So You Want A Career In Radio Huh?

[Philip_Airtime]

You are so right Bob. I know you've made the argument before about the convenience of radio. Yes, there's something to be said about a technology that requires a simple touch of the "on" button. Some days, I just don't feel like loading the CD deck or firing up the computer and then waiting for a web page to load to listen to an Internet station or for my podcasts to download. Both take some semblance of work and time. This past week, I've found myself tuning into WNED-FM when sitting down with a good book and a glass of wine. And that gets to Bob's second point. You need good content. I was listening to Bill Raffel on Saturday morning. He's knowledgeable. He's conversational. I learned something about a music style that I'm not too familiar with. It was an enjoyable listening experience. That gives me hope about radio's future.

Then, this morning I was hit with something else. I was getting a blood test at a local Quest. The technician had WJJL on. WJJL?!?!?! She told me she likes '50s and '60s music, and there is nowhere else to get it. This woman is 50. She doesn't get her music from the Internet, and probably never will. I would assume she doesn't own an iPod. If she lives another 30 years, which is likely, she'll be listening to the radio. That's a long time! And as has been talked about on this board, there's a market for a well done oldies format. Now, because our industry is so focused on 18-49 and 25-54, we're told this listener doesn't matter. But I don't think she's alone. Radio in its present form will live on for another 20 to 30 years because there is a large portion of the population who grew up with it, are comfortable with it and will stay with it, despite what the corporate honchos have done through the years to dilute the product.

Please know I'm not saying that we shouldn't be paying attention to what's happening among younger people and the technology they're gravitating to. Radio will have to evolve if it's to continue when we're all dead and gone. Heck, I own an iPod, and I listen to a significant number of podcasts each week produced by CNN, public radio and even Slate magazine. But I still listen to the radio whether it's WGR's Bills coverage or an extremely well-done, intelligent presentation of "This American Life" like I heard this weekend on WBFO.

I really don't know where I'm going with this other than to say there's still time for radio execs to get it right. Radio isn't dead, and it's not necessarily dying.

 

[yugoidar]

Most of today's current crop of morning talent will get shown the door someday(with technology changing so rapidly, maybe sooner than they think). 

And occasionally (though very rarely), a talent is offered the opportunity to stay and do their show from home or from another geographic location altogether via ISDN instead having to be at the station.

 

[aaronread]

I got into radio via NPR, specifically a work-study job at WBUR when I was a student at Boston University. I leveraged that into various dot-com jobs at the end of the dot-com boom (thanks for the stock options, I was just getting low on toliet paper!) and then got more into the engineering side of things. That was the smart career move...while job opportunities in engineering have shrunk as well, there still tend to be more and they do tend to pay better. They don't pay well, but they pay better than most other radio positions (again, that's not saying much).

Still, the only future in radio I see is sports radio, talk radio (to a limited degree) and NPR. I tell all my students, ignore the politics and look for a job in public radio if you want anything with at least a whisper of job security, actual salary and benefits. It's still not a good business to get into, but it's loads better than commercial radio.

And for anyone trying to break in on the talent side, I tell them to forget about trying to get a job. It will not happen. Instead, you must create your own podcast, build an audience, and then try and sell THAT to a radio station. It's expensive, time-consuming, and will take no less than a year or two before you even have a hope of getting just one lousy affiliate...but it's the way most stations are deciding on how they pick up new talent. Why take a chance on someone unproven when there's podcasts out there with existing track records?

 

[Nick Seneca]

I’d like to add another angle to this discussion: taking personal responsibility for the management of one’s career.

Today, at age 55, after 37 years in radio (punctuated by periods of unemployment), I’m nowhere near where I envisioned myself being at this point in my career. My current part-time on-air job at a public radio station is a fun and satisfying gig, but it’s certainly not the big, prestigous job at the big station in a big market.

It would be very easy for me to blame radio’s roiling waters of change for my current situation, but I can look back and point to specific events in my professional life that I handled poorly. They include:

1) Making questionable choices for the wrong reasons. For example, I spent many years in a lightly populated area (Maine), simply because I liked the lifestyle. In retrospect, I wish I’d had better career focus, and climbed the ladder of better jobs in bigger cities.

