Snap Out Of It!

[psonderman]

Unless VKO finds a way to improve its product, the point of its potential success or failure is moot. Day after day, one hears dead air, miscues, local IDs/PSAs from WCPT (which VKO streams for its network programming) bleeding through, multiple sources on air (cued and live simultaneously aired), talk show guests off mic, bad engineering, etc.

In one sense, VKO is amazing. It's tied WYTS at the bottom rung of the central Ohio radio ladder despite uneven programming, hit or miss engineering and the near total absence of significant advertisers. That in itself proves its value to Columbus. Many of us want it to stay on the air.

Having worked for several months trying to sell VKO, I found that there are plenty of willing local advertisers. Even so, we were told to go after bigger fish…discouraged from pursuing moms and pops in favor of larger, former VKO advertisers, many of whom had been burned by the former station’s unfortunate demise. Regardless of format or "age," as a small, single AM station tied for the bottom tier of the market, what makes one think VKO can snag large accounts, who eschew a single station buy in favor of an agency/group that can deliver more guaranteed listeners?

As difficult as it may be, listen to WYTS. Suspend ideological differences and just listen. You’ll instantly see what ELSE is different from VKO. The programming is clean and advertisers abound (the former a result of automation, the latter due to group buying power). We can thump our chests and crow all we want about the advantages of local v. network programming, live bodies v. automation. But when Joe six pack’s radio goes silent, try to explain that to him before he hits the next station preset. Without listeners, there are no advertisers and without advertisers, a commercial station just goes away.

One may dismiss this as mere ramblings of a "disgruntled former employee," and truth be told, I was no sales pro before signing on at WVKO. Still, I want VKO to succeed. We need a progressive voice in central Ohio. But if WVKO can’t fix its consistently shoddy engineering and fails to find a consistent sales direction, despite the best intentions of dedicated people willing to volunteer or work for next to nothing to make it succeed, I fear the station will simply run out of time. And that would be a shame.

 

[techie2]

There is no excuse for poor technical preparation and sounding "cheap". Having proper satellite reception equipment in place is critical for a talker that is taking syndicated shows. Listeners and advertisers notice...and not in a good way.

 

[Al Timiter]

If this has been discussed on another thread and most of you know it already I apologize but I heard that due to the location of WVKO's offices and "studios,"
it is impossible to set up a SAT receiver. Wonder why they just don't move if that's the case? Set up a trade with a local mover....etc.....

 

[techie2]

Just run the studios out of a modular unit at the transmitter site until a better site can be found. That gets costs down (no need to pay the telco for expensive STL circuits) and gets you a clear view for the sat dish.

 

[psonderman]

That would clean up the network feed problems but won't resolve the board slop and low production values (cheesy library music behind VO, "glom" background tracks, uneven/overdriven levels, talent off mic, etc.)

 

[gabigley1]

WVKO-AM went from a 0.5 to a 0.6 in the brand new Sp 08 p1 ratings. Their rating may double or triple if
they can resolve their technical problems. Also, WYTS is no where to be found! I take this to mean
WYTS has a 0.0 rating in this book. WTPG, the old WYTS, did peak at a 1.4 during the time period it was
doing this same format.

There seems to be a need for this format in Columbus... WVKO-AM is living proof of that. People WILL
listen to this station despite all of its major problems.

 

[del_griffith]

Ok, I'll ask the million dollar question. What realistically in terms of ratings would WVKO climb to if they had the perfect audio? If they hit every break? If they never aired the id of the station they are streaming off of?

Honestly, I don't think it would improve all that much.

And what is the real potential for advertisers. You've pretty much have to have a 2 share (which generally means you have some sort of critical mass in a critical demo) in order to get any real notice from the agencies which means you're pretty much stuck with local direct. Which means you got to find those smaller businesses that are like minded to progressive talk and have the budget to support it.

Progressive talk is still as a 24/7 format a niche format. Add to that it's on an AM station so far up the dial it's in my glove box.

I listen to the station off and on. While the audio isn't great, it's not so bad it's unlistenable. Worse than any audio impurity is the night signal. It's simply splotchy anywhere from I-70 south. There's terrible ingress from more than one station at night.

