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Skype?

N

NSRadio

Anyone have experience using Skype for remote broadcasts?

We're thinking of trying a wireless broadband internet connection for remotes, and hopefully rely less on the POTS codec. I've looked at ShoutCAST and Icecast, but the Podcasts I've heard using Skype sound pretty good, and obviously have low latency since you can have 2-way conversations.

We're just looking for remote voice, music still originates at the station.

Thanks!
 
> Anyone have experience using Skype for remote broadcasts?
>
> We're thinking of trying a wireless broadband internet
> connection for remotes, and hopefully rely less on the POTS
> codec. I've looked at ShoutCAST and Icecast, but the
> Podcasts I've heard using Skype sound pretty good, and
> obviously have low latency since you can have 2-way
> conversations.
>
> We're just looking for remote voice, music still originates
> at the station.
>
> Thanks!
>

I've heard a station in our market using Skype and it sounds pretty darn amazing!!!

Frankly, when you consider that IF....HD takes off, we will all be delaying our audio considerably, what difference would latency ultimately mean? Expect 2-5-10 seconds of latency, depending.

I'd rather e-mail than stream, but that's just me. At least you know it's there and can preview it...rather than pray to the dropped packet gods.
 
> > Anyone have experience using Skype for remote broadcasts?
>
> >
> > We're thinking of trying a wireless broadband internet
> > connection for remotes, and hopefully rely less on the
> POTS
> > codec. I've looked at ShoutCAST and Icecast, but the
> > Podcasts I've heard using Skype sound pretty good, and
> > obviously have low latency since you can have 2-way
> > conversations.
> >
> > We're just looking for remote voice, music still
> originates
> > at the station.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
>
> I've heard a station in our market using Skype and it sounds
> pretty darn amazing!!!
>
> Frankly, when you consider that IF....HD takes off, we will
> all be delaying our audio considerably, what difference
> would latency ultimately mean? Expect 2-5-10 seconds of
> latency, depending.
>
> I'd rather e-mail than stream, but that's just me. At least
> you know it's there and can preview it...rather than pray to
> the dropped packet gods.
>


What kind of delay can you expect from the Skype connection?
 
Thanks for the feedback guys. I agree that e-mail is the best way to do it to avoid dropped packets....but we do our remotes with a P.A. system and it may look odd if the D.J. is just sitting there when his voice is coming out over the speakers :).

I have both Skype and Voiperized installed, I'm going to test them out and see which we like better.

Will post a follow-up with any comparisons I find.

Thanks!


> Give Voiperized a try instead of Skype
>
> http://www.voiperized.com
>
> Less delay and a direct point-to-point connection via UDP.
> Lowest delay possible!
>
> I've tried it out and it's awesome!
>
 
We've found that there is enough delay over ordinary cell phones that the announcers have to be out of PA range or they go nuts with the "echo" (delayed audio).

Whather or not there would be enough delay over a broadband Skype connection to cause a problem would be something to be determined by experimentation. To be safe, you could isolate the DJ (such as giving him local audio feed through big, soft sound isolating headphones) so that he won't hear the delay over the off-air return feed to the PA.
 
> We've found that there is enough delay over ordinary cell
> phones that the announcers have to be out of PA range or
> they go nuts with the "echo" (delayed audio).
>
> Whather or not there would be enough delay over a broadband
> Skype connection to cause a problem would be something to be
> determined by experimentation. To be safe, you could
> isolate the DJ (such as giving him local audio feed through
> big, soft sound isolating headphones) so that he won't hear
> the delay over the off-air return feed to the PA.
>
Why use a cheapy sounding cell phone????? What ever happened to using a Marti? It is funny, I hear stations using cell phone to record into playback at station. Not a live remote in my opinion.......No magic at all, looks cheesy IMHO<P ID="signature">______________
I've been listening to your show on the radio, and you seem like a friend to meeeeeeeee</P>
 
We've set up our P.A. system with a compressor that gates out the air signal when the D.J. starts talking, so all that goes out over the P.A. is the local signal. When he stops talking, the gate lets go and we go back to the air feed.

