So nobody in SF wants country, huh?

[simonsays]

As if anyone needs more proof that Bonneville management is clueless...

KRTY, 870 watts and no signal in the city or north, scores its highest 12+ in San Francisco, significantly better than Max. Add in KATM and KRPQ and you have a viable country market, especially considering more than 1/2 the market can't even hear any of those stations.

Ya think Bonneville would like to go back to May 2005 and be happy with 12+ shares that were higher than KZLA scores in its market. You don't see Emmis pissing a good thing away in search of a winning lottery ticket.

Earth to Salt Lake... it's was sales problem, not a programming problem!

 

[KMRichards]

> As if anyone needs more proof that Bonneville management is
> clueless...
>
> KRTY, 870 watts and no signal in the city or north, scores
> its highest 12+ in San Francisco, significantly better than
> Max. Add in KATM and KRPQ and you have a viable country
> market, especially considering more than 1/2 the market
> can't even hear any of those stations.
>
> Ya think Bonneville would like to go back to May 2005 and be
> happy with 12+ shares that were higher than KZLA scores in
> its market. You don't see Emmis pissing a good thing away
> in search of a winning lottery ticket.

12+, 12+, 12+, 12+ ...

Get it through your heads, people ... format decisions are <u>not</u> made based on 12+ numbers!

A "viable country market" would be based on how well the mentioned stations do in the target demographics. KZLA does well enough in the target -- and also has a market exclusive format in Los Angeles -- to be very successful. Such is not the case for a market where the format is split between three stations, whose combined signals do not reach 50% of the market.

Simplistic posts like the above show a basic lack of understanding about the business.<P ID="signature">______________


</P>

 

[seaqkumba]

> A "viable country market" would be based on how well the
> mentioned stations do in the target demographics. KZLA does
> well enough in the target -- and also has a market exclusive
> format in Los Angeles -- to be very successful. Such is not
> the case for a market where the format is split between
> three stations, whose combined signals do not reach 50% of
> the market.
> Simplistic posts like the above show a basic lack of
> understanding about the business.

I totally agree... but I think Bonneville could have gotten better demographic numbers if they knew how to program country for the Bay Area... they could have started with truly entertaining air talent and a more adult top 40/hot AC presentation tailored to the Bay Area. The plain vanilla crap that they were broadcasting (kind of like Max is right now) was lucky to get even the 12+ share that it did.

 

[simonsays]

Now whose being simplistic?

KZBR had a bigger 12+ share (and growing) than KZLA, even with KRTY, KATM and KRPQ picking off market share but little SF revenue. In fact, just before they flipped, the country share in the market was nearly a 4, way more than LA. And if you knew anything about country demos, you wouldn't need 25-54 numbers to figure out that country's 25-54 share was much higher than a 4 share.

But just for kicks, let's look at 25-54. KZBR's 25-54 at the end was higher than their 12+ and it was still rising. Max's 25-54 is less than 1/2 of The Bear's 25-54 at the end... gee remarkably similar to their 12+ relationship. How can that possibly be??

One may not make format decisions based on 12+ but those numbers are certainly valid and illustrative enough even for simplistic non-moderators to opine with relative accuracy.





> 12+, 12+, 12+, 12+ ...
>
> Get it through your heads, people ... format decisions are
> not made based on 12+ numbers!
>
> A "viable country market" would be based on how well the
> mentioned stations do in the target demographics. KZLA does
> well enough in the target -- and also has a market exclusive
> format in Los Angeles -- to be very successful. Such is not
> the case for a market where the format is split between
> three stations, whose combined signals do not reach 50% of
> the market.
>
> Simplistic posts like the above show a basic lack of
> understanding about the business.
>

 

[radioresearcher]

> > A "viable country market" would be based on how well the
> > mentioned stations do in the target demographics. KZLA
> does
> > well enough in the target -- and also has a market
> exclusive
> > format in Los Angeles -- to be very successful. Such is
> not
> > the case for a market where the format is split between
> > three stations, whose combined signals do not reach 50% of
>
> > the market.
> > Simplistic posts like the above show a basic lack of
> > understanding about the business.
>
> I totally agree... but I think Bonneville could have gotten
> better demographic numbers if they knew how to program
> country for the Bay Area... they could have started with
> truly entertaining air talent and a more adult top 40/hot AC
> presentation tailored to the Bay Area. The plain vanilla
> crap that they were broadcasting (kind of like Max is right
> now) was lucky to get even the 12+ share that it did.
>

KZQZ and the CHR format was their best opportunity for success... They got it up to around a 3.0 share at one point, and there's a wide open hole for it.

 

[radioresearcher]

> > A "viable country market" would be based on how well the
> > mentioned stations do in the target demographics. KZLA
> does
> > well enough in the target -- and also has a market
> exclusive
> > format in Los Angeles -- to be very successful. Such is
> not
> > the case for a market where the format is split between
> > three stations, whose combined signals do not reach 50% of
>
> > the market.
> > Simplistic posts like the above show a basic lack of
> > understanding about the business.
>
> I totally agree... but I think Bonneville could have gotten
> better demographic numbers if they knew how to program
> country for the Bay Area... they could have started with
> truly entertaining air talent and a more adult top 40/hot AC
> presentation tailored to the Bay Area. The plain vanilla
> crap that they were broadcasting (kind of like Max is right
> now) was lucky to get even the 12+ share that it did.
>

KZQZ and the CHR format was their best opportunity for success... They got it up to around a 3.0 share at one point, and there's a wide open hole for it. I'd rather have an EXCLUSIVE format in the Bay like CHR - than Country - which is being picked at by San Jose, Santa Rosa, etc - plus CHR drives cume and appeals to a multi-ethnic audience.

