Smooth Jazz in WNY

[Jay_F]

Monitoring the dial here in Las Vegas, the Smooth Jazz station was playing "Give It All You Got" by Chuck Mangione. What an awesome song, such a hypnotic hook. I never cared much for Kenny G, but have always loved Mangione's music.

I did a little research and discovered Chuck Mangione is a Rochester native. Reading about his youth, there must have been quite a large jazz scene in Rochester at one time. Then I thought about another Jazz artist I have always liked, Spyra Gyra, I have long known they are from Buffalo.

Since WNY produced so many Jazz artists, especially the type with pop sensibilities (perfect for Smooth Jazz), I find it curious that neither Buffalo or Rochester has a Smooth Jazz station. Has either market ever had one? I know the format does well in other Great Lakes cities, it does decent in Cleveland and is actually #1 12+ in Detroit.

Do you think Smooth Jazz would do well in WNY? Or are the markets tastes too "country" for smooth jazz to thrive. Speaking of which it looks like both Buffalo and Rochester could use a second country station, WNY appears to be one of the strongest areas in the U.S for country radio, more so than former country strongholds such as Houston.

 

[Muskratt]

> Since WNY produced so many Jazz artists, especially the type
> with pop sensibilities (perfect for Smooth Jazz), I find it
> curious that neither Buffalo or Rochester has a Smooth Jazz
> station. Has either market ever had one?

Rochester has WJZR which is smooth jazz, and WGMC which is traditional jazz 24/7. WBFO in Buffalo also programs traditional jazz outside of the usual NPR fare (Morning Ed., ATC, etc.).

 

[Yeziknoradio]

> > Since WNY produced so many Jazz artists, especially the
> type
> > with pop sensibilities (perfect for Smooth Jazz), I find
> it
> > curious that neither Buffalo or Rochester has a Smooth
> Jazz
> > station. Has either market ever had one?

Buffalo DID have: "Buffalo's Unique way to relax" Smooth Jazz 92.9, but the powers that be decided that it just wasn't working out, so they changed the format. (several times)

I honestly do not know if that format is viable in the Buffalo market today or not, but, if not, there's always Hamilton's Wave 94.7 FM to count on, if that signal can even reach Buffalo. (they also stream: www.wave947.fm/ )

(also note: Easy favorites were also tried in Buffalo, prior to the WNUC country days on 107.7)<P ID="signature">______________
"If you never say NO, How much is your YES worth?"
</P>

 

[Element9]

>
> Do you think Smooth Jazz would do well in WNY? Or are the
> markets tastes too "country" for smooth jazz to thrive.
> Speaking of which it looks like both Buffalo and Rochester
> could use a second country station, WNY appears to be one of
> the strongest areas in the U.S for country radio, more so
> than former country strongholds such as Houston.
>

Chuck Mangione, Gap Mangione, Jay Beckenstein, The Colored Musicians Club, The Tralf, Bud Fadale, Dave Schiavone, Bobby Millatello, The Amherst Saxophone Quartet, Joe Rico, Grover Washington, Jr., just the tip of the proverbial jazz iceberg.

Jazz purists will tell you WBFO is the "home of jazz" in Western New York, but a lot of people enjoyed the homogenized blend that was offered by WSJZ, 92.9 years ago before it dropped the format in favor and call letters in favor of WLCE-Alice 92.9 in April, 1997. Pity that, WSJZ had it's best book just before the format switch. WSJZ may have had the best "qualitative" standing in the market.

Also, for many years WEBR had an outstanding jazz presence in the market, which Al Wallack would be most capable of detailing here. Buffalo has a rich history of jazz, blues and R & B, and while WSJZ was the "commercial" jazz station, it nonetheless contributed to art form.

BTW, WSJZ begat Alice, which begat Dancin' Oldies, which begat WBUF which begat Jack. Helluva a lineage there, eh?

 

[SirRoxalot]

In the Biblical Sense

> BTW, WSJZ begat Alice, which begat Dancin' Oldies, which
> begat WBUF which begat Jack. Helluva a lineage there, eh?

I have to ask...

Did Jack "know" Alice?