2) Not recognizing and jumping at great opportunities offered me. For example, in the mid-80’s I was offered the position of Production Director at WTIC in Hartford when it was a huge full-service AM. The station was a state-of-the-art showplace, with the best of everything. I turned it down, and the guy who ultimately took the job stayed for at least 15 years. In the mid-90’s, I was offered a great full-time on-air job at WBOS in Boston, but turned it down because I wanted to move to California to be with a woman I’d met.

3) Not setting specific career goals and persevering in them. For a while, I wanted to be a PD at full-service AM’s. I had the position at 2 very good medium-market stations (WARM, Scranton and WDEL, Wilmington). I wasn’t a great manager and often felt overwhelmed in these jobs. In retrospect, I wished I’d toughed it out, learned to be a better manager, and pursued this very legitimate career goal. Instead, I chose to move back to Maine and dumped my management career. Gave up much too early.

I’ve made questionable moves on a whim. I resigned a well-paying on-air job middays at WIP in Philadelphia (when it was full-service, with music) because I didn’t like the new PD. More recently, I’ve left part-time jobs with some security and really good AFTRA wages simply because I got tired of doing the job or because of some perceived slight against me in the workplace. Looking back, these are not the moves of a level-headed, focused career radio person.

Gawd, this post sounds like a huge mea culpa, but I want to illustrate from personal experience that turbulence and upheaval in the field of radio aren’t the only reasons for career ups and downs. Personal responsibility for managing our careers is certainly a factor, too.

Fortunately, my voiceover career fills in the gaps when I don’t do enough radio. And despite the challenges and questionable choices, I certainly don’t regret staying with radio all these years.

As you guys know, it is a passion! My heart is always in radio, and even at this age, I’d still rather be on the air, write copy, and do production than do anything else.

I’m sure you’ve heard this before: “Even a bad day doing radio beats a good day doing something else!”


Nick Seneca

 

[Mike Sheridan]

Nick, don't beat yourself up over the choices you made. In radio there is no guarantee you roll the dice and take your chances.

Today there seems to be very little difference between small markets and big markets, It's the same groups and the same players. I left a station when I should have stayed. It was for a big 50KW in a bigger market in the next county, boy was that a huge mistake. Lots of research needs to be done when you make a move!

Talent is subjective, one PD can think you are the greatest thing that has ever hit the air, another can think you suck. You have to share the mindset of the PD. If you and they are going for two different things, that spells trouble.

To the guy that said it takes talent I just want to say the station has to let you do your thing. If all they allow is liners, weather, and PSA's there is no chance of making it. People who want to be personalities and still have something to say are told nobody is listening for you, they want to hear music. PD's have been saying this for the last 18 years.

The value added content isn't on any radio station I listen to anymore. No artist chatter, nothing about what's going on where I live, just stations saying go to our website....blah blah blah so they can assault me with more advertising.

One last thing I have never seen a radio station website that impressed me, most of them suck. Put something useful on it or give it up guys. There are better places to go on the web.

 

[alw]

If you've read all of this and still want to persue a radio career......you already posses the main quality, in my opinion, one needs to proceed.

Thick Elephantine Skin.

I remember two incidents that might have changed the course of my radio journey.

1) Jeff Kaye asked me the following question:
"why don't you find a real job.....maybe undertaking?"

2) My good friend, previous poster (N.S)., disclosed to me during one of our drunken nights at The Locker Room:
"there is a singular quality about your radio shows.....although I don't know if it's of broadcast quality....."

I heard, but didn't listen, and kept at it.
Made all my hidious mistakes in a major market, and found my groove.

And now, after 40 years, I'm a low-to-medium paid middle-manager in a large-medium market.

Is that not a true American inspiration?

 

[Mark Giardina]

Nick is right when it comes to radio, at least as far as I personally am concerned. It is a passion.

Not to brag but I make more money now than I ever did in radio. My job is just a 1/2 mile away from my house. I put in 35 hour work week plus I get a state pension and have three separate retirement accounts.

As for vacation; If I factor in holidays plus the regular time coming to me, it averages around 4 weeks a year. And in just two more years that will jump to over five weeks a year.

With all that said, there are days I do miss covering a news story, filling in for a talk show host, going on the air with election reports or just doing a regular newscast. I liked what I did and enjoyed the comradeship a news room brings.

