M
mountaineer
Guest
Salty dog, indeed!
Yup, pretty damn salty!
You really have significant experience with this touchy subject--there's no doubt about that. And I don't doubt Arbitron's official position: that college students aren't supposed to get measured. But there's a lot of evidence in the State College market (and Ithaca, Ann Arbor, Champaign, Iowa City, Tuscaloosa, Athens) that most students at large universities DO come into play.
Why? Well, think about State College. Roughly 42,000 students; around 7,000 of 'em are grad students--most in the 25-34 demo, and ALL living off campus. Of the 35,000 undergrads, only about 13,000 live in PSU housing--22,000 don't. Many of us have the misfortune of having some of them live in OUR neighborhoods. And because so many--literally thousands of them--are spread all over town, Arbitron can't help but include them. Look at the evidence in State College.
Let's see if I remember how to do this. Go to your Maximizer program and punch "stations." Create a "combo" that includes all stations in the market (call it "All Radio"). Then go to "estimates" and pick Cume Persons. Run a report for Mon-Sun 6A-Mid (the whole week) for each demo: P12-17, P18-24, P25-34, P35-44, P45-54, et cetera). What that shows is the total number of different people who listened to radio at least once during the week in each demo.
I'll betcha a 6-pack of your favorite brew that the 6-year bracket of people between 18 & 24--the "undergrads"--is much larger than any other 10-year bracket in other age groups. And I'll bet the 25-34 group is the next largest. I'll also bet that the 18-24 total is damn close to PSU's undergrad enrollment.
If you do the same thing in Altoona or Williamsport, the 18-24 group will be among the smallest bunch of listeners.
Point is, they ARE being measured, regardless of what Arbitron says. And if that's the case, you can't afford to pretend that they're not.
Give it a try and let us know how it comes out in real life.
>
> About ten years ago I sat in on an Arbitron small
> market advisory meeting in which I asked about the students
> at Penn State and other college towns. Diaries do not go to
> students, they don’t they are NOT county residents; they
> don’t have a mailing/ billing address here. Arbitron can’t
> claim the old barracks and temporary housing deal as you
> mentioned months ago. Mailers go out to PERMINANT
> addressees not addresses in the market and are designed to
> target the people who are residents not “transients” my
> issue is that for four to eight years those “transients” are
> here not at home.
>
> No books to the dorms, no books to the apartments. However
> you can rest assured that a rural female that is the type
> who clips coupons and will take time to do a survey will
> react in a certain way. If she is told that she will get
> cash for each diary filled out for that household she will
> fill out one for her, one for dad, one for each kid and she
> might not be very accurate. We could shot holes all day in
> the survey after all look at the multiples already and the
> sample size has to be tiny for the last three to have the
> same exact share.
>
> As for the points that your buddy at Arbitron said about
> Ipods I posted about those trends a few weeks ago, it showed
> that its about 13% of the total population have one and it
> does not replace radio. In the younger demo its share is
> surprisingly smaller too. I think you have made great
> points about why what stations did what they did here and
> how they are rated and perceived. From what you write you
> are a salty dog in the business, I just fought this fight
> first hand with Arbitron in person at the round table, and
> they told me that students were no counted because well,
> they “don’t count”. -TS
>
>
>
> > It's not that we don't understand the absence of Arbitron
> > diaries in "group housing," or the difference between
> > temporary addresses and permanent addresses. But you seem
> to
> > be under the impression that the huge bulge in Centre
> > County's population curve in the 18-24/18-34 cells, and
> the
> > corresponding huge bulge in the Arbitron listening profile
>
> > for the market, isn't caused by Penn State students. You
> > may just have to trust us on this: in markets without
> major
> > universities, you don't have this. (And, if you do nothing
>
> > but apply a little common sense, it'll occur to you that
> all
> > 42,000 PSU students aren't living in dorms, frats or
> "group
> > homes." If you have a normal residential phone number,
> > you're in Arbitron's database of potential diary keepers.
> > Betcha a dollar most of the 42,000 fall into that
> category).
> >
> >
> > Or suit yourself and pretend they don't count.
> >
> >
> > > Permnant address guys, I had an adress in Lock Haven and
>
> > > Bellefonte, Bellefonte was my permnant address, but I
> > > recived mail in Lock Haven.
