Smooth Jazz in Austin?

[eepstein]

I have always wondered why a overall higher than average educated metro area like Austin does not have a smooth jazz station. Obviously it has been tried in the past on 92.1 and 93.3. I have to assume that was signal related (especially KQJZ). I believe that on a citygrade signal in Austin, smooth jazz could suceed. I look at other cities smaller or about the same size as Austin with long running smooth jazz stations. Look at Colorado Springs, Fresno, Orlando, and Salt Lake city. Im sure there are many others--What gets me is that in the rankings of "highly educated cities" all of those come in BELOW Austin (some WAY below). Maybe there isn't any true coorelation. Any thoughts??

Heck, my old stomping grounds of Modesto, CA has had KRVR since I went to college there back in the mid 90's.!! Modesto/Stockton area is about as uneducated overall as metro areas go! What gives??

 

[txchipk]

Too young? (Re: Smooth Jazz in Austin?)

> I have always wondered why a overall higher than average
> educated metro area like Austin does not have a smooth jazz
> station. Obviously it has been tried in the past on 92.1
> and 93.3. I have to assume that was signal related
> (especially KQJZ). I believe that on a citygrade signal in
> Austin, smooth jazz could suceed. I look at other cities
> smaller or about the same size as Austin with long running
> smooth jazz stations. Look at Colorado Springs, Fresno,
> Orlando, and Salt Lake city. Im sure there are many
> others--What gets me is that in the rankings of "highly
> educated cities" all of those come in BELOW Austin (some WAY
> below). Maybe there isn't any true coorelation. Any
> thoughts??

I'm not sure that "highly educated" is the dominant characteristic that determines whether or not people want a smooth jazz outlet. I have two Master's degrees and no interest in listening to old Phil Collins
songs.

I suspect it doesn't work in Austin since Austin is a young city. Well over 80% of the people who make up the smooth jazz audience are over 35 (over 40% of the overall audience is 55+) according to the Arbitron quarterly composition reports they have on their website. The median age of Austin is 29.6.

You can look at the data here:
http://wargod.arbitron.com/scripts/ndb/audience2.asp

With all the talk of 60s/70s oldies formats having too old demos, I surprised no one talks about smooth jazz being too old. The number breakdowns are similar.

> Heck, my old stomping grounds of Modesto, CA has had KRVR
> since I went to college there back in the mid 90's.!!
> Modesto/Stockton area is about as uneducated overall as
> metro areas go! What gives??

Modesto's demographics would suggest there are more people in
the age groups that listen to smooth jazz. For the 2000 Census,

18-24 Austin: 17% Modesto: 10%
25-44 Austin: 37% Modesto: 29%

It also probably doesn't hurt KRVR that Modesto has half the number of FM stations than Austin to compete against.

Though not in the Arbitron data, I have to believe the audience make-up is
more female than male. Austin has more men than women and Modesto has more
women than men, according to the last census.


Chip
http://users4.ev1.net/~chipk/ac/airchecks.html

 

[jras20]

Re: Too young? (Re: Smooth Jazz in Austin?)

I wonder why Dance never would try to make a come back? I think Austin would be a prime area for a dance radiostation. If they program it right, I think one of the things that Mega 93 mest up on was that they played to much underground music, They didnt please the "cheese" crowd or "top 40 remix" crowd as like they should of done. I think if it was programmed just right with current dance tracks & top 40 with cheese it would probably make a good run here in Austin.
<P ID="signature">______________
jras20</P>

 

[Mediafrog]

Re: Too young? (Re: Smooth Jazz in Austin?)

> I have two Master's degrees and no
> interest in listening to old Phil Collins
> songs.

The 70's and 80's AC style rock, along with the 60's and 70's R&B that gets mixed in on Smooth Jazz stations can be awfully tiresome to the point of burnout. But I suppose those tunes keep both Anglo and African-American Baby Boomers hanging around during some of the less familiar pop-jazz stuff.

> I suspect it doesn't work in Austin since Austin is a young
> city.

