So Cal Hits

[davideduardo]

As a result, we now have people on the air in major markets in morning drive who frankly suck at radio, and PDs are having to coach them on the fundamentals that you used to have to coach the overnight jock on before they were good enough to get a daylight gig somewhere else.

That's sacrificing your product because you're not investing in talent. We reap what we sow.

I’ve programmed in a number of major markets of up to 20 million people and, still, there was never much time to work with the overnight people as it did not matter. No sales, no revenue.

The main criteria for overnights was to find someone who showed up on time, didn’t drink or toke on the job, did not “party” during long sons and stayed awake. We limited them to very basic content. Usually they came from a smaller market where the had a decent but not necessarily great showing in a day shift, but had good references.

At very few stations was there time to do “career enhancement” training.

 

[TheBigA]

When we automated weekends and overnights, we took away opportunities to develop talent.

When I did overnights (for one month), there was no one there while I was on the air to develop my talent. I was by myself. And this was a while ago. If you did overnights and you weren't a drunk or a criminal, that's where you stayed. That was not a training ground for afternoon drive. I had to leave to get a better job in radio. PDs are not in the talent development business. I don't understand where that idea comes from. Certainly the other DJs aren't going to help either. You don't need a radio station with all of the expensive equipment to practice what you do and develop a style.

If you suck on the radio, maybe you should try some other line of work. Not continue to do it with the anticipation that practice makes perfect. Sometimes it doesn't. It only gets better if you work with a coach on your own time. Being on the air is not the time to learn how to be on the air. It's not the amateur hour. The time to practice is off the air.

Conversely, I spent a year teaching sophomore level on-air performance at a major university. I had two students who right out of the box were obviously talented and ready to go on the air. One of them became a TV sportscaster, the other became a well known urban DJ. Neither of them needed to work the overnight shift. All they needed to do was wait for someone to leave so they could take their job. They were ready at age 22. I see people like that every day. The morning host at the local sports station is 26. He's been on the air for ten years. He never worked overnights. He's that good.

 

[davideduardo]

If you suck on the radio, maybe you should try some other line of work. Not continue to do it with the anticipation that practice makes perfect. Sometimes it doesn't. It only gets better if you work with a coach on your own time. Being on the air is not the time to learn how to be on the air. It's not the amateur hour. The time to practice is off the air.

An anecdote that amplifies your very solid perspective:

A young lady went to the rather famous Don Martin broadcast school in Hollywood. They told her that she likely would not find a job on the air in radio. So, just to be in the business, she was hired to do traffic at a 50 kw AM in the LA market.

One day, an announcer did not show up. The manager said, "you took courses, so try to keep things flowing and don't mess it up too much". She was on the air!

After that first shift, she was hired for PM drive. She had turned out to be a natural. But the station did not train her; her opportunity was "make or break". She made it.

And, if I am nice, she brings me morning coffee while I write this stuff!

 

[michael hagerty]

I've taken overnight gigs three times and all three times I was promoted to morning drive.

Did that, even in the "old days", happen often? No.

The Drake/RKO stations would give new jocks two or three "break-in" shifts in overnights, but I'm trying to think of any KHJ or KFRC jock who started in overnights and climbed out. Okay, one---Shana, at both KHJ and KFRC.

 

[TheBigA]

I've taken overnight gigs three times and all three times I was promoted to morning drive.

Was there any talent development during your time in the overnight?

 

[michael hagerty]

Was there any talent development during your time in the overnight?

The first time, yes. The PD asked me to slip a skimmer tape under his door when I left every morning. There'd be notes from him when I came in that night on what he liked and what needed work. In six weeks, we had a morning drive opening and I got the gig.

Second time, there wasn't time. I did two overnight shifts, got called into the GMs office and walked out with morning drive.

The third time I'm pretty sure they knew they were going to have a morning drive opening and put me in overnights to have me in house. That was three months.

 

[TheBigA]

The first time, yes. The PD asked me to slip a skimmer tape under his door when I left every morning. There'd be notes from him when I came in that night on what he liked and what needed work.

Was this the only station overseen by this PD?

