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Single Edits vs Album Versions

A

ARDONAVINDA

Guest
Which do you prefer?
Reading the old thread about the mumbled lyrics in Chicago's "Does Anybody Really Know What Time It is" made me think of something so I thought I'd post it.
For the last 20 years of the "Oldies" format most stations have always played the album version of their hit singles. Three Dog Night's souped up version of "Joy To The World" with the heavy electric guitar & the wurlitzer electric piano, which until about 2002 was only heard if you played the ABC Dunhill 45. But T-40 stations in 1971 were playing that 45 so that was the version we grew to know. Or their single edit of "Old Fashioned Love Song" with the whistling break towards the end, who remembers that? But when cd's came out 20 years ago as did the Oldies formats started getting big only the album versions were being re-mastered onto cd, they didn't go back and re release the single mixes. Maybe it was harder to do at that time I don't know for sure, but that is why Oldies stations didn't really play the politically correct versions for years, and some still don't know any better, it only takes an Oldies guru like myself to know the difference. I recently was music director at a station in TN that re-created Music Radio WLS, we called ours Music Radio WLSQ, and I tried to be as politically correct as I could, if I couldn't find the single edit on cd, I would resort to re equalizing and cleaning up my original 7" single version. Some others like that are...Blood Sweat & Tears "Spinning Wheel" original 45 edit had an electric guitar solo in it instead of the long horn solo, and their "And When I Die" 7" did not have the cowboy "Yea Haw" in it. "Beginnings" by Chicago was much shorter, which is why I think for years you never heard that song on Oldies because the album version on all the cd's is over 6 minutes long! No programmer wants that unless it's the Beatles. Five Man Electrical Band didn't have that long intro on the original 45 version of "Signs" I edit that intro out to the electric piano chord that starts off the 45 version. 45 versions of Yes' "Roundabout" or Foghat's "Slow Ride" are only 3 minutes in length unlike their long 7 to 8 min. album versions. Steely Dan original 45 edits are next to impossible to find on cd, I just re-equed my 45 versions for our station. These are example that I can think of. Feel free to add more that you know of to this post. Thought it might be fun to see what we can remember.
 
Personally, I prefer the single or promo edits (in most cases) to the album versions only because my own webcast attempts to capture the time capsule of when these songs were on the radio. A great deal of my single/promo edits are custom restores of vintage vinyl since it's somewhat rare to find them on CD. Hell, I buy more vinyl now than I did as a kid!

There are some promo edits I would never play. The short versions of McLean's American Pie or Derek and the Domino's Layla come to mind. Those are classics that just shouldn't have been edited.

Some edits I have recreated when needed such as a few "custom" station edits that were aired in the day on stations like New York's WABC and WNBC ... thanks to unscoped airchecks for reference.

I will get an on-occasion "complaint" about a single or promo edit - usually when the album cut has lyrics that you would had normally have on FM. Some folks get it, others don't. Then I get the emails asking where did I get a single edit of such and such. Like the guy in the Calgon commerical, I tell 'em it's an "ancient Chinese secret".
 
ARDONAVINDA said:
Which do you prefer?
Reading the old thread about the mumbled lyrics in Chicago's "Does Anybody Really Know What Time It is" made me think of something so I thought I'd post it.
For the last 20 years of the "Oldies" format most stations have always played the album version of their hit singles. Three Dog Night's souped up version of "Joy To The World" with the heavy electric guitar & the wurlitzer electric piano, which until about 2002 was only heard if you played the ABC Dunhill 45. But T-40 stations in 1971 were playing that 45 so that was the version we grew to know. Or their single edit of "Old Fashioned Love Song" with the whistling break towards the end, who remembers that? But when cd's came out 20 years ago as did the Oldies formats started getting big only the album versions were being re-mastered onto cd, they didn't go back and re release the single mixes. Maybe it was harder to do at that time I don't know for sure, but that is why Oldies stations didn't really play the politically correct versions for years, and some still don't know any better, it only takes an Oldies guru like myself to know the difference. I recently was music director at a station in TN that re-created Music Radio WLS, we called ours Music Radio WLSQ, and I tried to be as politically correct as I could, if I couldn't find the single edit on cd, I would resort to re equalizing and cleaning up my original 7" single version. Some others like that are...Blood Sweat & Tears "Spinning Wheel" original 45 edit had an electric guitar solo in it instead of the long horn solo, and their "And When I Die" 7" did not have the cowboy "Yea Haw" in it. "Beginnings" by Chicago was much shorter, which is why I think for years you never heard that song on Oldies because the album version on all the cd's is over 6 minutes long! No programmer wants that unless it's the Beatles. Five Man Electrical Band didn't have that long intro on the original 45 version of "Signs" I edit that intro out to the electric piano chord that starts off the 45 version. 45 versions of Yes' "Roundabout" or Foghat's "Slow Ride" are only 3 minutes in length unlike their long 7 to 8 min. album versions. Steely Dan original 45 edits are next to impossible to find on cd, I just re-equed my 45 versions for our station. These are example that I can think of. Feel free to add more that you know of to this post. Thought it might be fun to see what we can remember.
Click to expand...