This is one conservative who would love to see progressive talk become a force in the world of formats. As long as they are relegated to third tier stations (sorry WVKO, the signal problems plant you there) it will always be a niche format.

 

[Nu_Roo_2]

WVKO-AM went from a 0.5 to a 0.6 in the brand new Sp 08 p1 ratings. Their rating may double or triple if
they can resolve their technical problems. Also, WYTS is no where to be found! I take this to mean
WYTS has a 0.0 rating in this book. WTPG, the old WYTS, did peak at a 1.4 during the time period it was
doing this same format.

There seems to be a need for this format in Columbus... WVKO-AM is living proof of that. People WILL
listen to this station despite all of its major problems.

Agreed.  Whether it would be economically viable would depend on (1) whether that last statement continues to be true, (2) potential changes in the competitive environment (and maybe political environment), (3) advertising potential, and (4) Sales' ability to capture that potential.  I'd like to see it succeed.  I was not encouraged by seeing an employee summarily dismiss a complaining listener with a "Clintonista" label on this board, similar to the way many conservative talkers love to be immaturely dismissive by throwing around derogatory labels (including the excrutiatingly un-clever, juvenile and meaningless "Barack HUSSEIN Obama").

 

[SeanMGilbow]

WVKO-AM went from a 0.5 to a 0.6 in the brand new Sp 08 p1 ratings. Their rating may double or triple if
they can resolve their technical problems. Also, WYTS is no where to be found! I take this to mean
WYTS has a 0.0 rating in this book. WTPG, the old WYTS, did peak at a 1.4 during the time period it was
doing this same format.

There seems to be a need for this format in Columbus... WVKO-AM is living proof of that. People WILL
listen to this station despite all of its major problems.

Agreed. Whether it would be economically viable would depend on (1) whether that last statement continues to be true, (2) potential changes in the competitive environment (and maybe political environment), (3) advertising potential, and (4) Sales' ability to capture that potential. I'd like to see it succeed. I was not encouraged by seeing an employee summarily dismiss a complaining listener with a "Clintonista" label on this board, similar to the way many conservative talkers love to be immaturely dismissive by throwing around derogatory labels (including the excrutiatingly un-clever, juvenile and meaningless "Barack HUSSEIN Obama").

Roo, I'm not an employee of the station. I provide the news in exchange for ad time. But the so-called listener should explain how half the listeners would leave the station and WVKO's listenership increased by 10 percent.

And before anyone asks...I arrive at the station after I leave work at 3:30. I'm not about to quit a $43,000-a-year job to go back into radio. If more than a handful of on-air people make that much in this market, it would surprise the heck out of me.

 

[psonderman]

Ok, I'll ask the million dollar question. What realistically in terms of ratings would WVKO climb to if they had the perfect audio? If they hit every break? If they never aired the id of the station they are streaming off of?

Honestly, I don't think it would improve all that much.

And what is the real potential for advertisers. You've pretty much have to have a 2 share (which generally means you have some sort of critical mass in a critical demo) in order to get any real notice from the agencies which means you're pretty much stuck with local direct. Which means you got to find those smaller businesses that are like minded to progressive talk and have the budget to support it.

Progressive talk is still as a 24/7 format a niche format.


This is the same crap the right has spouted off about progressive radio since its inception. It's a tired argument. Progressive talk is no more a niche format than is conservative talk, it simply lacks the advantage of conservative talk's age and deep corporate backing. If elections are lost on ribbon-thin margins, deductive reasoning suggests that at least nearly HALF of talk radio listeners may not buy conservative talking points. If liberal talk had the financial backing of right-wing talk, and progressive talk STILL had problems staying on the air, one may be able to make such a statement. But since those conditions don't exist, your contention is BS . Conservative talk is institutionalized. Liberal talk is not. It ain't apples to apples. Give it time. Liberals have put up with the right wing talkers for 15 years. And we've had enough. If this is true of listeners, it's also true of advertisers. Ultimately, the market will decide. When brain-dead, rightie talkers lose their luster with advertisers, their corporate owners won't continue to carry them as a charitable measure. In the end, bean counters will prevail. Radio is too expensive for management to ignore a "hot hand".