> > >
> >
>
Yup, pretty damn salty!
You really have significant experience with this touchy subject--there's no doubt about that. And I don't doubt Arbitron's official position: that college students aren't supposed to get measured. But there's a lot of evidence in the State College market (and Ithaca, Ann Arbor, Champaign, Iowa City, Tuscaloosa, Athens) that most students at large universities DO come into play. Why? Well, think about State College. Roughly 42,000 students; around 7,000 of 'em are grad students--most in the 25-34 demo, and ALL living off campus. Of the 35,000 undergrads, only about 13,000 live in PSU housing--22,000 don't. Many of us have the misfortune of having some of them live in OUR neighborhoods.
And because so many--literally thousands of them--are spread all over town, Arbitron can't help but include them. Look at the evidence in State College. Let's see if I remember how to do this. Go to your Maximizer program and punch "stations." Create a "combo" that includes all stations in the market (call it "All Radio"). Then go to "estimates" and pick Cume Persons. Run a report for Mon-Sun 6A-Mid (the whole week) for each demo: P12-17, P18-24, P25-34, P35-44, P45-54, et cetera). What that shows is the total number of different people who listened to radio at least once during the week in each demo.
I'll betcha a 6-pack of your favorite brew that the 6-year bracket of people between 18 & 24--the "undergrads"--is much larger than any other 10-year bracket in other age groups. And I'll bet the 25-34 group is the next largest. I'll also bet that the 18-24 total is damn close to PSU's undergrad enrollment.
If you do the same thing in Altoona or Williamsport, the 18-24 group will be among the smallest bunch of listeners.
Point is, they ARE being measured, regardless of what Arbitron says. And if that's the case, you can't afford to pretend that they're not.
Give it a try and let us know how it comes out in real life.
>
> About ten years ago I sat in on an Arbitron small
> market advisory meeting in which I asked about the students
> at Penn State and other college towns. Diaries do not go to
> students, they don’t they are NOT county residents; they
> don’t have a mailing/ billing address here. Arbitron can’t
> claim the old barracks and temporary housing deal as you
> mentioned months ago. Mailers go out to PERMINANT
> addressees not addresses in the market and are designed to
> target the people who are residents not “transients” my
> issue is that for four to eight years those “transients” are
> here not at home.
>
> No books to the dorms, no books to the apartments. However
> you can rest assured that a rural female that is the type
> who clips coupons and will take time to do a survey will
> react in a certain way. If she is told that she will get
> cash for each diary filled out for that household she will
> fill out one for her, one for dad, one for each kid and she
> might not be very accurate. We could shot holes all day in
> the survey after all look at the multiples already and the
> sample size has to be tiny for the last three to have the
> same exact share.
>
> As for the points that your buddy at Arbitron said about
> Ipods I posted about those trends a few weeks ago, it showed
> that its about 13% of the total population have one and it
> does not replace radio. In the younger demo its share is
> surprisingly smaller too. I think you have made great
> points about why what stations did what they did here and
> how they are rated and perceived. From what you write you
> are a salty dog in the business, I just fought this fight
> first hand with Arbitron in person at the round table, and
> they told me that students were no counted because well,
> they “don’t count”. -TS
>
>
>
> > It's not that we don't understand the absence of Arbitron
> > diaries in "group housing," or the difference between
> > temporary addresses and permanent addresses. But you seem
> to
> > be under the impression that the huge bulge in Centre
> > County's population curve in the 18-24/18-34 cells, and
> the
> > corresponding huge bulge in the Arbitron listening profile
>
> > for the market, isn't caused by Penn State students. You
> > may just have to trust us on this: in markets without
> major
> > universities, you don't have this. (And, if you do nothing
>
> > but apply a little common sense, it'll occur to you that
> all
> > 42,000 PSU students aren't living in dorms, frats or
> "group
> > homes." If you have a normal residential phone number,
> > you're in Arbitron's database of potential diary keepers.
> > Betcha a dollar most of the 42,000 fall into that
> category).
> >
> >
> > Or suit yourself and pretend they don't count.
> >
> >
> > > Permnant address guys, I had an adress in Lock Haven and
>
> > > Bellefonte, Bellefonte was my permnant address, but I
> > > recived mail in Lock Haven.
> > >
> >
>