 

[fybush]

> I honestly do not know if that format is viable in the
> Buffalo market today or not, but, if not, there's always
> Hamilton's Wave 94.7 FM to count on, if that signal can even
> reach Buffalo. (they also stream: www.wave947.fm/ )
>
> (also note: Easy favorites were also tried in Buffalo, prior
> to the WNUC country days on 107.7)

The 94.7 signal does not exist in Buffalo, thanks to WNED-FM on 94.5. (Heck, the Hamilton Wave signal doesn't even exist especially well in St. Kitts, for the same reason.)

And note that the original format on 107.3 Honeoye Falls/Rochester, when it signed on circa 1996, was smooth jazz WRCD. Wrong format for that signal, and it didn't survive Clear Channel's purchase of the station a couple of years later.

(Neither, for that matter, did the excellent AAA format on WRCD's big sister station, WMAX 106.7, but I digress.)

s<P ID="signature">______________
Tower Site Calendar 2006 JUST RELEASED! - <a target="_blank" href=http://www.fybush.com/nerw.html#calendar>www.fybush.com</a></P>

 

[Yeziknoradio]

Re: In the Biblical Sense

> > BTW, WSJZ begat Alice, which begat Dancin' Oldies, which
> > begat WBUF which begat Jack. Helluva a lineage there, eh?
>
> I have to ask...
>
> Did Jack "know" Alice?

Don't think so, but perhaps I'm MIXing information...<P ID="signature">______________
"If you never say NO, How much is your YES worth?"
</P>

 

[scooterodell]

> Speaking of which it looks like both Buffalo and Rochester
> could use a second country station, WNY appears to be one of
> the strongest areas in the U.S for country radio, more so
> than former country strongholds such as Houston.

WYRK and WBEE have such dominance in these markets that no one has tried to really take them on. Will anyone ever try? Clear Channel probably has the most to gain in Rochester; taking down WBEE even a couple of points could help restore WHAM to the #1 position in the market. I suppose the same could be said of Entercom and WBEN in Buffalo. But what station with a full-market signal would either company want to sacrifice for that pursuit?

 

[Philip_Airtime]

It was more "New Age" than "Smooth Jazz." But 107.7 "The Wave," WBMW, offered a music mix that included "Smooth Jazz" in the late 1980s. It was a great station. In fact, their holiday music mix was the best I ever heard. I recorded about six hours on Christmas Eve 1989. So, the "Wave" lives on in my home each holiday. But the programmers started dickering with the music mix, and by the time it went off the air, the station had added Pink Floyd, Steely Dan and some other rock artists to the mix. Didn't really work for me. So, when its numbers started dropping, the owner at the time changed to an easy listening format that had been abandoned by WJYE a few years earlier. The station eventually went country under the calls WNUC. I still think a "Smooth Jazz" format would work in this market. It wouldn't earn blockbuster numbers. But it would have the kind of audience an advertiser would like to attract. If the numbers at the Lake continue to fall, Entercom might want to consider returning the format to the 107.7 frequency.

 

[rdcuff]

>
> BTW, WSJZ begat Alice, which begat Dancin' Oldies, which
> begat WBUF which begat Jack. Helluva a lineage there, eh?
>
Uh, wasn't it WBUF to begin with...waaay back when FM was good for AM simulcasting and beautiful music?

My youngest years were spent a couple miles away from their tower at Cole & Boston-Colden Roads...

Richard / now in Allentown, PA

 

[rdcuff]

>
> (also note: Easy favorites were also tried in Buffalo, prior
> to the WNUC country days on 107.7)
>
Heck, it could be argued that WADV (now WYRK, right?) was "smooth jazz" 35 years before the format became popular.

Bring back Bert Kaempfert!

Richard / Allentown

 

[alw]

> Also, for many years WEBR had an outstanding jazz presence
> in the market, which Al Wallack would be most capable of
> detailing here. Buffalo has a rich history of jazz, blues
> and R & B, and while WSJZ was the "commercial" jazz station,
> it nonetheless contributed to art form.

Element(or Mr. Nine):

I don't know who you are, but thank you for remembering my 20 year pit stop in the world of Jazz Radio.
I could go on for pages about the Buffalo jazz scene, but only you and I would read it. (maybe not even you!)