For me, when I got home, my father gave me his evaluation of my show. My father was not in radio.

 

[michael hagerty]

Was this the only station overseen by this PD?

Oh, God, yes, BigA. I'm old. This was 1974 in San Luis Obispo, California. I was 17. The PD was 24. He had ten minutes a day to listen to the aircheck from the skimmer and ten more to jot down some notes. He didn't do it for every jock, but then he could listen to them live at home, in the car, at his desk---I think once I moved to mornings, I joined the rest of the airstaff in getting him a skimmer tape a month for an aircheck session.

As I said, it was rare then. You're not going to see it now.

 

[oldies76]

As far as Southern California hits, ARSA website (where thousands of radio surveys live) contains top songs from the KFWB Fab 40, KHJ Boss 30 and the KRTH music surveys. In fact every single KRTH radio survey list from September 1978 through early 1984 are now posted on there and lists every single song to reach #1 on that station. They used to do fun #1 and #2 weekends in the 1980's around Labor Day based on all these surveys. Also some KIIS-FM lists are on there too from the 1980's. Enjoy!

 

[oldies76]

Looking for songs that were big Los Angeles hits on khj, ktnq, KIIS etc from 65-85, upbeat rnb, pop, and rock, that are forgotten classics which being local hits, have not been played to death.

For example, All night thang from the Invisible man band.

Thanks in advance.

"All Night Thing" reached #2 on June 18th, 1980 on the KRTH music surveys for one week. Nice tune!!
Also see post #49 above...

 

[michael hagerty]

BIG thanks to pjc1961, who sent me the link to the HzSoGood archive. Turns out I wrote what I wrote about KROQ more than 12 years ago, so while I got the gist right in this thread, the wording's a bit different. Here's what I wrote in January of 2011:


Every bit as big a deal as KHJ. Arguably even bigger, since KROQ is still with us 31 years later. And while KHJ spent its first two months playing music from KFWB's weekly chart, KROQ made it big playing records that weren't hits by bands no one else in radio had heard of.

All the credit goes to the late Rick Carroll, who walked into the underfunded, signal-impaired, chaotic album rocker that was playing punk and new wave because they'd get killed by bigger stations playing anything else, and programmed it like a Top 40. But a Top 40 that played songs like "Teenage Enema Nurses In Bondage," "Stuck In A Pagoda With Tritia Toyota" and "88 Lines About 44 Women" with jocks like Raymond Bannister, Richard Blade and Dusty Street who related to the audience in ways the market had never heard and the FCC would never approve of.

It's no wonder KMET, the hippest thing on earth in '78, was a dead station walking by the dawn of the 80s...and it's a miracle that KIIS-FM ever got traction. KROQ changed everything. (Hagerty)

 

[TheBigA]

I was reminded of this thread while doing research on the 60's band The Grass Roots. It turns out their debut song was first played on KHJ in 1965

In late 1965, the Grass Roots got their first official airplay on Southern California radio stations, such as KGB (AM) in San Diego and KHJ in Los Angeles, with a version of the Bob Dylan song "Mr. Jones (Ballad of a Thin Man)."

The band at that time had different personnel from the one that later had hits such as Midnight Confessions. The band was a pet project of producer Lou Adler and songwriter PF Sloan. They likely brought an acetate to the radio station at night to get response. This was pretty typical at that time.

https://www.allmusic.com/artist/the-grass-roots-/biography?1693102216939

I was referred to the Grass Roots because I was originally doing research on songwriter Bryan MacLean. His bio says he and Arthur Lee had been in the Grass Roots before they formed the band Love in 1966. Turns out they used that Grass Roots name before finding out the name had already been taken by another LA band.

 

[TheBigA]

But a Top 40 that played songs like "Teenage Enema Nurses In Bondage," "Stuck In A Pagoda With Tritia Toyota" and "88 Lines About 44 Women" with jocks like Raymond Bannister, Richard Blade and Dusty Street who related to the audience in ways the market had never heard and the FCC would never approve of.

