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Something Brewing? Or VT Run Amok?

I notice that the Brew has had some WLZT air talent on today.  E.g., as I post this at 9:30 pm, Heather is on both stations.

Does this suggest something may be brewing re formats and/or layoffs?  Or just extra voicetracking to cover for, e.g., vacationing talent?  I'd bet on the latter. 

Regardless, I don't recall ever hearing the same jock doing a shift simultaneously on two different stations in the same market.
 
Nu_Roo_2 said:
I notice that the Brew has had some WLZT air talent on today. E.g., as I post this at 9:30 pm, Heather is on both stations.

Does this suggest something may be brewing re formats and/or layoffs? Or just extra voicetracking to cover for, e.g., vacationing talent? I'd bet on the latter.

Regardless, I don't recall ever hearing the same jock doing a shift simultaneously on two different stations in the same market.

They are planning on moving WTVN to 93.3 so they are getting people used to hearing people from WLZT like Heather and Joel Riley on the Brew because when they move WTVN to FM people will already be used to the new people. ;D
 
This has been going on for sometime now.Actually Heather Williams is on WCOL, TheBrew and 99.3!
There have been some changes since Michael McCoy departed to Detroit.
 
ThomasBlixa said:
This has been going on for sometime now.Actually Heather Williams is on WCOL, TheBrew and 99.3!
There have been some changes since Michael McCoy departed to Detroit.

Whoa, you just let some big news slip out -- first I've heard about 99.3!

Seriously, thanks for clearing that up. I had thought that having the same air talent on two different music stations in the same shift was avoided, but I guess it's just a coincidence that I haven't noticed past occurrences.
 
columbus radio fan said:
They are planning on moving WTVN to 93.3 so they are getting people used to hearing people from WLZT like Heather and Joel Riley on the Brew because when they move WTVN to FM people will already be used to the new people. ;D

Seriously, the possibility of a TVN-to-93.3 switch was one of the first things that ran through my head. Not saying that will never occur, but based on ThomasBlixa's response there was a different reason for what I noticed.

Read an interesting science article in the Dispatch recently about how the human's mind tends to seek patterns. Thus a tendency to want to connect the dots and look for perceived conspiracies. Certainly would apply to radio moves, where sometimes it turns out to be reality instead of just perception.
 
Nu_Roo_2 said:
Seriously, the possibility of a TVN-to-93.3 switch was one of the first things that ran through my head. Not saying that will never occur, but based on ThomasBlixa's response there was a different reason for what I noticed.

Let's get real, people!

It's one thing to abandon a perpetually floundering AM station with a bad signal like WBNS, and something completely different to abandon a successful AM station with a strong signal. You have to look at this like businessmen and consider the plusses and minuses. I'm sure WTVN makes some pretty good coin and is always ranked one of the Top-3 or Top-5 stations in the market. The only reason to abandon the AM dial would be if you can improve upon that.

Let's say they did abandon the AM signal. Let's look at the plusses ... as in how would you make the most additional profit. Would the station make any more money going to FM? Hard to see how when it is already a Top-3 station. Now look at the minuses ... what would you lose? Is whatever you replace WTVN with going to make as much money as it currently is? Probably not. Is the AM replacement going to make more money than what WLZT currently is? Probably not.

In other words, from the standpoint of overall profitability it sounds like it wouldn't be the smartest move to me ... but then again, what do I know?

Oh and I might add that the number one and number two stations in Cincinnati are ... WLW-AM and WKRC-AM!!! Just like the old days!!!

I will tell you what I think would be two good ideas, though (again, what do I know) 1) Since WTVN is weak to the south, they should get their signal either on 107.1 (which has always been kind of a waste, anyway) or on that 92.7 translator in Chillicothe that rebroadcasts WLZT; or 2) Maybe go to kind of a combo like what you have in Cincinnati where WLZT has local talk and plays the role of WLW; and WTVN plays the role of WKRC with some local shows but mostly syndicated fare (which it kind of already does.)
 
inquisitor said:
Nu_Roo_2 said:
Seriously, the possibility of a TVN-to-93.3 switch was one of the first things that ran through my head.  Not saying that will never occur, but based on ThomasBlixa's response there was a different reason for what I noticed.

Let's get real, people!

It's one thing to abandon a perpetually floundering AM station with a bad signal like WBNS, and something completely different to abandon a successful AM station with a strong signal.  You have to look at this like businessmen and consider the plusses and minuses.  I'm sure WTVN makes some pretty good coin and is always ranked one of the Top-3 or Top-5 stations in the market.  The only reason to abandon the AM dial would be if you can improve upon that. 

