So when does the great AM die-off begin?

[Nostalgia]

My experience in that is that the only way to do that is through non-commercial means. Because as long as the profit motive is involved, and advertising is being sought, the broadcasters will always seek greater and greater audiences, which means the station leaves the rural area.

Historically, radio was NOT meant as a rural device. Radio stations were based in large cities, with signals loud enough to be heard everywhere. The concern was not to serve small communities, but provide entertainment and information to the masses.

I must beg to differ with you on this point. Back in he day you had 4 main classes of AM stations, plus a couple of sub-categories. There mainly were the 50kw clear channel Class 1, wide area but shared channel class 2 running 10kw+, regional 5kw class 3 and LOCAL class 4 stations typically 1000day/250 night and of course some daytimers. And by LOCAL I am implying rural/small market because you are correct in one point, the Class 1 & 2 stations were in the Big Cities, Class 3s were in medium sized cities. Although I have no hard data to back up my hypothesis, the demise of the Class 3 & 4 stations can be tied to the consolidatiion and speculation that saddled these small stations with huge debt load, either directly or as contributors to the corporate big pot to shore up other stations the speculators purchased. Or worse, to fund certain lifestyles and/or simply purchase other stations without plowing money back into the stations they did buy. I am sure others will point out that it affects all stations and they would be right, except it affects the smaller markets harder because the have a smaller advertiser base to pull from, and those smaller advertisers are more likely to be affected by the economy than their larger brothers in the big cities. Anectodal stories about successful small stations in small markets do point to the fact that if stations were living within their means they could still survive on ad revenues.

Even now as these people try to unload these stations they are faced with the unpleasant reality of selling them at current realistic market prices and taking the loss, or trying to at least get what they paid for them when the market was hot, which is mostly the case today. There are some going at market rates, you have to watch very carefully for them and be ready to pounce. And be prepared to go to a small market and become the new generation of Mom and Pop operators. Indeed, by doing so you may become the future of AM radio.

 

[TheBigA]

Anectodal stories about successful small stations in small markets do point to the fact that if stations were living within their means they could still survive on ad revenues.

Back in the day, there were fewer stations in those markets. The class 4 in my hometown was the ONLY radio station in a 20 mile radius. Now that same town has 4 stations. The population is about the same. The math doesn't work.

This class 4 tried to stay live & local with all the competition, but 90% of the audience was choosing to listen to a larger city station 40 miles away. After years of falling revenues, the station has turned over large portions of its day to syndication. They didn't want to do it. In fact the GM held an on-air call-in show to discuss the changes with the listeners, and a lot of listeners were unhappy. But what could the station do?

 

[davideduardo]

Small market radio thrived very well in towns like Russellville, Conway, Stuttgart,

The duck capital of the world, and home to KWAK, a class IV that in the 50's and 60's made a very nice living serving all the duck farmers (duck ranchers? duck herders?)

Fast forward to today. Get out your atlas and focus on Toccoa, GA. Locate there a man by the name of Art Sutton. Try and explain to Art that stations cannot thrive and survive in small markets. Art seems to be a nice guy who will treat you with civility, but intellectually, he will hand you back your head in a basket. Look up his group of stations and size up his markets. And despite your claim that ad-supported media can't possibly work in markets like the ones served by Mr. Sutton, year after year he seems to find the cash somewhere to expand a bit, and upgrade a bit. And just about every state in the union seems to have at least two or three operators who are in "the Art Sutton Class".

I met Art when we both bid on a 1935 Broadcasting Yearbook on eBay. He won, but kindly sent me the book to copy. It's at http://www.davidgleason.com/Broadcasting 1935 Yearbook Page Range Guide.htm

In the process, I found Art's website and discovered that this gentleman who has a love for the history and tradition of radio is preserving the kind of local service we don't much see anymore. You picked a marvelous example and introduced an excellent citizen, broadcaster and community servant to some here.

 

[davideduardo]

Back in the day, there were fewer stations in those markets. The class 4 in my hometown was the ONLY radio station in a 20 mile radius. Now that same town has 4 stations. The population is about the same. The math doesn't work.

Two more examples. I worked summers at WCCW in Traverse City, MI. There were 2 stations, WCCW, a daytimer on 1310 and WTCM, a Class IV. Where I lived, 20 miles north, there was no local night service, and WTCM barely made it in the daytime, and did not come in during thunderstorms.