I know my radio days are over for me. But at least I have some wonderful memories of doing something that I truly enjoyed. How many people can say they worked in a profession they truly loved?

 

[Mike Sheridan]

A word of caution, if you must work in radio make sure you have a backup plan!

I had a very hard time with just a high school education a smattering of college and my radio experience. If it were not for a friend of mine who had also been in radio I don't know where I would be. He had a call center for inbound 900 and 800 calls. I came on board as a computer/phone system tech. I also did some studio work for our phone programs and 900 opinion polls. My friend knew I had the skills to do the job. Others were not willing to take a chance and were actually afraid I would leave for another radio job.

Again, have a backup plan!

 

[mleach]

Still, the only future in radio I see is sports radio, talk radio (to a limited degree) and NPR. I tell all my students, ignore the politics and look for a job in public radio if you want anything with at least a whisper of job security, actual salary and benefits. It's still not a good business to get into, but it's loads better than commercial radio.

When I attended the Columbia School of Broadcasting ( the one in Washington DC ) back in 1987, that is exactly what the woman who was in charge of admissons told me...and at the time besides her job at Columbia she also had a part-time gig at Washington's then top 40 powerhouse..WAVA !!!!

I also remember her telling me to "forget all about what I had seen on WKRP in Cincinatti...1987 radio isn't like that at all" She also went on to tell me that if I decided to get into commercial radio I will encounter many many unhappy people, weird people, people you grew up listening to only to discover they are really a-holes, backstabbers, lots of liars and the fact that so many radio stations will do ANYTHING to save a few bucks" Not to mention she said there will be a day when most if not all stations reguardless of market size will be automated. Keep in mind this was in April 1987 !!!! Looking back now..boy was she right !!!

Unhappy people? Met so many radio folks over the years who allowed radio to take over their personal lives ( yeah I fell into that boat a few times myself ). So many divorces, so many friendships ended, so many family fights..over radio.

Weird People? Like the 7-Midnighter I worked with when I did overnights at a 50,000 country music station. When he received word that his show was going to be replaced by syndication not only did he destroyed his desk and the station copier but he cried like a baby too. Yeah..he was fired due to his actions. or that one guy in my hometown who was so desperate to get into radio. When a local long time jock died, this creep actually attended his funeral. Not to pay his respects to the deceased but rather hoping to "bump" into a few GMs and PDs who he thought would be attending that funeral. He even showed up with resumes and an aircheck in hand !!! I doubt he found a job there.

A-holes? In 1994 I took a job with this FM rock station. The sports guy there was an announcer who was a 40 year market vet. I remember listening to him when I was a kid !! Needless to say the first day I met him when I told him that I used to listen to him years back, his response? "so f*cking what !!" This vet was really a total..well a-hole !!.

Stations that will do anything to save bucks? LOL..within the last ten years I have seen stations that were way in the black, making lots of money to the point they actually had a waiting list for clients...yet they still voice-tracked, use syndication in many dayparts and those who had live shows were paid barely past mim. wage. People say that the current economy has put radio into a deep recession, actually radio has been in a recession for how long now? Has it always?

Backstabbers? One station I worked at had a full-time overnight position open. Despite the fact that the job only paid $13,000 a year ( this was in 1992 ), all the part-timers were bad mouthing each other to the PD, having their family members calling up the station saying "..my I really enjoy hearing Lisa on the air..she should be full-time !!". One PT even wrote a letter to the editor of the local paper under an assumed name..bragging about how great a jock he is..and that ( of course ) he should be full-time. Ah..none of those part-timers got that job.

Yes this woman from Columbia School of Broadcasting ( and WAVA ) pretty much nailed the future. Wonder what she is doing now? Too bad I don't remember her name.

 

[JustPastBuffalo]

Nick Seneca's post is some of the finest, honest, evaluative writing ever to appear on these boards. I read it with a sense of admiration as it revealed one man's journey through the business as well as life. Most of us who've spent any time in front of a microphone share similar thoughts, second guesses, analysis and doubts. If we don't what kind of people are we. While some people like Nick take chances and push themselves to experience different opportunies, others, like me, chose the safe route, staying close to home for a variety of reasons. What is it that Robert Frost once said about the road less traveled? Bravo, Nick. Well said. Well done.

