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SiriusXM projected to have lower subscriber gains later in 2023

davideduardo

Moderator/Administrator
Staff member
From Inside Radio:

"Wells Fargo Lowers 2022 And 2023 Forecasts For Sirius XM.
With new car sales still struggling, Wells Fargo has lowered its fourth quarter estimates for several key metrics for SiriusXM. In an earnings revision sent to clients Thursday, the investment firm says it now expects the satellite broadcaster to post 50,000 self-pay net subscriber additions in Q4. That’s a 19% reduction from its earlier call for 62,000 self-pay net adds. “We think things will get a bit worse before they get better,” media analyst Steven Cahall says."
 
From Inside Radio:

"Wells Fargo Lowers 2022 And 2023 Forecasts For Sirius XM.
With new car sales still struggling, Wells Fargo has lowered its fourth quarter estimates for several key metrics for SiriusXM. In an earnings revision sent to clients Thursday, the investment firm says it now expects the satellite broadcaster to post 50,000 self-pay net subscriber additions in Q4. That’s a 19% reduction from its earlier call for 62,000 self-pay net adds. “We think things will get a bit worse before they get better,” media analyst Steven Cahall says."
How do they know unless they can see the books. Isn't this stock manipulation.

Isn't the bigger data point the amount of churn. How many subscribers are they losing.
 
How do they know unless they can see the books. Isn't this stock manipulation.

Isn't the bigger data point the amount of churn. How many subscribers are they losing.
Don't think they're talking about 'losing subscribers'. They're talking about estimates to expect less subscriber growth in 2023. It's preparing financial analyst's that they're aware subscriptions to media and entertainment is expected to be at a slower, or stagnant rate.
 
How do they know unless they can see the books. Isn't this stock manipulation.
No, it is an analysis of a company based on market conditions. This is normal for investment advisors going back to the 1930's.
Isn't the bigger data point the amount of churn. How many subscribers are they losing.
We all know, based on past performance, how many new car buyers go to a paid satellite plan. With car sales always declining in a recession, it is easy for WF to predict new car subscribers based on estimates for new car sales.

And their economists can do a pretty good guess on how current subscribers will react to a recessionary economy.

For example, winter gas bills in CA have increased about 150% based on rate increases and another 40% to 50% due to a cold winter. My December 2021 was $80 and in 2022 it was $296. When consumers find that their budget is off by several hundred a month, many look at what they can cut. On a local board on Nextdoor, people are vehemently discussing how to reduce expenditures and the first to pop up is premium video services and satellite radio.
 
No, it is an analysis of a company based on market conditions. This is normal for investment advisors going back to the 1930's.

We all know, based on past performance, how many new car buyers go to a paid satellite plan. With car sales always declining in a recession, it is easy for WF to predict new car subscribers based on estimates for new car sales.

And their economists can do a pretty good guess on how current subscribers will react to a recessionary economy.

For example, winter gas bills in CA have increased about 150% based on rate increases and another 40% to 50% due to a cold winter. My December 2021 was $80 and in 2022 it was $296. When consumers find that their budget is off by several hundred a month, many look at what they can cut. On a local board on Nextdoor, people are vehemently discussing how to reduce expenditures and the first to pop up is premium video services and satellite radio.
Comcast just jacked up our cable/internet by $65 a month (apparently they've ended all promotional pricing) so we cut the TV part down to the local channels and are figuring out streaming options.
 
Why is this posted in National Radio when there is a specific board for satellite radio?
Because lower satellite subscriptions generally would be thought to benefit terrestrial radio and, to some extent, streaming.
 
Because lower satellite subscriptions generally would be thought to benefit terrestrial radio and, to some extent, streaming.

By whom? Not Wells Fargo. Nowhere in the article do they see this as good for OTA. No recommendations to buy Audacy.


This is strictly about satellite radio. That's where it belongs.
 
By whom? Not Wells Fargo. Nowhere in the article do they see this as good for OTA. No recommendations to buy Audacy.
It's my interpretation.
This is strictly about satellite radio. That's where it belongs.
As I said, it is my interpretation as anything that negatively affects paid or streamed services benefits terrestrial radio i-n m-y o-p-i-n-i-o-n.
 
It's my interpretation.

As I said, it is my interpretation as anything that negatively affects paid or streamed services benefits terrestrial radio i-n m-y o-p-i-n-i-o-n.

Kelly in #3 has this exactly right. The article is NOT about losing subscribers, but Sirius not growing. The lack of growth for Sirius means nothing to national radio. If it helps streaming, there's also a board for that.

