Some WNC radio thoughts

[rockthisworld]

I just got back from a vacation in Asheville and the mountains... some observations:

- Star 104.3 has to be the most boring excuse for a Hot AC I've ever heard. Seriously. Killer signal in the part of Asheville I was staying in (between Asheville & Swannanoa, Tunnel Rd) but awful format.

- 106.9 WMIT was enjoyable to listen to, and a nice departure from the format the Christian translators and such put out.

- Even though it has a ...shady... to say the least... past, WOXL 96.5 was probably the station I listened to most in the area. It was a great format (not really oldies, not really classic rock). The imaging and DJ's were square on for the music - the whole station just fit together really well.

Interestingly enough, 96.5 is the only station I was able to hear everywhere around the city that I went without much static.

- WNCW! I already miss it!!!!!

- I think I finally understand the concept of multipathing. Living in flat terrain with no tall buildings it's never really been something I heard, but many times I had strange sounding static on a station, no RDS or stereo, but it seemed strong.

- Almost EVERYONE seemed to be using RDS. That's how it should be!

and some questions:

- Where is 99.9 reliably audible? I had issues picking it up almost everywhere, which I guess is due to the mountainous terrain...but they could use a translator or two.

- Is 104.9 supposed to be an Asheville signal?



I think the most intriguing thing is how the valleys and mountains affect reception of everything. I was on the parkway listening to some song on 98.7, then I began passing over a valley to the east and suddenly I lost that and Simon 98.7 began coming in as if I was sitting under the tower, RDS changing and all. It was also intriguing that you can have a flamethrower like 106.9 audible in one place, and go half a mile and you lose it totally. Just strange stuff.

A couple side notes for those familiar with or in the area... the unpaved stretch of NC197 between Barnardsville and Pensacola is some spooky sh!t. I started down it expecting it to be like a trail I had gone on (between Craggy Gardens and Dillingham, damn thing was gated shut at the bottom) but I soon turned around and came on back out. If I had someone with me and a gun it would have been a little easier I'm sure
A radio related side note on that Craggy Gardens trail - the only station I could pick up reliably was WIMZ Knoxville. No other Knoxville stations, just that one...and extremely clear.

Cell phones! Wow! Looking over a valley I had a -70dbm digital signal and couldn't use it! I know it's because of the timing aspect of CDMA but it was still bizarre. One more reason I'm glad I still have a mid-90s era analog car phone mounted and activated.<P ID="signature">______________

Eastern NC & Raleigh/Greensboro Board Moderator</P>

 

[eacalhoun]

First, RTW glad to have you visiting the WNC mountains!!

I guess us home folks don't think much of some of the reception issues you referenced as we are accustomed to multipath. I will say that, in my opinion, that FM reception gets much worse as you head west and southwest toward the TN line and toward Murphy. Moutain radio (FM) reception seems much better in the higher terrain(Northern Mountains) toward Avery and Watauga counties, where you're mainly "on top" of the mountains, whereas you're "deep within" the mountains around Asheville and westward.
To more specifically address one of your questions, yes 104.9 is an Asheville station-yet licensed to Waynesville where the tower is located. I was in A'Ville last week and sampled Star 104.3. I prefer Hot AC over Classic Rock, so I like the format, but maybe its delivery could be better. But with the Classic Rock now only on one frequency('twas previously simulcast on 104.3), I don't see how the format can survive in Asheville--esp north. The 104.9 signal quickly fades toward Woodfin and Leciester--Asheville's northern suburbs. Thus, I doubt the signal penetrates the downtown office buildings.

 

[rockthisworld]

> First, RTW glad to have you visiting the WNC mountains!!

Thanks! It really is God's Country... so beautiful. I was only there Thurs PM - early Sun AM (left my hotel at 5:45am) so I didn't get to do all I wanted. There is so much to explore and so little time. This time I was alone on my trip (just needed a quick getaway to relax) but my father and I are planning on going up there together sometime in August. For the nice vacation it is, it can be done very, very cheap!

