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Small market formats in nc

V

virgilstreetnc

What's working in the small markets in North Carolina?

Syndication? Music? All local news/features?

Curious what some of the outer stations are doing to keep locals listening instead of tuning in the 'big city' stations.
 
Can I horn in on your topic and question with a bit of expansion?

In addition to the programming format, are there any small market stations that seem to have a business model or community relationship that is remarkable that contributes to their ability to succeed, holding their ground against big city radio?
 
How small are we talking? There are the two talkers who battle it out in Greenville. But Greenville's pretty big.

There's also Carl Lamm's station over in Smithfield. That's a lot smaller than Greenville.
 
w00t said:
How small are we talking? There are the two talkers who battle it out in Greenville. But Greenville's pretty big.

There's also Carl Lamm's station over in Smithfield. That's a lot smaller than Greenville.
Click to expand...

What is the old cliche? "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder!"

30 years ago I would have said Greenville is a "small market". By the time you roll-up Greenville with Abbeville and maybe another burg or two and maybe another station or two, you have this odd situation: Lots of radio stations who have to butt heads the way the big city boys do for both revenue and audience, and yet the market place is much like the places we would ALL agree ARE small markets.

(Question: Do small market listeners expect anything differenct from their radio station than what big market listeners expect from their radio stations?)

If Greenville is a market you want to think of as small, describe the programming (and business practicies) that would be useable in other truly small markets.
 
Yeah I don't think we're talking about the same Greenville. Abbeville is in South Carolina. We're talking about Greenville NORTH Carolina :)
 
w00t said:
Yeah I don't think we're talking about the same Greenville. Abbeville is in South Carolina. We're talking about Greenville NORTH Carolina :)
Click to expand...

My bad! :eek:

Greenville NC is larger than Greenville SC.

I guess most of what I said earlier holds true here also. It's bigger than what I think of when I say small market radio, but to someone used to metropolitan markets, it is a small market.
 
No Greenville SC is by far larger than its NC counterpart, but the NC one has 80,000 people now. That's far from small -- my comparison above (Smithfield) has 15k if memory serves me right.

Our market is Greenville-New Bern-Jacksonville. In Greenville there are a couple "local" stations. Everyone else super-serves the entire market as best they can (there are only two or three signals that truly cover the whole thing).
 
w00t said:
Yeah I don't think we're talking about the same Greenville. Abbeville is in South Carolina. We're talking about Greenville NORTH Carolina :)
Click to expand...

"HELLO DETROIT!" he says to the audience in Cleveland ...

Actually to narrow the scope, I'm referring to small market as in the only station of value/news in the county. 1,000 to 5,000 watts AMs with metros on the fringe, but not adjacent. If that makes sense.
 
There is not a radio station (or market) in America that is as big as it thinks it is! Long gone is the day that a station could "own" a town, super serve it's residents and businesses, and make a nice living for it's owners.

I am not talking about the town of Greenville (or Wilmington, or Washington, or whatever) and the small burbs around it, but about the wacky, chamber of commerce, market definitions that include cities who's residents have little or nothing in common and seldom does one cross into the other!

Because of consolidation, it is unlikely that radio will ever be what it once was!
 
virgilstreetnc said:
Actually to narrow the scope, I'm referring to small market as in the only station of value/news in the county. 1,000 to 5,000 watts AMs with metros on the fringe, but not adjacent. If that makes sense.
Click to expand...

I am embarrassed to show my face again. I was thinking GREENWOOD SC when I typed Greenville, and you guys were discussing North Carolina.

I am in tune with your definition, virgilstreenc. They almost don't exist anymore. We used to talk about single-station markets and those of us who worked there assumed they made someone a good living. Now that I look back at some of the places I worked, I'm not sure they made a GOOD living. But in little towns like that, what else makes a good living (whatever that means.)

I have begun calling these little burgs MICRO MARKET RADIO. For the good of the community it probably helps if we envision a different profile for the owner. How about someone who has retired (early or traditional age) and has at least a partial income. That person can operate the Micro Market Station when the man in his 40's trying to make a living, send babies to college, etc. can't do it.

