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Song compression/processing question

F

Frank72

Guest
This is now the 2nd time we've encountered this problem and with the same artist/same album. When we play Taylor Swift's new single "22" on the air, the processor is doing something funky with the dynamics in the chorus. It's pushing down the high end during the peaks of the song. I've heard the song come out the same way on other stations while I've heard other stations have never had this problem. It's obviously processor/setting related. We're on Omnia 6.Thoughts? This also happened with "We Are Never.." but I found a not nearly as compressed version that worked.
 
I hear some high pitch in track in refrain... might be Omnia/preset recognize that as very loud one.
It's around 15-16kHz
 
Instead of adjusting preset/settings, what would be the simplest thing to reduce in a program such as Adobe Audition?
 
Is the source material a hypercompressed recording? 99% of hypercompressed source material can be blamed.

R
 
Frank72 said:
Instead of adjusting preset/settings, what would be the simplest thing to reduce in a program such as Adobe Audition?
Click to expand...

Well, if there's ANY small section of the recording where that 15-16 khz can be sampled relatively free of other sounds,
this can be used in most audio software to use in a subtractive method, where ONLY that will be stripped from the recording.

I have done the same thing with hiss, whines, hum, etc.

Once the offending tone is removed, you may find the processing works as you would expect.
 
I just routed this song to a production room using a new AOIP system, and then out to an aux processing rack. I then routed the output of an aux Omnia 11 to the consoles audition bus. Then I A+B'd the program and audition channels. This song is processed to begin with, and already has the symptoms the OP is talking about. It has the classic boom-boom and pop-pop sound of a top forty produced song. It has the classic top-forty boom-boom through a sound system with sub-woofers, but also has an upper mid-bass, lower midrange pop-pop sound to excite smaller speakers.

This song would behave much differently in a processor that applies pre-emphasis before vs. after multi-band limiting. This may be why the OP is hearing other stations sound different. The Omnia 11 sounds very consistent with the original source, but much louder. However, it deals with pre-processed music much differently than the Omnia 6. There is only so much energy you can push into final clipping before other bands fall apart, including the high end. This is a classic symptom and failure of pre-processed music that is processed again by radio.

Oh, I forgot to mention this song sucks! ;D Taylor Swift is a train wreck waiting to happen. People are starting to hate her, even the young kids like my 11 year old son.
 
Fair enough on Taylor! Nice to see some more guitar/singer-songwriter tracks on CHR radio. I'm not an engineer here so if anybody can point to the easy way to do this in Audition, that would be great!
 
I just routed this song to a production room using a new AOIP system, and then out to an aux processing rack. I then routed the output of an aux Omnia 11 to the consoles audition bus.
Click to expand...

Hahaha an "aux Omnia.11"... THAT must be nice to have!! All of mine are tied up on the air :-\

It would be interesting to run that through a 9 and see how the undo/declipper does with it. If I have time to swap the client station with the 9 over to the backup Optimud for a few minutes, I'll try that out tomorrow. Otherwise I don't think they'll be too pleased if T-Swift shows up on the air!

Do you have anything in front of the 6, like a Compellor or other "less intelligent" AGC?

Also, FM-Engineer is right. The 11 is a whole different beast than the 6 in regards to hyper compressed material. Part of the development of the 11 was to deal with that crap. I have one on a AAA and it beautifully deals with going from a CSN song from 1969 to something new that came in balls to the wall.
 
I used the generic high pass filter on Audition and by the looks of the wav now, it will likely work. Thanks for your help guys!
 
Frank72 said:
I used the generic high pass filter on Audition and by the looks of the wav now, it will likely work. Thanks for your help guys!
Click to expand...

I should think a generic low pass filter would be what the doctor ordered rather than a high pass filter..........
 
Kmagrill said:
Frank72 said:
I used the generic high pass filter on Audition and by the looks of the wav now, it will likely work. Thanks for your help guys!
Click to expand...

Agreed. A HPF removes the lows...

R

I should think a generic low pass filter would be what the doctor ordered rather than a high pass filter..........
Click to expand...
 
WNTIRadio said:
I just routed this song to a production room using a new AOIP system, and then out to an aux processing rack. I then routed the output of an aux Omnia 11 to the consoles audition bus.
Click to expand...

Hahaha an "aux Omnia.11"... THAT must be nice to have!! All of mine are tied up on the air :-\

It would be interesting to run that through a 9 and see how the undo/declipper does with it. If I have time to swap the client station with the 9 over to the backup Optimud for a few minutes, I'll try that out tomorrow. Otherwise I don't think they'll be too pleased if T-Swift shows up on the air!

Do you have anything in front of the 6, like a Compellor or other "less intelligent" AGC?

Also, FM-Engineer is right. The 11 is a whole different beast than the 6 in regards to hyper compressed material. Part of the development of the 11 was to deal with that crap. I have one on a AAA and it beautifully deals with going from a CSN song from 1969 to something new that came in balls to the wall.
Click to expand...

Yea, it is nice to have aux systems. ;D From the processors on there is two of everything. It is not uncommon in some markets, and this is a new facility. Most likely the aux will get replaced by an Omnia 1, and the aux 11 will go to another station in the company. The 11 is the "smartest" processor out there. Downright amazing!
 
Goran Tomas said:
The 11 has some tricks inside specifically to deal with songs like this ;)


Regards,
Goran Tomas
Click to expand...

Oh you engineering types..... Just sit there and tease about what you know and what you won't share. Reminds me of my grandmother who made the most delicious donuts. She went to the grave not sharing the secret ingredient that made them so light, fluffy and heavenly. Of course she wound up in hell so everything worked out in the end.
 
I've got two of things in most places, but 9 times out of 10 it's not matched new stuff like a pair of 11's.

It's usually the 11 (or 9, or 8600) and ye olde processor, along with ye olde transmittere.
 
WNTIRadio said:
It's usually the 11 (or 9, or 8600) and ye olde processor, along with ye olde transmittere.
Click to expand...

Ahhhh... but that's where the right combination of components will generate the delicate nuance that becomes the signature sound of your station! ;D

Consider an old 10kW Collins, with a shorted turn in its mod transformer, which is sitting on top of 4x4s in the transformer cage. Just before proof time, toss in a couple of new 892Rs in the mods and maybe a new stylus in the control room, tweak up the Volumax (the old version) and toss on an old country song... nice!

Oh, wait..... none of that stuff around anymore. :'(
 
This song has that age-old intermittent 20 kHz tone during the chorus. Load it up in Audition, put a brickwall filter @ 17.5 kHz, and the problem will be gone.

Same issue with "We Are Never Getting Back Together", and Britney Spears "I Wanna Go".

It looks like they are using some kind of keyboard in these songs during the Chorus that is putting out a VERY STRONG 20 kHz tone.

:mad:

-C
 
Mastering engineers know perfectly well what they are doing. They are responding to the label's desire to make everything sound as loud as terrestrial radio.

R
 
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