Conservative talk has had a good run. When a substantive, viable alternative becomes available, it'll be interesting to see if righties can continue to dominate political talk. Time will tell.

"Rolling Stone" was once a "niche" publication. While it still revel in its heritage as a rebel publication, it's become mainstream, read each month by more readers than "The New Yorker," "Vanity Fair" and "Vogue".

 

[techie2]

Liberal talk is institutionalized too...NPR has been around for years now.

 

[psonderman]

Yeah, right.

 

[xianbroadcaster]

Ok, I'll ask the million dollar question. What realistically in terms of ratings would WVKO climb to if they had the perfect audio? If they hit every break? If they never aired the id of the station they are streaming off of?

Honestly, I don't think it would improve all that much.

And what is the real potential for advertisers. You've pretty much have to have a 2 share (which generally means you have some sort of critical mass in a critical demo) in order to get any real notice from the agencies which means you're pretty much stuck with local direct. Which means you got to find those smaller businesses that are like minded to progressive talk and have the budget to support it.

Progressive talk is still as a 24/7 format a niche format.


This is the same crap the right has spouted off about progressive radio since its inception. It's a tired argument. Progressive talk is no more a niche format than is conservative talk, it simply lacks the advantage of conservative talk's age and deep corporate backing. If elections are lost on ribbon-thin margins, deductive reasoning suggests that at least nearly HALF of talk radio listeners may not buy conservative talking points. If liberal talk had the financial backing of right-wing talk, and progressive talk STILL had problems staying on the air, one may be able to make such a statement. But since those conditions don't exist, your contention is BS . Conservative talk is institutionalized. Liberal talk is not. It ain't apples to apples. Give it time. Liberals have put up with the right wing talkers for 15 years. And we've had enough. If this is true of listeners, it's also true of advertisers. Ultimately, the market will decide. When brain-dead, rightie talkers lose their luster with advertisers, their corporate owners won't continue to carry them as a charitable measure. In the end, bean counters will prevail. Radio is too expensive for management to ignore a "hot hand".

Conservative talk has had a good run. When a substantive, viable alternative becomes available, it'll be interesting to see if righties can continue to dominate political talk. Time will tell.

"Rolling Stone" was once a "niche" publication. While it still revel in its heritage as a rebel publication, it's become mainstream, read each month by more readers than "The New Yorker," "Vanity Fair" and "Vogue".

I don't see what the disagreement is...for now...Liberal Talk is a niche format...same as Urban radio was back in the late 80's...there were actual programmers of Urban stations in Columbus OH who would not play rap music from groups like The Fat Boys and Run DMC and the only song they would play from LL Cool J was "I need Love"...fast forward to the mid 1990's and the scene was changing.

Unlike musical genre's though I think that talk from a liberal slant will have a hard time finding its feet to grow to the masses and the reason of that is because many people who are intrigued by liberal ideals just don't traditionally listen to any sort of talk radio...NPR or Conservative Talk or for that matter care all that much about national politics.

Which means a couple of things...

1) For progressive talk to really catch on there needs to be a strong local angle from the station that will champion local concerns and therefore keep local listeners involved and engaged.

2) Sadly, political liberals really are not all that great at communicating with their base when it is not an election time...so the base comes and goes, comes and goes.

Finally, I think that many of the people who voted "for" liberal candidates, did so as a vote against George W. Bush in elections at all levels...I don't think that once W is gone from the White House that the venomous hate for the right will continue...does it deserve to stick around? Maybe...but I think that Liberals crying "I was misguided" when they saw the same "intelligence" reports that the White House did is a bit of a lucky shot in the dark.

Sorry for this rambling post...I really hope liberal radio catches on. I just hope it offers more than just an alternative to the conservative stuff...because I don't listen to that either and I have no interest in hearing these two sides just shoot piss and vinegar back and forth at one another over things that really deserve to be discussed.

 

[del_griffith]

Ok, I'll ask the million dollar question. What realistically in terms of ratings would WVKO climb to if they had the perfect audio? If they hit every break? If they never aired the id of the station they are streaming off of?

