Singing "Hit the Road Jack" in Market #1?

[JustPastBuffalo]

Readers, posters and radio junkies may want to check the NYC Board for the latest rumor and commentary regarding the possible return of Oldies-Classic Hits on WCBS-FM. Never a dull moment in the Big Apple.


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And to "TheRealJM12," thanks for the vote of confidence, but at last count there were 327 qualified candidates in line ahead of me. I'm content where I am. Buffalo's my home.

 

[therealjm12]

And to "TheRealJM12," thanks for the vote of confidence, but at last count there were 327 qualified candidates in line ahead of me. I'm content where I am. Buffalo's my home.

That's what I figured. But if the powers that be listened to you or the other 326 qualified canidates, instead of nearsighted media buyers and accountants they would have a succesful "oldies" operation. I hope they have success anyhow. A successful oldies based operation in the Big Apple would have a positive effect on the rest of the country.
I am practical about it. I know Dion & the Belmonts ain't gonna cut it in N. Y. C. It would have to be C. C. R., Springsteen, and Bob Seger.

 

[ThePickleReport]

Some version of oldies will be back in NYC on Thursday afternoon! I'm sure someone there will post a sample hour so we can see what qualifies as "oldies" these days.

 

[Bob1370]

Re: Singing "Hit the Road Jack" in Market #1? Any impact in Buffalo?

Well, it's now official, CBS-FM is blowing up "Jack" Thursday and bringing back 1964-88 oldies, with Dan Taylor (mornings), Bob Shannon (middays) and Broadway Bill Lee (afternoons) as the core of the weekday personality lineup. Jack had cost them half their audience and over 60% of their annual billing and provided them with only modest cost savings by comparison.

Does this mean Jack is also likely to be written off elsewhere? CBS no longer owns WBUF/92.9, but the failure of Jack in Market 1 is sure to have repercussions in other markets where it's been on signals that seem to be underperforming their potential, including Buffalo. If it does make Regent rethink what it's doing with that big signal, what should be their next move?

 

[x13thfloorrand]

A performance Question

Not performance like Mike Ditka hawking "Levitra", but ratings performance

While Jack has been lamented for it's lack of live personaities, the board has suggested it's pulled decent numbers strictly on content.
It aint the days of 22 shares w/Howard Stern, but it's not horrible either. At the same time, when you change, you're looking for progress and Jack-92.9 been stuck at the same ratings zone for some time

Both the Jack and the "Free" have bombed horribly in the Big Apple and will clearly guide, but not move other station direction in other markets.

But bob1370 has some good points on under-performing not only ratings, but billing. No 1 million/year from WECK means more money could be nice

Options:
1: New Format
2: Modify existing (maybe bring in morning show on Jack)
3: Previous popular format
4: Kill two stones w/one bird, and make an oldies-standards station

 

[raymond_shaw]

Now that Oldies is back in New York, how about Buffalo and Rochester? WSEN in Syracuse stills gets pretty impressive numbers with a good mix of late 60s, 70s and a few 80s..and with live jocks(and a pretty nice sized playlist - lots of "forgotten favorites").

Also, IMHO the idea that 54+ is not a good advertising buy is no longer applicable. Baby boomers still represent the largest core of the population and some actually have some spending money. I'll be cashing in my Roth IRA in a few years - investments are doing pretty good. Maybe I'll treat myself to a nice car, vacation, etc. Radio advertising may persuade me a little on how to spend my money...if not me, there's other boomers with investments, pensions, etc. - and there's lots of us.

 

[Cary Pall]

It would be a great thing to see the BBF callsign back on some form of classic hits/oldies in Rochester. And, as for CBS-FM, I'm just glad my old Pittsburgh buddy Don Bombard aka Bob Shannon has his job back!

Jim Pastrick...thanks for the kind words elsewhere on the board. You are one of the great pros and I am a fan!

 

[JustPastBuffalo]

Cary, your words are gratefully appreciated. I'm a fan of you as well, from your success at WTLB, WBBF, WXLO, 13-Q and WMMO. Outstanding radio! It's good to read your thoughtful comments on these boards.

 

[Radknowski]

Does this mean Jack is also likely to be written off elsewhere? CBS no longer owns WBUF/92.9, but the failure of Jack in Market 1 is sure to have repercussions in other markets where it's been on signals that seem to be underperforming their potential, including Buffalo. If it does make Regent rethink what it's doing with that big signal, what should be their next move?