I stayed mostly in Asheville and northward on the parkway, though to avoid the closed sections I went up through Burnsville and Spruce Pine. The "Three Mile Highway" was the longest three miles I've ever driven!!

As for the 104's though, I assume 104.3 is weak in western Asheville as 104.9 is in eastern? I love Hot AC myself, but I just think that Star's format could have been done so, so much better. Maybe even an Adult CHR. B93.7 doesn't come in all the time, and the Link is mostly talk now (and all 70s this weekend).

One thing I did notice is that some stations had strange formats being put out over RDS. B93.7 classified itself as Rock and Magic 98.9 as Classic Rock.


I have one other question for the locals: is the public allowed up on Grandmother Mountain where the WUNE/Linville tower is located? I was going to go up there and perused some trails trying to find it but never did make it. I've seen now on a map the roads that take you up there, but I learned the hard way that roads can be gated at odd places.<P ID="signature">______________

Eastern NC & Raleigh/Greensboro Board Moderator</P>

 

[thebroker]

I'm glad to hear you enjoyed your trip...let me know when you are in town next time, and lunch is on me!

I REALLY hope 104.3 will 'hotten' it's format, because it really isn't going to get a lot of cume this way. I'd much rather listen to Magic 98.9's Asheville translator. The signal is good all over town, even West, now that the tower is in Fletcher. I can hear it in the car at home, and I'm WAY west.

Billy Graham and Company do a good job with WMIT...you should see the studios!

I enjoy 96.5 a lot. Of course, I am an oldies nut. WOXL is a Class C3, so it has a great signal.

99.9 isn't truly 'audible' anywhere actually...it has multipath issues all over the market. Of course, it booms in Spartanburg after things flatten out.


You never know when you are gonna find a gate...and you do occasionally feel like you just stepped into "Deliverance". Next time you are here, you should drive out to Cataloochee Valley where they have the Elk restoration project. It's an easy drive, and well worth it!

 

[rockthisworld]

> I'm glad to hear you enjoyed your trip...let me know when
> you are in town next time, and lunch is on me!
>
> I REALLY hope 104.3 will 'hotten' it's format, because it
> really isn't going to get a lot of cume this way. I'd much
> rather listen to Magic 98.9's Asheville translator. The
> signal is good all over town, even West, now that the tower
> is in Fletcher. I can hear it in the car at home, and I'm
> WAY west.
>
> Billy Graham and Company do a good job with WMIT...you
> should see the studios!
>
> I enjoy 96.5 a lot. Of course, I am an oldies nut. WOXL is a
> Class C3, so it has a great signal.
>
> 99.9 isn't truly 'audible' anywhere actually...it has
> multipath issues all over the market. Of course, it booms in
> Spartanburg after things flatten out.
>
>
> You never know when you are gonna find a gate...and you do
> occasionally feel like you just stepped into "Deliverance".
> Next time you are here, you should drive out to Cataloochee
> Valley where they have the Elk restoration project. It's an
> easy drive, and well worth it!

The whole "Deliverance" thing is what kept me from continuing on down 197 through the forest. Even the car phone wouldn't pick up, and I'm a paranoid freak from the city

I've already started a list of places to go next time. Driving to the top of Grandmother Mtn (provided there aren't any gates) is one of the things. I just want to see one of these mountaintop transmitters in person. I also tried to figure out how to get to the top of Clingman's Peak but to no avail. Maybe next time now that I've seen a map.

If you can't tell, I love offroading -- and the mountain trails are a big departure from the swamplands I'm used to driving!

I do have a question (or two, three, four, things keep coming to me...): with all of the signal issues that plague 99.9, how do they stay so highly rated? Lack of an alternative? I heard them playing in the lobby of the hotel I stayed at, so I'm wondering if the only problems getting them are in vehicles. My other question is... how does OTA reception of WUNF and WLOS fair? I had cable in the hotel and didn't have a way to test it, but even on cable WUNF looked kinda grainy.
And who's AM array is off 19/23 just past the UNC-A exit?

