Small Radio Stations

[KeithThompson]

Re: That's a fair criticism

I'm not saying that the FCC should force non-comm commercial stations to the FM band. All I'm saying is that it is an option that should be offered, the owners of the frequencies don't have to accept the offer.

As for bringing up my Libertarian free market views, I think my idea is consistant with that line of thought. Why does the FCC have a certain spectrum of the FM band designated as non-commercial? That's a regulation that I'd like to do away with. Essentially what opening up the left side of the dial to commercial broadcasting does is increase the value of the station, so the owner of the signal can either air programming that maximizes the value or they can earn a nice profit by selling the frequency to another broadcaster that will find a use for the frequency. When the FCC limits how a radio station can raise its funding, that's not a free market economy at work.

> Somehow I don't think WHYY-FM or any other NPR station would
> want to be bumped to the second tier of radio (AM). My
> guess is most college stations also wouldn't want to be
> moved. As you all point out so often most people under 45
> will not listen to AM radio, so moving those eclectic
> formats there would not bring them more listeners. Even a
> station playing Big Band music that appeals to the 65+ crowd
> would prefer FM to AM if given the choice. Granted that
> demo would listen to AM to hear their music, but would
> prefer their music on static free FM just like everyone
> else. Just because a format isn't the most popular format
> that appeals to that special demo doesn't justify forcing
> them to go to AM. The CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corp)
> moved many of their stations from AM to FM for that same
> reason of not wanting to lose the younger demo as their
> audience, thus the old 740 CBT Toronto and 930 CBM Montreal
> are now on FM. Unfortunately, AM is the second tier and
> will continue to be the lesser choice. I'm sure that all AM
> station owners would love to make a swap for an FM station,
> but why should those who have them now have to give them up.
>
>
> You free enterprise conservatives and Libertarians really
> suprise me at your wanting "government intrusion". You'd
> want the government to force off small AM stations, just
> because you don't find any value for the informercials and
> brokered programming they air (I don't either), but as a
> legal business they have that right, just as your respective
> stations have the right to try to make a legal profit as
> they see fit. Granted not a large group listens to those
> stations, but apparently enough do or they'd go bankrupt.
> Those mom and pop AM stations like WCOJ, 1550 Elkton, 1260
> WAMS, 1510 WFAI, 900 Philly, 860 Philly, etc have legal
> licenses and provide some sort of radio (I didn't say it
> was compelling or worth listening to in all cases, but I
> could say the same thing for much of what I hear on the
> large AM's and FM's as one man's music is another's noise,
> etc) and as this still is America should be able to stay on
> the air if they can pay their bills.
>
> I realize I express a minority view, at least on this board,
> but if they can make a go of it, then they shouldn't be
> denigned that opportunity, in my opinion.
>
> > That is a fair criticism, because the non-comm part of the
>
> > band does offer eclectic programming that wouldn't be
> > profitable for commercial broadcasters. I certainly
> > recognize that my idea wouldn't be popular with everyone.
> > However, part of the problem with the non-comm part of the
>
> > band is that in some instances it too is cluttered with
> lots
> > of low power stations that few people listen to and my
> idea
> > would move some of this "clutter" to the AM dial...so
> > instead of lots of little AM stations providing nothing
> but
> > brokered programming or canned sports or talk shows, you'd
>
> > have AM stations providing the eclectic programming now
> > available on the non-comm FMs. My idea would instantly
> > increase the value of the FM signals on the left side of
> the
> > dial and would allow the owners of those licenses to earn
> > some profit from the sell and still obtain an AM frequency
>
> > so they can continue to serve the community through their
> > broadcast license. There's no reason why much of the