Honestly, I don't think it would improve all that much.

And what is the real potential for advertisers. You've pretty much have to have a 2 share (which generally means you have some sort of critical mass in a critical demo) in order to get any real notice from the agencies which means you're pretty much stuck with local direct. Which means you got to find those smaller businesses that are like minded to progressive talk and have the budget to support it.

Progressive talk is still as a 24/7 format a niche format.


This is the same crap the right has spouted off about progressive radio since its inception. It's a tired argument. Progressive talk is no more a niche format than is conservative talk, it simply lacks the advantage of conservative talk's age and deep corporate backing. If elections are lost on ribbon-thin margins, deductive reasoning suggests that at least nearly HALF of talk radio listeners may not buy conservative talking points. If liberal talk had the financial backing of right-wing talk, and progressive talk STILL had problems staying on the air, one may be able to make such a statement. But since those conditions don't exist, your contention is BS . Conservative talk is institutionalized. Liberal talk is not. It ain't apples to apples. Give it time. Liberals have put up with the right wing talkers for 15 years. And we've had enough. If this is true of listeners, it's also true of advertisers. Ultimately, the market will decide. When brain-dead, rightie talkers lose their luster with advertisers, their corporate owners won't continue to carry them as a charitable measure. In the end, bean counters will prevail. Radio is too expensive for management to ignore a "hot hand".

Conservative talk has had a good run. When a substantive, viable alternative becomes available, it'll be interesting to see if righties can continue to dominate political talk. Time will tell.

"Rolling Stone" was once a "niche" publication. While it still revel in its heritage as a rebel publication, it's become mainstream, read each month by more readers than "The New Yorker," "Vanity Fair" and "Vogue".

Ok, so I were to agree with all you said, you still never answered the question.

IF WVKO were to clean up it's audio and hit every break and never aired the ID of the Chicago station, what realistically would they be able to garner in ratings?

Remember, when Rush first came to Columbus, he was getting a 7 or greater share on 1230. Can VKO replicate that with any of their hosts?

 

[psonderman]

I'm not familiar enough with what preceded Rush's entrance into the Columbus market to tell you why he may have garnered a 7 share back then. I'm willing to bet, however, that he was introduced to central Ohio with more fanfare than what ushered in WVKO's debut. I do vaguely recall dozens of billboards...Clear Channel, if memory serves me. He also had a TV show. That didn't last long, though, did it?

I won't prognosticate. I contend merely that If VKO manages to overcome its internal shortcomings (indeed a BIG "if") and subsequently can survive, it'll continue to earn listeners in the central Ohio market simply because no similar offerings exist. And contrary to the prior post, liberals (who, ARE EXTREMELY interested in politics--witnessed by the explosive growth of lefty blogs in the past eight years) will listen. They'll shop with those who advertise on the station and as more local advertisers find it, VKO will indeed find its place in the media mix. It ain't gonna compete with stations that are being bought as a group by agencies. The allegation that liberal talk can't at least match right-wing talk in the numbers race has merit ONLY because the playing field--assaulted by the steady devolution of local radio since the Reagan era-- is far from level. That could change.

Even so, the composition of the central Ohio electorate isn't overwhelmingly conservative. Listening preferences should reflect its make-up. Whether liberal talk can get a chance to prove this to be true is another matter, because of the reasons I cited earlier. But theoretically, it's not insurmountable.

Tides ebb and flow. Again, time will tell.

 

[pbf1]

I'm not familiar enough with what preceded Rush's entrance into the Columbus market to tell you why he may have garnered a 7 share back then. I'm willing to bet, however, that he was introduced to central Ohio with more fanfare than what ushered in WVKO's debut. I do vaguely recall dozens of billboards...Clear Channel, if memory serves me.

It doesn't. It wasn't.