Today, the place with no night service has a 60 dbu from over a dozen FMs, all in the Traverse City NW Michigan market. And one of the AMs, WTCM, moved to 580 and booms in. Traverse City is not that big, and it has one station for about every 3,000 persons.

And then the company I was running bought an AM FM in Lake City, FL just before Docket 80-90. There were two AMs and one FM in a county of 40,000 and our AM was on 1340... we did a block of local news in the morning, at noon, and late afternoon. Births at the hospital, funeral notices, sheriff did the crime report, HS coach had a show, Fridays had the local games. Station staff would be locked in the jail until "bailed out" with donations for the new fire engine... and on and on.

Docket 80-90 brought 3 more FMs. They all did satellite, they all sold $3 spots, they ruined the market. We were making a nice profit, and went into the red. All the services were cut, and we sold it... about the time that the HS decided with so many stations they could sell rights to HS football... nobody is running the games now.

Docket 80-90 killed local service in hundreds of small markets. Most smaller market stations didn't have major debt, and were not part of consolidation. They were killed or wounded by the FCC's mistaken idea that more radio stations provide more programming diversity. Yeah, they force each station to pick a different satellite format...

 

[davideduardo]

Historically, radio was NOT meant as a rural device. Radio stations were based in large cities, with signals loud enough to be heard everywhere. The concern was not to serve small communities, but provide entertainment and information to the masses. In the last 30-40 years, we've changed the concept of radio, mainly because of over-licensing the spectrum, where everyone has the right, so to speak, to have their own radio station. That concept doesn't fit with the basic system of ad-supported media.

Your perspective of the world is quite different than it is for some of us. My observations of your postings tell me you see the world from maybe upstate New York.

My earliest memories are about a piece of virgin land carved out of the mesquite of south Texas. A trip to town to buy groceries was 20 miles, half of it gravel road. Sitting on a bench crafted by my dad to fit in the back of a 36 Ford pick-up, and the bench doubled as a tailgate when we took a load of squash or peanuts or tomatoes to town.

For health reasons we "transplanted" our farming to the Ozarks. The beginning hey-day for small town radio dates to the end of World War II, not the 70s and 80s. Small market radio thrived very well in towns like Russellville, Conway, Stuttgart, Crossett, Hope (remember Bill Clinton?), and Springdale AR... towns then in the 4,000 to 12,000 population. Have you not become aware of the dynasty my old mentor Jerrell Shepherd developed starting in 1950 in dingy, non-glamorous Moberly, Mo, population 13,000 back then.

From about 1948 to 1968, a class IV (now class C) station in a town of 8,000 to 12,000 people could be a ticket to prominence in your state in some parts of the country and a suitable way to put your kids through college while being a part of the whirl at the local country club.

Fast forward to today. Get out your atlas and focus on Toccoa, GA. Locate there a man by the name of Art Sutton. Try and explain to Art that stations cannot thrive and survive in small markets. Art seems to be a nice guy who will treat you with civility, but intellectually, he will hand you back your head in a basket. Look up his group of stations and size up his markets. And despite your claim that ad-supported media can't possibly work in markets like the ones served by Mr. Sutton, year after year he seems to find the cash somewhere to expand a bit, and upgrade a bit. And just about every state in the union seems to have at least two or three operators who are in "the Art Sutton Class".

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

Small market radio thrived very well in towns like Russellville, Conway, Stuttgart,

The duck capital of the world, and home to KWAK, a class IV that in the 50's and 60's made a very nice living serving all the duck farmers (duck ranchers? duck herders?)

What a pitiful looking radio station is was, but what a great event it was for me to be a part of it!!! I left college 1957 and my first day at KWAK was Labor Day. Mel and June Spann were well steeped in radio. During the Depression a young Mel slept on the transmitter building floor at a Little Rock Station to get his start as an engineer. And when we were riding the network, I would grab the NAB Handbook out of the back room and read all the suggested best practices of the era. We had a transcription made by none other than Mel Blanc doing a Donald Duck voicing of a station break which they acquired when the station opened. KWAK. The Voice of the Grand Prairie. The Voice of the Duck Capital of the world. A couple of years of Mel Spann's insistence on good practices and perfectionism has served me well through the years. And the stories!!!! Before I got there, we had the tower knocked down by a crop duster pilot who had his head ducked down to keep the light rain out of his face. He didn't even know he had hit a radio tower. Hitch hike back to the airport or something like that, and told them his plane had been hit by lightning.