I will say, about Smooth Jazz, that most folks out there who were serious about jazz as an artform....did'nt consider Smooth Jazz to be Jazz. I remember a conversation with Jay Beckenstein of Spyro Gyra, after he'd spent years being reviled by jazz purists, where he told me that Spyro Gyra was actually a Pop Instrumental group with some jazz influences.
They were labeled jazz by some record company wonk who didn't know what to do with them.

Allow me to finish up with a look at some of the people who made jazz radio a real entity from the 40s through the present.
Maury Bloom, Joe Rico, Carrol Hardy, John Hunt, "Prez" Freeland, John Werick, Bill Besecker, Joe Vendetti, Geo. Beck & Ken Ruof. I've limited this list to folks who are no longer on-air with jazz. I consider Carrol Hardy to be the "Hippest" of us all, but that's just me.
If you've gotten this far and I've left you out...So sue me!

It's been said that "jazz will always break your heart". Once it becomes too successful it can go to hell. At least as far as the purists are concerned. Especially in a town like Buffalo; where our inferiority complex is extreme. I think that if jazz were meant to be popular, it would be called "POP".

Please excuse my diatribe, but this subject struck a cord with me....
(a minor one).

alw

 

[dampier]

Back during the yuppie hell 80s, 107.7 actually had the call WBMW (!) and played satellite delivered "new age" music, which was actually a format that played anything that ever came out of GRP Records and a handful of other like labels. In fact, the format was really smooth jazz, not new age. Apparently you had to have an expensive car and maybe a wine and cheese reception in the back seat in order to qualify as a listener.

 

[Element9]

>
> WYRK and WBEE have such dominance in these markets that no
> one has tried to really take them on. Will anyone ever try?
> Clear Channel probably has the most to gain in Rochester;
> taking down WBEE even a couple of points could help restore
> WHAM to the #1 position in the market. I suppose the same
> could be said of Entercom and WBEN in Buffalo. But what
> station with a full-market signal would either company want
> to sacrifice for that pursuit?
>
Going up against either WBEE or WYRK is going to take more than a strong signal and more than strong Selector skills. Each station is entrenched in their respective market.

The argument might be made that a strong in-market competitor could do a "Jack" version of country and be a thorn in either station's side, but there's no guarantee that "thorn" would be long lasting or result in knocking WYRK or WBEE completely out of the box. As so often has bee stated on these boards with regard to Jack, and every other format, people on the air make the difference; live and local being the key elements.

It might be mildly amusing for sideline spectators to see how Doyle and Silver reacted if a strong-signaled competitor gave each a dose of his own (Jack or Fickle) medicine in a "country" bottle. But such midgames would prove to be foolish in the long run. I'd say the country format on WBEE and WYRK is the most secure format in each of the two western New York markets.

 

[dgb]

where's prez?

Any idea whatever became of WEBR's late night jazz host Prez Freeland? I used to love hearing his late night jazz show during road trips into Buffalo from Rochester (circa late '80s) to see jazz artists at the Calumet, Tralf and especially the Blue Note (anybody remember Joe Madison?). The signal would evaporate shortly after the Depew thruway exit on the way back to Roch, but it was always cool as long as it lasted - sounded great on the car radio while driving around snowy downtown Buffalo in search of after hours tacos. What cracked me up was that he used to do 3AM weather reports that seemed to last the full length of a 7 or 8 minute Horace Silver song, talking as the piano tinkled under his voice. He had the kind of smooth rap that made stuff like that really work. I also liked this one line he frequently used "...through the galaxy of the stars, until we reach touchdown time...". Live, cool and late night on AM public radio. What a concept. Even his name was cool. I always wondered what happened to him when WEBR cut off the jazz shows.