As noted, other posters more knowledgeable than I insist that Buffalo Jack is doing well and more than holding its own in revenue. The question may be, "Could it be doing better with a live airstaff?"

Toronto Jack was running "jockless and thoughtless" and looked like it was on the ropes until it re-invested in live personalities. Buffalo Jack promoted heavily on TV during the Spring book and it will be quite interesting to see how well it does. It could very well be that the Regent braintrust moves it to the next level by hiring a local morning show that gives it a sense of personality while still maintaining a music intensive approach.

Sean Ross of Edison Research has written an interesting commentary about NYC Jack and the format in general.

 

[Yeziknoradio]

As noted, other posters more knowledgeable than I insist that Buffalo Jack is doing well and more than holding its own in revenue. The question may be, "Could it be doing better with a live airstaff?"

Toronto Jack was running "jockless and thoughtless" and looked like it was on the ropes until it re-invested in live personalities. Buffalo Jack promoted heavily on TV during the Spring book and it will be quite interesting to see how well it does. It could very well be that the Regent braintrust moves it to the next level by hiring a local morning show that gives it a sense of personality while still maintaining a music intensive approach.

Sean Ross of Edison Research has written an interesting commentary about NYC Jack and the format in general.

Also, keep on mind that the morning show for Toronto's Jack came from a smaller market.
They may or may not be recieving the top dollar pay that Mad dog and Billie earn down the dial at Mix 999.
It may just be two (very good) radio talents that are merely pleased to be in a bigger market, regardless of pay. (slightly higher than they were recieving, respectfully.)
Ben&Kerry are very good, but they're also not a team that came from Vancouver or Calgary or even a station down the dial in the same market, so it's not like Toronto's Jack had to outbid a major contract...

Jack Buffalo can't do the same...wouldn't Buffalo's Jack be kinda like working for the station Ben&Kerry came from?
The Buffalo market is afterall, market 50 something today...unlike the case with Toronto being a major market station.

 

[Mike Sheridan]

The problem with Jack is the format is fine for awhile kinda different but after the new wears off it's like listening to someone elses iPod.

Seems like Jocks used to do a better job selling the music which is why most people turn on a music station in the first place. Programmers have filled the air with liner cards and station slogans. It seems like the talk time would be better spent by selling the music instead. I rarely hear that much talk about songs. Even if they are old songs you've heard 10,000 times you should be able to come up with some small tid bit about the song or the artist once in awhile. Nobody seems to talk about the music much at all anymore.

What do you think?

 

[Philip_Airtime]

The problem with Jack is the format is fine for awhile kinda different but after the new wears off it's like listening to someone elses iPod.

Seems like Jocks used to do a better job selling the music which is why most people turn on a music station in the first place. Programmers have filled the air with liner cards and station slogans. It seems like the talk time would be better spent by selling the music instead. I rarely hear that much talk about songs. Even if they are old songs you've heard 10,000 times you should be able to come up with some small tid bit about the song or the artist once in awhile. Nobody seems to talk about the music much at all anymore.

What do you think?

Well, that is exactly what the Lake does. That station takes a lot of heat on this board -- its presentation is boring, the lapping waves, the signal isn't good, etc. But the station's hosts do exactly what you're addressing, Mike. They talk about the music.

 

[SirRoxalot]

Forgive Me, I Can't Help Myself...

Well, that is exactly what the Lake does. That station takes a lot of heat on this board -- its presentation is boring, the lapping waves, the signal isn't good, etc. But the station's hosts do exactly what you're addressing, Mike. They talk about the music.

I agree that the jocks on The Lake talk about the music, which I find enlightening and entertaining. That is more than offset by the lame liners, annoying sound effects, and stilted delivery. I'd prefer to have that content presented in a more entertaining and conversational way, with a little more life in the voices.

This is not a knock on the personnel. They're capable of much more. This is a knock on the programming, which hearkens back to the days of stoners sitting around with cassette recorders plugged into their stereos so they could create cassettes with their favorite music instead of buying albums. The gap between songs has no other rational explanation.

Even it you wish to avoid talking over the music, which may or may not be a plus, a well-execute segue is far more entertaining than listening to music fade to the point where you can hear the mic open, and plainly hear the announcer taking a breath before they begin to speak.

The Lake could be a much better radio station with a little updating and tailoring for this market.

