So, now is the time for KTCK-FM?

[txchipk]

I've brought this up before figuring it was only a matter of time WBAP, KRLD, or KTCK would get a full-power competitor. Now that KTCK has one in KLLI 105.3, is it finally time to bury low-rated KDBN 93.3 and flip it to a simulcast?

I've thought they've needed to make the move for some time. We see AM signals across the country making the move to FM to protect their brand against aging demos or new FM competitors. 50kw news/talk outlets KIRO Seattle and KCBS Los Angeles have moved to FM (replacing classic hits KBSG Seattle and KFRC-FM San Francisco) in recent months. In the last year, sports KKFN Denver and WXYT Detroit have moved to FM (replacing smooth jazz KJCD Denver and another failed "Free FM" in Detroit). CBS put sports on its 105.7 Baltimore -- making the 4th sports outlet in that town; Bonneville plans to launch an FM sports station in St Louis, that also has a couple of existing sports stations.

If KLLI is programmed like its sisters WIP Philly, WJZ-FM Baltimore, WFAN New York, WXYT-AM/FM Detroit, it will be local sports and not relying on the "network trough," which makes it potentially a real challenger, unlike KESN. Disney has always said the Radio Disney and ESPN stations exist solely for clearing the content nationally to extend the brands, which is why KMKI and KESN and the other O&Os weren't sold to Citadel. So, KESN will always be forced to clear Mike & Mike and other shows and never be fully local.

With KTCK's primary 1310 signal still not restored to full strength and now another station in town is on a signal that can be heard in office buildings, at night, etc. that can talk about "our teams in our town" all day, will they finally get a FM simulcast that covers the bulk of the population? (Yes, I know they have KTDK 104.1 Sanger...but its a minimal C3 that only covers some of the northern suburbs; they really need KTDK and KDBN to cover the majority of population in the market).

 

[theradiokid]

A sort of off the topic question, but, you seem to be very knowing about this situation. What network does 1310 clear, or, is it mostly local sports?

--The Radio Kid
(AKA Oswego Jeremy, as nicknamed by George of the Radio Racket.)
My email: [email protected]

 

[NealH]

A sort of off the topic question, but, you seem to be very knowing about this situation. What network does 1310 clear, or, is it mostly local sports?

--The Radio Kid
(AKA Oswego Jeremy, as nicknamed by George of the Radio Racket.)
My email: [email protected]

When KTCK isn't "Live & Local" they carry the Dan Patrick show time-shifted and use Sporting News Radio at other times.

 

[johnqdoe]

PPM numbers haven't been kind to the Ticket. They're not bad...but no longer #1 across the board the way they want you to think. We'll see what CBS does. Will they try to out-Ticket theTicket with lifestyle talk?

 

[salemjedi54]

If its not broke, don't fix it. Sometimes its hard for 93.3 to get in office buildings. You better have a very good radio. I listen to The Ticket via the internet. I like it that way. I don't have to bring my radio to work.

 

[Slambang]

They have the 104.1 simulcast, which depending on where you at, can come in crystal clear or faded. I think its time the bone gets buried on 104.1 and they move KTCK to the 93.3 simulcast slot.

 

[bucwhyl]

Three sports stations on FM? Are you serious? You say that there are too many urbans and too many spanish stations, well add sports to the overkill if you do that.

 

[txchipk]

Three sports stations on FM? Are you serious? You say that there are too many urbans and too many spanish stations, well add sports to the overkill if you do that.

I never said that...listeners will decide if there are too many Spanish-language stations or hip-hop stations or religious stations or country or all-Christmas stations in November. My comments on the state of our Spanish-language and urban ACs in the past have been most of them are on poor facilities to reach their target audience.

I bring the topic up since I think most people, whether they like the station or not, would agree KTCK has built a pretty powerful brand around these parts. In a lot of other markets, some AMs with big brands have moved to FM or added a FM simulcast to protect -- either against a new competitor, to pre-empt a new competitor, or protect 25-54 numbers. In KTCK's, their primary signal is reduced, they have a full market FM competitor, they've seen a drop in 25-54 numbers with PPM.