The question opens up a whole new discussion about who radio should program to..............listeners who grew up with Top 40 radio or listeners who grew up listing to "oldies" radio. I prefer Top 40 radio.
 
TheFonz said:
The question opens up a whole new discussion about who radio should program to..............listeners who grew up with Top 40 radio or listeners who grew up listing to "oldies" radio. I prefer Top 40 radio.
Click to expand...

The only problem is that the album versions/remastered versions of these songs are what's been played on the air (and what you'd find if you bought the CD) for so long that they've become the de facto "correct version". Play the original hit single and it will sound "odd" to most listeners, not having been heard it for 30+ years. Ditto for any dj-only edits. Too bad, when I programmed an oldies station back in the 80s I made every effort to play the hit single (or radio-only edit).

The OP mentioned a couple of 3 Dog Night songs. Unfortunately, the masters for all ABC-Dunhill single mixes got tossed back in the 70s. They're gone. All that's left are the album versions (and ABC/Dunhill was one of the most notorious labels for the single and album versions being very different mixes). You'd have to hunt down a clean copy of the 45 to get that version, and of course it would be in mono.
 
Oldbones said:
... Unfortunately, the masters for all ABC-Dunhill single mixes got tossed back in the 70s. They're gone. All that's left are the album versions (and ABC/Dunhill was one of the most notorious labels for the single and album versions being very different mixes).
Click to expand...

Unfortunately this is common for other labels as well. Perhaps the masters aren't "lost" but they are never pulled when "greatest hits" compilations are released again and again. There are many artists whose original versions hadn't been released since their original appearance.

An example is odd tracks is Barry Manilow's "Ready To Take A Chance Again" - all his greatest hits CDs all have the mono mix. The stereo mix (which was pressed on the 45 single) is part of the "Foul Play" soundtrack LP master and unless they ever both to pull that tape it will never appear in stereo on a GH comp. There are many similar issues with Top 40 songs from the era.

I do get some emails asking about versions of songs I play. While I'm far from 100% original single versions (it would be practically impossible to find mint to near-mint vinyl of all these tunes) I do have a good start and many people do hear the difference be it a rare mix (be it stereo, mono or a promo/radio edit).
 
I almost always prefer the 45 over the album cut on the songs from the days of Top 40.

I was thinking about the song "Dirty Laundry" and how the original edit was very "sparse" musically in the bridge, and the
bass info caused the AGC to pump up and down massively.

After the song became "big-big", they re-released it to radio with a chka-chka-chka-chka noise in the bridge.
Were there listener complaints, or station complaints?

I never owned any copy of the record, so I don't know which versions were on vinyl.

There are quite a few songs I have the same version on 45 and LP, and I almost always favor the audio of the 45.
 
Having always preferring AOR stations to Top-40 stations, I prefer the Album Verison of songs over the Single Edits. Nothing irks me more than to buy a Greatest Hits CD and get the Single edit instead of the Album version.

Chicago put out a Greatest Hits Double CD in 2002 on Rhino Records that did contain several of the Single Edits of their songs instead of the Album version. "25 or 6 to 4", "Dialogue", "Beginnings" and several others were not the Album version. I don't know if they were the original Single edits or radio versions, but they were DEFINITELY NOT THE ALBUM VERSIONS of those songs.
 
If I were King, I'd always go for the original "hit" version, edit or mix. Joy To The World is a perfect example (45 mono version with key change at end of song available from TM Century Gold Disc). Although some of the razor blade editing was dreadful, e.i. Chicago's "Beginnings". If the original version is available in Stereo, that gets preference.

The 80's are another tough one to conquer. Like the original hit 45 version of Bill Joel's "Keeping The Faith" with all of the added percussion. Better re-order new stylii for those Stanton 500's!
 
I vote for album versions. Classic rock album songs deserves respectful preservation--and edits take away such respect. However, there are edits--done eons before the digital age--that are impressive; others were botched up and should be forgotten.

Air album rock song anthems. One better: give the other good songs on these classic rock albums some heavy airplay rotation!! I think THAT is what classic AOR needs to stay in the game.
 
I usually prefer the album versions. Every time I hear Black Magic Woman without Gyspy Queen, I feel cheated.
 
"Crimson and Clover", "Magic Carpet Ride", "Blinded by the Light", "American Pie", "Light My Fire", "That's the Way of the World", "Hey Jude", "Layla", even "Reunited" by Peaches & Herb...should ALWAYS be played at full-length!!