> > Also, for many years WEBR had an outstanding jazz presence
>
> > in the market, which Al Wallack would be most capable of
> > detailing here. Buffalo has a rich history of jazz, blues
> > and R & B, and while WSJZ was the "commercial" jazz
> station,
> > it nonetheless contributed to art form.
>
> Element(or Mr. Nine):
>
> I don't know who you are, but thank you for remembering my
> 20 year pit stop in the world of Jazz Radio.
> I could go on for pages about the Buffalo jazz scene, but
> only you and I would read it. (maybe not even you!)
>
> I will say, about Smooth Jazz, that most folks out there who
> were serious about jazz as an artform....did'nt consider
> Smooth Jazz to be Jazz. I remember a conversation with Jay
> Beckenstein of Spyro Gyra, after he'd spent years being
> reviled by jazz purists, where he told me that Spyro Gyra
> was actually a Pop Instrumental group with some jazz
> influences.
> They were labeled jazz by some record company wonk who
> didn't know what to do with them.
>
> Allow me to finish up with a look at some of the people who
> made jazz radio a real entity from the 40s through the
> present.
> Maury Bloom, Joe Rico, Carrol Hardy, John Hunt, "Prez"
> Freeland, John Werick, Bill Besecker, Joe Vendetti, Geo.
> Beck & Ken Ruof. I've limited this list to folks who are no
> longer on-air with jazz. I consider Carrol Hardy to be the
> "Hippest" of us all, but that's just me.
> If you've gotten this far and I've left you out...So sue me!
>
>
> It's been said that "jazz will always break your heart".
> Once it becomes too successful it can go to hell. At least
> as far as the purists are concerned. Especially in a town
> like Buffalo; where our inferiority complex is extreme. I
> think that if jazz were meant to be popular, it would be
> called "POP".
>
> Please excuse my diatribe, but this subject struck a cord
> with me....
> (a minor one).
>
> alw
>

 

[alw]

Re: where's prez?

Prez is retired.

Joe Madison died several years ago.

 

[radio_man_jake]

> It was more "New Age" than "Smooth Jazz." But 107.7 "The
> Wave," WBMW, offered a music mix that included "Smooth Jazz"
> in the late 1980s. It was a great station. In fact, their
> holiday music mix was the best I ever heard. I recorded
> about six hours on Christmas Eve 1989. So, the "Wave" lives
> on in my home each holiday. But the programmers started
> dickering with the music mix, and by the time it went off
> the air, the station had added Pink Floyd, Steely Dan and
> some other rock artists to the mix. Didn't really work for
> me. So, when its numbers started dropping, the owner at the
> time changed to an easy listening format that had been
> abandoned by WJYE a few years earlier. The station
> eventually went country under the calls WNUC. I still think
> a "Smooth Jazz" format would work in this market. It
> wouldn't earn blockbuster numbers. But it would have the
> kind of audience an advertiser would like to attract. If
> the numbers at the Lake continue to fall, Entercom might
> want to consider returning the format to the 107.7
> frequency.
>
Anyone remember "Lake Air" WLKA 102.3 in Canandaigua? This was the FM station originally paired with daytimer WCGR. And prior to becomming a "jazz" station, it had been country WFLC. It was mainly a Finger Lakes market station, but served Rochester as a secondary market. They had a Smooth Jazz/New Age format with some traditional jazz and blues mixed in. They also carried the popular electronica show "Musical Starstreams". If memory serves me correctly, they lasted from about 1989 to 1993. At which time, George Kimble bought the station and turned it into a hot AC format. A couple years later, he sold it to Auburn Cablevision, who owned WMAX and WRCD. 102.3 then became WMHX and was a simulcast of "The Max" for the FInger Lakes region. Of course, as fybush pointed out a few posts ago, that would not last...

 

[Element9]

>
> Element(or Mr. Nine):
>
> I don't know who you are, but thank you for remembering my
> 20 year pit stop in the world of Jazz Radio.
> I could go on for pages about the Buffalo jazz scene, but
> only you and I would read it. (maybe not even you!)

Mr. Wallack,

You underestimate your impact on the Buffalo jazz and radio landscape. As a connoisseur of radio (somewhat more than jazz) I can tell you that your "pit stop" was no minor event. Please consider posting more often, especially about radio and jazz, as your views are interesting and often humorous.



-9-

 

[tokyo_rose]

Re: where's prez?

> Prez is retired.
>
> Joe Madison died several years ago.
>

Bummer. The original post brought back memories of listening to him on my way home from such places as the Continental and the Pink Flamingo.<P ID="signature">______________
I can't believe I'm sitting here in Buffalo. The only town where you can have a good time without enjoying yourself.
Inez (as portrayed by Amherst, NY native Wendie Malick) "Manna from Heaven", 2002</P>