A Seattle poster got me examining the playlist of KEXP, and that station seems to pick currents in the same way. First of all they're playing three times as many currents (75) as any similar station in the country. They have over 900 songs in their playlist with some pretty wacky titles. They're also playing Hallelujah by Tim Buckley. That got my attention. If Rick Carroll were alive today, he might enjoy KEXP.

 

[DOB]

Congratulations for winning the best "Distinction without a Difference" post of the day, with especially high marks for completely ignoring the relevant point of the post to which you were responding.

I think most people, especially on an industry site like this one, know Casey was not the producer of the show (in fact he calls out the producers at the end of every show after playing the #1 song, which changed over the years, and never included himself). Regardless, the point I was trying to make is much more effectively made by associating the show with Casey, who everyone knows, rather than Tom Rounds.

Sometimes you know-it-alls demonstrate your know-it-all-is'ms too much.

Your milage may vary but I just roll with it, my god, I love radio and that's because of what it once was and David's career entitles him to respond in any way he wants.
Objectively, this guy is legendary!
He's basically lived the life and done things that I can only dream of.
And him and Michael, and others too, have gifted me so much knowledge, so much radio history that I could never get anywhere else, again I love what radio was, I am beyond grateful for all they have contributed that they can trash me, take my comments out of context, attribute things to me that are very offensive to who I try to be.... David called me a racist once I think but he is who he is, created radio brilliance in a crazy amount of different places...., and he has contributed so much priceless radio history for us that he has more than earned the right to from time to time, make mention that his credentials are accomplishments unmatched.
Also it's very important to remember this, I forget about it all the time, text can easily be misinterpreted depending upon how you may have read it not matching up with the writers intention.
Delete this if you want, but I felt an obligation to make this post because if I could say it right we could keep focus on the true gift this place is because of the people who contribute.
Thanks and sorry for this being so long. 😂

 

[davideduardo]

Also it's very important to remember this, I forget about it all the time, text can easily be misinterpreted depending upon how you may have read it not matching up with the writers intention.

And that is obviously what I interpreted in one of your posts, for which I give you a very late apology. Tone, inflection, gestures and facial expression are things that are missing but sometimes essential in statements of opinion!

Delete this if you want, but I felt an obligation to make this post because if I could say it right we could keep focus on the true gift this place is because of the people who contribute.

To the contrary, a very valid post that shows that sometimes we misinterpret written remarks. We may even understand certain words in different manners based on our age and culture.

Thanks and sorry for this being so long. 😂

Well written post, actually, and worthy of some thought by everyone.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

Your milage may vary but I just roll with it, my god, I love radio and that's because of what it once was and David's career entitles him to respond in any way he wants.
Objectively, this guy is legendary!
He's basically lived the life and done things that I can only dream of.
And him and Michael, and others too, have gifted me so much knowledge, so much radio history that I could never get anywhere else, again I love what radio was, I am beyond grateful for all they have contributed that they can trash me, take my comments out of context, attribute things to me that are very offensive to who I try to be.... David called me a racist once I think but he is who he is, created radio brilliance in a crazy amount of different places...., and he has contributed so much priceless radio history for us that he has more than earned the right to from time to time, make mention that his credentials are accomplishments unmatched.
Also it's very important to remember this, I forget about it all the time, text can easily be misinterpreted depending upon how you may have read it not matching up with the writers intention.
Delete this if you want, but I felt an obligation to make this post because if I could say it right we could keep focus on the true gift this place is because of the people who contribute.
Thanks and sorry for this being so long. 😂

My milage does vary, a lot. No one has more respect for David E's accomplishments than I.We have both been on this site for literally decades, and over the years we have at times both strongly agreed and disagreed with each other. That is how discussions work.

In this case he arrogantly preferenced his post with the "this is the second time I have had to correct..." schoolmarm schtick, leaving no doubt as to his tone or meaning - he is the arbitrator of what is right and wrong and he is going to let us know in the strongest (and in my opinion, rudest) manner possible.

Furthermore, as I (and others) noted, being technically correct was not necessary to the point of the post, and actually would have detracted from it. Had I said "Tom Rounds' AT Top 40" it could easily be miataken by many for some other countdown, not the beloved AT Top 40 hosted by Casey Kasem to which I was referring.