And to the esteemed "alw" recalling the days of youth at The Locker Room Bar; rarely have I laughed as hard and as much. PS, "You're ten dB down!"

This is Inside Baseball stuff, maybe we'll explain in later posts.

JPB

 

[Remaster]

Very well thought out posts everyone.

I believe the playing field has been leveled like in the record biz. Right, records don't sell like they used to but there is still money to be made off music. The best speaker to the consumer always wins. The pie will never be as big as it once was, but an individual will have more control of that smaller piece than ever before. That is where we win.

 

[BJC]

Worst day in radio beats best day someplace else....the guy who said that was not HOME on christmas morning or looking for easter eggs with the kids or their birthdays or any of the GREAT weekends with the family instead of watching vu meters move back and fourth and oh yeah the MONEY........Sorry but it was not that I could not make it in radio, it was radio could not make it with me.

 

[Nick Seneca]

Nick, don't beat yourself up over the choices you made.

LOL - Thanks, Mike! I appreciate your concern. But I'm not beating myself up over it. I'm not self-judgmental about some of my choices over the years. I'm just looking dispassionately about some wrong turns taken.

For the record, I did also make a number of very good moves which brought me both professional satisfaction and a pretty good living at the time.

Certainly, like many posters, I've also been affected by consolidation, voicetracking, evaporation of available positions, and the general "de-valuation" of nuts and bolts air personalities who aren't Stern or Seacrest superstars.

Age is a factor, too. I'm not crying discrimination, but obviously, there are fewer formats where 50-somethings can legitimately perform. I wouldn't dream of sending my demo to an active rock or hot-AC station, and even if I did, they'd laugh me out of the joint!

I'm doing OK now, I just think I'd be a stronger radio survivor with more options if I'd been more focused and practiced better career management in earlier years.

I appreciate your comments and kind words, guys!

Nick Seneca

 

[Steven21]

Let's keep things in perspective:

If your worst day in radio seems as if it would be better than the best day someplace else, you are a delusional masochist. No offense.

Radio can be one of the most insulting businesses on earth. All because you have fun saying your name on the air or attending some promotional event or playing your favorite hits, does not make up for the downright awful behavior and treatment that many in the biz are subjected to.

Yes, radio can be a lot of fun----at times. Otherwise it represents a ticking timebomb career-wise for most in it.

That is not pleasurable, it's pathetic. And unlike many other businesses, you can expect competition from people who barely graduated high school and/or may be "on the lamb" from the law. Nothing would surprise me as far as the quality of people you run into. Depressing, isn't it?

Radio has it's redeeming qualities, but let's not make it out to be what it is not.

By the way, WKRP always represented to me a sad tale, certainly not anything inspirational.

 

[Mike Sheridan]

Wow, most of the stations I worked for had really great people. Some of the stations were a bit like WKRP. The funny thing is the smaller the station and market the bigger the egos.

I ran into an "oldtimer" before I got into radio. He was crusty like most and when I told him I wanted to get into radio he growled "forget it". I think of it as a friendly warning!

 

[JustPastBuffalo]

Another perspective on the "worst day in radio, best day anywhere else" discussion?

We're all adults (well, chronologically, at least) and we've all seen some serious spit hit the fan ove rthe years: fired, re-assigned, down-sized, out-sourced and tossed around like driftwood on a raging sea. Some of us have been re-hired, come back and even excelled. Some of us have rightfully selected alternate career paths that have been equally or more rewarding.

This is a very good thread because it embraces the reality of the business which is going through a very difficult time. It may not be that "a bad day in radio is better than a great day at home Depot," but radio in many cases beats vulcanizing conveyer belts in a 100+ degree factory, which is what I did for a few summers while in college. Perhaps it doesn't beat discovering the gene that causes breat cancer, but how many of us majored in biochemistry and physics in college? Show of hands? OK, two guys in the back. Bravo to you!

Understand, I'm not taking anybody to task for their critical comments, but offering one man's perspective. Thus far, the comments here have been a very truthful and realistic assessment of what people in this business face and endure. Certainly, working on Christmas day or being away from family on birthdays, anniversaries and holidays is an unsettling and sour experience. I too have been through some of that.