> > programming on the non-comm FM dial couldn't be done on
> the
> > AM dial, and in many cases would have a wider audience on
> AM
> > than some of the current AMers have right now.
> >
> >
> > > Destroying FM altogether is not a good solution. There
> > are
> > > some of us that consider the frequencies between 88 and
> > > 92(non commercial) the only thing worthwhile listening
> to
> > on
> > > the radio. There is also good reason why XM and Sirius
> > are
> > > gaining new customers every day. When not listening to
> > the
> > > non commercial stations, I turn on XM. I no longer
> listen
> >
> > > to the stations above 92. The solution to the AM mess
> is
> >
> > > another subject.
> > >
> > > > I got my start working for small AM stations in
> > > Southwestern
> > > > Virginia, and they were mostly daytimers. At one
> > > particular
> > > > station, I started there just after the owners signed
> on
> > a
> > >
> > > > sister FM station. They were still running their live
>
> > > > country format on the AM while they made the FM an AC
> > > > station mostly running off of a satellite feed.
> > > Eventually
> > > > (after I left), they moved the AM programming to the
> FM
> > > and
> > > > put a satellite oldies station on the AM. When they
> > were
> > > > able to boost their signal and move their studios to
> > also
> > > > serve a nearby city that lost its only FM station when
>
> > it
> > > > moved to a larger market, they moved their FM station
> > and
> > > > simply signed their AM off the air and turned the
> > > frequency
> > > > back into the FCC. The fact that no one has picked up
>
> > the
> > >
> > > > AM frequency shows the value (or lack thereof) of the
> > > > signal.
> > > >
> > > > Here's my idea. What I would like to see is to open
> up
> > > the
> > > > frequencies between 88 and 92 FM to commercial
> > > broadcasters
> > > > and allow the current owners of local stand alone AMs
> > the
> > > > first crack at getting the new FMs (and I'd set a time
>
> > > > period of perhaps 5 years that they're not allowed to
> > sell
> > >
> > > > the station to keep the stations out of the hands of
> > > larger
> > > > broadcasters). In exchange, the current operators of
> > > those
> > > > non-comm FMs will be allowed ownership of the AM
> > frequency
> > >
> > > > in exchange, free of charge (no FCC license fee) and
> to
> > > run
> > > > as they see fit. I know there are a lot of flaws with
> my
> >
> > > > idea, but there's no perfect solution.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > I am just throwing out this idea for discussion.
> > > > >
> > > > > Several years ago I had a conversation with the OM
> at
> > a
> > > > > AM/FM outlet in this region. The topic was small
> > > > stations.
> > > > >
> > > > > His point was simple. Radio stations which were
> needed
> >
> > > in
> > > > > the new AM license boom of the early 60's are no
> > longer
> > > > > relevant. Today's world does not understand the
> > smaller
> > > > > stations that don't sign on until sunrise and then
> go
> > > off
> > > > at
> > > > > sundown. Or, just as bad, reduce power to 50 watts.
>
> > > > >
> > > > > The News-Journal observed in the late 70's that
> > daytime
> > > > only
> > > > > stations were no longer showing in Arbitron in the
> > > > > Wilmington market. And let's face it: if your power
>
> > is
> > > > only
> > > > > 50 watts (or even less) at night, you are still a
> > > daytime
> > > > > only station.
> > > > >
> > > > > Does Elkton, MD need an AM 1550? No one is
> listening.
> >
> > > > Does
> > > > > Newark need AM1260? Are 860 and 900 serving any
> > useful
> > > > > purpose in Philly? Are stations such as WCHE
> serving
> > a
> > > > > purpose or are they simply taking up space?
> > > > >
> > > > > I come down on the side that these stations should
> be
> > > > taken
> > > > > off the air, allowing other stations to increase
> power
> >
> > > to
> > > > a
> > > > > level that would make them more competitive. One
> > basic
> > > > > issue to be resolved is how do you tell someone who
> > just
> > >
> > > > > paid $250K for a worthless station that he is now
> > going
> > > to
> > > >
> > > > > lose his investment?
> > > > >
> > > > > There are still areas where the small stations still
>
> > > meet
> > > > a
> > > > > need. But they are few.
> > > > >
> > > > > So, what do others think?
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