 

[Nu_Roo_2]

I notice that talk WTDA is only 0.4 points ahead of VKO in the latest trend, despite substantially greater promotion and fewer technical shortfalls than 1580.  In fact, WTDA continues to do no better than its former Ted format, which didn't exactly earn accolades on this board for its execution of the Adult Hits format.  Meanwhile, WYTS remains invisible in the 12+ ratings.  While none of this "proves" anything (indeed, I seem to recall reports of WTDA substantially out-performing Ted revenue-wise despite similar ratings), it provides further hints that a well-executed Progressive talk format might indeed have some potential in Columbus -- at least as (a distant) #2 to WTVN.  Whether it's niche or mainstream doesn't matter -- it just needs to make money.

 

[gabigley1]

There is no excuse for poor technical preparation and sounding "cheap". Having proper satellite reception equipment in place is critical for a talker that is taking syndicated shows. Listeners and advertisers notice...and not in a good way.

Speaking of listeners taking notice in a bad way, did any of you catch Open Line
on WOSU-AM last Friday? They had one of VKO's biggest supports call in. Dave
called and and told the host that "WVKO 1580 gives both sides of the story."
The host said, "You can barely hear both sides of the story. They must be having
transmitter problems out there because it sounds like they are broadcasting from
the bottom of a well. I hear they have having money problems at that station."

Apparently the WOSU-AM host is referring to the bad audio quality at WVKO-AM.
He sampled the station and decided he didn't want to listen anymore because he couldn't stand to listen to the bad WVKO audio. This host may be just one of a countless number of people that sampled this station and didn't like the bad audio and
will never listen again.

Here is a link to that show for those that didn't catch it. Dave's call is 17 minutes into
the show. Click here to listen:

http://streaming.osu.edu/wosu/openline/060608bOL.mp3

 

[Nu_Roo_2]

Isn't this just another variation of a problem that afflicts at least half of the stations in this market that is woefully dependent on rimshots? I'm constantly hearing people say of various stations, "I can't listen because I can't pick it up at the office," etc. That said, it sure doesn't make sense for VKO to handicap itself further.

 

[xianbroadcaster]

I'm not familiar enough with what preceded Rush's entrance into the Columbus market to tell you why he may have garnered a 7 share back then. I'm willing to bet, however, that he was introduced to central Ohio with more fanfare than what ushered in WVKO's debut. I do vaguely recall dozens of billboards...Clear Channel, if memory serves me. He also had a TV show. That didn't last long, though, did it?

I won't prognosticate. I contend merely that If VKO manages to overcome its internal shortcomings (indeed a BIG "if") and subsequently can survive, it'll continue to earn listeners in the central Ohio market simply because no similar offerings exist. And contrary to the prior post, liberals (who, ARE EXTREMELY interested in politics--witnessed by the explosive growth of lefty blogs in the past eight years) will listen. They'll shop with those who advertise on the station and as more local advertisers find it, VKO will indeed find its place in the media mix. It ain't gonna compete with stations that are being bought as a group by agencies. The allegation that liberal talk can't at least match right-wing talk in the numbers race has merit ONLY because the playing field--assaulted by the steady devolution of local radio since the Reagan era-- is far from level. That could change.

Even so, the composition of the central Ohio electorate isn't overwhelmingly conservative. Listening preferences should reflect its make-up. Whether liberal talk can get a chance to prove this to be true is another matter, because of the reasons I cited earlier. But theoretically, it's not insurmountable.

Tides ebb and flow. Again, time will tell.

I agree the Republicans got the ball rolling to gut local radio during the Reagan years. The Democrats have had several years to reverse this trend yet haven't done anything...so, one caused it the other endorse it and hide from confronting it.

I agree that Liberal bloggers are widely read but that isn't radio and it doesn't translate...at least not initially...like you I do believe the tide will change and perhaps liberal talk will take of...the thing to ask is "Is it worth it?"

Radio is a dying media and if not for the corporate super groups lobbying in the government, XM ans SIRIUS or whatever there is now would be mopping radio up...Also, Internet radio will be a force as technology allows Internet radio to stream seamlessly in vehicles and homes.

As for the left and the communication with it's base...maybe they communicate with their CORE base a lot better than they do their fringe base. And ultimately the middle is where both "sides" live and die...that is the battle of progressive talk radio. Conservatives had a history of nearly 400 years of puritanical mindset to build off of...so change will come, the tide will turn, I just don't think it will be aas quick or as easy as what the conservatives had.