I also agree that there is precious little talk about the music on other stations. It's gotten to the point on some stations that Mr./Ms. Goodvoice gets more exposure than the local jock. The local jock has to be creative in fitting music info in amidst the "must run" liners & positioning statements.

 

[ThePickleReport]

Re: Forgive Me, I Can't Help Myself...

I agree that the jocks on The Lake talk about the music, which I find enlightening and entertaining. That is more than offset by the lame liners, annoying sound effects, and stilted delivery. I'd prefer to have that content presented in a more entertaining and conversational way, with a little more life in the voices.

EXACTLY.

I'd like to hear a little more ad-lib talk about the music. Sometimes it sounds like they're reading a trivial pursuit game card. I'd bet if you are a die-hard music fan and/or collector like me all you have to do is hold up an album cover and I can tell you something about the record or the making of it.

Oh yeah, we don't have album covers anymore do we............

 

[Element9]

What I hear more of these days, when I hear it, is commentary about bands, groups and artists more than commentary about songs and music.

When it comes to artist information, 97 Rock's JP comes through quite nicely with on his midday show. Anita West also, although she has a tendancy to sound a bit self-important and verbose. Surprised none of the radio mavens on this board haven't mentioned her Sunday blues show on WBFO.

On the other end of the spectrum, WYRK offers info on country artists.

I concur with previous posters' comments regarding The Lake's music information sounding scripted and stilted. But after three years of the same, that should be no surprise, the Lake being what it is.

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[Bob1370]

Re: Singing "Hit the Road Jack" in Market #1--what does it mean for Western NY?

Getting back to what Jack should do next, WCBS-FM as it relaunched today is a model in two ways. First, it defined the target audience it wanted (people born between the early 1950s and late 1970s, who have a surprisingly large amount of music in common) and built its music library around a whole slew of songs they like. Then it hired a lineup of familiar and well-liked voices with a lot of positive history in the market to present it. In CBS-FM's case, that lineup turned out to be CBS-FM veterans Dan Taylor in mornings and Bob Shannon middays, WKTU alum Broadway Bill Lee in afternoons, former WNEW-FM and WKTU jock Joe Causi in evenings, and Jeff Mazzei overnights. (Weekend lineup is still TBA and maybe still TBD; other format shifts have launched with less complete staffing than this, and sometimes no initial staffing at all, so that's not as big a deal as you might think.)

What may block WBUF from reinventing itself precisely the same way, is that two other stations, WHTT and WTSS, are covering some of the territory that WCBS-FM has to itself down in New York. Both HTT and Star go after the same target audience and play some 1965-89 music (HTT much more than Star) together with significant amounts of relatively current or recurrent post-1990 music that CBS would never play (Star far more than HTT). So maybe while there is still an opening for a more gold-heavy personality radio station in Buffalo, it's a smaller opening than the big hole in the New York market that WCBS-FM is starting to exploit.

In Rochester, meanwhile, the Jack clone at 93.3 has gotten traction only during its live morning drive show, because of the same issues that limit Jack everywhere (lack of live personalities in most dayparts to tie it all together) plus some signal issues which can't be readily resolved. Rochester has a BIG opening for a personality greatest-hits station like the new WCBS-FM. The best candidate for that format would be the underperforming 100.5 signal.

 

[SirRoxalot]

CBS-ification of 92.9?

The biggest block to WBUF reinventing itself in CBS-FM's likeness is that a station that good would butcher one of their own cash cows - WJYE.

If the latest trends didn't show that WHTT was giving WJYE serious angina - if not downright cardiac arrest - I'd say that 'HTT was a prime candidate for the CBS-FM treatment. In fact, I think that CBS-FM sounds a lot like WHTT did about a year ago.

WBUF doesn't have the history that CBS-FM brought to the table, and sure doesn't have the pool of local personalities that CBS-FM had to draw from. Sure, there's Dan Neaverth, and apparently Harv Moore (haven't heard a whisper of him on WHTT since Val took over PM Drive), but they'd erode the already failing morning and mid-day shows on WJYE even more. The net gain would be less than zero.

 

[Koss4AA]

Seems like Jocks used to do a better job selling the music which is why most people turn on a music station in the first place. Programmers have filled the air with liner cards and station slogans. It seems like the talk time would be better spent by selling the music instead. I rarely hear that much talk about songs. Even if they are old songs you've heard 10,000 times you should be able to come up with some small tid bit about the song or the artist once in awhile. Nobody seems to talk about the music much at all anymore.