 

[KeithThompson]

Re: That's a fair criticism

If you open up your non-comm frequency to commercial what happens is that the value of your broadcast license is increased. The license holder (the college) will now hold a commercial license and would now face several options. #1. Maintain the status quo with current programming and current funding. #2. Operate a commercial station with the idea of turning a profit with it. Or #3. it can sell the now more valuable license and in return, receive an AM license (free of charge) along with a tidy profit that could go into buying new transmitters and antennas if needed.

I can cite an example of something similar to what I'm talking about. My alma mater, Virginia Tech, purchased an abandoned AM signal (1260 oddly enough) in their home county for the sole use of putting on a community based public affairs radio station, despite the fact that they also have a student run FM station on campus and a non-comm NPR affiliate in Roanoke.

As for programming, I don't know what your station airs so I don't know if moving to AM would kill your audience or not. But ask yourself this question...if your programming is valuable enough and exclusive enough that your audience can't get anywhere else, why wouldn't they follow you to an AM signal? I worked for the student station at Virginia Tech when it was there, and frankly if it was on a AM signal in town, our listeners would've listened to it if they knew where to find it.


> I run an non-commercial station at a local college. Moving
> to the AM dial would kill our listening audience. We
> provide community programming and music that the commercial
> stations wont play. Why would we want to go AM? Even if we
> did whos paying for the new transmitters and antennas? I
> know my college wont do it.
>

 

[bierkenstock]

AM has its place

In some markets, such as New York, public broadcasting stations do operate AM as well as FM stations, and the arrangment seems to work well. WNYC AM 820 runs NPR news and information programming. WNYC-FM runs mostly classical and fine arts programming. Many land grant universties had AM stations operating since the 20's and later acquired FM stations, as well. They also do news and information on AM and mostly classical and fine arts on FM. At the time WHYY-FM dropped most of their classical programming, Jerry Lee was desperate to unload 560 AM (WFIL) and WHYY could have acquired it, kept their classical programming full time and added news and information on an excellent regional AM signal. But they could not be bothered, thus we have Salem and their brokered preachers on 560. Likewise, 1380 AM has a decent signal which could be put to far better use with public radio news and public affairs than with a continuous loop of out-of-date and inaccurate traffic reports.

The CBC Radio One decision to abandon AM drew its share of criticism and some remote areas lost service for a time. Further, the CBC is a government-owned broadcaster and is able comandeer frequency allocations in a way US commercial broadcasters can not.

The generally-held Libertarian view is that broadcasting should be free of government regulation and frequencies should be auctioned off for a set period of time (after which time they would be auctioned again). Unfortunately, the NAB lobby is powerful and they are unwilling to give up free use of the airwaves and the ability to sell their licenses for a profit. Since the government does not get whatever money they could get for spectrum use, we make up the difference every April 15th. Small stations should be taken off the air because they are a source of interference and degrade the quality of reception on the AM band by interfering with other stations, and because they have poor signals themselves.

WCOJ is owned by Route 81 Broadcasting, which operates 10 stations in Pennsylvania and New York. That disqualifies them as "mom and pop." But you have made it clear that you are a fan of "mom and pop," or at least "mom and son" radio stations, even if you don't want to listen much. From the listener's viewpoint, the only justification for mega broadcasters owning multiple stations in a market and hundreds in total is a better on-air product. That's happened in many small and medium markets but - unfortunately - not Wilmington. So even if some stations are no longer mom and pop or mom and son, they still sound like it.

 

[Dancerev889]

Re: That's a fair criticism

some schools dont look at as we can make money. The school is trying to make the station better with major improvements. We are pushing for a younger audience that probably doesnt know where the AM dial is. I honestly think your idea is not a good solution. Why should the commercial stations get the FM dial? These are the public airwaves. Last time I checked the FCC regulations thats what it says

 

[KeithThompson]

Re: That's a fair criticism

Fair enough.

Keep in mind that I don't have anything against non-comms (I got my start on one), but some of the problems that exist with clutter on the AM dial also exists on the FM dial, especially on the non-comm part. Any solution to the problem will make somebody unhappy.

> some schools dont look at as we can make money. The school
> is trying to make the station better with major
> improvements. We are pushing for a younger audience that
> probably doesnt know where the AM dial is. I honestly think
> your idea is not a good solution. Why should the commercial
> stations get the FM dial? These are the public airwaves.
> Last time I checked the FCC regulations thats what it says
>

 

[Jim_Hicks]

Re: That's a fair criticism

Another issue has entered the non-comm realm.

You still have the college/high school stations. That end of the dial was originally for them. However, now those frequencies are now home to commercial stations that beg for money AND send sales reps around selling ads! They are actually selling ads and running ads just like the big corp stations. Sponsorships? I have no problem with that. But many of the Contemporary "Christian" station are commercial operations.In my mind, they are operating illegally. Think WXHL.

> Fair enough.
>
> Keep in mind that I don't have anything against non-comms (I
> got my start on one), but some of the problems that exist
> with clutter on the AM dial also exists on the FM dial,
> especially on the non-comm part. Any solution to the
> problem will make somebody unhappy.
>
> > some schools dont look at as we can make money. The
> school
> > is trying to make the station better with major
> > improvements. We are pushing for a younger audience that
> > probably doesnt know where the AM dial is. I honestly
> think
> > your idea is not a good solution. Why should the
> commercial
> > stations get the FM dial? These are the public airwaves.
>
> > Last time I checked the FCC regulations thats what it says
>
> >
>

 

[bierkenstock]

Shut down student radio

No, that's not what "the regs" say. The Communications Act (as ammended) says broadcast stations are licensed to "serve the public interest, convenience and necessity." It does not say radio stations get to have bandwidth as a toy for kids to play with. The quality of undergraduates and recent graduates attempting to enter the radio business suggests schools are not teaching students basic and essential academic and intellectual skills. Maybe schools would better serve the public if students spent less time playing DJ and more time studying real science, social science, math and liberal arts subjects. A real education might come in handy once your students realize they are unlikely to make a decent living in radio and the time they spent playing a student radio station was totally wasted.