And of course, one of the benefits of working at KWAK was working with that soxless guy who posts around here now and then as KUDZOOTER. How could a high school kid have such an intimidating voice?????

Fast forward to today. Get out your atlas and focus on Toccoa, GA. Locate there a man by the name of Art Sutton. Try and explain to Art that stations cannot thrive and survive in small markets. Art seems to be a nice guy who will treat you with civility, but intellectually, he will hand you back your head in a basket. Look up his group of stations and size up his markets. And despite your claim that ad-supported media can't possibly work in markets like the ones served by Mr. Sutton, year after year he seems to find the cash somewhere to expand a bit, and upgrade a bit. And just about every state in the union seems to have at least two or three operators who are in "the Art Sutton Class".

I met Art when we both bid on a 1935 Broadcasting Yearbook on eBay. He won, but kindly sent me the book to copy. It's at http://www.davidgleason.com/Broadcasting 1935 Yearbook Page Range Guide.htm

In the process, I found Art's website and discovered that this gentleman who has a love for the history and tradition of radio is preserving the kind of local service we don't much see anymore. You picked a marvelous example and introduced an excellent citizen, broadcaster and community servant to some here.

I stopped in one day unannounced to see if I could meet Art, He was very gracious and took me to this hideaway conference room. I was so focused on being a polite guest and getting "out of his face quickly" that only after I had gotten back in my car did I stop to realize we were sitting in a small broadcast museum and I should have asked permission to just wander around the room a bit. Good reason to go back another day.

 

[carolinaradio]

I'm in the Greenville, SC market (actually, Greenville-Spartanburg, #60). Here are the AMs we have here:

http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bi...=Greenville&state=SC&band=Both&dx=0&sort=freq

If the AM dial went away, there would likely be very little mass outcry. What's on AM? A 50kW daytimer that Clear Channel leases for Christian Talk that doesn't even show on the ratings. 2 5kW AM simulcasts that are the News/Talk stations in the market - now heard on a C3 FM that covers the area much better. A 5kW extremely directional (at night) AM at 1440 that Clear Channel simulcasts with an FM (which doesn't even make the book) because the LMA to the Spanish broadcasters ran out and it probably isn't worth programming. And a few 1kw mostly daytime onlys that are Spanish or Religious. AM just no longer has anything to offer here. We had another 50kW AM but it is silent now as there wasn't much interest in it when it was attempted to sell it. I'd imagine other markets are the same. AM is pointless here.

 

[TheBigA]

Your perspective of the world is quite different than it is for some of us. My observations of your postings tell me you see the world from maybe upstate New York.

Like many radio people, I've lived all over the country. North, south, east, and west. Just never did time in the Northwest or mountain states. And no time in small towns.

Fast forward to today. Get out your atlas and focus on Toccoa, GA. Locate there a man by the name of Art Sutton. Try and explain to Art that stations cannot thrive and survive in small markets.

As I said, I don't know anything about small towns. He obviously does. If he can make it work, that's great. I can't make the math work.

 

[elchupacabras]

Docket 80-90 killed local service in hundreds of small markets. Most smaller market stations didn't have major debt, and were not part of consolidation. They were killed or wounded by the FCC's mistaken idea that more radio stations provide more programming diversity. Yeah, they force each station to pick a different satellite format...

Unfortunately. you are right.

 

[GlennSummers]

Even now as these people try to unload these stations they are faced with the unpleasant reality of selling them at current realistic market prices and taking the loss, or trying to at least get what they paid for them when the market was hot, which is mostly the case today. There are some going at market rates, you have to watch very carefully for them and be ready to pounce. And be prepared to go to a small market and become the new generation of Mom and Pop operators. Indeed, by doing so you may become the future of AM radio.

It's sad that some of the people who post on this site who have good ideas can't get together and put them to good use. While many bemoan the fate of AM, I, for one, believe that if you can get a small town station, be a little creative and provide solid programming and super serve the community without trying to be a clone of the big market, you may be, as Nostalgia says, the futre of the band.