It also has its own unique musical culture, which doesn't seem to fit well with Smooth Jazz. The trendy demos are into live rock/folk/country, while Austin's older boomers might be happy with the mainstream formats. Smooth Jazz may be too "east/west coast" as well as being viewed as too cookie cutter commercial for Austin's eclectic musical tastes.

 

[eepstein]

Re: Too young? (Re: Smooth Jazz in Austin?)

Yeah, I would like to see a dance format in Austin. Since I consider 104.3 and 93.3 to be two completely wasted signals, either one of those would suffice. I guess I understand somewhat about the smooth jazz format....but I still think it could work here if done correctly.

> I wonder why Dance never would try to make a come back? I
> think Austin would be a prime area for a dance radiostation.
> If they program it right, I think one of the things that
> Mega 93 mest up on was that they played to much underground
> music, They didnt please the "cheese" crowd or "top 40
> remix" crowd as like they should of done. I think if it was
> programmed just right with current dance tracks & top 40
> with cheese it would probably make a good run here in
> Austin.
>

 

[jras20]

Re: Too young? (Re: Smooth Jazz in Austin?)

> Yeah, I would like to see a dance format in Austin. Since I
> consider 104.3 and 93.3 to be two completely wasted signals,
> either one of those would suffice. I guess I understand
> somewhat about the smooth jazz format....but I still think
> it could work here if done correctly.
>

I just cant see how 2 radio stations playing the same format will make it. But maybe they will, who knows, I still wish someone in San antonio will launch a Real hiphop station, 98.5 is probably worse than hot 93 & the beat, but they are still number one I just dont get that...

<P ID="signature">______________
jras20</P><P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by jras20 on 07/29/05 01:56 PM.</FONT></P>

 

[snoman]

Re: Too young? (Re: Smooth Jazz in Austin?)

> > Yeah, I would like to see a dance format in Austin. Since
> I
> > consider 104.3 and 93.3 to be two completely wasted
> signals,
> > either one of those would suffice. I guess I understand
> > somewhat about the smooth jazz format....but I still think
>
> > it could work here if done correctly.
> >
>
> I just cant see how 2 radio stations playing the same format
> will make it. But maybe they will, who knows, I still wish
> someone in San antonio will launch a Real hiphop station,
> 98.5 is probably worse than hot 93 & the beat, but they are
> still number one I just dont get that...
>

A couple of points. The difference between KBBT and some other hip-hop stations across the country is that KBBT is going after Hispanics. It is a different listening audience than say KBXX here in Houston, which is basically going after young African-Americans. KBBT is number one, because of they are targeting the right demographic group for that city. I'm not sure that San Antonio would support a Hip-Hop station like KBXX here in Houston. Granted, the African-American population in San Antonio continues to grow, which is great, but I'd be leary to go in that direction yet. With that being said though, Cox ought to try it on 106.7, just to try and gauge the market. They probably couldn't do any worse than what they are doing right now, as far as ratings go. I have not listened to 93.3 in Austin to figure out what they are doing, but I'm sure given their signal pattern and the way they hit the Killeen, Belton, Temple, Waco regions, that they are catering the young African-American population in that region, and taking into affect the long term success of KIIZ/Killeen. Emmis is trying to capitalize on that, as well as serve the young African-Americans and Hispanics in Austin. That is why they sound different than KBBT.

As far as an all-Dance format goes, I think it would be a hard-sell. It is one of those formats like Punk or Hard, Hard Rock (Death Metal, I believe is what they call it), that just has a "cult" type of audience. The numbers for most dance stations kind of like 106.7 was doing in Dallas and Energy 92.5 in Chicago, were just so minimal, that it just wasn't a good business move. I do think CHR/Pop stations like KHFI or one of the CHR/Rhythmic stations (104.3 or 93.3) would benefit from doing "Dance" shows. Austin is a "weird" city, by their own admission and it is great to see the culture shock that you don't see much in other Texas cities, but I still think an All-Dance format would be a hard-sell even in Austin.