> some schools dont look at as we can make money. The school
> is trying to make the station better with major
> improvements. We are pushing for a younger audience that
> probably doesnt know where the AM dial is. I honestly think
> your idea is not a good solution. Why should the commercial
> stations get the FM dial? These are the public airwaves.
> Last time I checked the FCC regulations thats what it says
>

 

[radiophile]

Re: Shut down student radio

> No, that's not what "the regs" say. The Communications Act
> (as ammended) says broadcast stations are licensed to "serve
> the public interest, convenience and necessity." It does
> not say radio stations get to have bandwidth as a toy for
> kids to play with. The quality of undergraduates and recent
> graduates attempting to enter the radio business suggests
> schools are not teaching students basic and essential
> academic and intellectual skills. Maybe schools would
> better serve the public if students spent less time playing
> DJ and more time studying real science, social science, math
> and liberal arts subjects. A real education might come in
> handy once your students realize they are unlikely to make a
> decent living in radio and the time they spent playing a
> student radio station was totally wasted.
>
I respectfully disagree.
For a good example of student radio, see Thursday's Inquirer, front of local section about Iraq War Radio on Swarthmore College's FM.
An argument could be made that it IS in the public interest to have radio stations for high school and college students. Students will learn some responsibility by having their own air time that they have to plan, fill, be accountable for, etc.
I do wish I had a second major in college - something more useful instead of a journalism degree.
However, I do wish more colleges would link their communication programs with their FM stations. It's amazing how colleges teach theory in the classroom, and then ignore that they have a real resource for learning at their FM stations. Colleges will hire professional GMs, PDs, etc. for their stations but have different people teach the classroomm courses, never the two shall meet.

 

[Dancerev889]

Re: Shut down student radio

Thats not what i was implying. I said that they are the "public airwaves" if you read the statement prior to that

 

[NYRadioGM]

Re: No way

The FCC rules already permit AM stations to buy other AM stations and take them dark to improve their coverage. Here in NYC, WWRL bought two 1590's and WLNG 1600 to do just that. So, let the big owners pony up the cash to purchase the stations in their way, if they so desire.

> Apparently you did not read my post. I was talking about AM
> stations. Not FM.
>
> > I don't care if there are only 6 listeners. We don't need
> to
> > give any more power to the stations that are running 50ks
> > with computers. I just heard "Time to Say goodbye" on
> > community radio WRDV 107.3, followed with a jazz solo, and
>
> > it all made my heart stir. Let's not say goodbye to the
> > best diversity on the radio in favor of that bland canned
> > Sunny 104-5 ad that plays itself into the ground. These
> > stations don't need more power, we need to plunk down the
> > extra $10 on something more than a shower radio is all.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > I am just throwing out this idea for discussion.
> > >
> > > Several years ago I had a conversation with the OM at a
> > > AM/FM outlet in this region. The topic was small
> > stations.
> > >
> > > His point was simple. Radio stations which were needed
> in
> > > the new AM license boom of the early 60's are no longer
> > > relevant. Today's world does not understand the smaller
> > > stations that don't sign on until sunrise and then go
> off
> > at
> > > sundown. Or, just as bad, reduce power to 50 watts.
> > >
> > > The News-Journal observed in the late 70's that daytime
> > only
> > > stations were no longer showing in Arbitron in the
> > > Wilmington market. And let's face it: if your power is
> > only
> > > 50 watts (or even less) at night, you are still a
> daytime
> > > only station.
> > >
> > > Does Elkton, MD need an AM 1550? No one is listening.
> > Does
> > > Newark need AM1260? Are 860 and 900 serving any useful
> > > purpose in Philly? Are stations such as WCHE serving a
> > > purpose or are they simply taking up space?
> > >
> > > I come down on the side that these stations should be
> > taken
> > > off the air, allowing other stations to increase power
> to
> > a
> > > level that would make them more competitive. One basic
> > > issue to be resolved is how do you tell someone who just
>
> > > paid $250K for a worthless station that he is now going
> to
> >
> > > lose his investment?
> > >
> > > There are still areas where the small stations still
> meet
> > a
> > > need. But they are few.
> > >
> > > So, what do others think?
> > >
> >
>