The move to FM of news/talk stations in Washington, Seattle, and other markets and the move to FM of one of the Jacksonville sports stations included comments from their management about the long-term future of the AM dial and the 25-54 numbers. Because of what the majority of stations on the AM dial have mostly offered in the last 25 years -- brokered ethnic and religious programming, talk, big band music, etc. -- people now in their 20s and 30s have largely grown up with that band as a non-option. This is a growing market --- there a lots of people in their 20s and 30s moving here who will never turn on the AM dial and find WBAP, KRLD, or KTCK, but will find a FM competitor. That trend doesn't seem likely to reverse.

As for 3 stations...Houston has 4 (3 AM, 1 FM), Baltimore has 4 (3 AM, 1 FM), St Louis will have 4 with launch of the new WMVN-FM there (3 AM, 1 FM), San Diego has 3 (2 AM, 1 AM/FM simulcast), Denver has 3 (2AM , 1 FM), Nashville has 3 (1 AM, 2 FM), Columbia SC has 3 (1 AM, 2 FM), and so on. Large or small market, there are dozens of markets with 3 or more sports stations. As for too many competing FM sports stations, there are markets smaller than this one with a smaller number of FM facilities that have competing FM sports stations...Nashville, Little Rock, Columbia, Portland ME, Fort Smith AR. Albuquerque even has 1 English FM sports stations and 1 Spanish-language FM sports station now.

 

[Lancer]

Lots of things have been beaten into the ground, like reality shows on TV. Not that there is anything "real" about reality shows, besides being really stupid.

FM Sports Radio is the new flavor of the week. There won't be as many sports stations on the dial once the dust settles. It's a cycle. Suddenly every station has to be the new "hot" format - be it Country, Tejano, Jack, Sports, you name it. You look up one day & the majority of the stations are that one format. Then they quietly switch formats a few months later, one by one.

Why come up with anything original when you can just ride the coattails of what's hot this week. Although, look where the record industry is now.

 

[salemjedi54]

Three sports stations on FM? Are you serious? You say that there are too many urbans and too many spanish stations, well add sports to the overkill if you do that.

I never said that...listeners will decide if there are too many Spanish-language stations or hip-hop stations or religious stations or country or all-Christmas stations in November. My comments on the state of our Spanish-language and urban ACs in the past have been most of them are on poor facilities to reach their target audience.

I bring the topic up since I think most people, whether they like the station or not, would agree KTCK has built a pretty powerful brand around these parts. In a lot of other markets, some AMs with big brands have moved to FM or added a FM simulcast to protect -- either against a new competitor, to pre-empt a new competitor, or protect 25-54 numbers. In KTCK's, their primary signal is reduced, they have a full market FM competitor, they've seen a drop in 25-54 numbers with PPM.

The move to FM of news/talk stations in Washington, Seattle, and other markets and the move to FM of one of the Jacksonville sports stations included comments from their management about the long-term future of the AM dial and the 25-54 numbers. Because of what the majority of stations on the AM dial have mostly offered in the last 25 years -- brokered ethnic and religious programming, talk, big band music, etc. -- people now in their 20s and 30s have largely grown up with that band as a non-option. This is a growing market --- there a lots of people in their 20s and 30s moving here who will never turn on the AM dial and find WBAP, KRLD, or KTCK, but will find a FM competitor. That trend doesn't seem likely to reverse.

As for 3 stations...Houston has 4 (3 AM, 1 FM), Baltimore has 4 (3 AM, 1 FM), St Louis will have 4 with launch of the new WMVN-FM there (3 AM, 1 FM), San Diego has 3 (2 AM, 1 AM/FM simulcast), Denver has 3 (2AM , 1 FM), Nashville has 3 (1 AM, 2 FM), Columbia SC has 3 (1 AM, 2 FM), and so on. Large or small market, there are dozens of markets with 3 or more sports stations. As for too many competing FM sports stations, there are markets smaller than this one with a smaller number of FM facilities that have competing FM sports stations...Nashville, Little Rock, Columbia, Portland ME, Fort Smith AR. Albuquerque even has 1 English FM sports stations and 1 Spanish-language FM sports station now.

KTCK has been back at full power for about a month. They could add 93.3 as another FM simulcast but I don't think they should totally move off the 1310 facility.