One year, while working a four hour show on Christmas day, I was grousing about being scheduled to work the holiday and holy day. "Full timers should have the day off!" Then a few things hit me: A friend of mine was serving in Viet Nam in the Mekong delt while the war was raging. A distant relative about ten years older than me was in a hospital, being treated for cancer. She survived. Reality check.

I'm not sure what or why it is, but these "centering moments" may be why some people use the "worst day in radio vs. best day anywhere else" analogy. Clearly, I don't begrudge anybody else's more critical perspective on this matter. This is a tough, mean-street business, and as Frank Sinatra sang, you can be "riding high in April and shot down in May." That's life.

The reality is, many of us we're drawn to the business because we thought we had something to say, something to play, something to contribute and yes, because we had ten ton egos when we were 19. At that time, we wanted to get on the radio and say our name and for everybody to know us and tell us how great we were. As we've matured, we understand that "the world doesn't revolve around me" and that there are ways to contribute to our communities; that being known to some extent, might help us open doors on food drives, relief work and service to others, but it's not the be-all and end-all. In fact, it's a good thing it's radio because it's sometimes emabarassing to be recognized. It's fair to say that many of us have assessed our talents and know what we do well and what we could do better.

Yes, there are some world class a$$holes in the business, maybe fewer now than while we were coming up. It may be that we learned "how not to act" by being around people who behaved like children or self-indulgent sociopaths. On the other hand, there have been some world class human beings and professionals who have mentored us and assisted us along the way. Hopefully, some of us have "payed it forward" and positively influenced those who came after us.

We're not doctors, lawyers, research scientists or great authors. It's not likely we'll discover the cure for cancer... neither will the guy who can throw a 93 mile an hour fastball.

But it may be that we know a thing or two about computers, public relations, human relationships and we'll help raise the awareness of important matters in our community and the world by what we do, what we say and how well we say it on the radio or in a commercial or a website we design, a storm we help people endure or a post on our blog. These may be talents and gifts that some doctors, pro-athletes and research scientist do not posess. So in some way, as radio-communication professionals, we help contribute to the well-being of our community and positively touch the life or lives of those who hear and know us.

-JPB

 

[SirRoxalot]

Beating the Odds?

Nobody I know every got into radio without knowing the odds - and believing that they would beat them. Some of us were right, some of us were wrong. As JPB says, we thought that we had something to say that deserved a wider audience. As time went on, I found that the audience had a lot to teach me.

It ain't pretty. It comes with a cost. It's not just a job, it's an adventure - and there ain't no bullets comin' at ya.

 

[radionut925]

Another perspective on the "worst day in radio, best day anywhere else" discussion?

We're all adults (well, chronologically, at least) and we've all seen some serious spit hit the fan ove rthe years: fired, re-assigned, down-sized, out-sourced and tossed around like driftwood on a raging sea. Some of us have been re-hired, come back and even excelled. Some of us have rightfully selected alternate career paths that have been equally or more rewarding.

This is a very good thread because it embraces the reality of the business which is going through a very difficult time. It may not be that "a bad day in radio is better than a great day at home Depot," but radio in many cases beats vulcanizing conveyer belts in a 100+ degree factory, which is what I did for a few summers while in college. Perhaps it doesn't beat discovering the gene that causes breat cancer, but how many of us majored in biochemistry and physics in college? Show of hands? OK, two guys in the back. Bravo to you!

Understand, I'm not taking anybody to task for their critical comments, but offering one man's perspective. Thus far, the comments here have been a very truthful and realistic assessment of what people in this business face and endure. Certainly, working on Christmas day or being away from family on birthdays, anniversaries and holidays is an unsettling and sour experience. I too have been through some of that.

One year, while working a four hour show on Christmas day, I was grousing about being scheduled to work the holiday and holy day. "Full timers should have the day off!" Then a few things hit me: A friend of mine was serving in Viet Nam in the Mekong delt while the war was raging. A distant relative about ten years older than me was in a hospital, being treated for cancer. She survived. Reality check.

I'm not sure what or why it is, but these "centering moments" may be why some people use the "worst day in radio vs. best day anywhere else" analogy. Clearly, I don't begrudge anybody else's more critical perspective on this matter. This is a tough, mean-street business, and as Frank Sinatra sang, you can be "riding high in April and shot down in May." That's life.