One last observation, Asheville is definately an under-radioed city...<P ID="signature">______________

Eastern NC & Raleigh/Greensboro Board Moderator</P>

 

[thebroker]

The Mount Pisgah TX site, home of WKSF, WUNC, WLOS, and several others, is a good one to visit. It's a good drive, then a pretty easy walk. Another good site to visit, although it's quite a hike, is Mount Mitchell, where WMIT transmits from.

99.9 has been our only real FM signal. Until 96.5 came along, WKSF was the ONLY Asheville FM, outside of WMIT. The first book when 96.5 was oldies, they ate WKSF's lunch, but then CC did one of those million-dollar giveaways, back before they got in trouble for failing to announce that it was a national contest. Problem solved.

Even growing up, I remember that EVERYONE lisened to "Kiss"...that's just the way it was. And, you hit the nail on the head when you said this is an under-radioed market. Since not everyone likes oldies, WKSF is the only real 12+ audience station out there on the FM side. I still say 104.3 should be CHR or a REAL Hot AC. Maybe then they'd give Kiss a run for their money. But, what's the incentive? CC owns both, and won't steal market-share from themselves.

OTA reception for both WUNF and WLOS are awful. You think multipathing is an issue with FM...just try TV! I can't get either at home, since I'm in the shadow of the TX site. Each station has about 50 translators, and reception is decent with those if you are within a mile or so of the stick. But, forget clear reception off the air anywhere in the mountains.

The array off 19-23 is Big WISE 1310. The studio is just underneath, as is the studios for WOXL A/F. You can't see it when the leaves are on the trees, but on the top of the building, there's an STL dish which points right to Signal Mountain, where WOXL-FM broadcasts from.

Did you happen to notice the four-tower array right off I-40 in Black Mountain? That's 1010 WFGW, the sister of WMIT. They have perfectly manacured grass and white picket fences around the towers...

 

[wncmacs]

> I have one other question for the locals: is the public
> allowed up on Grandmother Mountain where the WUNE/Linville
> tower is located? I was going to go up there and perused
> some trails trying to find it but never did make it. I've
> seen now on a map the roads that take you up there, but I
> learned the hard way that roads can be gated at odd places.

Scott,

The road (Beacon Heights) to WUNE is a gravel road accessed off of US 221 heading towards Blowing Rock. To get to it, get off the Parkway at the 221 intersection at Grandfather Mountain, head towards Blowing Rock (go under the Parkway) and then turn right on the dirt road that is just past the Parkway. WUNE is about 2 miles out the road. There is a gate near the main entrance to the site, but you can walk in from the gate and look around (occasionally the gate is open and you can drive in). Obviously, things are locked up tight out at the building and the tower, but what a view of the Catawba valley and Hickory! There is the tower and transmitter building out there. UNC used to have engineers out on the mountain to run things (channel 17 here was the control point for the entire western part of the state - they operated WUNF in Asheville and took care of the translators out there), but I'm not sure that it isn't remote-controlled from Charlotte now. NWS NOAA Weather Radio is up there now on 162.450 Mhz., along with a slew of two-way communication services).

WUNE is licensed to Linville, but it's service area really is Hickory and Statesville. I live less than 10 air miles from the antenna (and can see its beacon on especially clear evenings) but I can't get much of an over-air signal. UNC has a translator for our area, but it has only been on the air since the late 1980s.

I always thought this would be a great location for an FM wanting to reach into the upper sections of the Charlotte metro. They would have a killer signal in that direction.

