Soft Rock (AC) vs Variety Hits vs Classic Hits

[davideduardo]

I don't buy the notion that a 'soft-AC' station (targeted at an older audience) will fail out of the box. It is quite possible that it would do well here - give it a try and tweak it.

Atlanta is such a young market, and it waaaaay inder-indexes on percentages of the population in 55-64 and 65+. That makes it hard to get the boxcar numbers needed to sell a format most advertisers are not really attracted to.

Again, I'll repeat the story of WDUV in Tampa with its soft AC format. For a decade and a half, it was a solid, far-away #1. But most of the listeners were 65+. So they averaged about 15th in market billings, dead last for a relatively full FM signal.

They freshened up the format after the Miami experience of sister WFEZ and lost a lot of the geezers, but gained 35-54. They are now in the top 10 stations in sales, and growing.

 

[CTListener]

Actually, Miami has a relatively small percentage of retirees today... about 14% over 65. Buffalo, NY and Bangor, ME have higher percentages.

On the other hand, Atlanta has a low percentage. It's less than 8%, and less than the national average of 12.4% 65 and older.

Cool website for those who like to see this kind of statistic: http://www.census-charts.com/Metropolitan/AgeSex.html

And a large percentage of Miami seniors are from the first waves of Cuban refugee migrations during the 60's and early 70's. They are not going to be big users of English language soft AC.

What are those seniors listening to? Is there advertiser support for softer Latino music formats despite the geezer factor that there isn't for softer formats that play English language music? Or do the older Cuban-Americans continue to listen to younger-skewing music?

 

[davideduardo]

What are those seniors listening to? Is there advertiser support for softer Latino music formats despite the geezer factor that there isn't for softer formats that play English language music? Or do the older Cuban-Americans continue to listen to younger-skewing music?

The music listeners tend to listen to the oldies / classic hits station which plays 70's through 90's (WCMQ), and the AC station (WAMR) which targets 35-64 and is the top biller in the market for more than a decade

 

[jabba17]

That doesn't mean they'll choose soft AC.

This isn't bout music or format holes. It's about attracting an audience that advertisers want to reach. That's what the game is all about. There are lots of older skewing radio stations in Atlanta now. Not all of them play music. But there's no need to fill that hole, because the audience is already being reached in other formats. (my emphasis)

Instead of talking about music, talk about money and advertising, because THAT is how this decision will be made.

So do you think every last listener (or at least all of the most profitable ones) is being fully served, listening to terrestrial radio at every listening opportunity, and aren't open to an alternative that might make them listen more (or at least not to your competitor)? I don't think that's true with any market, not just radio.

One time Coke had an annual report that showed a bunch of empty Coke bottles, and one full one. The point of the picture was to show that Coke products only represented a sliver of people's current beverage consumption, and there was a lot of room to grow. Not just from taking sales from Pepsi, but also encouraging people to drink more Coke when they were thirsty, and coming out with new products that met other drinking occasion needs. It's not an "either-or" question, but a "yes and" question.

I find it impossible to believe that the management of Atlanta radio stations have hit on the formula that maximizes profit, and that there's no more cash left on the table.

 

[davideduardo]

I find it impossible to believe that the management of Atlanta radio stations have hit on the formula that maximizes profit, and that there's no more cash left on the table.

I don't think there is much, if any, cash left on the table in any US radio market.

Advertisers using agencies pick the station or stations best targeted to their product or service. They do that from the array of existing stations with no thought as to "what format is missing?"

Direct accounts have to decide whether to use radio, TV, print, direct mail, or the neighborhood shopper or geographically targeted cable. If they use radio, they are swayed by the arguments of the sellers from local radio stations as well as past experience with the medium. They don't sit around the office of their store or dealership or restaurant thinking "I'd use radio if only there were a station that..."

There is no "if we build it they will come" potential in putting on a soft AC format.

 

[TheBigA]

So do you think every last listener (or at least all of the most profitable ones) is being fully served, listening to terrestrial radio at every listening opportunity, and aren't open to an alternative that might make them listen more (or at least not to your competitor)?

No, and I also don't think that is the goal. Some of that is why Congress created public radio, to provide some options that aren't subject to commercial or advertiser pressures. In addition, we now have very good options available to satellite subscribers. But in both of those cases, the funding comes mainly from the users, whose support has a lot to do with the programming, rather than relying on advertiser agendas.

Having said that, formats are hopefully always in a state of flux. Songs are being added and removed. Formats get fine-tuned based on ratings and research. Certainly when revenues start to drop, management will be open to alternatives that might improve profitability. But the focus is on improving revenues, not subjective musical decisions.

 

[Lotologist492]

That doesn't mean they'll choose soft AC.

This isn't bout music or format holes. It's about attracting an audience that advertisers want to reach. That's what the game is all about. There are lots of older skewing radio stations in Atlanta now. Not all of them play music. But there's no need to fill that hole, because the audience is already being reached in other formats.

Instead of talking about music, talk about money and advertising, because THAT is how this decision will be made.