Frank needs to move this to the proper place.
 
Kelly in #3 has this exactly right. The article is NOT about losing subscribers, but Sirius not growing. The lack of growth for Sirius means nothing to national radio. If it helps streaming, there's also a board for that.
As people suffer the impacts of inflation and the lessening of the effects of COVID, among other things, they will look at what they spend discretionary money on.

I gave an example of how people on much of the West Coast are seeing 2.5 to 3 times prior year's gas bills, and significant increases in electric bills. A dozen eggs is more than 2.5 times as expensive as last year and even a 12-pack of sodas costs as much as three such packs 18 months ago. That is inflation, and causes people to cut expenses.

Getting closer to my point, fewer people are buying new cars and fewer still projected to activate Sirius/XM. What does that leave the bulk of car owners to listen to? And since the major alternative is terrestrial radio, this is going to... at least... slow the conversion to other services.

Since in-car is approaching 50% of all radio listening, the beneficiary of inflation, fewer satellite activations and the retention of older cars for longer times this is, to me, a radio subject as it affects terrestrial radio listening.
Frank needs to move this to the proper place.
I could do it myself if I thought it mattered. I just think the subject affects many members of the public, while the other subject just affects a couple of investment banks and retirement funds.
 
Since in-car is approaching 50% of all radio listening, the beneficiary of inflation, fewer satellite activations and the retention of older cars for longer times this is, to me, a radio subject as it affects terrestrial radio listening.

The entire basis for this article is new car sales. Nowhere in the article does the analyst mention inflation or the cost of a subscription. It all based on new car sales. The problem with that basis is that Sirius isn't targeting new cars for growth. Several years ago, they released the Sirius app, and they are trying to move users from dashboard radio to a phone based service that can be used in more places, and isn't restricted to the car. In fact, subscribers can receive more channels with the app than through the dashboard. Plus people can get the app without buying a completely new car. So if the financial analyst wanted to properly evaluate the stock based on future growth, he should have at least mentioned the app, and also covered how inflation has affected subscriptions. But he didn't. Which is partly why it's a useless analysis.

Last week, Sirius announced a cash dividend, and they also hired a new Chief Growth Officer. None of that was mentioned.

I could do it myself if I thought it mattered. I just think the subject affects many members of the public, while the other subject just affects a couple of investment banks and retirement funds.

Once again there's no reason to believe that a decline in Sirius growth will lead to people rushing out and buying transistor radios or spending more time listening to 15 minute commercial breaks on OTA radio. The analyst avoided making such a fake prediction, which was smart. The proper question is do consumers want to pay for radio. That's a completely different question, and one best triggered by a different article. This particular article is restricted to satellite radio.
 
Why pay for this, when I can hear what I want for free. And there's nothing more unsexy to young people than some dirty talking old grandpa on there. I think humans are stupid to pay to hear it!
 
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The entire basis for this article is new car sales. Nowhere in the article does the analyst mention inflation or the cost of a subscription. It all based on new car sales. The problem with that basis is that Sirius isn't targeting new cars for growth. Several years ago, they released the Sirius app, and they are trying to move users from dashboard radio to a phone based service that can be used in more places, and isn't restricted to the car. In fact, subscribers can receive more channels with the app than through the dashboard. Plus people can get the app without buying a completely new car. So if the financial analyst wanted to properly evaluate the stock based on future growth, he should have at least mentioned the app, and also covered how inflation has affected subscriptions. But he didn't. Which is partly why it's a useless analysis.
The fact is that nearly all Sirius/XM streaming subscriptions are based on vehicle subscriptions and the hook is "you can have it at home and at work as well as in your car". The marketing effort to get new streaming only subscriptions is much less aggressive.

The Wells analysis focused on one factor which has traditionally determined the profitability and growth of the company. In other words, if you read the report (I have a Wells investment account) it focuses on what has the greatest impact on revenue.