Let's say they did abandon the AM signal.  Let's look at the plusses ... as in how would you make the most additional profit.  Would the station make any more money going to FM?  Hard to see how when it is already a Top-3 station.  Now look at the minuses ... what would you lose?  Is whatever you replace WTVN with going to make as much money as it currently is?  Probably not.  Is the AM replacement going to make more money than what WLZT currently is?  Probably not. 

In other words, from the standpoint of overall profitability it sounds like it wouldn't be the smartest move to me ... but then again, what do I know?

Oh and I might add that the number one and number two stations in Cincinnati are ...  WLW-AM and WKRC-AM!!!  Just like the old days!!!

I will tell you what I think would be two good ideas, though (again, what do I know)  1) Since WTVN is weak to the south, they should get their signal either on 107.1 (which has always been kind of a waste, anyway) or on that 92.7 translator in Chillicothe that rebroadcasts WLZT;  or 2) Maybe go to kind of a combo like what you have in Cincinnati where WLZT has local talk and plays the role of WLW; and WTVN plays the role of WKRC with some local shows but mostly syndicated fare (which it kind of already does.)

Just for the record, I definitely was NOT endorsing such a move.  But if CC did do that it would be consistent with with their local mantra of "format duplication rulez."  But this time it would be a variant where they were literally duplicating one of their own (and to some extent 97.1), instead of cozying up next to a personally-disliked competitor's format to enforce local CC management's radio mafiaso mentality ("oppose my move-in at your own-risk, sucka!").  At least there are no horse heads involved.
 
Ohio radio man said:
WTVN will be on both 610 and 93.3 by the end of 2010. Done deal.

WTVN will, in my opinion, simulcast on 93.3 FM IF and when they eventually land on the FM band. Most people here will agree it's WHEN
and not IF they will land on FM. One of the reasons is the lack of coverage the WTVN night signal has to the Southeast and South of Columbus. Here is the coverage area of the WTVN nighttime site:
http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=WTVN&service=AM&status=L&hours=N

Why can't the move to FM happen before 2010? Corby is going to have a important announcement on his show this Friday afternoon. I think he will
announce the OSU tailgate party, Hineygate moving to a new location. Don't expect him to say WTVN is moving over to the FM band on Friday.
 
gabigley1 said:
WTVN will, in my opinion, simulcast on 93.3 FM IF and when they eventually land on the FM band. Most people here will agree it's WHEN
and not IF they will land on FM. One of the reasons is the lack of coverage the WTVN night signal has to the Southeast and South of Columbus. Here is the coverage area of the WTVN nighttime site:
http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=WTVN&service=AM&status=L&hours=N

This would only be about signal if it had a detrimental effect on ratings and profits and based on the programming they have on at night, it doesn't appear the night time audience is that lucrative anyway. (They would still have live news, Sterling, Steve Cannon if it was). More importantly, WTVN has a format that works on AM and gets good ratings. If they were to abandon WTVN, do you know how difficult it would be to find a replacement that could get equal or better ratings?

The world is littered with throwaway 5-kw AM's. Why would they destroy something that's a valuable asset? Why would they turn WTVN into another WYTS? It would be like taking your Upper Arlington house and turning it into a rental property for people on welfare, just because you want to move to New Albany. The question is, how does this translate to higher profits? How does the cluster make more money by trashing its AM station?

You still haven't made a business case for this.
 
I think it would make sense for WTVN to simulcast on both 610 AM and 93.3 FM. The AM has that incredible daytime signal, but we all know how their night time signal sucks expecially to the South, East, and West (expecially during the winter months). Simulcasting on 93.3 will take care of that nighttime problem since 93.3 is on the same tower as WTVN daytime tower at 32kW, and you can still get the station well south of Chillicothe! Also being on FM takes care of the penetration problem that AM has into steel buildings, and don't forget a lot of .mp3 players now have FM receivers built into them. There's a lot of potential listeners that are not served now because they can't receive AM on their desk radios and .mp3 players. They should move what is now on 93.3 over to 105.7 (with that downtown Columbus stick), and move the Brew to 106.7 since we all know 106.7 isn't doing well ratings wise.

Here's 93.3 predicted coverage from the WTVN daytime tower. That's one hell of a good signal and coverage area that WTVN does not have south of Columbus at night!
http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=WLZT&service=FM&status=C&hours=U
 
That's the deal. A lot of cell phones/MP3 players do not have AM radios in them. I don't know a whole lot of people buying radios anymore. Sadly, radios have become the "by the way" item. Everything either is older with a CD player or has an IPod/MP3 dock. The people right now who are TVN listeners had an AM experience. My generation doesn't. I will never forget when I was in Dayton and explaining to someone they could get the Browns play by play on 980. She was looking all over the FM dial for 980. She was about 22. That says it all right there. It's a move for the future.
 
