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Someone is selling...

It will be interesting to see who ends up buying the stations. Whether it will be an existing operator with other holdings in the area (Pembrook Pines certainly comes to mind here), or, a new company entirely.

It's been a while since I've heard WDNY. While most of their music is off the bird, they still have some decent local programming elements. HS sports, local newscasts (complete with funeral announcements), and I think the FM is live and local during morning and afternoon drive. Or, at least, it was last time I heard it.
 
JakeLongwell said:
It will be interesting to see who ends up buying the stations. Whether it will be an existing operator with other holdings in the area (Pembrook Pines certainly comes to mind here), or, a new company entirely.

It's been a while since I've heard WDNY. While most of their music is off the bird, they still have some decent local programming elements. HS sports, local newscasts (complete with funeral announcements), and I think the FM is live and local during morning and afternoon drive. Or, at least, it was last time I heard it.
Click to expand...

Heck, for all we know, these stations could end up in the hands of the same people who currently own 101.7FM!
I hope I'm wrong about that though.
 
Radio Ray - confusion? It's VERY well spelled out here on the thread -

Robert Craig Savage's properties in some little town outside of Rochester - (damn I'm dating myself to recall his on-air handle as RCS --talk about EXCELLENT on-air marketing back in the heyday!!) NOT TRUE - just having some fun!

Anyway...check back a page or two...that's where you'll find it!!

Thanks for checking in to the Buffalo-Niagara Radio Market boards. This market is tough, and spoon feeding is not an option (believe me, I know!!) The info you're seeking is here...

That's all

PS- I'm not a bad guy, but when I have to trace threads...I get antsy too!!
 
Well I dont think its well spelled out at all. Lots of speculation of various possibilities.

Heck, I am just curious. No big deal.
 
I'm too nice a guy ;D
Here you go:

It's the Dansville properties. (WDNY and whatever)

Slap that bid in fast...there are many on this board chomping at the bit to own their thing, and do their thing (against Savage's advisement ;D)

That's all
 
For the Canadian folk lurking here, don't forget that although it's illegal for Canadians to OWN an American station, there is no law preventing you from RENTING one! :D
 
For the Canadian folk lurking here, don't forget that although it's illegal for Canadians to OWN an American station, there is no law preventing you from RENTING one!
Click to expand...

ROFL...YEZ...you know better. Where there is a will..there is a way!!!... Even our Canadian neighbors would have a way around, if they dig deep enough!!! ;D
 
This offering sheds some light on how the marketplace for small market stations has changed over the years.

I actually kicked the tires when the WDNY combo was put up for sale at a $550,000 asking price (IIRC) more than 20 years ago, at a time I was involved in a family business outside the broadcasting realm and planning on re-entering the radio business as either an on-air guy or a behind-the-scenes owner/manager. Did a little research, took a drive south from Rochester, listened to the station, and determined the station's financial numbers in the broker's prospectus made the asking price look like a pretty reasonable value. I figured I might be able to negotiate a little more favorable price and put the financing together, and called the broker for the deal (Dick Koczako if memory serves) to sound him out about making a bid. But he told me someone else had beaten me to it just that morning and it was off the market. The owner had been offered full asking price in cash, was satisfied with the offer, and committed to take it. Don't remember who the successful buyer was (didn't ask) and whether he or she still has the stations and has them on the block now, or sold them to another owner in the intervening years.

Didn't find another property that looked both promising and affordable at that time (in the late 1980s), so I went back on the air in the gig I'm still holding down now figuring ownership wasn't going to happen. That's probably just as well. Assuming $475,000 is a good asking price for WDNY AM/FM today, that's a good $75,000 LESS than it fetched in the late 1980s.

I don't think that's unusual...after a big upward spike in the 90s as big conglomerates were overpaying for properties in markets big and small, radio station selling prices have clearly fallen back to earth. That doesn't mean you can't build value in a station today. IF you are a buyer who is patient and plans to invest both some capital and a lot of time in making the most of the station you buy, you will still build equity and market value for your property like any well-run profitable business in any field. But these days the one truly reliable way to build value for a station, is to run it with quality and not on the cheap. WDNY AM/FM, like most stations in small markets, will need a hands-on owner/manager with regional roots to get the best value out of it.
 
Good take, Bob. That "radio as an investment" thing (much like "real estate as an investment") seems to have hit some choppy water as of late and isn't going as well as some had hoped. Of course, if the water gets too rough for a buyer, the bankruptcy route is an option and the court can wipe out 60% of the debt while the shareholders get boned and the lenders take over the operation. But I digress.

Small market operators who "buy, hold, and serve" used to be able to make a comfortable living with sweat equity, good programming and street smarts. It's not impossible even today (witness one of our favorite posters here), but it's a tougher grind, no matter how much we might love the game and how good we may be. After a certain age the thought of selling and retiring to Del Boca Vista very likely becomes stronger every year. Even if one believes in the "buy, hold and serve" philosophy, buyers need an exit strategy. If you were the seller, would you want to hold the note for the buyer? The interest and monthly payments might be nice, but what if the buyer defaults? You're back in radio again, shopping the station.
 