Not a perfect solution, but it works, and as long as we can get under a couple seconds of delay from VoIP, it should work (I hope!). ANYTHING is better than the Telos XPort POTS codec we're using now....half the time it won't even connect!

> We've found that there is enough delay over ordinary cell
> phones that the announcers have to be out of PA range or
> they go nuts with the "echo" (delayed audio).
>
> Whather or not there would be enough delay over a broadband
> Skype connection to cause a problem would be something to be
> determined by experimentation. To be safe, you could
> isolate the DJ (such as giving him local audio feed through
> big, soft sound isolating headphones) so that he won't hear
> the delay over the off-air return feed to the PA.
>
 
> > We've found that there is enough delay over ordinary cell
> > phones that the announcers have to be out of PA range or
> > they go nuts with the "echo" (delayed audio).
> >
> > Whather or not there would be enough delay over a
> broadband
> > Skype connection to cause a problem would be something to
> be
> > determined by experimentation. To be safe, you could
> > isolate the DJ (such as giving him local audio feed
> through
> > big, soft sound isolating headphones) so that he won't
> hear
> > the delay over the off-air return feed to the PA.
> >
> Why use a cheapy sounding cell phone????? What ever happened
> to using a Marti? It is funny, I hear stations using cell
> phone to record into playback at station. Not a live remote
> in my opinion.......No magic at all, looks cheesy IMHO
>


Indeed! Martis are easy to use, but some people just dont want to put the effort forward.

When I got the this cluster our Martis system was a joke. We now have Marti range almost equivalent to our FM range. Now we are going to have to deal with HD Radio 8 second delay, but I am training people to use a cell phone ear for live talk back to the studios.
 
> Anyone have experience using Skype for remote broadcasts?
>
> We're thinking of trying a wireless broadband internet
> connection for remotes, and hopefully rely less on the POTS
> codec. I've looked at ShoutCAST and Icecast, but the
> Podcasts I've heard using Skype sound pretty good, and
> obviously have low latency since you can have 2-way
> conversations.
>
> We're just looking for remote voice, music still originates
> at the station.
>
> Thanks!

I've been using Skype for an internet show for a few months now. Previously, we used Gizmo Project, but Skype's lower latency and excellent audio quality made that our choice. It's also more secure, but a strange bug sometimes causes sound card settings to reset themselves on-air.

Leo Laporte (formerly of TechTV) uses Skype on some editions of his podcast, This Week in Tech (TWiT). http://thisweekintech.com/
 
In terrain like we have, Marti coverage is very limited. And we have remotes 25 miles out routinely. Telco become the only practical option
 
> We've set up our P.A. system with a compressor that gates
> out the air signal when the D.J. starts talking, so all that
> goes out over the P.A. is the local signal. When he stops
> talking, the gate lets go and we go back to the air feed.

Clever solution. Sounds like a winna!
 
> In terrain like we have, Marti coverage is very limited.
> And we have remotes 25 miles out routinely. Telco become the
> only practical option

Not sure Marti still makes it...

They used to offer a repeater package that would really extend
the coverage if you could find a place to put one.

Not all that many years ago I built my own to get coverage of
a critical event from nearly 100 miles out. It was all contained
in a former tower lighting controller box powered by a Marine
gel cell. Whole thing sat in a sled with a modified ham antenna
bolted to the side. Worked real-time analog; none of this nutty
digital delay crap. Quality was not full-studio but, for the
event, more than adequate.
<P ID="signature">______________
When you're done impeaching the prez, keep on going; recall every member of congress and lock 'em up! Let's try NO govt. for a while.</P>
 
Posted on behalf of Rolf Taylor, Telos Systems (rolf( dot) taylor( at) Zephyr(dot )com

NSRadio,

Please contact us, or let us know your real name, so we can assist you with your problems. You can contact me directly, or you can contact supportattelos-systemsdotcom or our Support Department at 216.241.7225.

Have you been in touch with our support department?