Another example would be female ownership where husband has a solid job. If you have been poking around in small market radio, including the the Greenville size markets, women have become very, very prominent in the sales force. I can see these ladies taking control of small stations and doing well with them.

So, back to the program. What services, what programming, what community service concepts are working? What would you try if you were in the driver's seat?
 
i think two stations in enc that hold their own agianst bigger sticks and more power stations are 99x..with blando and mick holding it down after lex and terry,they keep it rocking and add a great local connection and on the other end the country bear..no website or major giveaways but hammer and dan miller keep it real on a local level too....and check their ratings out..
 
I'm really happy for the Bear.Hammer is a great morning and he earns every penny
because they work him to death.Dann is a really nice person..he's a little hard to follow sometimes but he is sharp...I hope they can get into a situation one day that they can hire a live,local afternnon guy.I really believe that is a big missing piece for the Bear.It is a small staff that works their tails off and they deserve the success they are having.

Allen
 
XTalker said:
There is not a radio station (or market) in America that is as big as it thinks it is! Long gone is the day that a station could "own" a town, super serve it's residents and businesses, and make a nice living for it's owners.

IBecause of consolidation, it is unlikely that radio will ever be what it once was!
Click to expand...

In addition to consolidation, there are other reasons radio will never be the same thing it once was. But, neither will the barber shop, the car dealership, the skating rink or the local feed mill.

North Carolina was something of a pioneer in establishing radio in the smallest of burgs. In 1964 I was working in Illinois in a town of 11,000 or so and we were the only station in town. A town serving heavy-duty corn-belt farmers and a town with some substantial industry. We thought anyone who would start a station in a town of 6,000 or less was very gutsy. My boss had a trade-out with a resort at Lake Fontana. We ran the ads. All my advertising customers would say: "Well, I see Charlie is getting ready to go on vacation."

Charlie came back from Lake Fontana telling me about running into this guy with call letters on his vehicle and getting into conversation. He was from Murphy. We began looking up the numbers and I think the population of Murphy at that time was about 2,000 people, and as we went through the Broadcasting Yearbook (Remember those? 8) ) we realized that little old Murphy had TWO stations.

I got out my atlas and the yearbook and spent my spare time in them for about a week or so. I made a list of all the places that were maybe 4,000 or smaller that had radio stations. It was unbelievable compared to what we were used to in Missouri, Iowa, Illinois, Indiana, etc.

Xtalker: I think it is possible to still operate in a small town and "own" the town. I want one more change to prove that it can be done. It's not easy with so many little malfunctioning coffee-pots wired up to towers now'adays.

Oh, I went through the atlas yesterday looking for small markets in NC that are isolated enough from metro areas to actually create a modern day version of that old memory. What we need is an electronic forest fire to get rid of some of the "underbrush". ;D
 
i agree with you allen on the live afternoon jock..and a website wouldn't hurt either..with the bear..they all work hard there and it pays off in the ratings..but i wonder if classic country is a hard sale..they like it but will they (sponsors) buy it..i wonder how their billing is,may have something to do with no live afternoon guy...anyway..good to have you back on the board allen..you are the heart of this board..so don't go away..let's get things popping here on radio-info...
 
Thanks for the kind words Pee Wee.Everyone on this board has great ideas and I enjoy sharing thoughts about radio and I hope I add something positive to our disscussions. As for the Bear...I think classic country is a very fertile format in Eastern NC.There has always been a large audience for it.There have been many
snotty high and mighties who snickered at the idea or found it below their greatness to do it but I'll bet several of those people wish they had listened to me and a few others and done it before the Bear came about.I remember having chats with the guy who owned 1250 as far back as 1989 and he thought I was nuts.I have loved and believed in the format for a long time.The Bear needs a live, in studio afternoon jock.You could do so many things that you could sell with a live show that you can't do with a voice tracker who is 3 hours away from the market you serve. I understand the money issue but I think you would make it back quickly selling audience interaction... contest... etc...The Bear also needs to be careful being so repetative.I know most stations are... but with Classic Country the same songs over and over will hurt you eventually.If an audience loves an artist they love almost everything by that artist.The Bear would do well doing their own music in house.They need someone who just concentrates on the Bear's music only.Massaging the music daily is very important for the format.Classic Country is not a hard sell.. what is hard is finding somone who knows how to sell it.The audience is very passionate and if a sales
rep is not passionate or doesn't know the format then it becomes a tough sale..
Again I greatly admire what the Bear has accomplished.They have done alot with
a little.I am happy for all involved.I think with a few tweaks the Bear could be a top 5 station.The station has great people who I admire and I hope they continue to have success.Dann and the crew have alot to be proud of.