If memory serves me......
I worked with a guy at WBEE in the late 80's who was the manager of WDNY. He, also owned an ice cream stand/minature golf course in Dansville. I think his name was Mark Miller (radio name only?). I believe he bought the stations in the time period Bob 1370 was talking about. We were friendly and talked a lot on cross shifts. He was a really interesting guy. WDNY am/fm sounded great at the time. Very well programed. I haven't heard the station in several years and don't know if he still owns them.
 
As far as I know, Mr. Miller still owns the stations. He is also the morning host on both AM and FM as they simulcast during that time.

WDNY was indeed very well programmed "back in the day". I recall they had a sort of full service AC format that was live and local from 6a-7p, then they ran Bruce Williams' TalkNet from 7-11p. Overnights, they ran Larry King and whatever else came down the Mutual network feed during the wea hours.

In 1991, things changed. At first, the live/local programming continued during the day. At 7p, they split AM and FM (the FM calls were WACZ at that time). The AM carried TalkNet, while the local programming was extended on FM thru 11p. The Mutual programming was dropped, and both stations signed off at 11 (I recall the jock who signed the stations off would always play "Sounds of Silence" before running the sign off cart).

This setup was in place for a couple of months. Then, in the spring of that year, the satellite service was implamented. It was the AC service from Westwood One/Unistar, I think. I took a tour of the station around that time, and most of the former jocks were still kept on as board ops for the new service. Of course, they would eventually be replaced by out right automation.

In the mid 90s, they split the stations for most of the day, save for morning drive. The AM went with country, FM stayed the same. The country gave way to standards a couple years later. I later found out one of the reasons for this was the problems they had receiving the satellite signal for the country format.

As I stated earlier, I am happy there are still some local elements in the programming. However, I hope the new owner will not only retain those local elements, but perhaps expand on them. Of course, one has to be realistic, though.

It will be interesting to see what becomes of the AM signal. It's no secret that the standards format, such as it is these days, is dying. I predict that will almost certainly give way to some form of spoken word programming. (ESPN 1400, anyone?)
 
Bob1370 said:
Didn't find another property that looked both promising and affordable at that time (in the late 1980s), so I went back on the air in the gig I'm still holding down now figuring ownership wasn't going to happen. That's probably just as well. Assuming $475,000 is a good asking price for WDNY AM/FM today, that's a good $75,000 LESS than it fetched in the late 1980s.
Click to expand...
Sometimes things work out for the best. Bet you're glad you didn't get a $75 thousand haircut.
 
Take a look around - it's 2010, and Dansville-Wayland-Cohocton, primary communities in the duo's service area, have about 19 potential advertisers left. Foster-Wheeler Corporation is gone. Alston in Hornell has laid off 70% of its workforce. Neither AM nor FM are upgradeable thanks to adjacents in Buffalo and Rochester.
What you see is all you'll ever get.

Make that a $250,000 haircut..... :-\
 
Bob, if memory serves...when Dave Mance sold WDNY (then just an AM and a pending FM app) around 1990 or so, the selling price was $400,000. I think that's the transaction to which you refer.
 
"Bob, if memory serves...when Dave Mance sold WDNY (then just an AM and a pending FM app) around 1990 or so, the selling price was $400,000. I think that's the transaction to which you refer."

I may be getting a little forgetful in my old age (it's been known to happen)...but I think my own brief flirtation with the property was several years earlier than 1990---it'd be the 1986-87 time frame since I remember when I was looking at small market stations I was still in the family business and hadn't yet gone back on the air (which I finally did in March of '88 in Rochester). So this was probably a previous sale by whoever originally built the place. Dave Mance, who IIRC is also a member of the WAXC alumni association and has been a successful owner in a number of upstate markets, was probably the guy who beat everyone out for it back then. Whether he paid a lot less for it than Koczako said (quite likely), or took a loss when he sold it a few years later, who knows?

Either way, it looks like stations in small markets haven't exactly been growth investments in the last 20 years, although a lot of that depends on the economy of the particular market you're in, and (even more importantly) how much time, effort and capital you've put into it. Stations that are well-run by an on-the-scene owner/operator covering suburban areas near a larger market are still strong prospects.
 
Well, the owner previous to Dave Mance was a Kimble or perhaps several of them. The station started out as a 500-watt daytimer on 1600 and then measurements were taken to establish a no-overlap case vs. WYSL (Buffalo iteration) in the early to mid 80s, enabling the move to 1400 and unlimited-hours operation.

It's hard to imagine Dave paying $500K-ish and then spinning it at a loss five years later. But stranger things have happened.

What comes to mind: remember the sale of WBTA-WBTF in the 80s for over a mil? :eek:
 
Dave Mance also worked at WBBF IIRC. Now comes word that Waller Sutton-WS2K has sold the former Route 81 stations in Elmira-Corning for $1.425 million; three FMs with fairly decent coverage and three AMs in a larger market, for roughly three times the asking price of Dansville. Don't know the terms, but comparatively speaking, the E-C deal seems to make more sense given the number of ears and revenue in the E-C market. Don't get me wrong, E-C has an abundance of signals and it won't be a walk in the park... I'm just sayin'.
 
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