And it is not a "he" report but an analysis by the whole investment department as Sirius/XM is one of the stocks that they track and do a full, regular analysis on.
Last week, Sirius announced a cash dividend, and they also hired a new Chief Growth Officer. None of that was mentioned.
As that is not considered significant for future stock price, which is the objective of such a report... they reduce them to strong buy, buy, hold, sell, strong sell at the end of the report.
Once again there's no reason to believe that a decline in Sirius growth will lead to people rushing out and buying transistor radios or spending more time listening to 15 minute commercial breaks on OTA radio.
I did not say that, but my analysis is that a slowing of satellite radio growth is of benefit to listening time by actual users, just as the shedding of paid video streaming accounts due to cost benefits cable and OTA television in various proportions.
The analyst avoided making such a fake prediction, which was smart.
That is because he was not evaluating another industry where Wells does not do a full analysis on any specific issues. I made the conclusion that any reduction in Sirius/XM usage certainly does not harm terrestrial radio and could, slightly for sure, benefit it. And that is because the average poster here believes that satellite usage is much higher than the 8% to 10% of in car usage that is the actual reality.
The proper question is do consumers want to pay for radio. That's a completely different question, and one best triggered by a different article. This particular article is restricted to satellite radio.
And Sirius/XM is a direct competitor, whether actual or potential, to terrestrial radio in nearly every car that is sold and now, two decades after launching, in practically every car and truck on the road.

That is why it is material, also, to look at the way paid vs. ad sponsored streaming-only providers market as the cost and the consumer options determine how many people move away from terrestrial radio.
 
Why pay for this, when I can hear what I want for free. And there's nothing more unsexy to young people than some dirty talking old grandpa on there. I think humans are stupid to pay to hear it!
Of course, one of the data fragments Sirius/XM does not release is its internal surveys of usage by channel. What, for example, is the percentage of subscribers who heavily use the Stern content?

Some years ago, they spent millions putting "Piolín" on a channel for Spanish dominant appeal. It turned out that everything from the brand new studio in LA to the huge salaries was wasted as "nobody" subscribed to hear that. They reacted by reducing the basic Spanish language channels as they found that nearly nobody subscribed because of them; what they did not realize is that every one of them was pretty dreadful and vastly inferior to local radio in most of the country.
 
The fact is that nearly all Sirius/XM streaming subscriptions are based on vehicle subscriptions and the hook is "you can have it at home and at work as well as in your car". The marketing effort to get new streaming only subscriptions is much less aggressive.

That's not true. As I said, they've launched a bunch of new channels that are only available on the app. They see the new car approach as being more expensive and very limited. So most of their marketing now is about the app:


Yes, new car sales was the "traditional" way to measure Sirius. But this analyst has not kept up with the times, and for that reason, his analysis is dated. To discuss Sirius without mentioning the app is ignoring the future of the company. The article is written around Steve Cahill, who's a Wells Fargo analyst. That's the "he" I'm talking about.
 
That's not true. As I said, they've launched a bunch of new channels that are only available on the app. They see the new car approach as being more expensive and very limited. So most of their marketing now is about the app:

Yes, nearly every analyst, ranging from blogs to investment advisers to radio consultants and research companies has in some way forecast that satellite delivery is in its "autumn years" due to cost and the increasingly available higher speed cellular and ISP services.

But they spent nearly $1 billion on contracts for replacement satellites, so this is a decade-or-longer strategy. Likely influencing this is the increased availability of streamed services in vehicles. The car I bought this month will connect wirelessly with my iPhone and give me access to any streaming service I set up there, using the phone as a hotspot for the car.

If Sirius/XM allows other providers to dominate in-home music streams, they will eventually be nudged out of the in-car market as users take faster and cheaper than ever alternative services into the car. I see it as a defensive move to retain customers and to reduce churn.
 
If Sirius/XM allows other providers to dominate in-home music streams, they will eventually be nudged out of the in-car market as users take faster and cheaper than ever alternative services into the car. I see it as a defensive move to retain customers and to reduce churn.

Which is why they're developing lots of new channels and services that are exclusive to the app. None of which was mentioned in the article or in the forecast. Sirius will release their full year results on Thursday, and I predict they will spend a lot of time talking about the app.
 
You can stream what you want when you want. Instant response is the advantage of the internet. And as David said it's easy in the car anymore.
 
Which is why they're developing lots of new channels and services that are exclusive to the app.
Because they don't have bandwidth restrictions. As it is, they have compressed the satellite channels "to the max" and extended foreground listing off the satellite service is fatiguing and annoying.

Setting up many of those channels is very easy, as few of the new ones are fully hosted or even hosted at all. If you have the music library on the system server, all you have to do is pick the songs, record some sweepers and imaging and set the scheduler in motion.

The more different mixes you have, the better chances you get of hitting individual tastes.
None of which was mentioned in the article or in the forecast. Sirius will release their full year results on Thursday, and I predict they will spend a lot of time talking about the app.
The issue, though, is how many paid subscriptions originate outside the purchase of a vehicle being the first step.

This is not a Field of Dreams and if they build it, there is no guarantee they will come. Personally, I find several of the subscription streaming options to be superior, particularly the ones you can build and customize yourself.
 
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