BRILLIANT! THIS is what I've been preaching to airstaff for years. Some jocks seem to not be as good at doing this as others (some can't do it well at all), some don't even buy into it, preferring those great "showprep stories" that no one cares about, or artist info (fine, but cold, factual and non-emotional). SELLING a song is SOOOO important, people, if you're on the air, believe this. It's ESPECIALLY important when you are playing NEW songs. Why should a listener, upon hearing unknown notes from a new song, stick around and give the unknown song 3-4 minutes? If you SELL it and they CONNECT emotionally, they WILL give it a chance. Not if you say "here's a new one from XXX on WXYZ."

PS - I'm a HUGE believer in the selling of music. But I DO program liner cards, and make no apologies. They are important commercials for the radio station, and need to be programmed much as music does, for proper rotation, to stop repitition, etc. They are a SMALL part of any hour. I have found, though, that jocks use this as an excuse to do nothing else.. "oh, I'm nothing but a liner jock". NO....you have EVERY opportunity to be a personality AROUND this small part of the hour. Don't be lazy

Why do I never hear the complaint from jocks that they are "nothing more than a commercial jockey"? They're more that, than a liner-card jock, at any station.

 

[Mike Sheridan]

Seems like Jocks used to do a better job selling the music which is why most people turn on a music station in the first place. Programmers have filled the air with liner cards and station slogans. It seems like the talk time would be better spent by selling the music instead. I rarely hear that much talk about songs. Even if they are old songs you've heard 10,000 times you should be able to come up with some small tid bit about the song or the artist once in awhile. Nobody seems to talk about the music much at all anymore.

BRILLIANT! THIS is what I've been preaching to airstaff for years. Some jocks seem to not be as good at doing this as others (some can't do it well at all), some don't even buy into it, preferring those great "showprep stories" that no one cares about, or artist info (fine, but cold, factual and non-emotional). SELLING a song is SOOOO important, people, if you're on the air, believe this. It's ESPECIALLY important when you are playing NEW songs. Why should a listener, upon hearing unknown notes from a new song, stick around and give the unknown song 3-4 minutes? If you SELL it and they CONNECT emotionally, they WILL give it a chance. Not if you say "here's a new one from XXX on WXYZ."

PS - I'm a HUGE believer in the selling of music. But I DO program liner cards, and make no apologies. They are important commercials for the radio station, and need to be programmed much as music does, for proper rotation, to stop repitition, etc. They are a SMALL part of any hour. I have found, though, that jocks use this as an excuse to do nothing else.. "oh, I'm nothing but a liner jock". NO....you have EVERY opportunity to be a personality AROUND this small part of the hour. Don't be lazy

Why do I never hear the complaint from jocks that they are "nothing more than a commercial jockey"? They're more that, than a liner-card jock, at any station.

Lazy? I don't think so. They really don't want us to say any more that K-108 Always the most cool songs for your weekend that was (baksell last song in set) another long set of cool songs, next (after 7 spots but we don't say that) on K-108! That's pretty much it. I break the rule once in awhile.A day or two ago I did slip in a mention that the Bee Gees were going to be on Biography after playing one of their songs.

We get to backsell 3 songs over a donut at :12 during a sweep. The other day I had, "I'm Comin' Out" by Diana Ross, George Michael & Elton John doing "Don't let The Sun Go Down on Me" and another song.....seems like there was a funny line there but I had to leave it alone!

 

[Element9]

Koss and Mike, you boys make some good points. Good jocks are NOT lazy. How many talk slots are there in any one given hour in, say afternoon drive. Rox says 4 or 5. I'd have thought it would be more than that. But let's say it IS four or five... not much you can do with those scheduled liners and promos, but to "enact" them with enthusiasm (and humor), localize them and all the while try to fit artist and title into the talkover without walking on the vocal. All this is 14 seconds. The pros make this sound natural... those who are lazy or can't do it (or don't show up) don't last long.

BTW Mike, it was probably a good idea on your part NOT to have added anything more to that Elton John-George Michael backsell... most listeners "don't get it" the first time. It's like they have to hear stuff repeated. In the old days, personality jocks could massage a bit over three, four or five songs to wring everything they could out of it. They also had more time and the freedom to stop down the music. These days, fugidaboudit! Plus, no matter how good the processing and boardwork is at your station, intricate stuff like that is usually lost on 90% of the audience. Even the P-1's who might pay more attention don't seem to get it. At least, that's what they tell me.

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