Ohio radio man said:
That's the deal. A lot of cell phones/MP3 players do not have AM radios in them. I don't know a whole lot of people buying radios anymore. Sadly, radios have become the "by the way" item. Everything either is older with a CD player or has an IPod/MP3 dock. The people right now who are TVN listeners had an AM experience. My generation doesn't. I will never forget when I was in Dayton and explaining to someone they could get the Browns play by play on 980. She was looking all over the FM dial for 980. She was about 22. That says it all right there. It's a move for the future.

There was an article in the Dispatch that backs that up. it showed that WTVN does better as the audience gets older for example 18 - 34 they place 7th over all, and 25 - 54 they were 4th. even thought if you look at the worthless 12+ numbers they come in at Number 1, if they are looking at future revenue they will go to FM like most other markets are doing, When WIBC in Indianapolis moved to FM they saw a nice increase in ratings over their AM numbers. they now use the AM for Sports.

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/life/stories/2009/08/03/ARB_SPRING.ART_ART_08-03-09_D6_E2EL1SV.html?sid=101
 
610 WTVN has for decades enjoyed tremendous brand identity in the Columbus Market. This station has built a solid foundation as the market leader, and station listeners instantly turn to for breaking news, weather and sports.

Personally, I am not convinced a simulcast is the winning solution.
 
AM can be seen as a dying broadcast spectrum. It wouldn't surprise me that WTVN is moving to the FM band. CC broadcasting WTVN on the 93.3 HD2 FM. I listen to WLZT HD2 FM when I want to hear WTVN.
 
JJWALKER said:
610 WTVN has for decades enjoyed tremendous brand identity in the Columbus Market. This station has built a solid foundation as the market leader, and station listeners instantly turn to for breaking news, weather and sports.

Personally, I am not convinced a simulcast is the winning solution.

Yes they have created great brand identity. They are one of the few AM stations that is not 50kw and with a severe directional that is still a consistant top 5 ratings giant. Most cities with only a 5kw and directional at night signal have dropped to the mid pack or lower. Yet TVN remains strong.

I still believe they will show up on FM in the future. Like IBC did in Indy.

Un
 
inquisitor said:
Nu_Roo_2 said:
Seriously, the possibility of a TVN-to-93.3 switch was one of the first things that ran through my head. Not saying that will never occur, but based on ThomasBlixa's response there was a different reason for what I noticed.

Let's get real, people!

It's one thing to abandon a perpetually floundering AM station with a bad signal like WBNS, and something completely different to abandon a successful AM station with a strong signal. You have to look at this like businessmen and consider the plusses and minuses. I'm sure WTVN makes some pretty good coin and is always ranked one of the Top-3 or Top-5 stations in the market. The only reason to abandon the AM dial would be if you can improve upon that.

Let's say they did abandon the AM signal. Let's look at the plusses ... as in how would you make the most additional profit. Would the station make any more money going to FM? Hard to see how when it is already a Top-3 station. Now look at the minuses ... what would you lose? Is whatever you replace WTVN with going to make as much money as it currently is? Probably not. Is the AM replacement going to make more money than what WLZT currently is? Probably not.

In other words, from the standpoint of overall profitability it sounds like it wouldn't be the smartest move to me ... but then again, what do I know?

Oh and I might add that the number one and number two stations in Cincinnati are ... WLW-AM and WKRC-AM!!! Just like the old days!!!

I will tell you what I think would be two good ideas, though (again, what do I know) 1) Since WTVN is weak to the south, they should get their signal either on 107.1 (which has always been kind of a waste, anyway) or on that 92.7 translator in Chillicothe that rebroadcasts WLZT; or 2) Maybe go to kind of a combo like what you have in Cincinnati where WLZT has local talk and plays the role of WLW; and WTVN plays the role of WKRC with some local shows but mostly syndicated fare (which it kind of already does.)

I don't have a clue what they might considering, if they're considering it, but look at facts from about 60 miles down the road.

WHIO-AM was doing about a 6 share average 12 plus in Dayton with newstalk as a standalone...it would hit an 8 share on rating "peaks". One area the station's signal was weak was to the north of Dayton and over toward Springfield. Upon adding the "simulcast" from 95.7 (whose tower is in Southern Shelby County), within a year and a half, the station went from 6's to 10's 12 plus. The FM demos got a bit younger, too which is always a plus.