Is the problem only at this site or at more than one location?

Have you checked the items on our list of "Does and Don'ts" in the Xport Manual?

Best regards

Rolf Taylor

Product Manager, Telephony


Subject: Re: Skype? [re: tpt]
Posted by: NSRadio
Posted on: 02/28/06 01:12 PM

>We've set up our P.A. system with a compressor that gates out the air signal when the D.J. starts talking, so all that goes out over the P.A. is the >local signal. When he stops talking, the gate lets go and we go back to the air feed.
>
>Not a perfect solution, but it works, and as long as we can get under a couple seconds of delay from VoIP, it should work (I hope!). ANYTHING is >better than the Telos XPort POTS codec we're using now....half the time it won't even connect!

>> We've found that there is enough delay over ordinary cell
>> phones that the announcers have to be out of PA range or
>> they go nuts with the "echo" (delayed audio).
>>
>> Whather or not there would be enough delay over a broadband
>> Skype connection to cause a problem would be something to be
>> determined by experimentation. To be safe, you could
>> isolate the DJ (such as giving him local audio feed through
>> big, soft sound isolating headphones) so that he won't hear
>> the delay over the off-air return feed to the PA.
>>

Telos Systems
2101 Superior Ave
Cleveland, OH 44114


216.241-7225
216-241-4103 (Fax)

http://www.telos-systems.com
 
Actually I had never heard of Skype until I started listening to TWiT and one of Leo's other shows, SecurityNOW.

Good to know that you've been using Skype reliably. Hopefully that bug will get worked out in a future release....

> I've been using Skype for an internet show for a few months
> now. Previously, we used Gizmo Project, but Skype's lower
> latency and excellent audio quality made that our choice.
> It's also more secure, but a strange bug sometimes causes
> sound card settings to reset themselves on-air.
>
> Leo Laporte (formerly of TechTV) uses Skype on some editions
> of his podcast, This Week in Tech (TWiT).
> http://thisweekintech.com/
>


> > Anyone have experience using Skype for remote broadcasts?
>
> >
> > We're thinking of trying a wireless broadband internet
> > connection for remotes, and hopefully rely less on the
> POTS
> > codec. I've looked at ShoutCAST and Icecast, but the
> > Podcasts I've heard using Skype sound pretty good, and
> > obviously have low latency since you can have 2-way
> > conversations.
> >
> > We're just looking for remote voice, music still
> originates
> > at the station.
> >
> > Thanks!
>
 
Just an FYI-

We've tested both Skype and VoIPerizer. Skype is great - the latency is neglible (probably close to 100ms) across our LAN, and only somewhere in the 500-750ms range on a medium-quality wireless IP connection.

The audio quality is better than G.722. Maybe not quite as good as Layer 3 depending on bandwidth, but definitely good enough for a remote broadcast on FM.

Had problems with VoIPerizer getting around firewalls, which will make it a problem at remotes since we won't always have access to the router/firewall settings at the location....I did like that it uses an open-source audio codec though.

Looks like Internet streaming audio is going to be the way to go.

Thanks for everyone's feedback!


> Anyone have experience using Skype for remote broadcasts?
>
> We're thinking of trying a wireless broadband internet
> connection for remotes, and hopefully rely less on the POTS
> codec. I've looked at ShoutCAST and Icecast, but the
> Podcasts I've heard using Skype sound pretty good, and
> obviously have low latency since you can have 2-way
> conversations.
>
> We're just looking for remote voice, music still originates
> at the station.
>
> Thanks!
>
 
Most of the Marti models had relay contacts, trigered by pl tone, that could be used to set up a repeater. Just needed a jumper from receiver to transmitter for audio and transmit key.

We have stations in two different cities, 25 miles apart. We have used our 450 Marti to send a signal to the one transmitter site, then 160 RPU 25 miles to the studio (sometimes the other way around--there's a good 450 mhz path back to the studio from that site).

But for most remotes we are just too strapped for staff to get that elaborate. We only have 5 full-time.
 
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