The short version of Crimson and Clover..just sounds AWFUL, as does "Magic Carpet Ride" and the Doors "Light My Fire". Some songs were meant to be played complete!!!

Oh..and don't forget "Ain't No Mountain High Enough" by Diana Ross...The longer 6 minute version is what radio stations need to air...It just sounds more complete..That short 3 minute version that most oldies stations play..just does not cut it.
 
In the world of classic/mainstream rock, you just don't play edits.

But, that being said, depending on your format and delivery (oldies/classic hits), I can see where some stations are looking to recreate the musical landscape of the time (60s/70s) by playing the "radio" hits. Many memorable songs that date before the 1980s (MTV) were heard on radio.

Quick story:

I remember once auditorium testing both the edited and original version of Chicago's "Make Me Smile" for some of our AC P1's back in the 80s. When this song was originally a hit on radio in 1970, it was an edit. It wasn't until years later, and the formation of the classic rock format before the album version was getting rotated. Both tested well (in 1985), but we played the edit because people just "disliked" the longer (lesser known) version.

Play what's best for YOUR audience, by listening to YOUR market!
 
Other songs that should never be played as edits include: "Nights in White Satin", "Riders on the Storm", "Beginnings" and "Black Magic Woman".
 
What about In a Gadda Da Vida?
What about Autobahn?
Which version of Suzy-Q by CCR?
 
The Long version of "Susie Q" is just fine!! And don't forget "Green-Eyed Lady" by Sugarloaf..A must play at full-length! :D
 
oldies76 said:
"Crimson and Clover", "Magic Carpet Ride", "Blinded by the Light", "American Pie", "Light My Fire", "That's the Way of the World", "Hey Jude", "Layla", even "Reunited" by Peaches & Herb...should ALWAYS be played at full-length!!

The short version of Crimson and Clover..just sounds AWFUL, as does "Magic Carpet Ride" and the Doors "Light My Fire". Some songs were meant to be played complete!!!
Click to expand...

I'll agree with you on American Pie & Layla. No one played the edit of Layla even when the song was a current. While most stations played the dj edit of American Pie when it was on the charts, that version hasn't been heard since 1972, and would sound strange to most listeners. Light My Fire depends...classic rock=long version, the short version is fine for oldies since that's what the top 40 stations played anyway.

As far as the others...the long version of C&C is a hack job...the single version was the way it was originally recorded, that boring bridge was tacked on later because in 1969 it was hip to have a long version on the album. It was an afterthought and sounds like it. You can fade Hey Jude anywhere after 5 min or so and no one will notice. Likewise Hotel California.

Never even knew there was a long version of the Earth Wind & Fire or Peaches & Herb songs...never heard them on the air, I doubt either song gets much airplay these days anyway except maybe on a classic soul format.

If you prefer the long versions, buy an Ipod & groove to your heart's content. Play the long version of In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida or Get Ready too for all we care.
 
The long version of "That's the Way of the World" is about 5:45, the edited version is around 3 minutes.
Same for "Reunited", about 5:40 long, roughly 3:40 short. "Last Dance" by Donna Summer is an interesting one. Over 8 minutes for the Album Version on "Thank God it's Friday", but chopped to 3 1/2 or 4 1/2 minutes depending on the edit chosen. The radio version is the shorter of the two, I believe.
 
I go for the original versions of songs, the way most listeners remember them. If the original radio play on a song came from the album, I go for that. If it came from the single mix, I go for that. This varies from market to market. Certain songs do indeed feel cheated with the single version...Black Magic Woman/Gypsy Queen, Hard To Say I'm Sorry/Getaway by Chicago are two that come to mind. Since most Top 40 stations did not play the really long versions of songs like Suzie-Q by CCR, or the 21 minute "Get Ready" by Rare Earth, I tend to avoid these. But I'm with you on stuff like "Magic Carpet Ride", "White Room", etc.

"Crimson And Clover" from the LP is NOT orignal, however. For the album, they went back and recorded the long guitar bridge, and didn't even have the decency to edit it in smoothly or even play it in the same key. This "long" version is a DISASTER and needs to have the master bulk erased! I know that some have taken it and cleaned the edit up and re-pitched it to match. But that isn't original, either.
 
There are actually some stations that play "Heartbreaker" without "Living Loving Maid" - that grinds my gears... Same for truncated versions of "Frankenstein", "Magic Man" and "Sweet Home Alabama" (usually on country stations).
 
The long version of Crimson and Clover is about 5:27..the short radio edit that's always heard on oldies stations is about 3 1/2 minutes ( I don't own the radio edit, so the exact time is not given)..That guitar bridge or "addition" to shorten the song, right before the "stuttering effect" of Crimson and Clover, over and over..sounds BAD and should not even be aired on radio.

The edited version of "Beginnings" by Chicago is horrible... way too much is cut out, nothing like the album version.
 
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