Smooth Jazz is the same way. I think it could do better than Dance and don't sell Austin short as far as the older demos go, after all, the two Country stations are sitting at the Top of the Heap and KKMJ always seems to pull solid numbers. I think a station like Jammin 105.9 could benefit by doing a Smooth Jazz show, or KKMJ. They could already be doing it and I just don't know, because I don't live there. I just don't see Smooth Jazz being an option for a format choice in Austin. <P ID="signature">______________
The Bitterness of Poor Quality Lingers Long After The Sweetness of Low Price Is Long Forgotten.</P>

 

[eepstein]

Re: Too young? (Re: Smooth Jazz in Austin?)

I am pretty amazed myself at the success of radio stations such as KXBT and KDHT. Two stations with the same 20 song playlist, and the same type of songs. Men whining about women, women whining about men. Pretty limited indeed. THere seems to be a fair amount of people out there who actually like this type of music. Dance could be a hard sell. Has it really succeded anywhere it was tried in the country? It seems to me every station that tried it, failed.

> > Yeah, I would like to see a dance format in Austin. Since
> I
> > consider 104.3 and 93.3 to be two completely wasted
> signals,
> > either one of those would suffice. I guess I understand
> > somewhat about the smooth jazz format....but I still think
>
> > it could work here if done correctly.
> >
>
> I just cant see how 2 radio stations playing the same format
> will make it. But maybe they will, who knows, I still wish
> someone in San antonio will launch a Real hiphop station,
> 98.5 is probably worse than hot 93 & the beat, but they are
> still number one I just dont get that...
>

 

[jras20]

Re: Too young? (Re: Smooth Jazz in Austin?)

>They realy wouldnt be to bad if they would just add some new music every now and then, I heard though Sirius was about the same way with hiphop is that true? The real thing I hate about Satellite radio is that you cant realy jog with it without having a repeater near by. or realy take it along anywere without having to take along a extra antenna // battery.<P ID="signature">______________
jras20</P>

 

[Kent]

> I have always wondered why a overall higher than average
> educated metro area like Austin does not have a smooth jazz
> station. Obviously it has been tried in the past on 92.1
> and 93.3. I have to assume that was signal related
> (especially KQJZ). I believe that on a citygrade signal in
> Austin, smooth jazz could suceed. I look at other cities
> smaller or about the same size as Austin with long running
> smooth jazz stations. Look at Colorado Springs, Fresno,
> Orlando, and Salt Lake city. Im sure there are many
> others--What gets me is that in the rankings of "highly
> educated cities" all of those come in BELOW Austin (some WAY
> below). Maybe there isn't any true coorelation. Any
> thoughts??

I don't think there's a correlation between highly educated people and smooth jazz listeners. After all, in both Kansas City and St Louis, smooth jazz was apparently dumped because a substantial part of its audience was perceived as not possessing enough disposable income to be worth advertisers' while. Low income and high intelligence don't normally go together.

On a side note, I've just returned home from New Mexico. Smooth jazz was so successful in Santa Fe that it has two competing smooth jazz stations as the original smooth jazz for the area was moved to an Albuquerque-only stick (and one of the worst signals in the state). Santa Fe definitely has a lot of highly educated and wealthy people. However, as Chip K points out, age probably has as much, if not more, to do with the success of smooth jazz than anything else. The younger generation of Santa Feans is getting run out of town due to the high real estate prices and cost of living. Not only is the older crowd quite prominent there but there are also plenty of "new age" culture people who not only enjoy the music but also will advertise their businesses on smooth jazz stations. I don't see the same demographic makeup or culture present in Austin.

 

[Mediafrog]

> The younger generation of Santa Feans is getting run out of town
> due to the high real estate prices and cost of living.

Austin also has soaring real estate prices, but in their case its the older generation feeling the crunch. If you've been in the same house for 30-40 years you've probably seen your resale value (and taxes) go up 1,200% at the very least. The younger generation seems less fazed by the high prices.