 

[rockthisworld]

> Scott,
>
> The road (Beacon Heights) to WUNE is a gravel road accessed
> off of US 221 heading towards Blowing Rock. To get to it,
> get off the Parkway at the 221 intersection at Grandfather
> Mountain, head towards Blowing Rock (go under the Parkway)
> and then turn right on the dirt road that is just past the
> Parkway. WUNE is about 2 miles out the road. There is a gate
> near the main entrance to the site, but you can walk in from
> the gate and look around (occasionally the gate is open and
> you can drive in). Obviously, things are locked up tight out
> at the building and the tower, but what a view of the
> Catawba valley and Hickory! There is the tower and
> transmitter building out there. UNC used to have engineers
> out on the mountain to run things (channel 17 here was the
> control point for the entire western part of the state -
> they operated WUNF in Asheville and took care of the
> translators out there), but I'm not sure that it isn't
> remote-controlled from Charlotte now. NWS NOAA Weather Radio
> is up there now on 162.450 Mhz., along with a slew of
> two-way communication services).
>
> WUNE is licensed to Linville, but it's service area really
> is Hickory and Statesville. I live less than 10 air miles
> from the antenna (and can see its beacon on especially clear
> evenings) but I can't get much of an over-air signal. UNC
> has a translator for our area, but it has only been on the
> air since the late 1980s.
>
> I always thought this would be a great location for an FM
> wanting to reach into the upper sections of the Charlotte
> metro. They would have a killer signal in that direction.

There is actually an amateur radio repeater up there that serves Charlotte... I read about it when I was searching for some info about the site. Thanks for the directions! I'm definately going to have to go check it out.

It's interesting that you say that it serves areas toward Charlotte... I recall in that area I got some Charlotte FM's very well. I was listening to WFAE a lot when I was in that area and it was one of the few signals that seemed to hold up for a long time.

Man, like I said before.. so much to see, so little time! Even on a trip back it will be hard to cram so much in. Top of the list is to visit the WMIT transmitter and the top of Grandmother Mountain.<P ID="signature">______________

Eastern NC & Raleigh/Greensboro Board Moderator</P>

 

[wncmacs]

And a little bit on Mount Mitchell (Clingman's Peak).

This antenna farm is very impressive, but it's locked up tighter than a drum. You have to know someone to get out there. Access is from just inside the gate at the top when you enter in the State Park (the road turns to the left across from the ranger's office when you enter).

The antennas are surrounded by federal lands, but the site is owned by Billy Graham, and getting access to put a service up there is quite tricky, I hear. The site was where some of the pioneering FM efforts were conducted, and a shortwave station was resident to the mountain in the World War II era. The FM was put on the air by Winston-Salem newspaper publisher Gordon Gray in the mid 1940s and was originally licensed to Winston-Salem as it laid a city-grade signal down there! It was originally known as W41MM. Experimentation with FM from Mount Mitchell had reception reports from as far west at the Mississippi River (though I somewhat doubt that). There's a great Website about early FM broadcasting (including Mount Mitchell) here.

If you can get up there though, it's really spooky. There's over 2 MILLION watts of RF pouring off that mountain at any one time, but only two FM stations (WNCW and WMIT) and no television (which suprises me). There are only certain areas up there considered "safe" for humans to be in (under the new FCC RF guidelines).

I went up there a few years ago with the then-engineer from WNCW and my amateur radio club. He showed us around and was telling us some of the stories about how the engineers used to get stranded up on the mountains for weeks at a time in the winter and would have to have food air-dropped in to them. He also told about how engineers would cook hot dogs by putting them on a stick and holding them up in the path of a UHF RF link up there. Finally, he held up a flourescent light tube and it lit on its own accord from the RF flying around up there. It was quite entertaining to say the least.

You oughtta go up there sometime. It's a hoot!

 

[rockthisworld]