 

[whodatdj]

While you may increase some at work listening in the cubicle farm by putting the ticket on 93.3 it's still a marginal signal in most areas. Ask anyone that tries to tune it in at their house for a Cowboy's broadcast. That being said the Bone format is cheap to put on the air (P&K in the afternoon might be the exception) and brings in a decent amount of revenue. I don't see putting the Ticket on 93.3 increasing revenue enough to offset the lose of revenue that the Bone creates.

A smarter move would be to put the Ticket on 570 since it has a better signal during the day (almost to Austin) and a much, much better signal at night.

1310 can then be the talk radio clearing house that KLIF has become. It has enough signal to allow the national shows to say they are cleared in Dallas/Fort Worth.

 

[radioaircheck]

That would be wild. Norm would be backon 570 again. It will be interesting to see what they do.

 

[EbolaMonkey]

I like talk on AM. You don't get the smacking and saliva pops and other gross sounds on an AM talker.

If signal is the problem, I'd rather see the Ticket go to 570 than FM. Either way, 93.3 is not the answer. Cumulus needs a new strong FM property if they want to go that direction.

 

[lafayetteindependentradio]

While you may increase some at work listening in the cubicle farm by putting the ticket on 93.3 it's still a marginal signal in most areas. Ask anyone that tries to tune it in at their house for a Cowboy's broadcast. That being said the Bone format is cheap to put on the air (P&K in the afternoon might be the exception) and brings in a decent amount of revenue. I don't see putting the Ticket on 93.3 increasing revenue enough to offset the lose of revenue that the Bone creates.

A smarter move would be to put the Ticket on 570 since it has a better signal during the day (almost to Austin) and a much, much better signal at night.

1310 can then be the talk radio clearing house that KLIF has become. It has enough signal to allow the national shows to say they are cleared in Dallas/Fort Worth.

I also agree with this. Though KTCK presently doubles KLIF's share according to the Summer 2008 Arbitron ratings.

 

[txchipk]

While you may increase some at work listening in the cubicle farm by putting the ticket on 93.3 it's still a marginal signal in most areas. Ask anyone that tries to tune it in at their house for a Cowboy's broadcast. That being said the Bone format is cheap to put on the air (P&K in the afternoon might be the exception) and brings in a decent amount of revenue. I don't see putting the Ticket on 93.3 increasing revenue enough to offset the lose of revenue that the Bone creates.

Would it really be that hard? As a talk outlet, KTCK has the advantage of running more than twice as many spots an hour than what KDBN can, not to mention the numerous sponsored segments. In other words, switching 93.3 to a FM simulcast would mean the new KTCK-FM could generate half the audience KDBN and not lose any revenue. That's not factoring in that you have done away with all the costs of running a separate format on 93.3 that you have today.

A smarter move would be to put the Ticket on 570 since it has a better signal during the day (almost to Austin) and a much, much better signal at night.

It doesn't solve the longer term issue of how does KTCK bring in younger audiences to replenish those that age out of the 25-54 by staying on AM, particularly with its competitors on FM. A better AM signal isn't going to fix that. Big 50 kw news/talkers KSL, WTOP, KIRO, KCBS, etc. all went to or added full-market FM signal simulcasts precisely because they don't want to end like WBAP and KRLD with declining 25-54 numbers since their audiences are rapidly aging and people in there is no younger audiences coming in since people in their 20s and early 30s don't even consider going to the AM dial.

 

[NealH]

A smarter move would be to put the Ticket on 570 since it has a better signal during the day (almost to Austin) and a much, much better signal at night.

It doesn't solve the longer term issue of how does KTCK bring in younger audiences to replenish those that age out of the 25-54 by staying on AM, particularly with its competitors on FM. A better AM signal isn't going to fix that. Big 50 kw news/talkers KSL, WTOP, KIRO, KCBS, etc. all went to or added full-market FM signal simulcasts precisely because they don't want to end like WBAP and KRLD with declining 25-54 numbers since their audiences are rapidly aging and people in there is no younger audiences coming in since people in their 20s and early 30s don't even consider going to the AM dial.

93.3's signal doesn't buy Cumulus any leverage if CBS's goal is taking the Cowboys from them. 93.3 is an inferior signal compared to 105.3 1310's night pattern and the far north coverage provided by 104.1 don't help, either.