OK, look at WTVN. They are a dominant station, no argument there. They're lucky, because they enjoy a low-on-the-band frequency at 610. The downside? They're on AM...whose audience gets older every year. Today, few if any people under 40 listen to AM for any reason. 93-3 is south of town, where 'TVN has a null. Consider the possibilities if a simulcast would be done. It's possible the null would be filled. The 7 share 12 plus figure could potentially become a 9 or perhaps even a 10. The demos might end up being better 25-54, instead of somewhat top heavy 35 plus.

Put on your station manager hat here: If you could put another 2-3 share points on your ratings 12 plus, would it be worth it?

Oh...BTW: WKRC is a top 5 station...but not number 2 in Cincy. They have, however, peaked to #2 on occasional books.

The problem with AM is the problem with every AM in America big or small. The audience is slowly dying. It won't affect the big stations for a while. But no one is replacing the listeners who die off. When you add in FM's superior sound quality, moving newstalk to FM, while leaving the AM station to get whatever listeners it can makes dollars and sense.
 
One Who Knows said:
inquisitor said:
Nu_Roo_2 said:
Seriously, the possibility of a TVN-to-93.3 switch was one of the first things that ran through my head. Not saying that will never occur, but based on ThomasBlixa's response there was a different reason for what I noticed.

Let's get real, people!

It's one thing to abandon a perpetually floundering AM station with a bad signal like WBNS, and something completely different to abandon a successful AM station with a strong signal. You have to look at this like businessmen and consider the plusses and minuses. I'm sure WTVN makes some pretty good coin and is always ranked one of the Top-3 or Top-5 stations in the market. The only reason to abandon the AM dial would be if you can improve upon that.

Let's say they did abandon the AM signal. Let's look at the plusses ... as in how would you make the most additional profit. Would the station make any more money going to FM? Hard to see how when it is already a Top-3 station. Now look at the minuses ... what would you lose? Is whatever you replace WTVN with going to make as much money as it currently is? Probably not. Is the AM replacement going to make more money than what WLZT currently is? Probably not.

In other words, from the standpoint of overall profitability it sounds like it wouldn't be the smartest move to me ... but then again, what do I know?

Oh and I might add that the number one and number two stations in Cincinnati are ... WLW-AM and WKRC-AM!!! Just like the old days!!!

I will tell you what I think would be two good ideas, though (again, what do I know) 1) Since WTVN is weak to the south, they should get their signal either on 107.1 (which has always been kind of a waste, anyway) or on that 92.7 translator in Chillicothe that rebroadcasts WLZT; or 2) Maybe go to kind of a combo like what you have in Cincinnati where WLZT has local talk and plays the role of WLW; and WTVN plays the role of WKRC with some local shows but mostly syndicated fare (which it kind of already does.)

I don't have a clue what they might considering, if they're considering it, but look at facts from about 60 miles down the road.

WHIO-AM was doing about a 6 share average 12 plus in Dayton with newstalk as a standalone...it would hit an 8 share on rating "peaks". One area the station's signal was weak was to the north of Dayton and over toward Springfield. Upon adding the "simulcast" from 95.7 (whose tower is in Southern Shelby County), within a year and a half, the station went from 6's to 10's 12 plus. The FM demos got a bit younger, too which is always a plus.

OK, look at WTVN. They are a dominant station, no argument there. They're lucky, because they enjoy a low-on-the-band frequency at 610. The downside? They're on AM...whose audience gets older every year. Today, few if any people under 40 listen to AM for any reason. 93-3 is south of town, where 'TVN has a null. Consider the possibilities if a simulcast would be done. It's possible the null would be filled. The 7 share 12 plus figure could potentially become a 9 or perhaps even a 10. The demos might end up being better 25-54, instead of somewhat top heavy 35 plus.

Put on your station manager hat here: If you could put another 2-3 share points on your ratings 12 plus, would it be worth it?

Oh...BTW: WKRC is a top 5 station...but not number 2 in Cincy. They have, however, peaked to #2 on occasional books.

The problem with AM is the problem with every AM in America big or small. The audience is slowly dying. It won't affect the big stations for a while. But no one is replacing the listeners who die off. When you add in FM's superior sound quality, moving newstalk to FM, while leaving the AM station to get whatever listeners it can makes dollars and sense.

Even though some talk stations are seeing some younger demos after shifting to FM, Limbaugh and friends are now well into the AARP zone age-wise. Wouldn't a prompt infusion of younger blowhards be necessary to keep the younger-demo momentum going? Other than, say, Mancow, I don't see much of that happening.
 
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