was traded, WSFW AM was the "Finger Lakes Visitors Channel", a TIS-like loop of local information...a clever idea that just never really caught on.

 

[Element9]

I didn't always agree with Alan's decisions, and I admit I never really liked the stranglehold the FLRG had on most of the local radio in the Finger Lakes...but I never questioned Alan's commitment to the region, nor his love of radio. Heck, he was one of the guys on those "Pirate Radio" boats off the coast of the UK back in the 60's.

How'd that happen? Must have been one of the youngest blokes on the boat. Word is he lives in Fairport, graduated Syracuse in '82. Unless it was his pops. BTW, does reviving a nearly six year old thread qualify as some kind of record for this board?

 

[therealjm12]

You have George & Russ Kimball mixed up. You have it in reverse.