SMALL MAKET OLDIES Choice?

[hipporadio]

Audio quality is well-beyond what ANY of you here have casually experienced on AM... It REALLY is AWESOME as AM stations are judged in the current broadcast world!

Thank You - Thank You - Thank You hipporadio. As the engineer who set up WIFE's audio on my workbench before placing it on the air, the compliment regarding WIFE made my day.

Sooo... YOU’RE THE ONE! Honestly, and I mean no disservice to the Jim Lupas’ of this world—1580 WIFE currently has damn near THE FINEST AUDIO I have heard on AM radio... And what an irony at 250-watts!

Here is my roster of above-average to exceptional AM radios I have had the pleasure to listen to them on:

* Carver TX-11b (circa 1987): C-QUAM stereo, switch-able NRSC, ultra-low distortion synchronous detection with dual bandwidths (the narrowest is about 8k with a gentle skirt). It is impractical (and nearly-unusable) nowadays, but within a few miles of their TX, WIFE sounds NO DIFFERENT than a well-done mono FM... I actually have to DECREASE the treble when listening! In the “wide” (15kHz) I.F. setting—there isn’t a hint of “above-band trash” in their signal (but little audio improvement due to the NRSC mask). Today, this tuner is hooked to a McKay-Dymek tuned active antenna with a foot-long ferrite bar, and resides with a Shoutcast server on a T-1 VPN at my brother’s business there. I stream WIFE at 64kbps mp3 mono so I can enjoy a very good oldies station here in Charleston.

* Denon’s (circa 1990) FM stereo/AMax (mono) tuner with a maximum bandwidth that descends to the NRSC cutoff beginning at about 7.5kHz. WIFE actually sounds most pristine on this one—no EQ twiddling required—and the bass is better due to no C-QUAM pilot filter roll-off.

* Icom’s R-71A AM/SWL receiver with an accessory Collins 16kHz (tight skirt) band-pass filter (8kHz audio). I actually prefer listening on this "bad boy" because of the slight detector-induced distortion... Those late-60s “garage and frat-house bands” seem to sound more authentic with a bit of “AM grit” added in!

* On three more common AM-friendly radios—The C. Crane, Sangean’s WR-2, and Tivoli’s “Kloss” Model One “heritage” analog-tuned table model—WIFE sounds AWESOME. If the latter three radios were in greater public population, I can find NO SANE REASON why an Oldies fan could not appreciate the format on a well-engineered AM station!

I was also in the WDJO transmitter building last week and Rodger Kay allowed me to fiddle with the WDJO sound. After being spoiled with WIFE's sound, I felt WDJO sounded awesome but could use some more upper high end.

What a FINE SURVIVING EXAMPLE of RADIO! I agree with your audio diagnosis there. I heard them in April ’06 on I-275 in a rented Chrysler product with above-average AM. They sound very good, but a tad lacking in the area you noted. You have your ear on the critical stuff. Last Labor Day weekend, we had a family reunion at a resort about half-way up Brookville Lake. That’s about equal-signal territory for WIFE vs. WDJO. I toted the Tivoli to our overnight accommodations and compared the two... ‘Guess which station won the prize for “best audio”? WIFE—by a mile!

Again...thanks for the kind words. Not every day the engineering department gets acknowledgement!

You deserve every one, Bob! Seems most engineers only get their due credit when something blows up—and they fix the problem before the next scheduled spot break

P.S. WIFE needs to apply about 30% of your on-air audio magic to their internet stream... It's good, but could kick a little more tail

 

[BobOnTheJob]

I had concerns about the WIFE streaming audio, but the streaming host made it clear that they wanted a flat feed from the console and that "they would take care of the processing". It's not the best I've heard, but fortunately, it's not the worst either. My best streaming effort to date is at www.wjcpradio.com but the past few days I haven't been able to get it to connect. That one has the studio portion of a split Optimod 8100A feeding directly into the encoder...streams at 2 or 3 rates from 32 to 128kb. Hopefully that will be back soon. It's satellite delivered oldies with some live shifts.