Allen
 
Allen and I our taking plays from the same playbook. I agree with you Allen. Classic country can be a success in ENC. I programmed a station back in the 90's, WKGK. It only had a power of 3,000 watts, but, using ABC's Real Country format and mornings and afternoons live, we were able to give WRNS a run for their money. The station was located in Kinston and is now WELS FM. I put the Bears on the air (94.1 & 97.7) as well with the All 70's format. At that time I tried to convince Dr. Benfield to make them country. I was able to make 1230 WLNR in Kinston classic country. WLNR was the old WISP. Wow, time does fly. While I'm on the subject, let's start a conversation about one of the great jocks of enc radio, Eddie Dee. Remember Eddie? He was the reason I got in radio. He lived next door to me in Lenoir county. I was still in high school and he got me a part-time job at WFTC. Rest in Peace Eddie.
 
Classic Country, or Country Oldies, was a format that was a long time coming--but its time has finally arrived. A Country consultant named Joel Raab, I believe, is doing one called Country Legends, that has been a big hit in Hagerstown, Maryland at WPPT--a 3-kw Class A with a signal that isn't exactly a blowtorch. I could be wrong, but I think this is akin to what KTHT(FM) in Houston has been using for 3 or 4 years now. The basic premise is seventies & eighties Country. Not Hank, Sr. or Kitty Wells unless its a weekend specialty show. Seventies & eighties gets you the 45-64 crowd. Hank, Sr. & Kitty gets you the 80+ crowd.

"Real Country" is real cheap to operate, but it does contain significant current content--at least it did the last time I sampled it. And as a Country Oldies fan, that irritates the hell out of me. If I want to hear Carrie Underwood and Taylor Swift, I've got 6 or 8 other buttons I can push to get them. Give me some Don Williams or Alabama.
 
When I programmed using Real Country they had a rule not to add any currents that sounded too pop. That was about 15 years ago. We added Alan Jackson, Strait and the others that sounded true to country. Their method seems to have changed! We did not play Billy Ray Cyrus and even some Garth back then. Give me Haggard and Jones anytime. For the record, Carrie Underwood ain't country.
 
I just get tired of hearing East Bound & Down what seems like 15 times a week.Jerry Reed had alot of hits.. play them all.If it was a top 10 song play it.If it was a top 20 play them occasionally too.That is my gripe with Bear.. the playlist is way too narrow.The guy who consults them is Cal Casey.He seems to be a really nice guy.We have spoken on the phone a couple of times.He called me back in November and gave me a list of about 50 songs he said he simply could not find anywhere.I had them all(the original versions and all on CD) Cal wasn't looking very hard.I have also noticed the Bear is getting more into the 90's.There is nothing wrong with that if you are playing all the 60's,70's and 80's you should be.Again I'm not being critical I just think that the Bear needs to probably double the playlist.It needs to be kept fresh because it can get stale in a hurry.Again this is just my opinion.Firecop is a helluva good country programmer.He loves the tunes just like I do.Firecop you and I need a classic country station.I think we could do it pretty well if we could keep corporate out of our hair.Eddie Dee was a great radio guy....Sammy Westbrook is my favorite of all time.In my opinion 95% of the "country" music on the radio today stinks.Its as bad as it has ever been.
It all sounds the same.Very sad.I hope the tide will turn back soon.I just can't listen to the crap on the charts today....

Allen
 
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