> The Mount Pisgah TX site, home of WKSF, WUNC, WLOS, and
> several others, is a good one to visit. It's a good drive,
> then a pretty easy walk. Another good site to visit,
> although it's quite a hike, is Mount Mitchell, where WMIT
> transmits from.
>
> 99.9 has been our only real FM signal. Until 96.5 came
> along, WKSF was the ONLY Asheville FM, outside of WMIT. The
> first book when 96.5 was oldies, they ate WKSF's lunch, but
> then CC did one of those million-dollar giveaways, back
> before they got in trouble for failing to announce that it
> was a national contest. Problem solved.
>
> Even growing up, I remember that EVERYONE lisened to
> "Kiss"...that's just the way it was. And, you hit the nail
> on the head when you said this is an under-radioed market.
> Since not everyone likes oldies, WKSF is the only real 12+
> audience station out there on the FM side. I still say 104.3
> should be CHR or a REAL Hot AC. Maybe then they'd give Kiss
> a run for their money. But, what's the incentive? CC owns
> both, and won't steal market-share from themselves.
>
> OTA reception for both WUNF and WLOS are awful. You think
> multipathing is an issue with FM...just try TV! I can't get
> either at home, since I'm in the shadow of the TX site. Each
> station has about 50 translators, and reception is decent
> with those if you are within a mile or so of the stick. But,
> forget clear reception off the air anywhere in the
> mountains.
>
> The array off 19-23 is Big WISE 1310. The studio is just
> underneath, as is the studios for WOXL A/F. You can't see it
> when the leaves are on the trees, but on the top of the
> building, there's an STL dish which points right to Signal
> Mountain, where WOXL-FM broadcasts from.
>
> Did you happen to notice the four-tower array right off I-40
> in Black Mountain? That's 1010 WFGW, the sister of WMIT.
> They have perfectly manacured grass and white picket fences
> around the towers...

I did indeed notice it... I meant to ask about that one too. I think all that was visible from I-40 was the towers themselves, no sight of the bases. I do remember it was was a strange looking array though... strangely positioned towers.

About "everyone listens to Kiss" though -- the business manager at my workplace is from the Haywood County area and she said that when she grew up it was Kiss FM or nothing. I mentioned to her a year or so ago that it was country now and she was VERY suprised. Why did they ever flip it to begin with?<P ID="signature">______________

Eastern NC & Raleigh/Greensboro Board Moderator</P>

 

[rockthisworld]

> And a little bit on Mount Mitchell (Clingman's Peak).
>
> This antenna farm is very impressive, but it's locked up
> tighter than a drum. You have to know someone to get out
> there. Access is from just inside the gate at the top when
> you enter in the State Park (the road turns to the left
> across from the ranger's office when you enter).
>
> The antennas are surrounded by federal lands, but the site
> is owned by Billy Graham, and getting access to put a
> service up there is quite tricky, I hear. The site was where
> some of the pioneering FM efforts were conducted, and a
> shortwave station was resident to the mountain in the World
> War II era. The FM was put on the air by Winston-Salem
> newspaper publisher Gordon Gray in the mid 1940s and was
> originally licensed to Winston-Salem as it laid a city-grade
> signal down there! It was originally known as W41MM.
> Experimentation with FM from Mount Mitchell had reception
> reports from as far west at the Mississippi River (though I
> somewhat doubt that). There's a great Website about early FM
> broadcasting (including Mount Mitchell) here.
>
> If you can get up there though, it's really spooky. There's
> over 2 MILLION watts of RF pouring off that mountain at any
> one time, but only two FM stations (WNCW and WMIT) and no
> television (which suprises me). There are only certain areas
> up there considered "safe" for humans to be in (under the
> new FCC RF guidelines).
>
> I went up there a few years ago with the then-engineer from
> WNCW and my amateur radio club. He showed us around and was
> telling us some of the stories about how the engineers used
> to get stranded up on the mountains for weeks at a time in
> the winter and would have to have food air-dropped in to
> them. He also told about how engineers would cook hot dogs
> by putting them on a stick and holding them up in the path
> of a UHF RF link up there. Finally, he held up a flourescent
> light tube and it lit on its own accord from the RF flying
> around up there. It was quite entertaining to say the least.
>
>
> You oughtta go up there sometime. It's a hoot!

I remember seeing that road but for some reason I think it was gated. Maybe it wasn't... I'm glad you told me directions to this one too. I'm gonna have to print and save this thread!