Based on your posting, I've pitched Rodger Kay to get WDJO throwing off some cash to improve the processing even further. That's some mighty fine radio he's got goin'...

Thanks again for your favorable critique of WIFE's sound.

Bob

 

[hipporadio]

I had concerns about the WIFE streaming audio, but the streaming host made it clear that they wanted a flat feed from the console and that "they would take care of the processing".

Right... And I'm able to service the space shuttle OK Bob... 'Just sneak in a good used Aphex Compellor in front of that encoder PC. I doubt that SurferNETWORK would even notice... And SO WHAT! WIFE's paying the bill for service. I hear old 320s are coming in on trade for the 320D model with digital I/O (yet retaining that beautiful analog engine). IMHO--a GOOD AGC is an ANALOG AGG! "Digital is getting it right on multi-band compression and limiting, but benefits greatly from an agile gain-rider that hits the "sweet spot". I have a private service over a VPN streaming MS Windows Media at 128k stereo using a Compellor 320D into a TCElectronic Finalizer Express digital multi-band compressor/limiter--and the audio is as impressive over I.P. as your's is on WIFE!

I'll be sure to check out your feed from 1460AM on the net, and good luck with WDJO!

 

[BobOnTheJob]

There's now a Behringer Composer on the superoldies1580.com stream. Comments anyone?

 

[hipporadio]

Bob... After reading your post, I hit the WIFE website and listened. I was greeted with the Mamas and Papas “I Saw Her Again”, and the sound “jumped right out” from the Altec-Lansing system. The low-bass really hit the sub nicely... no “mud”—just solid and tight. That song is rather “dense” to begin with, but the Composer handled it well—it nearly appeared to be in dynamic “stasis”. I continued to listen to the variety of material that followed, and generally your addition improved the audio substantially.

I’ve had some experience with Behringer’s Composer “Lite” version 1600. Several years ago I set up a friend’s webstream using one with a BSI WaveStation automation program. I remember the useful “side chain” feature on the 1600, which we used with a dedicated V/T output from WaveStation thru the Mackie mixer’s input-send to “duck” the music for PERFECT voice-overs. It worked exceptionally well! I was somewhat surprised at the features, control options, and good performance offered for under $150!

Unlike the dbx processors (which appear to be more automatic), Behringer provides a full boat of adjustable compression parameters—enough to get some users into trouble. I remember “getting it right” only to “re-tweak” with a change in music style. I observed the same as WIFE cycled thru their widely-varied (and exceptional) playlist. Some songs appeared to suffer a bit of “smack” on quick dynamics—usually a sign of an overly-aggressive “attack” and/or “ratio”. Honestly, the same is true with the costlier dbx 266 unit I own; BUT (no matter how hard I try) I CANNOT force the Aphex Compellor into the same malady... That box sounds nearly the same at 25db of drive as it does at +10db—just louder, and its selectable peak limiter is unobtrusive and reasonably effective.

I know... I’m being picky, but a guy who can create the broadcast audio you have demonstrated—probably is also! The presentation on the WIFE stream is far better now!

 

[BobOnTheJob]

Thanks for the detailed critique of WIFE's stream. I heard the smack on a song or two, but felt that the benefits outweighed that artifact. Originally it was set so that it just kept the levels consistent (something that was needed), but after trying a more "in your face" approach & doing everything from slamming the meters on the board to dropping them to 15%, the stream variation was about 4db between extremes. Plus, when cranked up, it caused me to uncontrollably yell "Now this is what oldies are meant to sound like". I was originally gonna add an AM Volumax to the Composer, but they wanted to stay in stereo, so plan B was the barefoot Composer.

 

[hipporadio]

I heard the smack on a song or two, but felt that the benefits outweighed that artifact.

AGREED... I compared the WIFE stream (which sounds like WMA at 32kbps) to a similar stream offered by the former WLS-FM (“True Oldies 94.7 WZZN Chicago)... WIFE’s has way more ba**s and the “Now this is what oldies are meant to sound like” quality that you mentioned—which I just adore BTW!