 

[Jay_F]

> > A "viable country market" would be based on how well the
> > mentioned stations do in the target demographics. KZLA
> does
> > well enough in the target -- and also has a market
> exclusive
> > format in Los Angeles -- to be very successful. Such is
> not
> > the case for a market where the format is split between
> > three stations, whose combined signals do not reach 50% of
>
> > the market.
> > Simplistic posts like the above show a basic lack of
> > understanding about the business.
>
> I totally agree... but I think Bonneville could have gotten
> better demographic numbers if they knew how to program
> country for the Bay Area... they could have started with
> truly entertaining air talent and a more adult top 40/hot AC
> presentation tailored to the Bay Area. The plain vanilla
> crap that they were broadcasting (kind of like Max is right
> now) was lucky to get even the 12+ share that it did.
>


Actually the BEAR was showing slow but steady growth. I would guess (and maybe someone here could confirm it) that they had better 25-54 numbers as country than they do right now. I have rarely or never seen stations below a 1 share 12+ do well in any demo whatsoever.

What everyone is forgetting is that Bonneville wanted to beat CBS to the Variety Hits format. They wanted (and successfully stopped) to prevent a JACK station from hitting the Bay area. At the time of the flip, stations were trying to beat each other to the punch to the trendy VH format. Just about everyday stations were flipping to VH. I doubt that Bonneville expected MAX to be a ratings failure, just about the same day they flipped a station in ST Louis to VH (once again beating CBS to the punch) and that station is a huge success..#1 25-54.

Still, Bonneville would have never taken the gamble if they thought there was a lot of potential for the country format. San Francisco isn't and probably never will be a "country market". The best the format can be there is a niche.

What I find interesting is that the two markets where Variety Hits has gotten off to the worst starts (New York and San Francisco) are the only two markets without a country station.

 

[sfradio]

> > > A "viable country market" would be based on how well the
>
> > > mentioned stations do in the target demographics. KZLA
> > does
> > > well enough in the target -- and also has a market
> > exclusive
> > > format in Los Angeles -- to be very successful. Such is
>
> > not
> > > the case for a market where the format is split between
> > > three stations, whose combined signals do not reach 50%
> of
> >
> > > the market.
> > > Simplistic posts like the above show a basic lack of
> > > understanding about the business.
> >
> > I totally agree... but I think Bonneville could have
> gotten
> > better demographic numbers if they knew how to program
> > country for the Bay Area... they could have started with
> > truly entertaining air talent and a more adult top 40/hot
> AC
> > presentation tailored to the Bay Area. The plain vanilla
> > crap that they were broadcasting (kind of like Max is
> right
> > now) was lucky to get even the 12+ share that it did.
> >
>
> KZQZ and the CHR format was their best opportunity for
> success... They got it up to around a 3.0 share at one
> point, and there's a wide open hole for it. I'd rather have
> an EXCLUSIVE format in the Bay like CHR - than Country -
> which is being picked at by San Jose, Santa Rosa, etc - plus
> CHR drives cume and appeals to a multi-ethnic audience.
>
I agree after taking off the chr format they made the frequenzy doomed, thats also why country failed too, no young person what so ever thinks of going to 95.7 whitch made them sufer<P ID="signature">______________
http://natedoggairchecks.6x.to/
xxnate_doggxx (at) myway (dot) com</P>

 

[JustinT]

> What everyone is forgetting is that Bonneville wanted to
> beat CBS to the Variety Hits format. They wanted (and
> successfully stopped) to prevent a JACK station from hitting
> the Bay area. At the time of the flip, stations were trying
> to beat each other to the punch to the trendy VH format.
> Just about everyday stations were flipping to VH. I doubt
> that Bonneville expected MAX to be a ratings failure, just
> about the same day they flipped a station in ST Louis to VH
> (once again beating CBS to the punch) and that station is a
> huge success..#1 25-54.

> What I find interesting is that the two markets where
> Variety Hits has gotten off to the worst starts (New York
> and San Francisco) are the only two markets without a
> country station.

"Mike FM" in Boston got off to a lousy start as well, and is still doing poorly.

The connection with Max? Boston and San Francisco were the two markets where Infinity was one day away from launching real "Jack FM" stations in both, before they were beaten to it by Entercom and Bonneville, respectively. And just like Bonneville, Entercom owns one station that's doing the format right (KYCH in Portland).

 

[Brangeno]

I just want a dance station that dosent play diva/ cornball tracks. And for more rock english speaking stations to start coming back.

 

[LKellerIII]

>
> I agree after taking off the chr format they made the
> frequenzy doomed, thats also why country failed too, no
> young person what so ever thinks of going to 95.7 whitch
> made them sufer.

Really? So Max is not getting listeners partially because people are angry at the 95.7 frequency for taking away Z-95.7? I don't think the average listener cares. If there's a problem, it's because formats, frequencies and ownerships have changed so fast and so often the past decade that average listeners can't keep up. That's why call letters (or brand names) are so important to these companies, and are worth a lot of money. People were able to find "Wild" when it moved to 94.9 without any trouble. If KFRC changed frequencies, people would find it quickly. But "Max" is a new brand, and Bonneville's strange lack of promotion and advertising in other media is hurting them. I think I've seen one Max billboard since the station went on the air - and they ran TV commercials for about a week. I doubt most listeners realize that the station even has the same ownership as in the mid 90s, nor do they care.
>