As this is a thread about music (Soft AC as a format), that is what I intend to discuss here. There are other threads about revenue and advertising.

To get this thread back on track as to the definition of Soft AC, I do not believe it necessarily skews to an older audience at all. In fact the syndicated Delilah show - featured on AC stations - receives lots of on-air dedications of songs. It seems most of these music dedications are made by newlyweds, boyfriends/girlfriends, and folks just getting started out in life but have hit a roadblock or two...all well down into the 25-49 demographic. These 'love songs' are a staple on Delilah and have always been in heavy rotation in the soft AC format.

I guess that is why it is so difficult to understand why the Atlanta radio market is so devoid of a category of music which by no means skews older. "Love songs" transcend most age groups.

On the other hand, classic hits / variety hits does skew older. Given the demo battles occurring in this market, it would seem far more likely to see the rise of a Soft AC versus a classic hit format. But then again, it all comes down to 'where to put it.'

 

[davideduardo]

I guess that is why it is so difficult to understand why the Atlanta radio market is so devoid of a category of music which by no means skews older. "Love songs" transcend most age groups.

In every market where some form of softer AC has been done recently... whether it is Miami or San Diego or San Francisco or anywhere in between, it skews old. If the more mainstream AC is too busy defending 25-44, then there is enough 35-54 for a softer AC to do well, even if half or more of its audience is over 55.

Delilah is a poor example. The show does well in diary markets because it is a benchmark based on the talk content, the stories. The PMM devastated the show in the larger markets, because that form of measurement is not at all dependent on memory and form of benchmarking. And remember that Delilah is done in a system like voice tracking and is offered with several music temp variants to fit different types of AC stations.

The classic soft AC has been WDUV in Tampa, a market with three times the over-65 population percentage of Atlanta. They had been #1 and by a big margin for a decade and a half, but there was almost no under-55 listening. They were 15th in that demo, and 15th in billings, too. They brightened up the format, gradually purged the slow, dreamy stuff and them moved into the top 10 in 25-54 and are growing in revenue... but they lost some of the 55+ folks in the process so they don't have the dominance there they used to have. Sales is the motivator here, removing the older, softer stuff made a big difference.

 

[jabba17]

Delilah is a poor example. The show does well in diary markets because it is a benchmark based on the talk content, the stories. The PMM devastated the show in the larger markets, because that form of measurement is not at all dependent on memory and form of benchmarking. And remember that Delilah is done in a system like voice tracking and is offered with several music temp variants to fit different types of AC stations.

Is this why larger (PPM) markets shy away from canned programming generally?

The classic soft AC has been WDUV in Tampa, a market with three times the over-65 population percentage of Atlanta. They had been #1 and by a big margin for a decade and a half, but there was almost no under-55 listening.

Wasn't WDUV one of the last BM/EZ holdouts? When did they change? WMUU also dumped BM/EZ when Bob Jones U sold it to Salem in 2013, who turned it into a political talker. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WGTK-FM

Since Peach was the last BM/EZ holdout in ATL (playing BM/EZ in some dayparts as late as 1985-1986), B98.5 got a lot of traction well after Peach went AC by referring to their competition as "sleepy elevator music" and showing a radio with zzz's and peaches coming out of the speaker.

 

[TheBigA]

As this is a thread about music (Soft AC as a format), that is what I intend to discuss here. There are other threads about revenue and advertising.

If you prefer to focus on music, then I'd suggest starting with formats that don't target boomers. No one I know in programming stays up late at night wondering how to attract more 55+ to their radio stations. They're all trying to attract millennials or Gen X. If you can come up with a format that will get your kids to listen to the radio, let me know. Otherwise, Soft AC and Classic Hits are not something I think much about.

I'll say that if I was Cumulus, and I was looking at an older format for WYAY, my first choice would be Nash Icon (which they're currently offering on an HD2 channel). Why? Because it mixes enough new music to make it relevant. If I'm forced to think about Soft AC, my first inclination is to try to mix in currents, and also broaden the format beyond traditional AC. Once again, I'm not motivated to want to mollify over 55s. If anything, I want then to change the station.

 

[vchimpanzee]

The only Yes song you hear anymore is "Owner of a Lonely Heart". I did hear "All Good People" ONCE and it was so surprising to hear that--and it was the single cut, not the longer album cut.

What happened to "Roundabout"? Even I think that's a good song.

 

[vchimpanzee]

Wasn't WDUV one of the last BM/EZ holdouts? When did they change? WMUU also dumped BM/EZ when Bob Jones U sold it to Salem in 2013, who turned it into a political talker. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WGTK-FM

Since Peach was the last BM/EZ holdout in ATL (playing BM/EZ in some dayparts as late as 1985-1986), B98.5 got a lot of traction well after Peach went AC by referring to their competition as "sleepy elevator music" and showing a radio with zzz's and peaches coming out of the speaker.

Just to clarify, there is little similarity between WMUU and WDUV. My guess is that a former BM/EZ that went AC is nothing like WMUU. which leaned classical (and sleepy it wasn't!), and when it did play something more pop, it sounded more like these stations did in the 60s, not the 80s. Plus WMUU devoted a lot of its schedule to "sacred" music, which BBN also does but you're hard-pressed to find on Christian radio these days.