One observation I was able to better make after an hour of listening: You might try backing off the “release time” a bit (this could contribute to “smack” also)... Just before 5PM, they played Dianh Washington’s “What a Difference a Day Makes”. During very brief pauses, the Behringer FULLY and VERY quickly recovered to reveal a low-level buzz in the audio line... I also noticed the same during the newscast that followed. Overall, most of the music (which can differ wildly in that format), Jacob Thomas’ mic, and all the local production sounded very good.

I was originally gonna add an AM Volumax to the Composer, but they wanted to stay in stereo, so plan B was the barefoot Composer.

OHHH YEAH... That WOULD be “delicious” (especially if it was the old 2RU model 400)... But I’d opt for stereo also.

 

[BobOnTheJob]

I only get over there every couple of weeks, so I'm a gonna listen to this a while & let it either grow on me or irritate me & act accordingly. The stream is either 36 or 40k stereo. The high end & relative lack of swishiness has made me a SurferNetwork fan. Thanks again!

 

[vibe]

MAYBE off topic but I DX the "X" band day and night whereever I go and I'm surprised there aren't more oldies sations on those frequencies which really get out there w/o much of the clutter on the other AM frequencies. A lost opportunity.

 

[hipporadio]

MAYBE off topic but I DX the "X" band day and night whereever I go and I'm surprised there aren't more oldies sations on those frequencies which really get out there w/o much of the clutter on the other AM frequencies. A lost opportunity.

The former WRLL 1690 in Chicago was an EXCEPTIONAL oldies station focused on Top-40 hits from the late 50s thru mid-60s. It was a bit “old” for my “blood”—but I adored it anyway. Their PD, Ron Smith, is a HUGE collector and study of that music and format. The station was “live” with iconic Chicago DJs for most of the day (and well V/T'd overnight).

Unfortunately, after several years around a one-share as a “bottom-feeder” (I really HATE to even apply that term to the superlative 1690), CCU leased the station to a local minority broadcaster, and it became WVON early last fall.

R.I.P. “RealOldies 1690”... Your fans will truly miss you.

Speaking of oldies in the X-band... “The small B (blow-torch) in the Big D (Dallas)” www.1650oldiesradio.com a Part 15 on 1650 with a whopping 100-millwatts is a sweet treat indeed! The music, jingles, vintage commercials, self-deprecating liners, parody promos, and "classic AM" processing add-up to an entertaining and very amusing listen. It is the ultimate “hobby” with a lot of “inside humor”.

 

[BobOnTheJob]

Hey Hippo...I was at WIFE (superoldies1580.com) today & failed to hear the buzz being sucked up, so I didn't reduce the amount of compression. Oldies is the place you can get away with more compression & blame it on trying to make it sound like AM did in the day. I did however increase the attack time & change the comp ratio from 10:1 to 5:1...two changes that should have mitigated the occasional "smack" on some songs. I welcome your evaluation.

 

[hipporadio]

Bob, actually I switched over to their stream from SurferNetwork earlier this morning and noticed a very nice improvement. My stream on VPN is recovered by a Carver TX11b/McKay-Dymek active antenna which is on the north side of Connersville. WIFE does fairly well there on lower power, but at 7AM (in February) all the far-easterly 1580s hike to their day power a half-hour before sunrise in eastern Indiana—and WIFE gets clobbered until they raise power at 7:30AM.

You now have the stream sounding really nice... Actually it is much better then the mid-bitrate feeds from the assorted CCU stations (which sound like they’re tripping thru an Eventide flanger)! I think that I’m starting to like this SurferNetwork outfit... I seem to hear less of the infamous “swish” on their streams. I listened more closely between 9:30-10AM, and the quality was very good... The air microphone and recorded sweepers really stand out. They happened to play Smokey Robinson’s “Tears of a Clown” which for some reason invites a lot of digital artifacts on internet streams—it sounded much better than typical on the WIFE stream.

So now they have superlative over-the-air quality and a good-sounding stream to boot