 

[firepoint525]

WCMT, AM and FM, 1992.  That year, a local high school girls' basketball team went to the state tournament.  We simulcast the games over both AM and FM (good decision), but for some reason, we had separate spotsets on both the AM and the FM (in other words, the spotsets were NOT simulcast).  I have no idea how we chose which sponsors' spots were to be heard on which station, but separating the spotsets was a BIG mistake.  For the first game of the tourney, I board op'd the game from the AM studio while the morning guy did so from the production room for FM.  We later heard back from advertisers in that county who weren't even aware that we had an AM station!  (Never mind that it had been on the air for 35 years by that time!) Fortunately, the girls won that first game (and went on to win the state!).  For the subsequent games in the tourney, we simulcast everything, the game and the spotsets!  We learned our lesson!

 

[carolinaradio]

Even now as these people try to unload these stations they are faced with the unpleasant reality of selling them at current realistic market prices and taking the loss, or trying to at least get what they paid for them when the market was hot, which is mostly the case today. There are some going at market rates, you have to watch very carefully for them and be ready to pounce. And be prepared to go to a small market and become the new generation of Mom and Pop operators. Indeed, by doing so you may become the future of AM radio.

It's sad that some of the people who post on this site who have good ideas can't get together and put them to good use. While many bemoan the fate of AM, I, for one, believe that if you can get a small town station, be a little creative and provide solid programming and super serve the community without trying to be a clone of the big market, you may be, as Nostalgia says, the futre of the band.

I'm in a small town outside of the market I mentioned and we have an AM that is "mom and pop"....problem is, an engineer probably hasn't seen the place in 20 years. The feedback/"hum" in the audio makes the station un-listenable as it is almost as loud as the programming on the station.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

I'm in a small town outside of the market I mentioned and we have an AM that is "mom and pop"....problem is, an engineer probably hasn't seen the place in 20 years. The feedback/"hum" in the audio makes the station un-listenable as it is almost as loud as the programming on the station.

I'm sorry to hear that what could be a reasonable resource in your village is disappointing.

Are you prepared to argue on behalf of some change in NATIONAL policy.... based on one popcorn popper out of thousands that scorches the popcorn?

There is another station in your part of the world that we could introduce into this conversation just to keep the ground level. What about WBCU over in Union? (The conversation does get messed up a bit when you add into the information the fact that they now have an FM translator helping them along.) But here is an AM station that for a number of years has operated in such a way that it could be our "Poster Child" example of what an AM station CAN be, SOULD be.... in a small, local community.

 

[SirRoxalot]

The noises from a Genachowski-led FCC seem to indicate that there may be more translators, or LP FMs helping along more small market AMs before long.

 

[davideduardo]

The noises from a Genachowski-led FCC seem to indicate that there may be more translators, or LP FMs helping along more small market AMs before long.

LPFMs can not run commercials. Translators, if I read it right, can only be issued one to a licensee, and would only fill in some coverage, not replace it.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

The noises from a Genachowski-led FCC seem to indicate that there may be more translators, or LP FMs helping along more small market AMs before long.

If you are the licensee of any other station (AM, FM, whatever) you are disqualified from being a part of the not-for-profit organization that would operate an LPFM. Only a corporation that becomes approved by the Internal Revenue Service as a 501(c)3 tax-exempt organization is qualified to be the licensee of an LPFM.

I'm sure one of these days we will read about some guy who owns an AM station and his wife is chairman of the board of an organization operating an LPFM.... and the legal bills are going to be big.

 

[gr8oldies]

Used to happen all the time in the 7-7-7 days "my brother-in-law owns the other 7".

 

[TheBigA]

The noises from a Genachowski-led FCC seem to indicate that there may be more translators, or LP FMs helping along more small market AMs before long.

I'm not sure how more radio stations in a small market is "helping."

 

[elchupacabras]

The noises from a Genachowski-led FCC seem to indicate that there may be more translators, or LP FMs helping along more small market AMs before long.

I'm not sure how more radio stations in a small market is "helping."

Agree with you on that one!

 

[gr8oldies]

If they are all only going to be able to be hard drives run out of someone's spare bedroom, what's the point?