I was disappointed to find out when I wanted to listen to Christmas music that WMUU dropped their online station. I'm surprised I hadn't heard.

The Greenville SC market does still have WHLC, a BM/EZ with more of an AC/standards sound, but it covers only part of the market and a low-power FM on the same frequency keeps it from being heard in Greenville itself.

 

[vchimpanzee]

not one but TWO in Raleigh/Durham NC

I know WRAL "Mix" is AC but I'm not aware of another one in Raleigh/Durham.

The soft station in Raleigh is actually oldies WPTK.

 

[davideduardo]

Is this why larger (PPM) markets shy away from canned programming generally?

That is one reason, the other being not wanting to give away inventory.

Wasn't WDUV one of the last BM/EZ holdouts? When did they change?

It gradually morphed from Easy Listening (which was just another name for Soft, gold based AC) to its current more contemporary AC over the last decade. The final changes came when they saw how badly the initial launch of WFEZ in Miami did and the subsequent major improvement when the format was made more contemporary; after that they decided to push ahead faster at WDUV as sales were quite poor.

 

[RoddyFreeman]

That is one reason, the other being not wanting to give away inventory.



It gradually morphed from Easy Listening (which was just another name for Soft, gold based AC) to its current more contemporary AC over the last decade. The final changes came when they saw how badly the initial launch of WFEZ in Miami did and the subsequent major improvement when the format was made more contemporary; after that they decided to push ahead faster at WDUV as sales were quite poor.

Did that have any effect on WWRM?

 

[semoochie]

That is one reason, the other being not wanting to give away inventory.



It gradually morphed from Easy Listening (which was just another name for Soft, gold based AC) to its current more contemporary AC over the last decade. The final changes came when they saw how badly the initial launch of WFEZ in Miami did and the subsequent major improvement when the format was made more contemporary; after that they decided to push ahead faster at WDUV as sales were quite poor.

It's my understanding that Easy Listening was a stopgap measure for Beautiful Music stations to try and bring in younger listeners by increasing the tempo on what would still be instrumental based music and limiting the playlist to recent material instead of lush string versions of everything after 1890 or so. I realize that Billboard magazine used to label what is now their AC chart that way but I don't believe the practice was industry wide.

 

[davideduardo]

It's my understanding that Easy Listening was a stopgap measure for Beautiful Music stations to try and bring in younger listeners by increasing the tempo on what would still be instrumental based music and limiting the playlist to recent material instead of lush string versions of everything after 1890 or so. I realize that Billboard magazine used to label what is now their AC chart that way but I don't believe the practice was industry wide.

Easy Listening was a rather broad term. Some Beautiful Music stations used the term, and others used it as they transitioned to the AC format of the day.

AC, when it began to be called that in the 70's, was either "chicken rock" on the pop side or the direct descendant of MOR. Easy Listening was often the later version of old line MOR stations, not Beautiful Music stations.

The conversion of Beautiful Music to AC by some, but not all, was generally to full AC in the 80's model of the format. A good example would be WDVR / WBEB in Philadelphia which did a morph from Beautiful to AC when Beautiful died.

 

[TheBigA]

The conversion of Beautiful Music to AC by some, but not all, was generally to full AC in the 80's model of the format. A good example would be WDVR / WBEB in Philadelphia which did a morph from Beautiful to AC when Beautiful died.

Or Bonneville's WRFM in NYC, which became WNSR (New York's Soft Rock) in 1986. It's now Power 105.

 

[Lotologist492]

Since Peach was the last BM/EZ holdout in ATL (playing BM/EZ in some dayparts as late as 1985-1986), B98.5 got a lot of traction well after Peach went AC by referring to their competition as "sleepy elevator music" and showing a radio with zzz's and peaches coming out of the speaker.

OMG I remember that! I do remember "Peach" played 'beautiful music' tracks interspersed with soft AC as late as 1990. I remember hearing Jazz/new age on Peach as well. Patrick O'hearn comes to mind. By 1991 all those tracks were purged and it was a true soft AC then, just in time to become the affiliate of the Atlanta Braves for two seasons!

 

[Lotologist492]

I'll say that if I was Cumulus, and I was looking at an older format for WYAY, my first choice would be Nash Icon (which they're currently offering on an HD2 channel). Why? Because it mixes enough new music to make it relevant. If I'm forced to think about Soft AC, my first inclination is to try to mix in currents, and also broaden the format beyond traditional AC.

I guess what I am trying to zero in on here is why today's AC stations - which lean HOT by popular definition - don't mix in love songs which are in fact popular with millenials and gen-Xers. I'm not saying mix in classic hits or a bunch of 70's/80's stuff, but at least turn down the heat with a few more love songs on the play list and I think that would define soft-AC, at least by today's standards.

Maybe 'cloud company' should consider a soft(er) AC format for it's translator again. We will never know how the 'warm' format would have performed because it was only used during a Christmas stunt and ended up being a decoy for 99X.