If (and that's a big IF) HD radio lives up to its promise, the AM/FM argument will be a moot point.

 

[little1]

Would it really be that hard? As a talk outlet, KTCK has the advantage of running more than twice as many spots an hour than what KDBN can,

Twice? KZPS and KDBN both run, by my listening, 2 either 5 or 6 minute breaks. 10-12 minutes total. Do you really think KTCK is running 20-24 minutes of spots? I hear 3 breaks averaging 5 minutes a piece there.

It doesn't solve the longer term issue of how does KTCK bring in younger audiences to replenish those that age out of the 25-54 by staying on AM, particularly with its competitors on FM.

Do you have anything to back this up, or is this just conjecture? Because if they're a top 5 station Men 25-54, odds are their audience is spread throughout that demo. In other words, what makes you think that KTCK's audience is aging out of 25-54?

 

[whodatdj]

Would it really be that hard? As a talk outlet, KTCK has the advantage of running more than twice as many spots an hour than what KDBN can, not to mention the numerous sponsored segments. In other words, switching 93.3 to a FM simulcast would mean the new KTCK-FM could generate half the audience KDBN and not lose any revenue. That's not factoring in that you have done away with all the costs of running a separate format on 93.3 that you have today.

The audience gains of having KTCK simulcast on 93.3 would most likely be marginal. Certainly it would move some AM Ticket listeners to the FM signal but overall the audience wouldn't grow to the point that you could justify losing a product for your sales force. Remember it's all about the combo sell for clients. Pair a package that offers spots on the Bone, and KTCK. Or the Wolf and Bone. Or KLIF and KTCK.

If you have access to Arbitron data pull the 104.1 numbers and see what the overall gain from that signal is. Again we're talking about 93.3 not some big class C 100K blow torch.

 

[txchipk]

It doesn't solve the longer term issue of how does KTCK bring in younger audiences to replenish those that age out of the 25-54 by staying on AM, particularly with its competitors on FM.

Do you have anything to back this up, or is this just conjecture? Because if they're a top 5 station Men 25-54, odds are their audience is spread throughout that demo. In other words, what makes you think that KTCK's audience is aging out of 25-54?

If you read my post, I said "longer term issue" referring to the issue that younger listeners do not embrace the AM dial. Maybe Dallas/Fort Worth will be different than other places where younger people will discover the AM dial and KTCK, KRLD, and WBAP never will have to worry about aging audiences in the future.

Seems like this is a concern to a lot of currently well-billing AM stations in a lot of other markets who think they need to make the move to avoid this problem down the road...

From the Seattle P-I article on KIRO's move to FM, replacing a FM station with much better 25-54 numbers than KDBN:
"The move also gives Bonneville a way of dealing with the trend of many listeners, especially younger members of the audience, spending most of their time with FM. "You open yourself to a whole new audience who may never go over to the AM dial," said Rod Arquette, program director for KIRO...""

From the Jacksonville Times-Union on sports WJXL's move to FM:
"WJXL program director Jason Dixon said Thursday that the station hopes to reach new listeners by putting its programming on the FM station."There's a huge chunk of the audience that never turns on the AM band," he said.""

KCBS's release on why they move to FM, displacing a co-owned FM with similar ratings as KDBN:
""With this announcement we are ensuring our listeners will have access to the superior news and information they've come to rely on no matter how they choose to receive their audio content," said Doug Harvill, Senior Vice President and Market Manager for CBS Radio San Francisco. "And not only that, having the station on the FM radio platform will afford us the opportunity to amass even more consumers of the station. The benefits of this move are plentiful -- from improved sound quality and ubiquitous distribution, to increased brand exposure.""

Those being some of the most recent flips. Similar comments were echoed by the numerous other AM-to-FM migrations or new FM sports or FM talk start-ups...


I don't work in the radio industry and never have. So, the "normal" "average" listeners I work with, who are mostly in their 30s, don't listen to AM radio. One listens to KESN since KTCK is too hard to get (disappears at night, hard to pick up at work, etc.). I suspect KESN gets a lot of its audience by default like this. If KLLI settles on any sort of decent line-up, I suspect KESN will feel it. I still think long-term, KTCK will face a problem of erosion unless they can convince younger guys to discover the AM dial.