The reality is, many of us we're drawn to the business because we thought we had something to say, something to play, something to contribute and yes, because we had ten ton egos when we were 19. At that time, we wanted to get on the radio and say our name and for everybody to know us and tell us how great we were. As we've matured, we understand that "the world doesn't revolve around me" and that there are ways to contribute to our communities; that being known to some extent, might help us open doors on food drives, relief work and service to others, but it's not the be-all and end-all. In fact, it's a good thing it's radio because it's sometimes emabarassing to be recognized. It's fair to say that many of us have assessed our talents and know what we do well and what we could do better.

Yes, there are some world class a$$holes in the business, maybe fewer now than while we were coming up. It may be that we learned "how not to act" by being around people who behaved like children or self-indulgent sociopaths. On the other hand, there have been some world class human beings and professionals who have mentored us and assisted us along the way. Hopefully, some of us have "payed it forward" and positively influenced those who came after us.

We're not doctors, lawyers, research scientists or great authors. It's not likely we'll discover the cure for cancer... neither will the guy who can throw a 93 mile an hour fastball.

But it may be that we know a thing or two about computers, public relations, human relationships and we'll help raise the awareness of important matters in our community and the world by what we do, what we say and how well we say it on the radio or in a commercial or a website we design, a storm we help people endure or a post on our blog. These may be talents and gifts that some doctors, pro-athletes and research scientist do not posess. So in some way, as radio-communication professionals, we help contribute to the well-being of our community and positively touch the life or lives of those who hear and know us.

-JPB

Well said.

 

[cee]

She also went on to tell me that if I decided to get into commercial radio I will encounter many many unhappy people, weird people, people you grew up listening to only to discover they are really a-holes, backstabbers, lots of liars and the fact that so many radio stations will do ANYTHING to save a few bucks" Not to mention she said there will be a day when most if not all stations reguardless of market size will be automated. Keep in mind this was in April 1987 !!!! Looking back now..boy was she right !!!

Who knows -- this women's candor may have scared away many school applicants. What an excellent summation of what to expect in radio. A-holes, Backstabbers and Liars - sounds like a good song title for a Weird Al Yankovic radio parody of Gypsies, Tramps and Thieves. Unhappy and weird - oh yeah!! I would add this applies to probably all other areas in the creative/performing arts field. A fair amount of desperation. Everybody goes in a raw rookie and looking at the world through rose colored glasses - you think you'll pay your dues for awhile and then ease into a primo gig and get married to a beautiful women and have that home in the suburbs and the 2 point 5 kids who never give you any trouble and voila, shangri la is yours. Maybe some people can't deal with reality when it stares them in the face. We've all met our share of weird people. Who knows, one of the radio weirdos you're thinking of right now might be me

Radio can be one of the most insulting businesses on earth. All because you have fun saying your name on the air or attending some promotional event or playing your favorite hits, does not make up for the downright awful behavior and treatment that many in the biz are subjected to.

Yes, radio can be a lot of fun----at times. Otherwise it represents a ticking timebomb career-wise for most in it.

Another excellent summation. Yes, radio is fun and I had some good times(I'm sure we all did), but I was subjected to some pretty harsh behavior. You think when you're in your early days, you should just put up with it, keep working harder and respect will come in time. No matter what experience level I was at and no matter what I could provide my employer, it was never enough. Then eventually you're looking back at all this and thinking "why did I put up with all this?" Well, hindsight is 20/20. Foresight is driving on the thruway in a blizzard.

The funny thing is the smaller the station and market the bigger the egos.

Yeah, I've always wondered about that. And it's usually in the crappiest of smaller stations. The Les Nesman big fish/small pond thing. Trying to compensate for not being successful?

 

[yugoidar]

"...radio isn't like that at all" She also went on to tell me that if I decided to get into commercial radio I will encounter many many unhappy people, weird people, people you grew up listening to only to discover they are really a-holes, backstabbers, lots of liars and the fact that so many radio stations will do ANYTHING to save a few bucks".

Whenever I see things like this I'm reminded of the Hunter S. Thompson quote:

"The music business (my words: and radio, too) is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side".