I grew up in Austin in the 60's, but today I almost don't recognize the place. Long-timers in Santa Fe probably have the same feeling...I recall visiting there as a kid in the early 60's when it was a quiet, isolated place in the mountains, long before anyone had heard of New Age philosophy. Times sure have changed.

 

[marianne]

In 1989, KGSR launched 107.1 fm, The Star under what we called the NAC format...broadcasting from a little shack 30 miles east of town, before they built the studios in town. The Star ..in it's earliest stages was wildly successfull in Austin. It was a combo of smooth jazz.. contemporary jazz, regaee, world music and even some eclectic style vocal music like Joni Mitchell, Steely Dan, Bryan Ferry, Indigo Girls and other very cool stuff. I was on the original staff and will never forget our first concert - George Howard, I believe- at the A-W-H - the staff was introduced and we got a standing ovation from a sold out house, for bringing such great music to Austin. It truly was one of the top 5 experiences I'd ever had in radio. Sadly though, the original owners hired Alan Mason to consult and he started mainstreaming the music...blew out the original programming team and eventually they dropped the jazz part and just went to the AAA format.

But you're right, Austin could support a good quality music station because it's population is loaded with intelligent, diverse, music loving people. Smooth jazz is a tad on the boring side compared to what we did with the NAC format. Nothing I've ever heard, could compare to what we originally did with KGSR.


slave

 

[eepstein]

Well it seems that KGSR and KPEZ are pretty much striving toward that "higher disposable income" demographic. KPEZ seems to be playing somewhat of a "copycat" but with less deep cuts--although listening to them lately, they do have a pretty diverse playlist. KGSR does have a really good Sunday morning smooth jazz show which I enjoy. THe KKMJ smooth jazz show on Sundays isn't nearly as impressive. (although no disrespect to Dave Koz)

> In 1989, KGSR launched 107.1 fm, The Star under what we
> called the NAC format...broadcasting from a little shack 30
> miles east of town, before they built the studios in town.
> The Star ..in it's earliest stages was wildly successfull in
> Austin. It was a combo of smooth jazz.. contemporary jazz,
> regaee, world music and even some eclectic style vocal music
> like Joni Mitchell, Steely Dan, Bryan Ferry, Indigo Girls
> and other very cool stuff. I was on the original staff and
> will never forget our first concert - George Howard, I
> believe- at the A-W-H - the staff was introduced and we got
> a standing ovation from a sold out house, for bringing such
> great music to Austin. It truly was one of the top 5
> experiences I'd ever had in radio. Sadly though, the
> original owners hired Alan Mason to consult and he started
> mainstreaming the music...blew out the original programming
> team and eventually they dropped the jazz part and just went
> to the AAA format.
>
> But you're right, Austin could support a good quality music
> station because it's population is loaded with intelligent,
> diverse, music loving people. Smooth jazz is a tad on the
> boring side compared to what we did with the NAC format.
> Nothing I've ever heard, could compare to what we originally
> did with KGSR.
>
>
> slave
>

 

[RFMan]

Re: Too young? (Re: Smooth Jazz in Austin?)

I think the problems with a dance format station are obvious: 1) How do you define what "dance" music is? There are dozens of dance clubs in Austin and it seems like each one plays a different kind of music....many of the them play different music on different nights and expect a completely different crowd. How do you make that into one format? 2) Who wants to dance all the time? I like listening to "dance" music when I am dancing to it or at a club, but I just get kind of bored with it at other times. Even among people I know who go dancing every night, they still listen to other stuff at other times of the day unless they are just obsessed or a club DJ or something.

Some Austin stations (KHFI to name one) do dance shows on weekend nights usually orginating from a club (the music on air comes straight off the club DJ's board at the club). That's about all I think they can handle.

Smooth Jazz would be great, but while I think it can generate a loyal following....I don't think it will be a very big one. There were protesters when KAJZ (93.3) flipped back to country, but their numbers were never stellar. It seems like nobody wants to be a good solid station in the middle of the pack anymore.