If there's only two FM stations what's all the RF from?<P ID="signature">______________

Eastern NC & Raleigh/Greensboro Board Moderator</P>

 

[thebroker]

It is a bit of a strange array. It puts out 50kW during the day, 19kW during Critical Hours, and 500 watts at night, utilizing three towers 24 hours a day. I honestly have no clue why there are four sticks there...but I'd love to know. I didn't realize it only used three until just now when I pulled the license info.

I'm not sure the reason behind flipping to country, but I remember the overwhelmingly positive reaction when they did. (At least where I lived...Haywood County)

 

[wncmacs]

>
> If there's only two FM stations what's all the RF from?
>

Just about every state and federal agency has radio facilities on the mountain, along with paging, two-way business radio and other assorted services. WMIT's transmitter power is "only" 36,000 watts from this site. I think WNCW's is about 10-15 KW.

There's just a ton of services that use Mitchell for relays...including North Carolina's Emergency Management microwave system linking Raleigh with the far west.

 

[wncmacs]

> It is a bit of a strange array. It puts out 50kW during the
> day, 19kW during Critical Hours, and 500 watts at night,
> utilizing three towers 24 hours a day. I honestly have no
> clue why there are four sticks there...but I'd love to know.
> I didn't realize it only used three until just now when I
> pulled the license info.
>
> I'm not sure the reason behind flipping to country, but I
> remember the overwhelmingly positive reaction when they did.
> (At least where I lived...Haywood County)
>
I think the fourth tower is used to introduce the "null" into the signal to the north to protect the New York station on 1010. It isn't energized at all.

Also, WFGW was a daytimer only until the 1990s. I'd love to know what persuaded Blue Ridge Broadcasting to sink the money into it for the 500 watt nighttime operation.

 

[rockthisworld]

> >
> > If there's only two FM stations what's all the RF from?
> >
>
> Just about every state and federal agency has radio
> facilities on the mountain, along with paging, two-way
> business radio and other assorted services. WMIT's
> transmitter power is "only" 36,000 watts from this site. I
> think WNCW's is about 10-15 KW.
>
> There's just a ton of services that use Mitchell for
> relays...including North Carolina's Emergency Management
> microwave system linking Raleigh with the far west.

Makes sense. I think Verizon Wireless may have something up there too, because when I was up there it was the one place I could make digital phone calls, and I had a full signal. Unfortunately U.S. Cellular (my carrier, and the other cellular carrier in that region) didn't have anything so I was roaming.

Man, that's a lot of RF off of what looks like 3 or 4 towers.<P ID="signature">______________

Eastern NC & Raleigh/Greensboro Board Moderator</P>

 

[eacalhoun]

Actually, at least as of a about 2 years ago, there is a warm-bodied engineer who holds "office hours" at the WUNE site. His name is Bert, assuming he's still working there. I visited him and he gave me a great tour. In fact, if you look up WUNE-TV in the Newland phone directory, there's the TX site's number.

 

[Timothy]

> - WNCW! I already miss it!!!!!

There is more triple A on the way in ENC.

A little more, on a daily basis, and maybe more on weekends.

 

[rockthisworld]

> There is more triple A on the way in ENC.
>
> A little more, on a daily basis, and maybe more on weekends.

Via one of your stations or is something new starting up?

Or would you have to kill me if you told me? <P ID="signature">______________

Eastern NC & Raleigh/Greensboro Board Moderator</P>

 

[tk]

> The antennas are surrounded by federal lands, but the site
> is owned by Billy Graham, and getting access to put a
> service up there is quite tricky, I hear. The site was where
> some of the pioneering FM efforts were conducted, and a
> shortwave station was resident to the mountain in the World
> War II era. The FM was put on the air by Winston-Salem
> newspaper publisher Gordon Gray in the mid 1940s and was
> originally licensed to Winston-Salem as it laid a city-grade
> signal down there! It was originally known as W41MM.
> Experimentation with FM from Mount Mitchell had reception
> reports from as far west at the Mississippi River (though I
> somewhat doubt that). There's a great Website about early FM
> broadcasting (including Mount Mitchell) here.

You heard right...350,000 watts at one time early on and it was heard as far west as Arkansas...