And I do not accept the premise that David E. is above calling out, either due to his career achievements or his status as moderator. His response was rude, condescending, and not at all in the positve discussion spirit of the thread and added nothing to it. It deserved to be called out and was.

 

[davideduardo]

My milage does vary, a lot. No one has more respect for David E's accomplishments than I.We have both been on this site for literally decades, and over the years we have at times both strongly agreed and disagreed with each other. That is how discussions work.

In this case he arrogantly preferenced his post with the "this is the second time I have had to correct..." schoolmarm schtick, leaving no doubt as to his tone or meaning - he is the arbitrator of what is right and wrong and he is going to let us know in the strongest (and in my opinion, rudest) manner possible.

Furthermore, as I (and others) noted, being technically correct was not necessary to the point of the post, and actually would have detracted from it. Had I said "Tom Rounds' AT Top 40" it could easily be miataken by many for some other countdown, not the beloved AT Top 40 hosted by Casey Kasem to which I was referring.

And I do not accept the premise that David E. is above calling out, either due to his career achievements or his status as moderator. His response was rude, condescending, and not at all in the positve discussion spirit of the thread and added nothing to it. It deserved to be called out and was.

The fact is that AT40 did not belong to Casey Kasem, despite his magnificent performance over so many years. The fact is that Casey did not create the concept of the show, despite his ability to grab the concept and run with it for years. The fact is that the overall concept of AT40 including content and the unique and new barter system for financing came from Tom Rounds. The fact is that botth Rounds and Jacobs created the program structure and hired the right people to write and produce and voice the show.

Oh, and the fact is that I was TR's friend for over 20 years, during which time I also produced several of the HitDisks in association with TM Century and later independently just for Radio Express, TR's company after Watermark was sold. And I was the original producer of The World Chart Show, Round's international version of AT40.

In other words, my knowledge and experience don't let me accept your statement that Casey Kasem was the creator of AT40 as it denigrates the genius of Tom Round's work all through his career, from his work at KPOI to the success of KFRC to his creation of the concept that spawned Woodstock to AT40 and many other achievements.

 

[radiocph]

And with less talent being developed in the non-prime hours because we're running canned stuff, where do we find the next generation talent as the old folks retire?

Robots on the radio: local radio station weighs in on first AI disc jockey

"AI Ashley," an artificial intelligence radio host, made its debut on the air at a radio station in Portland, Oregon. We talked to a radio station in Towson to find out how they feel about it.

www.wmar2news.com

 

[Daryl Lynn L.A.]

This is for everybody here who worked as an on-air talent. If you had a 5 day a week air part, how did you decide what your content would be? How did you decide what to say on the air? Obviously, when Casey did Am. Top 40, he looked up different facts or chart positions on the songs he played, so he knew a lot about artists, songwriters, producers, etc. He was prepared in advance to do patter on the air, so his show flowed smoothly.

If you have a daily 3 hour show of music, how do you prepare for the gig each day? Before you go in a studio, do you write out a list of ideas or topics that you want to mention on the air? Do you think about in advance any comedy shtick that you want to do? Do you decide in advance what your material will be for your shift?

As a high school teacher, I was required to do a lot of preparation and always write a lesson plan. I had to write out a lecture and know the material I was going to present. I had to decide what the topic was going to be, how long the discussion would be, whether or not I would lecture each day, or whether we would break up into small group discussion, whether or not students would present their own material, etc.

But when I listen to air talent these days, some people appear to be good at "winging it", just ad libbing; and some people have the script prepared in advance. Charlemagne, for example, knows who the on-air guest will be, so he has an idea of questions to ask.
Bobby Bones has an idea of news topics, so when he does a discussion with his team, he knows what questions to ask.

How do you prepare, and what determines a successful air talent with one who is just mediocre? Thanks in advance for your feedback. -- Daryl

 

[Daryl Lynn L.A.]

Also -- if the only requirements needed to be an overnight DJ were to: show up on time and not be a criminal or a druggie, then wouldn't there be many applicants for the job? Wouldn't there be many people who thought that was the easiest job in the world? Just show up, play songs, play commercials, and say as little as possible?